Who should open with SRT in All time Indian ODI XI?

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, kira said:

Destruction means strike rate not average I knew you would be the first one to reply with a stupid post

i know what did you mean by destruction.  Don't teach me. i posted it to show strike rate does mean anything when you there are not enough runs. Usually Sehwag would would few overs score 25 ball 30 and got out.  I have not checked but i am sure Dhawan and Rohit have a as good or higher strike rate than SRT and Viru partnerships.

[kira]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

i know what did you mean by destruction.  Don't teach me. i posted it to show strike rate does mean anything when you there are not enough runs. Usually Sehwag would would few overs score 25 ball 30 and got out.  I have not checked but i am sure Dhawan and Rohit have a as good or higher strike rate than SRT and Viru partnerships.

Dhawan and rohit are infamous for slowest starts today, go ahead and check it, I am sure srt and viru will be ahead of dhawan and rohit, I don't even need to check the stats to know which pair gave a flying start in the first 15 overs and which pair completely sucked the momentum in the first 15 overs.

 

[velu]

33 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

they did open together quite a lot and their partnership wasn't a huge success.

im..

but sehwag murdering umar gul and then sachin and othet batsmen moving nicely till 35th over is printed in my memory

prevous time sehwag whacked waqar & co , but at that time sachin was alsso whacking padosi bowlers 

[velu]

4 minutes ago, kira said:

Dhawan and rohit are infamous for slowest starts today, go ahead and check it, I am sure srt and viru will be ahead of dhawan and rohit, I don't even need to check the stats to know which pair gave a flying start in the first 15 overs and which pair completely sucked the momentum in the first 15 overs.

 

rohit is known for slow start .. but dhawan will always show some urgency

[rkt.india]

People talking about Sehwag's destructive batting. i  must wake them up from their dreams.  this is what sehwag has done in SA and Aus. Matches 42, averages 24, top scorer 90.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=2;filter=advanced;host=2;host=3;template=results;type=batting

 

 

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, kira said:

Dhawan and rohit are infamous for slowest starts today, go ahead and check it, I am sure srt and viru will be ahead of dhawan and rohit, I don't even need to check the stats to know which pair gave a flying start in the first 15 overs and which pair completely sucked the momentum in the first 15 overs.

 

that is because now openers have to face two new balls and our middle order ****.  you cannot expect them to bat like Sehwag and average 30 and win games which Sehwag did for most of his ODI career.  Sehwag was never an ODI match winner. These two openers are the biggest reason we have won so many matches in recent times and our ODI record has been so good.

[Forever Indian]

Dhawan always seems to show up in ICC and important tourneys, so he is my first choice.

[kira]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

that is because now openers have to face two new balls and our middle order ****.  you cannot expect them to bat like Sehwag and average 30 and win games which Sehwag did for most of his ODI career.  Sehwag was never an ODI match winner. These two openers are the biggest reason we have won so many matches in recent times and our ODI record has been so good.

Dhawan and Rohit are slowest even among their contemporaries, other teams also face 2 new balls, it doesn't stop the openers of other teams from scoring quickly

[kira]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

People talking about Sehwag's destructive batting. i  must wake them up from their dreams.  this is what sehwag has done in SA and Aus. Matches 42, averages 24, top scorer 90.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=2;filter=advanced;host=2;host=3;template=results;type=batting

 

 

Rohit and Dhawan will **** their pants against the aussie and sa team of sehwag's era, also cricket isn't just limited to aus and sa, you are the only one dreaming here

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, kira said:

Rohit and Dhawan will **** their pants against the aussie and sa team of sehwag's era, also cricket isn't just limited to aus and sa, you are the only one dreaming here

you are not seeing the obvious. SA and Aus team still has as good a bowling as they had back then.  Lets include England as well. average 29, one 100 in 75 matches. So here is your top 3 teams in their backyard in world cricket.  i have seen Sehwag i ODIs and witnessed his cringe-worthy batting w hen he would repeatedly try to play everything on off side and lose his stump and or get LBW. 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

[PSB_Zone]

Both sehwag and rohit should be in team but rohit not in the middle order. 

Sehwag

Sachin

Rohit

Kohli

Uv

Dhoni

Kapil

Bumrah

Zaheer

Kuldee

Chahal

[rkt.india]

Dont why people mix Sehwag the test batsman and Sehwag the ODI batsmen. Sehwag the test batsman was great, but the ODI batsman was just plain average. i will take Dhawan, Rohit, Dhawan, Ganguly ahead of him in ODIs.

Edited February 15, 2018 by rkt.india

[kira]

10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Dont why people mix Sehwag the test batsman and Sehwag the ODI batsmen. Sehwag the test batsman was great, but the ODI batsman was just plain average. i will take Dhawan, Rohit, Dhawan, Ganguly ahead of him in ODIs.

We are not talking about sehwag the odi batsman, we're talking about sachin-sehwag combo which was epic, even if sehwag made just 30 runs at the top, he still gave India a flying start and set the momentum for the whole innings, sachin-sehwag combo was way more iconic than rohit-dhawan combo, sachin-sehwag combo was one of the most destructive opening pair in world cricket

[kira]

21 minutes ago, PSB_Zone said:

Both sehwag and rohit should be in team but rohit not in the middle order. 

