Should Bollywood continue to engage with Pakistani artistes?

[Gollum]

9 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

my gawd , thought at least you wouldn't be confused about this .

REMEMBER BY PAKISTANI STANDARDS JINNAH AND ZULFIKAR ALI BHUTTO WERE LIBERALS AS IS IMRAN KHAN  .now whenever you feel confused remember it.

Nah I wasn't confused about this, I have always know the nature of these guys. I was talking about other peaceniks on this forum who refuse to see the light and who hide behind excuses. This post by @Singh bling will be very hard for them to negate in the context of this thread. 

[MechEng]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

 

@MechEng How can you not hate these hypocrites?

 

16 hours ago, Vilander said:

An innocent young teen jai parkash from darro sindh was gang raped and video shared in social media by ppp district secretary this is current week news. Almost monthly rape murder of hindu girls and even children lol you dont have any hostility against them you should read more news man. Afridi scum comes and preaches what india should do lol.

 

5 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

yeah lets get wiped out slowly but let's not hate anyone.

 

You guys didn't get me. I won't display hatred towards them but also I'm not pro Pakistan either, that country is in a deep mess to the point that the government is at the mercy of the army forget the general population, I fear it has reached the point of no return.  Spreading hate online is actually not going to alleviate the big problem, we must strive for a constructive objective solution to this and hopefully come up with as soon as possible.

 

I see China as being an advantage for us here, with CPEC there will be more jobs, hence no time to sit idle and get brainwashed by mullahs. And when China slowly gains the administrative power in Pakistan, they will muscle out any terror elements in that country without giving a warning.

Edited April 5, 2018 by MechEng

[Vilander]

42 minutes ago, MechEng said:

we must strive for a constructive objective solution to this and hopefully come up with as soon as possible.

What is it? And is there any of it possible with out further violence.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Mahira may marry Ranbir.

[panther]

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

Wah re wah, after Hamza Abbasi and Shaan Shahid, some new liberal secular tolerant faces from Lollywood. 

Look at the trailer, raasta jihad aur manzil shahadat....what a peaceful message Mashallah, so much aman ki asha here. While Sallu bhai makes a movie glorifying ISI and Pak Army, whattay return gift from our wonderful neighbors. The hero Mohammad Rana has worked in Bollywood movies previously opposite the likes of Raveena Tandon, Manisha Koirala, Seema Biswas, Soni Razdan and Mahima Chaudhry, so what if he spouts jihad crap in a movie focusing on Kashmir, he must be liberal secular naah? The buddha Nadeem Baig is known as Pakistani Amitabh Bachchan, the biggest icon of their cinema...he too has worked with Bollywood stars in the past. The cinematographer is the same person from the 2014 Hrithik-Katrina starrer Bang Bang. What's more the singers for this jihad movie include Shafqat Amanat Ali and Rahat Fatah Ali Khan. Both these singers have earned crores in India, the former has even performed in my college fest 7-8 years back. If these 2 are really pro peace and liberal, why not refuse the offer to lend their voice in this movie?

 

I am telling you, these Mahira Khans and Fawad Khans are closet anti India extremists just like that ghazal singer Ghulam Ali. They are wearing a mask so that they can make money here. They spend all their time working with the Shaans and Abbasis in Lollywood, suddenly in Bollywood they become angels or what? Not once have they condemned any terror attack on Indian soil, they maintain a strategic silence because they know these bloody Indians are fools ruled by a moronic dispensation. 

 

@Alam_dar who in their right mind glorifies jihad in a movie in today's time? That too these guys have worked in Bollywood before, have had Indian colleagues and spent time in Mumbai for a significant amount of time. I am also not convinced Sufism is tolerant, reading about the Sufi saints of Delhi Sultanate I couldn't help but notice their propensity to incite violence against infidels. Even the Chechen jihad groups are self proclaimed sufis. 

 

@sandeep Forget Abbasi and Shaan, what about this? 

 

@MechEng How can you not hate these hypocrites?

 

@Singh bling What a revelation by you man , with your one post you have exposed these peaceniks on ICF,  kudos on your find. You have opened many eyes with your post.

Sufis being peaceful is some modern liberal bullshit by donkeys, all the great Kings that invaded India were sufis, wahabies didnt even exist back than lol.

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Mahira may marry Ranbir.

isnt she already married with kids ? 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

sociopolitical influence .even isreal ,iran has more influence than us

what exactly is this influence ? any factual basis to what you said ?

