Are Ramayan and Mahabharata real?

[rkt.india]

Quote

 

Archaeological studies reveal that the first human inhabitation happened in Sri Lanka around 1,750,000 years ago and it’s been proved that the bridge’s age dates back to the same equivalent. To top it, the dates mentioned in the text of Valmiki matches with that of primitive age as well.

 

https://www.quora.com/Are-Ramayan-and-Mahabharata-real

 

need to discuss @Muloghonto @Gollum@zen @Tibarn

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

https://www.quora.com/Are-Ramayan-and-Mahabharata-real

 

need to discuss @Muloghonto @Gollum@zen @Tibarn

Not human. 

Species homo sapiens is roughly 200-500K years old. Previously extant species that shared a lot of overlap with species homo sapien's existence, go back to 2-3 million years.

They are probably talking of Homo erectus. Not homo sapiens. 

[zen]

There are a lot of unknown unknowns (could be knowns for many). The belief that Ramayana and Mahabharata are real is tied with the belief that God exists as Rama and Krishna are considered to be avatars of Lord Vishnu. If you believe that God exists, then the answer is easy and vice versa. 

 

In the past, due to lack of proper scientific knowledge, difficult to explain concepts were attributed to miracles. Now science has (or at least tries to explain) an explanation for many of those miracles. Bible, iirc, says the universe was created by God. Scientist try to explain that through the Big Bang Theory (and imply that it was not a miracle). But could God not use the Big Bang to create universe? There is usually science used to do these “miracles”. 

 

 

The concept of God, and how many folks have hijacked the religion to use it for their benefits should not be confused. It would be similar to suggesting that because of people who made nukes, Science is bad. If we remove this confusion, our willingness to open up to various possibilities increases. 

 

What is also creating doubts is how these books are written. For e.g. Hanuman Dada is said to have brought a hill from India to SL. In reality, he could have just acquired some herbs or even brought the “tea” to Ceylon. Vaanar may not imply monkeys literally but Vaa (air) and Nar (male) to mean people who probably have something to do with air, mountains, etc. The area around Bangalore is hilly.

 

 

As science progresses, it will eventually prove that God exists. Unlike what many think there is no conflict b/w science and religion. God is the greatest scientist.

 

Conflict is b/w those who use religion for their benefit and those who confuse these folks with religion and try to fight them with science. Let these guys fight. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

There are a lot of unknown unknowns (could be knowns for many). The belief that Ramayana and Mahabharata are real is tied with the belief that God exists as Rama and Krishna are considered to be avatars of Lord Vishnu. If you believe that God exists, then the answer is easy and vice versa. 

 

In the past, due to lack of proper scientific knowledge, difficult to explain concepts were attributed to miracles. Now science has (or at least tries to explain) an explanation for many of those miracles. Bible, iirc, says the universe was created by God. Scientist try to explain that through the Big Bang Theory (and imply that it was not a miracle). But could God not use the Big Bang to create universe? There is usually science used to do these “miracles”. 

 

 

The concept of God, and how many folks have hijacked the religion to use it for their benefits should not be confused. It would be similar to suggesting that because of people who made nukes, Science is bad. If we remove this confusion, our willingness to open up to various possibilities increases. 

 

What is also creating doubts is how these books are written. For e.g. Hanuman Dada is said to have brought a hill from India to SL. In reality, he could have just acquired some herbs or even brought the “tea” to Ceylon. Vaanar may not imply monkeys literally but Vaa (air) and Nar (male) to mean people who probably have something to do with air, mountains, etc. The area around Bangalore is hilly.

 

 

As science progresses, it will eventually prove that God exists. Unlike what many think there is no conflict b/w science and religion. God is the greatest scientist.

 

Conflict is b/w those who use religion for their benefit and those who confuse these folks with religion and try to fight them with science. Let these guys fight. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science is actually slowly trending towards an eternal universe, no creator model. Which actually makes a lot more sense. 

[surajmal]

Yes. very real.

[Muloghonto]

As for the OP- most probably just a mish-mash of some history, mostly legends, fantasy and God-myth building. Other religions have their epic stories too- mostly non-historical. 

[Gollum]

IMO Mahabharat and Ramayan are great stories, literature of the highest quality and hence worthy of respect. But they are not real, mostly a combination of the writer's creativity and folklore of that time with inspiration from some historical event that caught the writer's imagination. Example a simple family squabble w.r.t succession and land/property rights could have been the inspiration behind Mahabharat. Ofc the writer added his own tadka, preludes, backstory, invention of celestial beings etc....everything ultimately points to the writer's genius rather than proper historical account.

