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King Kohli vs Sir Viv in ODIs


FischerTal

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6 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Of course he faced his own bowling . Holding, Roberts, Marshall, Daniels, Clarke etc . He played over 500 first class games in West Indies and England. 

90mph+ in first class games is exactly the same 90mph as test matches 

he must have faced one at a time but not all four played together, dealing four of them together is what was most difficult thing. there was no respite or let up at any point.

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7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

he must have faced one at a time but not all four played together, dealing four of them together is what was most difficult thing. there was no respite or let up at any point.

You face one ball one bowler at a time 

Everyone of those fast bowlers have hit  heads when bowling separately or in two's

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1 minute ago, Tattieboy said:

You face one ball one bowler at a time 

Everyone of those fast bowlers have hit  heads when bowling separately or in two's

But the pressure is built by both ends, you make mistakes when you are under constant pressure and that is when you get hit. If it is just one bowler you will be content to see him off and then attack others especially slow medium pace bowlers in county cricket.

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3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

But the pressure is built by both ends, you make mistakes when you are under constant pressure and that is when you get hit. If it is just one bowler you will be content to see him off and then attack others especially slow medium pace bowlers in county cricket.

You said he got away with it 

Any idea why he didn't wear a helmet? 

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44 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Safety is paramount and these oldies some how use it as badge of honor. Anyone can get hit, Viv got away without wearing one because he never faced his own bowling attack. Roberts hurt so many batsmen with his fast bouncer.

 

If helmet is there everyone should wear it, we don't want another Phil Hughes or Raman Lamba incidents  .

I would not mind to rate Viv to be the greatest ODI bat or greatest test bat since Bradman if he wore a helmet. The thing is that no cricketer should get extra points for not wearing protection gear, the game was never designed to be dangerous, they (batsmen) are inviting danger for themselves.

Edited by MechEng
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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He was proud of his cap see I not faulting him for not wearing helmet .but he got away  not facing that dreaded 4 prong pace attack.

That's not the reason he didn't wear a helmet. Back then helmets were very heavy and Viv was gifted with great eyesight to pick up line and length quicker than everyone add to this incredible reflexes he was of the opinion that helmets restricted those two qualities . He thought he had more chance of swaying or ducking without helmet than with one . It was nothing about bravery or making a statement on his part just that he felt really restricted wearing one 

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2 minutes ago, MechEng said:

I would not mind to rate Viv to be the greatest ODI bat or greatest test bat since Bradman if he wore a helmet. The thing is that no cricketer should get extra points for not wearing protection gear, the game was never designed to be dangerous, they (batsmen) are inviting danger for themselves.

Viv was great but I do think he never faced his own bowling that often and that made a lot of difference/

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9 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

Viv Richards has stated recently in an interview that he would not wear a helmet as he sees nothing in bowling  today that would make him wear one 

Not sure. Akhtar injury to Kirsten with helmet have you seen?  Batsmen don't like to wear because it restricts your view. That is why as soon as spinners are on they go with cap. Getting hit by express pace can leave you shell shocked.  Besides helmets of those days were not really going to protect you much. It doesn't matter whether you wear or not.

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7 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

That's not the reason he didn't wear a helmet. Back then helmets were very heavy and Viv was gifted with great eyesight to pick up line and length quicker than everyone add to this incredible reflexes he was of the opinion that helmets restricted those two qualities . He thought he had more chance of swaying or ducking without helmet than with one . It was nothing about bravery or making a statement on his part just that he felt really restricted wearing one 

hear from himself why he did not wear helmet.

 

 

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Actually batting with helmet is harder. Heck i even hated gloves and pads. You want to feel as light as possible. Sunil Gavskar had this very light weight pad. Azharuddin's bat was only about 2.2 lbs or something. Sunil gavaskar often said this. He never had to wear helmet because ball never came at the level of his head lol

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Just now, Tattieboy said:

Never seen this interview before.  

 

It doesn't matter who you are, you are bound to make mistakes and when they are available in my view you have to wear them.

 

Concussions and brain damage are no joke.Even Viv now acknowledges how stupid he was for not wearing it.

 

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4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It doesn't matter who you are, you are bound to make mistakes and when they are available in my view you have to wear them.

 

Concussions and brain damage are no joke.Even Viv now acknowledges how stupid he was for not wearing it.

 

Hey I am not advocating no Helmut's ., Far from it.

I know better than most about life changing injuries on a cricket park. 

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10 hours ago, Gollum said:

You can't microanalyze every innings else even Sachin's 1998 home series against Aus and Cook's 2012 India series can be made to look ordinary. I can present enough facts that can diminish Sachin's prowess against Warne-Murali-Saqlain. If you apply such harsh standards there will be very few ATG innings left.

 

In 1976 when we toured WI, Viv scored 142, 177, 130 and 64 and Chandra played those matches, in fact all 4 of the quartet featured in that series. I respect Chandra a great deal and even Viv acknowledged once that Chandra was more dangerous than Jeff Thomson because of his unpredictability. Even if Chandra, Qadir and Hirwani got the better of Viv a few times, doesn't make Viv bad against leg spin. Sachin struggled against Lyon, Murali, Price, Saqlain, Ajmal, Panesar, Mendis etc at various points of his career, I can't generalize and say that he was poor against spin because he clearly wasn't. Warne always rates Viv as among the top bats, he even put him at no 1 in some of his lists...I am sure Warne understands spin bowling more than us and as a kid he must have seen enough of Viv to judge how good or bad he was against spin bowling. If he were poor against leg spin I am sure Warne would have made note of it somewhere. I have read many interviews of Bedi and Prasanna where they talk glowingly about Viv, surely he must have been at least half decent else why these plaudits?

