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Hardik Pandya doesn't contribute with bat, lucky to be called all-rounder: Roger Binny

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16 hours ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

Even yuvraj tried to hit a six off every ball during his first few games. Later he put a price on his wicket.

 

It's good that HP is going through this phase before the WC. He will learn after it stings a bit.

Difference is Yuvraj batted 5. Pandya 7 and has no choice but to throw his bat. He has been used as pinch hitter at times and most of his good innings have come when he batted up the order.

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7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Difference is Yuvraj batted 5. Pandya 7 and has no choice but to throw his bat. He has been used as pinch hitter at times and most of his good innings have come when he batted up the order.

Didn't pandya come earlier than 7 in the odi series ?

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On 2/23/2018 at 11:55 PM, jf1gp_1 said:

 bhuvi outscores hardik in both test and ODIs, noone calls bhuvi allrounder. I really hope he comes back strongly

There are different levels of all rounder. someone who can score 100, someone who can score 50s, Someone can contribute to the team with 30s. Ashwin is above Pandya, Jadeja, Bhuvi. Then Pandya who has the capability to be a decent batsman. Just that stupid shot selection lets him down. Bhuvi comes next. He has organized technique. Always tries to get inline.  Jaddu comes next even though he should have been above Pandya based on his domestic. Sadly it is a mystery that we will never understand. Jayant Yadav is another solid batsman we should keep in the reserve. If only he develops his bowling skill he will be a big asset.

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1 minute ago, Straight Drive said:

Hardik is better ODI and T20 batsman than Bhuvi imo.

 

Bhuvi is a better test batsman than Hardik.

Hardik hasn't done anything in T20Is. There isn't much difference between batsman averaging 7 and 10.

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9 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Hardik is better ODI and T20 batsman than Bhuvi imo.

 

Bhuvi is a better test batsman than Hardik.

Hardik is miles better bat then bk . Lol jeez bk doing ok recently but not in same league . Time will prove this as well

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I don't care about Binny's intentions but Pandya that batsman was a big disappointment. Poor technique coupled with lack of situational awareness.

Pandya at 6 and Saha at 7 makes me really nervous on spicy pitches abroad. I can imagine typical scores of 220/4 to 235 all out against Starc and companies with these guys.

 

Pandya will be a giant in subcontinent conditions where he can be a good-enough second fast bowling option should captain decide to play 3 spinners and his batting inadequacies won't be exposed as much. 

Edited by GolGappe

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On 3/4/2018 at 9:59 AM, GolGappe said:

I don't care about Binny's intentions but Pandya that batsman was a big disappointment. Poor technique coupled with lack of situational awareness.

Pandya at 6 and Saha at 7 makes me really nervous on spicy pitches abroad. I can imagine typical scores of 220/4 to 235 all out against Starc and companies with these guys.

 

Pandya will be a giant in subcontinent conditions where he can be a good-enough second fast bowling option should captain decide to play 3 spinners and his batting inadequacies won't be exposed as much. 

but our 8 and 9 will be relatively solid (Ashwin and Bhuvi).

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38 minutes ago, zen said:

Pandya, currently, is in a league of his own as someone who can not only bowl quick but also massacre bowling attacks (esp on his day) .... And he is likely to reach his peak in near future

When he peaks he can play. Right now more deserving people need to play.

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2 hours ago, Khota said:

When he peaks he can play. Right now more deserving people need to play.

That anyone else is "more deserving" is debatable. He is already winning matches for Ind and contributing so is a great addition to the side. Should continue to play as he will not only contribute but keep improving! 

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7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

who are those more deserving 

power hitters ?

seaming all rounder? 

 

that we dont know of 

Pandya can easily be replaced by proper batsman or a proper bowler. One man cannot excel in both batting and bowling. It is not possible. But if you talk about bits and pieces player he is better than others.

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On 3/19/2018 at 5:09 PM, Khota said:

When he peaks he can play. Right now more deserving people need to play.

Every player peaks only when he has played a substantial number of international matches.  

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4 hours ago, Khota said:

Pandya can easily be replaced by proper batsman or a proper bowler. One man cannot excel in both batting and bowling. It is not possible. But if you talk about bits and pieces player he is better than others.

ok suggest me only a better hitter at no.7 then hardik.....cant play a technically sound batsman at 7 like rahane or pujara 

 

If u have forgotten we did play jadeja at 7 for many years who was more of a bowler and that was one of the biggest weakness of our batting lineup for yrs n yrs

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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Pandya should play every LOI game we need him to come good and he seems like a big occassion player. If he grows as a player and has a good 1-2 IPLs he will be a very handy player.

 

india's issue is relying on him too much where their primary bowler choices are weak or weak batsmen are picked. Thats why we need a settled middle order so he can do his thing.