Sehwag

Sachin

Rohit

Kohli

Uv

Dhoni

Kapil

Bumrah

Zaheer

Kuldee

Chahal

Nobody can displace king kohli from no. 3, rohit misses out. My all time Indian odi XI will be as follows:-

 

Sehwag

Sachin

Kohli

Ganguly

UV

Dhoni

Kapil

Zaheer

Srinath

Bumrah

Kuldeep (still early days)/bhajji/kumble

[Pollack]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

So, Morkel, Rabada isnt an ATG attack? Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins isnt an ATG attack?

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, kira said:

We are not talking about sehwag the odi batsman, we're talking about sachin-sehwag combo which was epic, even if sehwag made just 30 runs at the top, he still gave India a flying start and set the momentum for the whole innings, sachin-sehwag combo was way more iconic than rohit-dhawan combo, sachin-sehwag combo was one of the most destructive opening pair in world cricket

Iconic gaya bhaad me. What is the use of iconic if that could not deliver the results and why are we not talking about Sehwag the batsman and an opening batsman is not there just to score 30. 30s do not win you any games. to give you an idea Sehwag has 53 50 plus scores in 245 innings, roughly just under 4.6 innings per 50. Rohit has 51 50 plus scores in 173 innings around 3.5 innings per 50 despite half of them being batted in middle order. Dhawan has 38 50+ scores in 100 innings under 2.6 innings per 50, so, I know who I will pick out of them and it won't be Sehwag. The more runs an opener score, better your chances of setting or chasing big totals. 

 

@Trichromaticcan you get the win loss ratio of opening combos of different opening pairs we had?

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, Pollack said:

then which is an ATG attack in ODIs? you will have to take in account the era and in his era any bowler averaging 25-27 is an ODI ATG for me. you can judge today's batsmen and bowler on the standard of 80s and 90s when you will rarely see big scores and anything at 5 rpo was a winning total.

 

Mitchell Starc average 20 with an SR of 25 141 wickets in 72 games and ER under 5 is as good as it gets. same with Hazlewood with average of 24 and SR of 30 and ER of 4.72. These two are certified ODI ATGs.  Cummins with 64 wickets in 39 ODIs as good a support bowler as any.

 

then comes to Morkel with an average 24 is an ODI ATG. Rabada with 75 wickets in 48 ODIs is another one as good as any with wickets per match.

 

Yes, i know past is nostalgic and often we miss the context when we talk about past and glorify it, but most of these bowlers would have been as good in the 90s as those past ATGs in their time were.

Edited February 15, 2018 by rkt.india

[kira]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Iconic gaya bhaad me. What is the use of iconic if that could not deliver the results and why are we not talking about Sehwag the batsman and an opening batsman is not there just to score 30. 30s do not win you any games. to give you an idea Sehwag has 53 50 plus scores in 245 innings, roughly just under 4.6 innings per 50. Rohit has 51 50 plus scores in 173 innings around 3.5 innings per 50 despite half of them being batted in middle order. Dhawan has 38 50+ scores in 100 innings under 2.6 innings per 50, so, I know who I will pick out of them and it won't be Sehwag. The more runs an opener score, better your chances of setting or chasing big totals. 

 

@Trichromaticcan you get the win loss ratio of opening combos of different opening pairs we had?

bhaad mein gaya tera sada hua logic which can't even differentiate the averages of different eras, sehwag's odi strike rate is 105 in 2000s while both rohit and dhawan struggle to keep their strike rate above 90 even in todays batting friendly era. A quick 30 from sehwag means India is off to 50 in no time and thus momentum is with India and the opposing bowlers are demoralized, classic example of this was 2011 wc semis against phateecharstan. According to your logic dhawan and rohit are better openers than jayasuria 

Edited February 15, 2018 by kira

[kira]

An opener's job is to get his team a great start, if an opener can get the team to a flyer and also build a long innings then that opener comes in the greatest of all time league (like tendulkar), sehwag was a not great opener but a very good opener and with sachin he fulfilled his role and got the team to flyer more often than not

[Number]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Iconic gaya bhaad me. What is the use of iconic if that could not deliver the results and why are we not talking about Sehwag the batsman and an opening batsman is not there just to score 30. 30s do not win you any games. to give you an idea Sehwag has 53 50 plus scores in 245 innings, roughly just under 4.6 innings per 50. Rohit has 51 50 plus scores in 173 innings around 3.5 innings per 50 despite half of them being batted in middle order. Dhawan has 38 50+ scores in 100 innings under 2.6 innings per 50, so, I know who I will pick out of them and it won't be Sehwag. The more runs an opener score, better your chances of setting or chasing big totals. 

 

@Trichromaticcan you get the win loss ratio of opening combos of different opening pairs we had?

Nah Sehwag played a role. We had a very good middle order so we could afford him. 

Eg. his 30 odd in WC SF did set us ahead in the game and despite excellent bowling in middle overs from Pak they were only catching up.