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Selecting Kohli in 2008 cost me my job - Vengsarkar

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25 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

lifted from my response in parallel thread:

 

'Been shouting about this for years. Even cited supporting evidence from Amarnath but his testimony was unfairly discredited by CSK chamchas. No doubt chamchas will be out to discredit another legend of Indian cricket, in the name of protecting brand value. lol at Dhoni chamchas for trying to give Dhoni credit for bringing Kohli into the side and nurturing him.'

Firstly, :phehe: It's not good to shout at this age in first place. Evidence ? :cantstop: CBI officer under cover.. I believe what kohli said than some nobody like you. 

 

Tata :flute:

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7 hours ago, diga said:

Nothing wrong... its like we are upset with giving more chances to Rohit Sharma than Rahane

Rohit and rahane  are same period players.  Badri was older generation player compared to Kohli he was tried in his peak and was not good enough Sibley go.  It's pathetic to come back and say he played because Srinivas was a bcci official then lol.. did kambli play because pawar was a bcci official then.. Pathetic man. 

Edited by Vilander

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Just now, UnknownGenius said:

Vengsarkar seems bitter. Something else triggered hi

 

badri deserved every chance he got. Not because of CSK but he had performed for years running in domestic cricket. In fact, I'd say they discarded him too soon. SHould ahve been given more test chances

I remember he averaged close to 75 in a season he was not selected because  the fab 4 played in the same time. 

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34 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

Vengsarkar seems bitter. Something else triggered hi

 

badri deserved every chance he got. Not because of CSK but he had performed for years running in domestic cricket. In fact, I'd say they discarded him too soon. SHould ahve been given more test chances

I never felt that Badri would cut it at int'l level. Yes, he scored that 50 against Steyn but it was a very unconvincing knock. To me, Badri was a poor man's Pujara and had many of the same failings that Chepu exhibits overseas (but not in SC).

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4 hours ago, Vilander said:

for sure if its fair. found many skunks from Mumbai, would not bat an eyelid.

 

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

why is this xyzkar suddenly supporting Kolhi now :thinking: is it because he is in position of power, xyzkar wants to warm up to him the only way the xyzkar knows ? seems legit :biggrin:

 

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

corrected :biggrin:

 

besides no one agrees there is any lobby behind India cements...lolz

 

but you seem to agree there is a 'mumbai lobby' and it backs certain players they like and not others - i feel vindicated thanks.

You're clearly triggered.  Calm down "Vilander".  AFAIK, you're a bonda and got nothing to do with Srini Mama right?  Why so salty?:p:

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2 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

 

You're clearly triggered.  Calm down "Vilander".  AFAIK, you're a bonda and got nothing to do with Srini Mama right?  Why so salty?:p:

what is bonda man - is that some derog for kannadiga. ? i dont care man.  i just have an intense dislike for politicking piece of craps..from anywhere, it suboptimises a system. What does this statement from chewt$%akar has as an outcome, Kohli and BCCI officials feel wronged by Dhoni ? and do what ? What could be the possible outcome for Srini he is already out of the picture. Its just a news grabber for chew#$Akar here  he is getting back at Srini for back room politics ? why mess around with Dhoni as well ?

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Not surprising to be honest, MSD's nepotism was evident when he forced an unfit RP Singh to quit his holiday break and play the last test at The Oval in London. One of the greatest LOI captains of all time, but favoured nepotism.

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1 hour ago, Khota said:

These problems will not get fixed by themselves. The only true solution is to have three captains for 3 formats to dilute their influence.

Its a good idea... its always better to have more than 1 captain. 

 

11 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

@velu @Cricketics

plz merge the threads 

 

 

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This does not surprise Amarnath Also Lost His Job Going Against Dhoni.Even Kumble Lost His Job .Captain Has Too Much Power in Indian Cricket.

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Vengsarkar went on to accuse Srinivasan of costing him his job as the chairman of the selection committee and replacing him with former India and Tamil Nadu player Kris Srikkanth. However, at the time, Vengsarkar could have qualified for an extension of his term if he had given up a conflict of interest that arose from his being vice-president of the Mumbai Cricket Association.