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7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Every player peaks only when he has played a substantial number of international matches.  

I understand that. This Nidhas trophy was the place for Pandya not SA. he has long way to go.

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

didnt he play a brilliant knock in test and bowled really well in Odi 

If a seaming all rounder place isnt in SA , god knws where it wud be

 

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ok suggest me only a better hitter at no.7 then hardik.....cant play a technically sound batsman at 7 like rahane or pujara 

 

If u have forgotten we did play jadeja at 7 for many years who was more of a bowler and that was one of the biggest weakness of our batting lineup for yrs n yrs

Pandya in all instances should have been replaced by a real bowler. Except for tests the batting depth was never called upon. Any real bowler could have done more damage.

It goes back to what I have been saying . Allrounders do not exist.

Let me put my point forward in another way. Can the same athlete be asked to to do 100 m dash and marathon? No.

Similarly batting and bowling are different skillsets. One person cannot do both.

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4 minutes ago, Khota said:

Let me put my point forward in another way. Can the same athlete be asked to to do 100 m dash and marathon? No.

Similarly batting and bowling are different skillsets. One person cannot do both.

Thanks for the comic relief :rofl: 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Khota said:

 

Pandya in all instances should have been replaced by a real bowler. Except for tests the batting depth was never called upon. Any real bowler could have done more damage.

But our batting fell short in test cricket wht was the need of extra bowler and ur extra batsman rohit was awful on whole tour 

8 minutes ago, Khota said:

It goes back to what I have been saying . Allrounders do not exist.

Let me put my point forward in another way. Can the same athlete be asked to to do 100 m dash and marathon? No.

For the love of god stop comparing cricket with other sport, i dnt knw other sport goes for 5 days 

8 minutes ago, Khota said:

Similarly batting and bowling are different skillsets. One person cannot do both.

ha imran , kapil, kallis, sober, cairns, klusner, flintoff to mazak krte the na

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

For the love of god stop comparing cricket with other sport, i dnt knw other sport goes for 5 days 

ha imran , kapil, kallis, sober, cairns, klusner, flintoff to mazak krte the na

For many, the law of diminishing returns can be hard to understand. For them, if eating is good, eating more is better 

 

For e.g, if you play your best players based on form and conditions, the question is what return is playing that extra batsmen or bowler going to provide

 

In test, the extra bowler is likely to be underbowled, while the extra batsmen could not have a desired impact. In LOIs, since RR is a key factor, you are likely to see wkts fall as batsmen fall in trying to up/maintain the tempo. The all-rounder provides that cushion 

 

Then you also have to consider, the bell curve, where 68% fall within 1 SD. So it is likely that the team is not playing an outlier as the extra batsman or bowler. The quality difference b/w the extra batsmen/bowler and the all rounder may not be too significant 

 

On the other hand, a good all- rounder is already an outlier in his domain, closer to those within the 1 SD.  Which provides the team with a Swiss Army knife option

 

Additionally, All rounders tend to be power hitters too, which gives the team extra flexibility 

 

Pandya, unlike other options such as Binny, can bowl with pace. While his batting is very good for the lower middle order position. Making him a no brainer selection. And he is yet to reach his peak. Only way, he can be overlooked is if his performances go downhill 

 

The guy looks to contribute with the bat and ball, while keeping Ind in the game or changing the game with his fielding, an often overlooked factor!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zen

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2 hours ago, zen said:

For many, the law of diminishing returns can be hard to understand. For them, if eating is good, eating more is better 

 

For e.g, if you play your best players based on form and conditions, the question is what return is playing that extra batsmen or bowler going to provide

 

In test, the extra bowler is likely to be underbowled, while the extra batsmen could not have a desired impact. In LOIs, since RR is a key factor, you are likely to see wkts fall as batsmen fall in trying to up/maintain the tempo. The all-rounder provides that cushion 

 

Then you also have to consider, the bell curve, where 68% fall within 1 SD. So it is likely that the team is not playing an outlier as the extra batsman or bowler. The quality difference b/w the extra batsmen/bowler and the all rounder may not be too significant 

 

On the other hand, a good all- rounder is already an outlier in his domain, closer to those within the 1 SD.  Which provides the team with a Swiss Army knife option

 

Additionally, All rounders tend to be power hitters too, which gives the team extra flexibility 

 

Pandya, unlike other options such as Binny, can bowl with pace. While his batting is very good for the lower middle order position. Making him a no brainer selection. And he is yet to reach his peak. Only way, he can be overlooked is if his performances go downhill 

True, at the end of the day we need to look at what our team needs

After ages we have bowlers who bowl 140+ and in order to make them bowl at full steam we have to give them that 12-15 over rest which is provided by a 5th bowler. Now u cant use part timers as 12-15 overs are enough time to take a game away. 