 

I can understand if you rate Younis, Sehwag, Lara, Pujara, VVS etc as better than Viv but Kohli???? He is good but not that good. 2017 home series against Aus was enough proof of his game against them. Even in the past he hasn't set himself apart on turning tracks the way Pujara and to a lesser extent Vijay have done. In ODIs he has hardly been tested by spinners because he has played most of his knocks on featherbeds, we don't have even slightly turning tracks in ODIs these days to judge a batsman's prowess against spin. I mean look at the likes of Warner, Guptill, Dhawan etc (all top order batsmen like Kohli) they aren't great against spin but does modern white ball cricket expose their shortcomings? 

 

Regarding padding argument there was no DRS till 2010s...so should we hold this argument against Sunny, Lara, Sachin, Steve Waugh etc? Padding was a big thing in the 50s and 60s, still get your point but it had reduced a lot in the late 70s and 80s. There were many great batsmen against spin before DRS era, can't deduct points from them all because of padding. By that same logic we must deduct points from modern day batsmen because of protection, bouncer limit, large bats and 100 other things......wahaan ek factor (padding) hai toh mein yahaan 10-15 factor nikaal sakta hoon. 

Warne even rated Yusuf pathan as superman. I would take his comments with pinch of salt. He always goes overboard with his comments. Viv was the best in his era. You think Virat kohli would have struggled against the 80s bowlers same bowlers Viv faced in Tests? May be not.  You don't have crazy schedules like IPL, T20 series, ODI series against so many teams. They had 5 teams that's it. They had tour games. practice games, rest day in between. You think VIv Richards would have done the same in this era. May be. So we cannot conclusively say one is better than other. In this era standing from the pack is much harder than in the 80s. HE played for an ATG team. English team one of the worst in history in the 80s. Nearly 1/4 of his innings were against them. Australia after kerry packer was a shitty team until Border started rebuilding. India was one man's army. Just see off Kapil you can cash in against all the other trundlers.  Two teams he has indifferent record  against was NZ and Pakistan. Both known for swing. One using bottle cap. Other one had sultan of swing. He was great. But you cannot question that he wasn't really challenged enough apart from the 70s a bit. 

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7 hours ago, BeardedAladdin said:

This is a good description of the verbal blowjobs you're giving Viv Richards. 

 

Try being a little more objective, people will have more respect for you. 

I don't care what people think of me, and kindly stop quoting me, not interested in what you have to say. 

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@vvvslaxman England wasn't a weak team in the mid 70s-80s (Viv's career timeline). They had a seriously good ODI team then that made 3 finals in the 1st 5 WCs, they also won 2 test series' in India..some genuine ATGs in 80s England, only in a couple of phases after that, under Vaughan and Strauss have the post 2000 England been comparable to 80s England. Put that England team in today's era and I can see them competing for the test mace.

 

Aus was very very good in the 1st half of Viv's career, then entered a slump before showing signs of resurgence under Border. Viv played against some seriously deadly Aus bowling and came up on top. 

 

India was mediocre during Viv's career but we had our spin quartet (1st half of Viv's career) and scoring against them was going to a challenge for anyone. Besides for a few years in the middle, we were a damn good ODI side. 

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

@vvvslaxman England wasn't a weak team in the mid 70s-80s (Viv's career timeline). They had a seriously good ODI team then that made 3 finals in the 1st 5 WCs, they also won 2 test series' in India..some genuine ATGs in 80s England, only in a couple of phases after that, under Vaughan and Strauss have the post 2000 England been comparable to 80s England. Put that England team in today's era and I can see them competing for the test mace.

 

Aus was very very good in the 1st half of Viv's career, then entered a slump before showing signs of resurgence under Border. Viv played against some seriously deadly Aus bowling and came up on top. 

 

India was mediocre during Viv's career but we had our spin quartet (1st half of Viv's career) and scoring against them was going to a challenge for anyone. Besides for a few years in the middle, we were a damn good ODI side. 

I did follow all those years :)  India was good only in multinational tournament. We got our sh*t canned by WI right after world cup. Against got whopped in 1987. We  even lost to pakistan 1-5 at home. Can never forget India conceding 67 runs in 6 overs to salim malik to notch an improbable win. Windies absolutely had no match given their bowling and batting resources in those days. You could beat them when you catch them on a bad day. West Indies for a very long period was no.1 side. Only around late 80s Australia found players like Waugh, Simon O Donnell, Dean jones, Boon , Marsh , Wessels, Craig McDermott. McDermott was impeccable against Windies. By the time Richards started losing reflexes he started batting at 5 sometimes 6.  Last 4 years of his career Viv Richards averaged mere 29.5. He wimped out of the internationals.   In my view he overstayed. His best ODI year was in 1983,84,85 when most of the teams were crap. made 730,695,1231 in those years. 

Edited by vvvslaxman
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