[Gollum]

Not one poster has voted yes. Tells you something, doesn't it? Pity Modi doesn't share our sentiment.

[Yoda-esque]

Most if bollywoods old money has roots in Pak .They share the same culture and bhaichara..difficult to change it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Alam_dar]

On 05/04/2018 at 3:37 PM, Gollum said:

Wah re wah, after Hamza Abbasi and Shaan Shahid, some new liberal secular tolerant faces from Lollywood. 

Look at the trailer, raasta jihad aur manzil shahadat....what a peaceful message Mashallah, so much aman ki asha here. While Sallu bhai makes a movie glorifying ISI and Pak Army, whattay return gift from our wonderful neighbors. The hero Mohammad Rana has worked in Bollywood movies previously opposite the likes of Raveena Tandon, Manisha Koirala, Seema Biswas, Soni Razdan and Mahima Chaudhry, so what if he spouts jihad crap in a movie focusing on Kashmir, he must be liberal secular naah? The buddha Nadeem Baig is known as Pakistani Amitabh Bachchan, the biggest icon of their cinema...he too has worked with Bollywood stars in the past. The cinematographer is the same person from the 2014 Hrithik-Katrina starrer Bang Bang. What's more the singers for this jihad movie include Shafqat Amanat Ali and Rahat Fatah Ali Khan. Both these singers have earned crores in India, the former has even performed in my college fest 7-8 years back. If these 2 are really pro peace and liberal, why not refuse the offer to lend their voice in this movie?

 

I am telling you, these Mahira Khans and Fawad Khans are closet anti India extremists just like that ghazal singer Ghulam Ali. They are wearing a mask so that they can make money here. They spend all their time working with the Shaans and Abbasis in Lollywood, suddenly in Bollywood they become angels or what? Not once have they condemned any terror attack on Indian soil, they maintain a strategic silence because they know these bloody Indians are fools ruled by a moronic dispensation. 

 

@Alam_dar who in their right mind glorifies jihad in a movie in today's time? That too these guys have worked in Bollywood before, have had Indian colleagues and spent time in Mumbai for a significant amount of time. I am also not convinced Sufism is tolerant, reading about the Sufi saints of Delhi Sultanate I couldn't help but notice their propensity to incite violence against infidels. Even the Chechen jihad groups are self proclaimed sufis. 

 

@sandeep Forget Abbasi and Shaan, what about this? 

 

@MechEng How can you not hate these hypocrites?

 

@Singh bling What a revelation by you man , with your one post you have exposed these peaceniks on ICF,  kudos on your find. You have opened many eyes with your post.

 

Money. 

If Pakistani artists want to make easy money in Pakistan, then they could make it by "selling" the "nationalism", and "religion" and hatred against India. 

It is same like many Indian artists too make such movies against Pakistan and Kashmir where they sell the nationalism and hatred against Pakistan. 

Despite this trend, there is also an opposite trend among the actors, where they want to have good relations between India and Pakistan and seizing of the hostilities. 

 

Please remember, nothing is 100% perfect. 

 

And there are thousands of Sufies with different trends. In Pakistan, no one know about the Sufies who served the Mughals. They know Sindhi sufies and Lal Shehbaz Qalander and Data Sahib etc. who got good relations with all including Hindus. 

 

Please also note, although Wahabiism was not present in the earlier centuries in Indian Sub-Continent, but it was present in Arab and real Islamic Teachings indeed always supported the Wahabiism. Therefore, Indian Sunni Muslims were divided into two sects i.e. Barailvies and Deobandies. 

 

Barailvies were more closer to the Sufi teachings as compared to Islamic teachings. 

While Deobandies were closer to the Islamic teachings (i.e. present Wahabiism), although they also respected the sufies little bit. 

There is little difference between the Deobandies and the Wahabies. 

 

Thus, sufiism may not be 100% perfect, but still it got more than 50% love teachings and humanity did play a role. 

 

 

[maniac]

Sufism is nothing but just incorporating some tolerant qualities from Hinduism,Buddhism and other tolerant religions to make Islam a little attractive.

 

Sufis in India are/were  historically for the most part  nothing but spies, You could say more like a marketing or r and D division.

 

There is nothing original, the so called Sufi music or mysticism have all been copied from either the Kabbalah,Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

Bollywood these days is just an extended branch of this marketing and R and D department

[riya]

On 4/5/2018 at 3:51 PM, Vilander said:

isnt she already married with kids ? 

