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AmreekanDesi

Shastri/Kohli's stubbornness in team selections led to India wasting a golden chance to win Test series in SA

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11 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

So pissed...

 

we we got our team right in the ODIs and t20a and absolutely smashed them

 

and Aus are making SA look like absolute mugs right now 

More like a lack of player quality. Good tactics are good tactics, but a difference in player quality will make significant difference. If India are to be proud of their cricket team, they cannot rely on good tactics to make up a lack of talent.

 

Ensure that the players are good enough, such that there is a significant gap in talent. Then you can use the bulldozing tactics which Australia so admirably use, and with such great efficient. Look at Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc. They are gorging on stupendous bowling talent. These are 3 intellectuals at the very core of Australia's sporting philosophy. They create a gap in talent. They can hence bulldoze the South African lineup, on a pitch where they themselves score 350. 

 

When you look at the likes of Rohit, Vijay, Pujara etc. you can deduce that Indian cricket likes attractive, but not efficient batsmen. For instance look at David Warner, an opener. Very first test, and he notches a useful fifty. Indian batsmen need to be efficient, and the bowling, though it is on an upward incline, needs to be of higher class.

 

Sport is, first and foremost, about talent. 

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4 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

Indeed, we could have won this series if Rahane was selected instead of Talent. Some next batsman was selected instead of Pandya, who hardly bowled. 

if we had better players, we could have won.

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1 minute ago, wanted_desi said:

We had better players but they were benched or not taken all together. What was point of taking Jedeja to South Africa, why not one leg spinner those enjoyed success later on. 

then those players should have made a better case for selection. They were not good/skilled enough to make conclusive selection.

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This pitch is no minefield like the ones SA prepared against us. Absolute top class bowling from Australia. We do have decent bowlers but Australian bowlers are on another level.

 

If Indian bowlers had been playing instead of Australian bowlers in this test, ABD would have formed important partnerships with Philander, Maharaja, Rabada and final score would have been around 340 giving a small lead to India, who in turn would end up getting all out for 180 in the third innings, which SA would chase with 50s from Faf and Elgar. All this of course is assuming Rahane helped us score 350 first up. Lost in first test was always on the cards due to the schedule. The second test was what disappointed me. There weren't many demons, we could have got a big lead if those midgets Vijay and Pujara had supported Kohli and another midget Ashwin had bowled the right line and lengths. And also the toss didn't do us any favour. 

Edited by Jamadagni

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1 minute ago, Jamadagni said:

This pitch is no minefield like the ones SA prepared against us. Absolute top class bowling from Australia. We do have decent bowlers but Australian bowlers are on another level.

 

If Indian bowlers had been playing instead of Australian bowlers in this test, ABD would have formed important partnerships with Philander, Maharaja, Rabada and final score would have been around 340 giving a small lead to India, who in turn would end up getting all out for 180, which SA would chase with 50s from Faf and Elgar. This is of course assuming Rahane helped us score 350 first up. Lost in first test was always on the cards due to the schedule. The second test was what disappointed me. There weren't many demons, we could have got a big lead if those midgets Vijay and Pujara had supported Kohli and another midget Ashwin had bowled the right line and lengths. 

correct. lyon is better than ashwin, but warne was 15 times better than lyon.

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1 minute ago, Jamadagni said:

By the way when was the last time Australia lost a series in South Africa? They have outclassed whatever team South Africa played with. Cant gauge our performance by comparing with Australia's. 

you sure can. Australia are just a better team.

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52 minutes ago, lamellavig said:

Sport is, first and foremost, about talent preparation

corrected.

 

talent means its a natural skill, sports(cricket) can be coached and learned.

 

India lacked in preparation of a different kind not the basics but more advanced practice games that Aus have got right.

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39 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

Indeed, we could have won this series if Rahane was selected instead of Talent. Some next batsman was selected instead of Pandya, who hardly bowled. Leg spinner was selected instead of finger Spinner. 

Rahane - Rohit

Kuldeep - Ashwin

Bhuvi played second test.

 

These were top mess ups.

 

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8 minutes ago, Jamadagni said:

By the way when was the last time Australia lost a series in South Africa? They have outclassed whatever team South Africa played with. Cant gauge our performance by comparing with Australia's. 

SA have won last three series in Aus, Aus has done the same in SA.

 

with these two teams the home/away somehow reverses.

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3 minutes ago, Vilander said:

again they just got trashed in India. So be more specific.

They won by 333 runs. They were the more attacking cricket team, and India were the more defensive cricket team. Sure they lost 2-1, but they brutally dominated a test and won by 333 runs, playing exciting attacking, philosphical cricket throughout. 