Neither we have sachin, sehwag, ganguly to fill up over so a 5th bowler need is must

 

So many can say lets play a complete bowler

Well imagine saha, ashwin, jadeja, bhuvi , bumrah, shami ........thats a long tail specially when u have inconsistent players like vijay, rahul, rahane and one more batsman like pujara who has question mark over his overseas perfomance. 

 

A balance is needed so in comes pandya and he has done better then our 6th batsman rohit sharma 

2 hours ago, zen said:

 

The guy looks to contribute with the bat and ball, while keeping Ind in the game or changing the game with his fielding, an often overlooked factor!

Also in the field, that runout of amla......

its all about 20 wkts and if a fielder like pandya can create 1-2 wkts due to excellent fielding.....its a bonus

 

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5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

But our batting fell short in test cricket wht was the need of extra bowler and ur extra batsman rohit was awful on whole tour 

For the love of god stop comparing cricket with other sport, i dnt knw other sport goes for 5 days 

ha imran , kapil, kallis, sober, cairns, klusner, flintoff to mazak krte the na

A true batsman in SA would have easily outperformed pandya. Why is that difficult for you to understand I really dont know.

 

Cricket is similar to most other team sports. All cars have the same compression ignition engine though some may have more cylinders than others.

 

In the last part you have answered my question better than I ever could. So according to you and correctly so in last one hundred years of Indian cricket history there was one allrounder kapil Dev. So if one comes along in 100 years why waste time looking ofr one. Always go with specialist not part timers.

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4 hours ago, zen said:

For many, the law of diminishing returns can be hard to understand. For them, if eating is good, eating more is better 

 

For e.g, if you play your best players based on form and conditions, the question is what return is playing that extra batsmen or bowler going to provide

 

In test, the extra bowler is likely to be underbowled, while the extra batsmen could not have a desired impact. In LOIs, since RR is a key factor, you are likely to see wkts fall as batsmen fall in trying to up/maintain the tempo. The all-rounder provides that cushion 

 

Then you also have to consider, the bell curve, where 68% fall within 1 SD. So it is likely that the team is not playing an outlier as the extra batsman or bowler. The quality difference b/w the extra batsmen/bowler and the all rounder may not be too significant 

 

On the other hand, a good all- rounder is already an outlier in his domain, closer to those within the 1 SD.  Which provides the team with a Swiss Army knife option

 

Additionally, All rounders tend to be power hitters too, which gives the team extra flexibility 

 

Pandya, unlike other options such as Binny, can bowl with pace. While his batting is very good for the lower middle order position. Making him a no brainer selection. And he is yet to reach his peak. Only way, he can be overlooked is if his performances go downhill 

 

The guy looks to contribute with the bat and ball, while keeping Ind in the game or changing the game with his fielding, an often overlooked factor!

 

 

 

 

 

For me this is also a case of law of diminishing returns. In one hundred years if we get one all rounder why should we spend energy looking for one?

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4 hours ago, zen said:

For many, the law of diminishing returns can be hard to understand. For them, if eating is good, eating more is better 

 

For e.g, if you play your best players based on form and conditions, the question is what return is playing that extra batsmen or bowler going to provide

 

In test, the extra bowler is likely to be underbowled, while the extra batsmen could not have a desired impact. In LOIs, since RR is a key factor, you are likely to see wkts fall as batsmen fall in trying to up/maintain the tempo. The all-rounder provides that cushion 

 

Then you also have to consider, the bell curve, where 68% fall within 1 SD. So it is likely that the team is not playing an outlier as the extra batsman or bowler. The quality difference b/w the extra batsmen/bowler and the all rounder may not be too significant 

 

On the other hand, a good all- rounder is already an outlier in his domain, closer to those within the 1 SD.  Which provides the team with a Swiss Army knife option

 

Additionally, All rounders tend to be power hitters too, which gives the team extra flexibility 

 

Pandya, unlike other options such as Binny, can bowl with pace. While his batting is very good for the lower middle order position. Making him a no brainer selection. And he is yet to reach his peak. Only way, he can be overlooked is if his performances go downhill 

 

The guy looks to contribute with the bat and ball, while keeping Ind in the game or changing the game with his fielding, an often overlooked factor!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Batsman and bowlers if selected as the best in their profession shoild be well within one sigma. Pandya may be  within 1 std devd but  that is almost like 68% which is very loose tolerance. If he is true alronder he should be contributing within few percentages of a average bowler and a batsman. That is just not possible day in day out.

Edited by Khota

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1 hour ago, Khota said:

A true batsman in SA would have easily outperformed pandya. Why is that difficult for you to understand I really dont know.