Every relationship of Ranbir is for time pass...noway going to marry mahira...

Edited April 8, 2018 by riya

[MechEng]

On 4/6/2018 at 11:08 PM, Alam_dar said:

 

Money. 

If Pakistani artists want to make easy money in Pakistan, then they could make it by "selling" the "nationalism", and "religion" and hatred against India. 

It is same like many Indian artists too make such movies against Pakistan and Kashmir where they sell the nationalism and hatred against Pakistan. 

Despite this trend, there is also an opposite trend among the actors, where they want to have good relations between India and Pakistan and seizing of the hostilities. 

 

Please remember, nothing is 100% perfect. 

 

And there are thousands of Sufies with different trends. In Pakistan, no one know about the Sufies who served the Mughals. They know Sindhi sufies and Lal Shehbaz Qalander and Data Sahib etc. who got good relations with all including Hindus. 

 

Please also note, although Wahabiism was not present in the earlier centuries in Indian Sub-Continent, but it was present in Arab and real Islamic Teachings indeed always supported the Wahabiism. Therefore, Indian Sunni Muslims were divided into two sects i.e. Barailvies and Deobandies. 

 

Barailvies were more closer to the Sufi teachings as compared to Islamic teachings. 

While Deobandies were closer to the Islamic teachings (i.e. present Wahabiism), although they also respected the sufies little bit. 

There is little difference between the Deobandies and the Wahabies. 

 

Thus, sufiism may not be 100% perfect, but still it got more than 50% love teachings and humanity did play a role. 

 

 

No, it's pretty obvious that you are not following bollywood. Have you watched PK? That movie gives a picture how immoral bollywood is. And the fact that the movie made a great business is the proof of the fact that Indians can be too 'open minded' or 'tolerant' for their own good.

Edited April 8, 2018 by MechEng

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Sufism is nothing but just incorporating some tolerant qualities from Hinduism,Buddhism and other tolerant religions to make Islam a little attractive.

Sufis in India are/were  historically for the most part  nothing but spies, You could say more like a marketing or r and D division.

There is nothing original, the so called Sufi music or mysticism have all been copied from either the Kabbalah,Hinduism and Buddhism.

Bollywood these days is just an extended branch of this marketing and R and D department

Everything about your post is factually incorrect. Sufism was practiced in the days of the sahabah too.

Most Sufi orders in India are of Central Asian/Eastern Afghan origins.

The Chistis, for instance, are originally from the Herat province. 

To cut a long story short, there is no one Sufi strand of belief. Some orders basically call for renunciation and devotion to Allah. Some call for renunciation and devotion (not even specifically to Allah).

 

While it is true that the Sufis picked up a lot of existing cultural/religious habits of the local populace, it is untrue that the Sufi music is copied.

Aamir Khusrow, the poet, was also the inventor of the tabla and was a closet (fear of persecution by the Orthodox Delhi Sultans, or at least that was the case initially) Sufi and is credited with starting the Qawwali. He did borrow from Carnatic music, but there is a lot of originality in the music/ instruments and how they are played in tandem.

 

In fact this is probably why Hindustani music and Carnatic music today are two different streams of classical music in India. The former is an amalgamation of many styles, while the latter is relatively 'pure'. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Mariyam

[Mariyam]

@Alam_dar How are Bareilvis closer to sufi teachings? Do you say this only the basis of the fact that the Bareilvis do pray at mazhars? 

 

Neither the Deobandis, nor the Bareilvis have much in common with the Sufi orders. At least not today.

[Alam_dar]

13 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@Alam_dar How are Bareilvis closer to sufi teachings? Do you say this only the basis of the fact that the Bareilvis do pray at mazhars? 

 

Neither the Deobandis, nor the Bareilvis have much in common with the Sufi orders. At least not today.

Barailvies seem to respect the Sufies much more than Deobandies, who seem to be much more closer to present day Wahabies. 

 

[Alam_dar]

14 hours ago, MechEng said:

No, it's pretty obvious that you are not following bollywood. Have you watched PK? That movie gives a picture how immoral bollywood is. And the fact that the movie made a great business is the proof of the fact that Indians can be too 'open minded' or 'tolerant' for their own good.

Would you please tell me what was wrong with the movie PK?

I watched it, enjoyed it and found nothing wrong in it. Therefore I wonder why people complaint against PK. 

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Would you please tell me what was wrong with the movie PK?