Vengsarkar chose not to be the selector as he preferred being VP of MCA.

 

Is he trying to say that he was sacked because he favored Kohli?

 

Does he would have been removed from selectors panel even if he had resigned from VP position of MCA?

 

Or is he complaining about the conflict of interest clause thinking that it was introduced just to remove him from the post as he didn't favor Chhhhennneeei player? 

 

Does ICF feel that the conflict of interest clause shouldn't have been introduced and any person holding positions in state boards should be allowed to be a selector? How does that solve any issue?

 

All I see is usual Dhoni bashing rather than any concrete reply on what exactly shouldn't have happened in this case.

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5 minutes ago, CG said:

This does not surprise Amarnath Also Lost His Job Going Against Dhoni.Even Kumble Lost His Job .Captain Has Too Much Power in Indian Cricket.

How did he lose the job when chose not to continue with his job?

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2 hours ago, MechEng said:

Not surprising to be honest, MSD's nepotism was evident when he forced an unfit RP Singh to quit his holiday break and play the last test at The Oval in London. One of the greatest LOI captains of all time, but favoured nepotism.

Is RP Singh part of Rhiti sports or some CSK gang?

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'None of the selectors have told me where I stand' - Badrinath

 

Quote

S Badrinath, the Tamil Nadu captain, has said that it was a "crushing blow" to not be included in India's squad for the one-day series in Sri Lanka and the Champions Trophy in August.

 

The selectors announced the squads on Thursday and Badrinath, who was among the probables for the Champions Trophy, was not named in either of them. The selectors decided to give Virat Kohli, who led India to victory in the Under-19 World Cup earlier this year, a surprise call-up.

"Even today I was there in front of the TV, with my wife, waiting for the team to be announced. I was numb when they finished reading the names," Badrinath told the Times of India. "I'm lost, I don't know where to go from here. None of the selectors have ever told me where I actually stand. I would love to know where I am lacking so that I can work on that."

The closest that Badrinath came to national selection was when he was called up as a replacement for the injured Gautam Gambhir during the home one-day series against Australia in October 2007.

"For god's sake, allow me to fail," Badrinath said. "If I am unable to prove my worth at the international arena, I will never say anything and be a fringe player all my life. But I deserve one chance."

Badrinath scored 990 runs at an average of 66.00 in 12 matches during the 2007-08 first-class season, including a double-century against South Africa A. He also scored 203 runs at 40.60 during the recent Emerging Players tournament in Australia including scores of 95 and 83 not out.

"Forget Emerging Players Trophy, I have scored heavily during the A series against Australia and South Africa earlier and the only player to have done better than me in domestic competitions is Gautam Gambhir," Badrinath said. "When Manoj Tiwary went for the tri-series in Australia earlier this year, I was intrigued. Still, I tried to keep my cool. Now it's Virat Kohli. This is really going nowhere."

 

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30 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Vengsarkar chose not to be the selector as he preferred being VP of MCA.

 

Is he trying to say that he was sacked because he favored Kohli?

 

Does he would have been removed from selectors panel even if he had resigned from VP position of MCA?

 

Or is he complaining about the conflict of interest clause thinking that it was introduced just to remove him from the post as he didn't favor Chhhhennneeei player? 

 

Does ICF feel that the conflict of interest clause shouldn't have been introduced and any person holding positions in state boards should be allowed to be a selector? How does that solve any issue?

 

All I see is usual Dhoni bashing rather than any concrete reply on what exactly shouldn't have happened in this case.

was Srinivasan being treasurer of BCCI not conflict of interest, holding CSK ownership along with that and TNCA responsibility as well. How did it then only affect Vengsarkar and not Srini?