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Just now, lamellavig said:

They won by 333 runs. They were the more attacking cricket team, and India were the more defensive cricket team. Sure they lost 2-1, but they brutally dominated a test and won by 333 runs, playing exciting attacking, philosphical cricket throughout. 

They still were not the better team. India has won in Aus as well, still Aus is a better team in Aus. Just stating facts. Point is to win games and series.

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Just now, Vilander said:

They still were not the better team. India has won in Aus as well, still Aus is a better team in Aus. Just stating facts. Point is to win games and series.

India has never won a test series in Aus, where Aus have won multiple series in India. 

 

Anyway, you suggested that Aus were trashed. Aus are never trashed, especially not by India. To suggest Aus were trashed by India is bordering on insanity. Let me make that clear. it was a very even series, slightly edged by India. However, Aus were clearly the more philosophical and attacking cricket team. 

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2 minutes ago, lamellavig said:

India has never won a test series in Aus, where Aus have won multiple series in India. 

 

Anyway, you suggested that Aus were trashed. Aus are never trashed, especially not by India. To suggest Aus were trashed by India is bordering on insanity. Let me make that clear. it was a very even series, slightly edged by India. However, Aus were clearly the more philosophical and attacking cricket team. 

Agreed Aus dominates at home better, basically a home track bully, before Lyon they did not have a good spinner in India, we will only know next series if India now have good fastbowlers in Aus. Imagine Aus and India playing across the world. India would trash Aus in SC wickets, Aus would trash India seaming tracks as their bowlers will exploit it better, it will be lurid in swinging seaming conditions one of them will loose, still Aus will probably get the better of India.  Remember the 3rd test was almost own by India aus were 175 odd for 6 but there was not enough time. 

 

Aus is not just the better team.

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8 minutes ago, lamellavig said:

Aus are never trashed, especially not by India. To suggest Aus were trashed by India is bordering on insanity. Let me make that clear. it was a very even series, slightly edged by India. However, Aus were clearly the more philosophical and attacking cricket team. 

pfft what was 4-0 in 2013 test series ? hehe if thats not trashing what is ? 

 

I remember they were even very close to loosing to India A in 3 days hehe..

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1 minute ago, Vilander said:

Agreed Aus dominates at home better, basically a home track bully, before Lyon they did not have a good spinner in India, we will only know next series if India now have good fastbowlers in Aus. Imagine Aus and India playing across the world. India would trash Aus in SC wickets, Aus would trash India seaming tracks as their bowlers will exploit it better, it will be lurid in swinging seaming conditions one of them will loose, still Aus will probably get the better of India.  Remember the 3rd test was almost own by India aus were 175 odd for 6 but there was not enough time. 

 

Aus is not just the better team.

The idiocy is extreme here.

 

1) we know that Aus have SIGNIFICANTLY better fast bowling than India. Observe how Aus demolished SA on a flat pitch, whereas India struggle to dismiss SA below 250 in the first innings of first test, and also let SA get 340 on a comparable pitch in second test.

 

2) I already explained that India did not trash Aus at home. However, your stupidity warrants further explanation. Allow me to confirm that Aus won a test by playing exciting, attacking cricket to the tune of 333 runs. They also lost an even series 2-1.

 

3) Aus have more intellectuals in their team than India, and focus on playing philosphical, attacking cricket for the spectators.

 

Hence, Australia may be a home-track bully, but they are several eons above India away from home. They are so good at home that they are indeed bullies, but they are still bullies away from home. 

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15 minutes ago, lamellavig said:

you sure can. Australia are just a better team.

They surely are a better team in those conditions. But India are better overall. Australia were whitewashed by Sri Lanka of all teams when the latter were at the lowest point in their history and lost a test to Bangladesh, which India never will even in a million years. And in the decider in India last year,  Australia got the perfect pitch they could have hoped for in Dharmasala which had good seam and bounce and also won the toss, but India were more disciplined and ended up winning the match and the series. 

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Just now, Vilander said:

pfft what was 4-0 in 2013 test series ? hehe if thats not trashing what is ? 

 

I remember they were even very close to loosing to India A in 3 days hehe..

I was talking about 2017. 

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Just now, lamellavig said:

I already explained that India did not trash Aus at home. However, your stupidity warrants further explanation. Allow me to confirm that Aus won a test by playing exciting, attacking cricket to the tune of 333 runs. They also lost an even series 2-1.

hehe are you a 12 year old ? did you see 2012-13 series.. ?

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Just now, Jamadagni said:

They surely are a better team in those conditions. But India are better overall. Australia were whitewashed by Sri Lanka of all teams when the latter were at the lowest point in their history and lost a test to Bangladesh, which India never will even in a million years. And in the decider in India last year,  Australia got the perfect pitch they could have hoped for in Dharmasala which had good seam and bounce and also won the toss, but India were more disciplined and ended up winning the match and the series. 