I watched it, enjoyed it and found nothing wrong in it. Therefore I wonder why people complaint against PK. 

Unnecessary targeting of one religion while Islam/Christianity were let off rather mildly. While exposing fraud babas was legit, making Shivji run around in a bathroom like a joker or mocking idol worship and Hindu pilgrimages was uncalled for, movies could have focused more on how people misuse religion for personal gains rather than mocking the faith. Other religions have been let off very lightly but in case of Hinduism even the smallest issue has been blown out of proportion, sorry I have visited 100s of temples in my youth and never have my chappals/shoes ever been stolen, likewise praying to different Gods isn't dialing wrong number, this is a frontal attack on my faith. I am short of time to write a long detailed post but the article here ( https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment/sorry-aamir-despite-all-the-denials-pk-has-an-anti-hindu-undertone-2041285.html) reflects why many Hindus feel PK has anti Hindu tone. 

 

Worst part is PK came in a time where 3 other movies targeting Sikhism, Christianity and Islam were released but the censor board (under Leela Samson) ordered many cuts in those 3 movies while PK was left unscathed in spite of recommendations by many Hindu scholars.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Gollum

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Unnecessary targeting of one religion while Islam/Christianity were let off rather mildly. While exposing fraud babas was legit, making Shivji run around in a bathroom like a joker or mocking idol worship and Hindu pilgrimages was uncalled for, movies could have focused more on how people misuse religion for personal gains rather than mocking the faith. Other religions have been let off very lightly but in case of Hinduism even the smallest issue has been blown out of proportion, sorry I have visited 100s of temples in my youth and never have my chappals/shoes ever been stolen, likewise praying to different Gods isn't dialing wrong number, this is a frontal attack on my faith. I am short of time to write a long detailed post but the article here ( https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment/sorry-aamir-despite-all-the-denials-pk-has-an-anti-hindu-undertone-2041285.html) reflects why many Hindus feel PK has anti Hindu tone. 

 

Worst part is PK came in a time where 3 other movies targeting Sikhism, Christianity and Islam were released but the censor board (under Leela Samson) ordered many cuts in those 3 movies while PK was left unscathed in spite of recommendations by many Hindu scholars.

 

I have read the whole article.

You have your own opinion which I respect. But I have different view of the things. 

 

1st Criticism: PK movie criticized not only the Hindu Gurus but also the Hindu deities

In my opinion, every one has full right to "preach" one's religion and glorify one's deities. But at the same time, everyone should also have the full right to "criticize" the religion and deities of others. We should not prohibit this criticism in name of "respect" and "blasphemy". 

 

Hindus have got full right to preach their religion and glorify their deities. They show in films their "personal experiences" where they "prayed" to their deities and then "miracles" happened where deities helped them from the difficult positions. 

 

But I am an atheist. My "experience" is totally different. I prayed to the deities of every religion, but in my experience I always got the wrong number. Why am I then not allowed to put my personal experience in form of film? 

 

I am tolerant enough to watch Hindu friends to show and share their personal experiences in form of films. But why then my Hindu friends are not tolerant enough and let me share my wrong number story? 

 

 

2nd Criticism: Hindu gods were heavily criticized as compared to Muslim Allah or Christian God

I find it is very unfair criticism. There is only 2 hours film and "practically" it is not possible to criticize every religion like hindu, muslims, sikhs, buddhists, christians, jews equally. 

Therefore, it is enough to criticize one of them and convey the message which is equal for all that all the religions and their deities are the wrong numbers. 

 

From practical point of view, you could see that Indian Films are showing 95% Hindu Religion and their deities and their worship and their miracles. It would be unjust then to ask the Indian Film industry to show "Equal" amount of time all the other religions and their deities and their worshipping etc. 

 

So, if 95% Indian films contain preaching of Hindu religion and their deities, what is then wrong if PK has made 95% criticism of Hindi Religion? 

 

 

3rd Criticism:  Amir Khan was politically active against BJP

Again it is a non issue. 

Every artist has the right to his own political views. 

There are dozens of artists in Indian film industry who support BJP. What there personal political views have to do with the film industry?

 

 

4rth Criticism: Showing love between Pakistani Muslim boy and Indian Hindu Girl was wrong

Your mentioned article criticized that the film maker could have showed Spanish/UK/African Boy with love with Indian girl, but why Pakistan which is the centre of Jihadi activities. 

Again this criticism is not according to the merit. 