Rohit sharma 

Murali vijay

Pujara 

Kl rahul 

Dhawan

 

All true batsman who came close to his score of 90+ 

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Cricket is similar to most other team sports. All cars have the same compression ignition engine though some may have more cylinders than others.

Yet cricket requires a whole lot of different n many many skills 

1 hour ago, Khota said:

In the last part you have answered my question better than I ever could. So according to you and correctly so in last one hundred years of Indian cricket history there was one allrounder kapil Dev. So if one comes along in 100 years why waste time looking ofr one. Always go with specialist not part timers.

Kapil dev didnt become The kapil dev overnight ....he was given chance and played for many yrs and then he became kapil

Pandya has performed really well and has contributed in most games and more then specialist ............why shudnt he deserve a place

 

A lot of times specialist dont give u the balance, and u ahve the see the team and its problems 

No two team in same sport or different sport will have same problem so why same solution. 

 

Jaisi marz waisi dawa, this team needs all rounder or say bits n pieces for the right balance. If disagree form me a team to show how does a specialist give balance n ill; question it 

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2 hours ago, Khota said:

For me this is also a case of law of diminishing returns. In one hundred years if we get one all rounder why should we spend energy looking for one?

Law of diminishing returns works when you have a reasonable amount already .... Your point is like saying that since Ind has usually had trundlers, why should we spend time looking for a fast bowler (or a quality wrist spinner for that matter)!

 

 

Edited by zen

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4 hours ago, zen said:

Law of diminishing returns works when you have a reasonable amount already .... Your point is like saying that since Ind has usually had trundlers, why should we spend time looking for a fast bowler (or a quality wrist spinner for that matter)!

 

 

Not really. If you expend lot of effort for no return then that is law of diminshing returns.

There is so much time looking for allrounder and if you find one in 100 years then it is best to quit looking.

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6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rohit sharma 

Murali vijay

Pujara 

Kl rahul 

Dhawan

 

All true batsman who came close to his score of 90+ 

Yet cricket requires a whole lot of different n many many skills 

Kapil dev didnt become The kapil dev overnight ....he was given chance and played for many yrs and then he became kapil

Pandya has performed really well and has contributed in most games and more then specialist ............why shudnt he deserve a place

 

A lot of times specialist dont give u the balance, and u ahve the see the team and its problems 

No two team in same sport or different sport will have same problem so why same solution. 

 

Jaisi marz waisi dawa, this team needs all rounder or say bits n pieces for the right balance. If disagree form me a team to show how does a specialist give balance n ill; question it 

How long you can milk that 90. rest of the time he was an abject failure.

He was failure as a bowler and a batsman.

Cricket does not require any extra skill compared to any other sports.

let me go a step further and tell you cricket players are probably the worst athletes of any modern sports.

 

I dont know if you remember kapil Devs debut or not. You could feel something different about him. I get no such feeling from Pandya.

Edited by Khota

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1 hour ago, Khota said:

Not really. If you expend lot of effort for no return then that is law of diminshing returns.

There is so much time looking for allrounder and if you find one in 100 years then it is best to quit looking.

We have one good AR already, giving Ind good returns as discussed and pointed out by many. And when he peaks, he would potentially become even better 

 

It does not change the fact that teams look for quality fast bowlers / wrist spinners / ARs even if they have not gone one in 100 years or whatever. Not many teams  would want a Vinay Kumar as its opening bowler 

 

Thank you for the comedy though! 

Edited by zen

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14 minutes ago, zen said:

We have one good AR already, giving Ind good returns as discussed and pointed out by many. And when he peaks, he would potentially become even better 

 

It does not change the fact that teams look for quality fast bowlers / wrist spinners / ARs even if they have not gone one in 100 years or whatever. Not many teams  would want a Vinay Kumar as its opening bowler 

 

Thank you for the comedy though! 

I never said Vinay Kumar should be opening bowler.

All I am saying is one person cannot excel in two disciplines.

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4 minutes ago, Khota said:

I never said Vinay Kumar should be opening bowler.

All I am saying is one person cannot excel in two disciplines.

Your comedy continues .... I drew parallel using Vinay Kumar as an example :facepalm:

 

You can say whatever you want. It does not change the fact that ARs exist :wink:

 

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2 minutes ago, zen said:

Your comedy continues .... I drew parallel using Vinay Kumar as an example :facepalm:

 

You can say whatever you want. It does not change the fact that ARs exist :wink:

 

When you find one let me know.

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29 minutes ago, Khota said:

One who can neither bat or bowl. That is what I see now a days.

Based on your comments here, I won't be surprised that if you watched hockey thinking it to be cricket :rofl:

 

You don't know how to read stats, but you want to comment on it. You don't know what an allrounder is, but want to comment on it .... There is a saying - "look before you leap" :agree:

Edited by zen

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