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3 hours ago, Vilander said:

what is bonda man - is that some derog for kannadiga. ? i dont care man.  i just have an intense dislike for politicking piece of craps..from anywhere, it suboptimises a system. What does this statement from chewt$%akar has as an outcome, Kohli and BCCI officials feel wronged by Dhoni ? and do what ? What could be the possible outcome for Srini he is already out of the picture. Its just a news grabber for chew#$Akar here  he is getting back at Srini for back room politics ? why mess around with Dhoni as well ?

yes, it is all hindsight now. Most captain would pick an experienced in-form domestic player than a 19 year old rookie. Dhoni did nothing wrong neither did Srini because Badrinath was top domestic performer at that time.

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22 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

was Srinivasan being treasurer of BCCI not conflict of interest, holding CSK ownership along with that and TNCA responsibility as well. How did it then only affect Vengsarkar and not Srini?

Conflict of interests?

 

Which interests are we talking about here? Just holding two positions doesn't mean it will result in conflict of interest.

 

Vengsarkar was a selector, a position where he had to decide 15 players from a set of 50+ players. 

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3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Conflict of interests?

 

Which interests are we talking about here? Just holding two positions doesn't mean it will result in conflict of interest.

 

Vengsarkar was a selector, a position where he had to decide 15 players from a set of 50+ players. 

Srini was BCCI post holder along with CAK owner and TNCA president. how would he not affect the selections? He certainly had a higher designation than a selector in BCCI.  he could certainly influence the selections.

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10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Srini was BCCI post holder along with CAK owner and TNCA president. how would he not affect the selections? He certainly had a higher designation than a selector in BCCI.  he could certainly influence the selections.

He was powerful, but he wasn't decision maker. Anyone can have influence just by holding 1 post or no post.

 

Unless there is direct responsibility or decisions of a person for certain post influenced by his other post, how can we call it conflict of interests?

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1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

'None of the selectors have told me where I stand' - Badrinath

 

 

Does any of the mumbai supporters who went all red eyed in the thread have a ducking response for this ? May be mr iknowpolitics 'kar' was the one being regional.

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19 hours ago, Number said:

 

 

Describing why the debate between Badrinath and Kohli occurred, the 61-year-old said, “I knew that they were keen on keeping S Badrinath in the team because he was a Chennai Super Kings player.

Yeah and he was just an average perfomer during that time. 

 

Season   Matches Inns Not Out Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
                       
2005-06 (India) 8 11 2 636 206* 70.66 2 3 6  
2006 (Australia) 2 3 1 184 70* 92.00 0 3 4  
2006-07 (India) 9 13 1 671 136   55.91 1 5 8  
2007-08 (India) 12 17 2 990 200* 66.00 4 3 4  
2007-08 (Kenya) 2 2 2 293 160*   2 0 1  
2007-08 (Zimbabwe) 2 2 1 165 103* 165.00 1 1 0  
2008-09 (India) 12 16 2 876 200   62.57 4 3 10  
2009-10 (India) 10 14 0 800 250   57.14 3 4 7  
2010-11 (India) 12 15 4 1226 195   111.45 5 5 16  
                       

 

5741 runs at avg of 73.6 in FC cricket. Number of tests played during this time - 2, scored 56 in 1 match where Steyn ripped apart Indian batting.

 

Nepotism can't be worse than this.

 

Let's ignore all this and ride the Dhoni bashing train.

 

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I guess ICF believes that since Badrinath was CSK player, he didn't deserve to play any match even after being best performer for 4-5 years. 

 

Those must have been good times, where nepotism and influence could get a proven perfomer couple of matches unlike current times where proven perfomers are dropped for flimsy reasons and failures are backed for being unknown reasons.

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Vengy thought since it is about Kohli he might have some backing for this bizarre, illogical claim. But sad to see him pitting Dhoni against Kohli as the later completely trusts Dhoni while throwing Badri under the bus.  Not sure if he wants Kohli to get rid of Dhoni. 

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56 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Yeah and he was just an average perfomer during that time. 