It is very close, I will give you that. But Australia must be envied, because during their golden era they were by far the best. Now, in India's golden era, they are still fighting with Aussies, they are nowhere near same dominance/ 

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1 minute ago, Vilander said:

you said 'never trashed'. never is not 2017. dont shift goal posts, be measured and analytical in your posts. If you are not people will call you out here.

Fine, but observe my analysis on Australia's superiority. 

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It happens in cricket but I personally feel  Ind bowling is very strong they made every attempt infact succeeded in each test to make a match out of nothing when our batsmen absolutely put a dud performance...what do you call when your star batsmen fail to score 208 after are bowlers hunted them out for  130 against a Steyn less attack,they were one bowler short then too we folded out for 135

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For India to do well overseas the batting has to flourish. Indian bats went dead in SA and the bulk of the blame goes to openers. Then dropping Dhawan for Rahul was a stategic mistake which compounded the problem. Biggest culprit Rahul and Vijay.

Start hating.

Edited by Khota

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Dhawan in first test and Rohit through out the Test series, were the biggest idiotic selections made. I lost interest after that second Test. If this is the glimpse of what in store for Indian cricket in the future, this not even worth our time. 

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1 hour ago, lamellavig said:

Observe how Aus demolished SA on a flat pitch, whereas India struggle to dismiss SA below 250 in the first innings of first test, and also let SA get 340 on a comparable pitch in second test.

pitches ?- the only game India played in Durban was the ODI which they won very comfortably. Aus played first innings like SA and did well.

 

1 hour ago, lamellavig said:

I already explained that India did not trash Aus at home. However, your stupidity warrants further explanation. Allow me to confirm that Aus won a test by playing exciting, attacking cricket to the tune of 333 runs. They also lost an even series 2-1.

 

first up be polite there is nothing you can do in a forum but type, do you see me insulting you ( i can but i choose not to).  exciting attacking etc are subjective terms team that wins won the game simple.  Losing a series 2-1 and almost loosing 3rd game 6 down for 175 an innings behind ?? thats not even thats getting trashed. Besides aus have lost 4-0 in India. 

 

1 hour ago, lamellavig said:

Aus have more intellectuals in their team than India, and focus on playing philosphical, attacking cricket for the spectators

i can say this is quite funny. I like Aus cricketers and even fans, but cant say the same for pak fans ;)

1 hour ago, lamellavig said:

Fine, but observe my analysis on Australia's superiority. 

lets do one better, i will let you write about your team paks performance in SA instead :wp3:

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1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

It happens in cricket but I personally feel  Ind bowling is very strong they made every attempt infact succeeded in each test to make a match out of nothing when our batsmen absolutely put a dud performance...what do you call when your star batsmen fail to score 208 after are bowlers hunted them out for  130 against a Steyn less attack,they were one bowler short then too we folded out for 135

lack of practice games. it was the first game in the series, unbelievable no team does that. appears its just not a priority for them test cricket.

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9 hours ago, lamellavig said:

The idiocy is extreme here.

 

1) we know that Aus have SIGNIFICANTLY better fast bowling than India. Observe how Aus demolished SA on a flat pitch, whereas India struggle to dismiss SA below 250 in the first innings of first test, and also let SA get 340 on a comparable pitch in second test.

 

2) I already explained that India did not trash Aus at home. However, your stupidity warrants further explanation. Allow me to confirm that Aus won a test by playing exciting, attacking cricket to the tune of 333 runs. They also lost an even series 2-1.

 

3) Aus have more intellectuals in their team than India, and focus on playing philosphical, attacking cricket for the spectators.

 

Hence, Australia may be a home-track bully, but they are several eons above India away from home. They are so good at home that they are indeed bullies, but they are still bullies away from home. 

first of name calling doesnt help anyone 

 

Do you know when aussies reach SA ? 2+ week ahead when the ODI series was going on. They settled then played a warmup game then again has 4-5 days before 1st test started. We reach 4-5 days ahead of first test. The real question is did we set ourselves up for a win ?

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Despite all the blunders, if the batters had somehow managed to not crap their pants in the 4th innings of the first test and chased down the 200 odd runs, the series could have been won. Still hurts that none of the batsmen could come up with an epic innings to drag the team over the finish line.

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12 hours ago, wanted_desi said:

We had better players but they were benched or not taken all together. What was point of taking Jedeja to South Africa, why not one leg spinner those enjoyed success later on. 