 

Love knows no boundaries and no religion. In practice too, even there are more chances of Pakistani Muslim boy indulging in love with Indian Hindu girl due to the "same Culture". 

 

In eyes of us (the Secular Liberals), LOVE is sacred and above all the religions and nationalities. We do support love, and PK movies is giving the same message to the younger generation of India and Pakistan i.e. to break all the walls of religion/nationality when it comes to the Love. 

 

The article criticized PK film that it didn't show the reality that Muslims force girls to change their religion. Then simple answer is this that you could make dozens of more movies showing people this danger and there will be no criticism upon it from the Secular Liberals. 

 

Now situation is this that Muslims (especially Pakistani Muslims) were abusing PK film that it sends wrong message to Muslim boys who are absolutely not allowed to fell in love with Hindu girls. 

 

Conclusion:

=======

You may have your own opinion regarding these issues in PK, but as far as I am concerned, PK movie has represented my views fully and I am also proud of my views. 

I am totally tolerant if you want to preach your religion, but please you should also show tolerance when I want to share my personal experiences regarding the religions. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Alam_dar

[MechEng]

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I have read the whole article.

You have your own opinion which I respect. But I have different view of the things. 

 

1st Criticism: PK movie criticized not only the Hindu Gurus but also the Hindu deities

In my opinion, every one has full right to "preach" one's religion and glorify one's deities. But at the same time, everyone should also have the full right to "criticize" the religion and deities of others. We should not prohibit this criticism in name of "respect" and "blasphemy". 

 

Hindus have got full right to preach their religion and glorify their deities. They show in films their "personal experiences" where they "prayed" to their deities and then "miracles" happened where deities helped them from the difficult positions. 

 

But I am an atheist. My "experience" is totally different. I prayed to the deities of every religion, but in my experience I always got the wrong number. Why am I then not allowed to put my personal experience in form of film? 

 

I am tolerant enough to watch Hindu friends to show and share their personal experiences in form of films. But why then my Hindu friends are not tolerant enough and let me share my wrong number story? 

 

 

2nd Criticism: Hindu gods were heavily criticized as compared to Muslim Allah or Christian God

I find it is very unfair criticism. There is only 2 hours film and "practically" it is not possible to criticize every religion like hindu, muslims, sikhs, buddhists, christians, jews equally. 

Therefore, it is enough to criticize one of them and convey the message which is equal for all that all the religions and their deities are the wrong numbers. 

 

From practical point of view, you could see that Indian Films are showing 95% Hindu Religion and their deities and their worship and their miracles. It would be unjust then to ask the Indian Film industry to show "Equal" amount of time all the other religions and their deities and their worshipping etc. 

 

So, if 95% Indian films contain preaching of Hindu religion and their deities, what is then wrong if PK has made 95% criticism of Hindi Religion? 

 

 

3rd Criticism:  Amir Khan was politically active against BJP

Again it is a non issue. 

Every artist has the right to his own political views. 

There are dozens of artists in Indian film industry who support BJP. What there personal political views have to do with the film industry?

 

 

4rth Criticism: Showing love between Pakistani Muslim boy and Indian Hindu Girl was wrong

Your mentioned article criticized that the film maker could have showed Spanish/UK/African Boy with love with Indian girl, but why Pakistan which is the centre of Jihadi activities. 

Again this criticism is not according to the merit. 

 

Love knows no boundaries and no religion. In practice too, even there are more chances of Pakistani Muslim boy indulging in love with Indian Hindu girl due to the "same Culture". 

 

In eyes of us (the Secular Liberals), LOVE is sacred and above all the religions and nationalities. We do support love, and PK movies is giving the same message to the younger generation of India and Pakistan i.e. to break all the walls of religion/nationality when it comes to the Love. 

 

The article criticized PK film that it didn't show the reality that Muslims force girls to change their religion. Then simple answer is this that you could make dozens of more movies showing people this danger and there will be no criticism upon it from the Secular Liberals. 

 

Now situation is this that Muslims (especially Pakistani Muslims) were abusing PK film that it sends wrong message to Muslim boys who are absolutely not allowed to fell in love with Hindu girls. 

 

Conclusion:

=======

You may have your own opinion regarding these issues in PK, but as far as I am concerned, PK movie has represented my views fully and I am also proud of my views. 

I am totally tolerant if you want to preach your religion, but please you should also show tolerance when I want to share my personal experiences regarding the religions. 

You're living in a utopian world. Reality is not so pretty.