 

Season   Matches Inns Not Out Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
                       
2005-06 (India) 8 11 2 636 206* 70.66 2 3 6  
2006 (Australia) 2 3 1 184 70* 92.00 0 3 4  
2006-07 (India) 9 13 1 671 136   55.91 1 5 8  
2007-08 (India) 12 17 2 990 200* 66.00 4 3 4  
2007-08 (Kenya) 2 2 2 293 160*   2 0 1  
2007-08 (Zimbabwe) 2 2 1 165 103* 165.00 1 1 0  
2008-09 (India) 12 16 2 876 200   62.57 4 3 10  
2009-10 (India) 10 14 0 800 250   57.14 3 4 7  
2010-11 (India) 12 15 4 1226 195   111.45 5 5 16  
                       

 

5741 runs at avg of 73.6 in FC cricket. Number of tests played during this time - 2, scored 56 in 1 match where Steyn ripped apart Indian batting.

 

Nepotism can't be worse than this.

 

Let's ignore all this and ride the Dhoni bashing train.

 

But but he was from CSK:Cry:

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58 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

But but he was from CSK:Cry:

Thing is when everyone in Indian FC cricket is averaging 120+, just asking questions (and not forcing him to be selected) about someone who averaged 73 has to raise eyebrows.

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Most cricket debates get interesting when there is conflict between statistics and selectors/ captain's judgment.   I think this is right up there in those terms. 

 

Badri had great stats and was making runs for fun in the domestic.  However, I saw him play both his Tests against SA, and while he made that 56, I have to say he wasn't convincing.  For one he had that habit of jumping out and prodding at balls, looked most clumsy.  Granted that it was against peak Steyn & co, though.

 

Should he have been given more chances?  I would say, yes.  But at the same time, based on the little I saw, I would question whether he'd set the cricket world on fire.

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What was the need for this statement when rarely u see a captain n x-captain having great relationship in Indian cricket. Limelight missing thi....

Their will always be debate if x is better or y and noone knws who will turn out to be better. I myself never thought kohli will become this beast....its logical any capatin will trust a player who he has seen rather the unseen one and then badri had great FC stats.

Same ICF is crying why mayank is not selected after such a FC season. 

 

What matters is when dhoni knew he is my key player he backed him, selectors wanted to drop kohli from 3rd test and sehwag has made open statement how he n dhoni saved kohli's place. IF i remeber amarnath was the on tour selector and it was his idea to drop kohli ......and then he wanted to make the same guy captain in Odi series. 

 

N good vengsarkar went away he started to back mumbai player way more then needed, i remeber a certain jaffer getting many games then he deserved. 

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Dilip was one of the best selectors we had from last 20 years....Wonderful talents were noticed and given a go at that time....

His selection was not about numbers and statistics...

He looked at personalities....

Anyone who watched the recent Duleep trophy knows that KK Ahmed has better chance to succeed than S. Kaul......But i am sure, Kaul will be given a go ...as he is in line

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11 hours ago, Vilander said:

what is bonda man - is that some derog for kannadiga. ? i dont care man.  i just have an intense dislike for politicking piece of craps..from anywhere, it suboptimises a system. What does this statement from chewt$%akar has as an outcome, Kohli and BCCI officials feel wronged by Dhoni ? and do what ? What could be the possible outcome for Srini he is already out of the picture. Its just a news grabber for chew#$Akar here  he is getting back at Srini for back room politics ? why mess around with Dhoni as well ?

If you have a problem for politics, why are you defending Srini Mama interfering with selection?  Its not even about the merits of a Kohli vs Badri, who was by your own admission, a limited player.  Its about Srini pushing for selection of a particular player, and making changes to the selection committee when he didn't get what he wanted.  That my friend, is politicking of the lowest order.  Which you claim to "dislike" but are in the odd position of defending loudly on this thread.

 

And I'm not of Marathi background, but your constant usage of 'kar' as some kind of epithet is not on.   You are better than that.  Let's keep the standards of the forum higher.   

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27 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

Dilip was one of the best selectors we had from last 20 years....Wonderful talents were noticed and given a go at that time....

His selection was not about numbers and statistics...