Leggies did good in ODIs and T20s. How will they know if they will do well in the tests beforehand. Jadeja had got 6 wickets in an innings in SA and he did well in the tests back home too. So they took him there.

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In the first two tests we had "Friends and Family "club playing ,with" boozed up " players after that famous wedding standing upfront in the slips how can one expect them grab one when there was plenty on offer..Why didnt they play a rahane  in the first place.I was quite content with our performance till yesterday but seeing this not so special Aus side(infact ordinary)beating the hell out of Sa clearly brought me down to desperation....that we missed an EPIC opportunity:afraid:

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5 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

In the first two tests we had "Friends and Family "club playing ,with" boozed up " players after that famous wedding standing upfront in the slips how can one expect them grab one when there was plenty on offer..Why didnt they play a rahane  in the first place.I was quite content with our performance till yesterday but seeing this not so special Aus side(infact ordinary)beating the hell out of Sa clearly brought me down to desperation....that we missed an EPIC opportunity:afraid:

Yes.Could have won the series. Dropping Bhuvi was senseless. Did they drop Philander just because the wicket was pacy?

Rahane would have been back in form from 2nd test itself rather than the 3rd test if he had played the 1st test.

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1 hour ago, nevada said:

Despite all the blunders, if the batters had somehow managed to not crap their pants in the 4th innings of the first test and chased down the 200 odd runs, the series could have been won. Still hurts that none of the batsmen could come up with an epic innings to drag the team over the finish line.

Just because it was 200, doesn't mean it was chasable target. 150-160 was max most teams would do on that pitch most of the time. 

 

We lost match in first inning when SA managed to score 70-80 runs extra and that proved to be the difference between 2 sides.

 

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1 minute ago, gattaca said:

This is all past can’t do much about that. Hopefully we learnt lessons and we move on. Need to include newer bowlers though. Can’t take Ishant he is waste of space.

Won't be surprised if Bhuvi is still dropped, Rahul and Rahane are ignored because we won ODIs and T20Is.

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3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Won't be surprised if Bhuvi is still dropped, Rahul and Rahane are ignored because we won ODIs and T20Is.

Dropping bhuvi in England that’s really stupid. To be honest Rahul hasn’t done much in South Africa. Rahane is a must.

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13 hours ago, lamellavig said:

More like a lack of player quality. Good tactics are good tactics, but a difference in player quality will make significant difference. If India are to be proud of their cricket team, they cannot rely on good tactics to make up a lack of talent.

 

Ensure that the players are good enough, such that there is a significant gap in talent. Then you can use the bulldozing tactics which Australia so admirably use, and with such great efficient. Look at Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc. They are gorging on stupendous bowling talent. These are 3 intellectuals at the very core of Australia's sporting philosophy. They create a gap in talent. They can hence bulldoze the South African lineup, on a pitch where they themselves score 350. 

 

When you look at the likes of Rohit, Vijay, Pujara etc. you can deduce that Indian cricket likes attractive, but not efficient batsmen. For instance look at David Warner, an opener. Very first test, and he notches a useful fifty. Indian batsmen need to be efficient, and the bowling, though it is on an upward incline, needs to be of higher class.

 

Sport is, first and foremost, about talent. 

You are talking about talent and effiency in the same breath. Rarely they are together like lara,sachin etc. When you said attractive batting while referring to Vijay etc, it is talent only no? Then in the last line you say sports is all about talent. That we have no. It is the efficiency and effectiveness which is lacking.

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1 hour ago, anish2tweet said:

Leggies did good in ODIs and T20s. How will they know if they will do well in the tests beforehand. Jadeja had got 6 wickets in an innings in SA and he did well in the tests back home too. So they took him there.

its still unclear if they would do well in tests in general,leggies will bowl a half volley one in a while a wide one here or there release pressure, they might not take any wickets of set batsmen but then SA were so bad against them it might have been different SA bats could not read them at all.

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India had opportunties, team selection is an excuse but the team failed in cricket fundamentals like dropping easy catches and brain fart runouts.

the current SA v Aushas only been 2 days, but Aus fielding has been top notch, no dropped catches whilst SA dropped at least two in their fielding innings. 

 

anyways I always go by the rankings, and for now India is the best team in Tests and ODIs, numero uno in both formats.

 

what ever happens in SA v Aus, it won’t be a decider of best Test team...remember both teams were hammered in India and England, and Aus being beaten black and blue by India, Pak, SL AND effing Bangla :hehe: 

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Australian batsmen have already bettered India's batting(all 3 tests) in this solo match ,that's what the difference is.of course India got far more tough pitches but indian batsmen were mentally shot ,even on this pitch I am sure saf would have got us bundled insid 250 twice 

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