He looked at personalities....

Anyone who watched the recent Duleep trophy knows that KK Ahmed has better chance to succeed than S. Kaul......But i am sure, Kaul will be given a go ...as he is in line

IIRC, I read somewhere that Vengy was instrumental in pushing for a young Sachin Tendulkar to get opportunities with the Mumbai Ranji team as well.  

 

That's the difference between an MSK Prasad and a Vengy - former is dead set focused on making sure that "fair treatment" is given to Ranji stats accumulators and older players.  Which by itself is not a terrible approach.  

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On a side note, I think not many chief selectors have traveled to watch emerging players tournament to get a better look on player's temperament, technique and playing style.

Edited by Number

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It is all about thinking, giving a upcoming and talented youngster over a proven domestic performer is one way of thinking and other way of thinking is letting youngster play one of two seasons on domestic cricket then selecting him while rewarding top performers in domestic cricket.Aussies did later especially when they were at their strongest.

 

There are downsides and upsides to both, Pant is prime example he was given debut a season too late in my book. Guys like Robin Singh who resurrected his career late . But I always prefer giving talented youngster a chance before a proven domestic performer.

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

If you have a problem for politics, why are you defending Srini Mama interfering with selection?  Its not even about the merits of a Kohli vs Badri, who was by your own admission, a limited player.  Its about Srini pushing for selection of a particular player, and making changes to the selection committee when he didn't get what he wanted.  That my friend, is politicking of the lowest order.  Which you claim to "dislike" but are in the odd position of defending loudly on this thread.

 

And I'm not of Marathi background, but your constant usage of 'kar' as some kind of epithet is not on.   You are better than that.  Let's keep the standards of the forum higher.   

you should read my comments again, Srini is not being defended here. if Badri was averaging 75 in FC when he got selected and Kohli won the u19 world cup, is Dhoni to be blamed for selecting Badri over Kohli ? at that point in time ?

Do you think enabling a deserving player being selected is nepotism ? i say vengsarkar that gave this interview had malicious intentions when he kept Badri out of the 11. He was let go fairly and incidentally on different grounds,but now he just latched on to srini hate bandwagon to look like a hero. He has even gone to the extent of attempting to plant hate between Kohli/Dhoni for some personal gain. Calling Badri's selection based on his involvement in CSK and not based on his 75 avg in Indian FC gives a clear picture of how incompetent vengsarkar was as a selector and how malicious his mindset is, no wonder he lost that job may be he was very good with mumbai cricket so kept that job.

Anyways i dont think Srini was all bad to Indian cricket, atleast not as much as the other b# sashank manohar. Makes one wonder why do these Ch#$5s do all they do even if they have to sellout India, for position power ? how pathetic. Mumbai cricket community is not ok with any other region or state being at the helm of cricket they would create all this controversy even after the fact, its pretty evident a good weasel ecosystem, some of them wont mind harming India for personal gains.

Edited by Vilander

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

a limited player

how was he a limited player averaging 75 in FC ? he was not found not to add value to Indian side and let go thats not to say he was not selected fairly, hell he even had a good inning in his first test. Some would say he was treated harshly. This is what i am point out ,  vengkar does not mind throwing Badri under the bus never looking at his record in that point in time. 

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4 hours ago, NameGoesHere said:

Most cricket debates get interesting when there is conflict between statistics and selectors/ captain's judgment.   I think this is right up there in those terms. 

 

Badri had great stats and was making runs for fun in the domestic.  However, I saw him play both his Tests against SA, and while he made that 56, I have to say he wasn't convincing.  For one he had that habit of jumping out and prodding at balls, looked most clumsy.  Granted that it was against peak Steyn & co, though.

 

Should he have been given more chances?  I would say, yes.  But at the same time, based on the little I saw, I would question whether he'd set the cricket world on fire.

He was selected fairly  and probably did ok to play a few more tests at the least, judgement call and did not play..well too bad for him but happens. 

 

But is it good enough to call his selection to the 11 based on CSK ? be straightforward.

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14 minutes ago, Vilander said:

He was selected fairly  and probably did ok to play a few more tests at the least, judgement call and did not play..well too bad for him but happens. 

 

But is it good enough to call his selection to the 11 based on CSK ? be straightforward.

Generally my eyes glaze over at IPL based debates.  Frankly I even missed this part of the argument until you brought it up

 

One, I really don't really know (or care), because, Two, his stats clearly suggest he deserved a call up.

 

Edit: And if memory serves right I was eager to see him play because of reports of his outstanding domestic performances.

Edited by NameGoesHere

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27 minutes ago, Vilander said:

how was he a limited player averaging 75 in FC ? he was not found not to add value to Indian side and let go thats not to say he was not selected fairly, hell he even had a good inning in his first test. Some would say he was treated harshly. This is what i am point out ,  vengkar does not mind throwing Badri under the bus never looking at his record in that point in time. 

 

35 minutes ago, Vilander said:

you should read my comments again, Srini is not being defended here. if Badri was averaging 75 in FC when he got selected and Kohli won the u19 world cup, is Dhoni to be blamed for selecting Badri over Kohli ? at that point in time ?

Do you think enabling a deserving player being selected is nepotism ? i say vengsarkar that gave this interview had malicious intentions when he kept Badri out of the 11. He was let go fairly and incidentally on different grounds,but now he just latched on to srini hate bandwagon to look like a hero. He has even gone to the extent of attempting to plant hate between Kohli/Dhoni for some personal gain. Calling Badri's selection based on his involvement in CSK and not based on his 75 avg in Indian FC gives a clear picture of how incompetent vengsarkar was as a selector and how malicious his mindset is, no wonder he lost that job may be he was very good with mumbai cricket so kept that job.

Anyways i dont think Srini was all bad to Indian cricket, atleast not as much as the other b# sashank manohar. Makes one wonder why do these Ch#$5s do all they do even if they have to sellout India, for position power ? how pathetic. Mumbai cricket community is not ok with any other region or state being at the helm of cricket they would create all this controversy even after the fact, its pretty evident a good weasel ecosystem, some of them wont mind harming India for personal gains.

 

The question at hand is not even the merits of Kohli or Badri.  The question is, why should a BCCI official interfere in team selection, and replace selectors if he doesn't like the team selected?   

 

Everybody trumpeting domestic stats while making the case for Badri - there is a reason why Priyank Panchal with his domestic stats, is not rated higher than a Prithvi Shaw.  If selectors have to simply pick the players with the best stats, that's what they would do all the time.  But they don't.  And with good reason. 

 

And again, bottomline - issue is not about Badri or Kohli.  Its about a blatant violation by Srini in interfering in selection.  That is simply black and white.  And indefensible.   Attempting to indulge in whataboutism by dragging traitors like Manohar is Lahori logic.   You start by saying not defending Srini, and then go on to do exactly that.  I think you need to make up your mind on which one of those 2 you are trying to do here.

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18 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

 

The question at hand is not even the merits of Kohli or Badri.  The question is, why should a BCCI official interfere in team selection, and replace selectors if he doesn't like the team selected?   

 

Everybody trumpeting domestic stats while making the case for Badri - there is a reason why Priyank Panchal with his domestic stats, is not rated higher than a Prithvi Shaw.  If selectors have to simply pick the players with the best stats, that's what they would do all the time.  But they don't.  And with good reason. 

 

And again, bottomline - issue is not about Badri or Kohli.  Its about a blatant violation by Srini in interfering in selection.  That is simply black and white.  And indefensible.   Attempting to indulge in whataboutism by dragging traitors like Manohar is Lahori logic.   You start by saying not defending Srini, and then go on to do exactly that.  I think you need to make up your mind on which one of those 2 you are trying to do here.

what is needed is you need to make up your mind about defending vengsarkar and his weaseling ways here. its not about badri, not about Kohli not about Dhoni not about srini..its definitely about che@#$ vengsarkar for sure.

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