 

If archaeological evidence points to 1.7 million years ago, all the more reason to rubbish the historical authenticity. Human species has evolved, formed civilizations, recorded history in written/unwritten form only in the Holocene epoch, which started 12000 years ago (approx). Evolution points that 1.7 million years ago, humans were in a very primitive form, almost ape like living on trees and munching berries, insects and roots. It is nigh impossible to believe that they were out there plotting wars and administering kingdoms, forget loony stuff like designing aircraft/missiles like the sources indicate. If anything I will congratulate the writer for imagining stuff like Pushpaka Vimana and the various astras.....almost Da Vinci like but few centuries before the great Italian. Again dates of these supposed historical happenings vary differently depending on the source, anywhere between more than a million years ago to 2000 B.C......if there can be a consensus among the various voices as to when these events happened may be we can disprove it accordingly.

 

Regarding the Rama Setu/Adam's Bridge, its importance to Hindus because many believe the monkeys built it for Ram and co ...again geography disproves that tosh also.  Before Pleistocene epoch this was just a piece of land connecting today's India and Sri Lanka. Problem is it was a low level land (roughly 180-190 m above MSL, plain region) and towards the end of the ice age (Ice Age=Pleistocene epoch) world over mean sea level rose by 200 m, hence this narrow stretch of land got submerged and became shallow sea. When the epic was written probably the people would have noticed how shallow that part of the ocean was (a few metres deep)  compared to the adjoining areas and hence perfect recipe for more myth making. Rama Setu isn't the only anomaly here. Do you know that the Andaman islands are just an extension of Himalayas? When the Eurasian and Indo-Australian plates collided (Cenozoic era) they formed young fold mountains stretching from the Elburz and Zagros to Hindukush and Suleiman to Himalayas to Arakan Yoma (Burma)....The elevation of Purvanchal (Eastern Hills of India) and Arakan Yoma is much less and keeps getting lesser and lesser as we follow the arc. Andaman Islands are nothing but the extended portions of Arakan Yoma in Bay of Bengal, large swathes of the low mountains were submerged at the end of ice age, leaving only pockets of islands which are inhabited by Indians today. If you observe the oceanography of the arc from Arakan Yoma to Andaman you will see a similar feature like Rama Setu, in fact even as shallow as a few feet deep in some places making navigation by big ships nigh impossible !!!! Since our ancestors hadn't explored this region they couldn't make stories like they did with the monkey built bridge to enter Ravana's kingdom. There are many such regions in the world which were low lying plains even as recent as 15-20k years ago but got submerged by rising sea level at the end of the last Ice Age. Remember, what are plains today will become continental shelf after a few years of rising sea level, leaving only certain jutting portions above water. It isn't beyond the scope of imagination that when climate change takes its full toll, in a few centuries entire Konkan and Malabar Coast will get submerged under water, after all Adam's Bridge was in a similar predicament once upon a time. Why stop with India. look at another prominent example in Europe, why are certain parts of Baltic Sea so shallow? Same reason, they were plains till very recent times when rising sea levels engulfed them. Finland was connected to the Baltic countries (Estonia, Lativia, Lithuania) but then just like Palk Strait, Gulf of Finland happened with average depth 38 m going a slow as 2 m depth in some places, there is a reason the Russian Empire/USSR/Russia couldn't make St Petersburg their primary port even though it is an ice free port unlike other ports in Russia (plus close proximity to Western European nations).....large ships can't navigate in such waters just like how they couldn't navigate across  Rama Setu. If only the Viking and Slavic writers had the imagination of Mr Valmiki to come up with a man/monkey made bridge.....

Edited April 21, 2018 by Gollum

[Stradlater]

Urban settlements around Kosala Mahajanpada aren't found before 6th-7th century BC which busts the entire Ramayan timeline. Sorry Bhakto as much as it pains me to say but Prabhu Shri Ram didn't exist.

Mahabharata is def real though but minus the Jadoo part of course.

[Stradlater]

7 minutes ago, Gollum said:

IMO Mahabharat and Ramayan are great stories, literature of the highest quality and hence worthy of respect. But they are not real, mostly a combination of the writer's creativity and folklore of that time with inspiration from some historical event that caught the writer's imagination. Example a simple family squabble w.r.t succession and land rights could have been the inspiration behind Mahabharat. Ofc the writer added his own tadka, preludes, backstory, invention of celestial beings etc....everything ultimately points to the writer's genius rather than proper historical account.

 

If archaeological evidence points to 1.7 million years ago, all the more reason to rubbish the historical authenticity. Human species has evolved, formed civilizations, recorded history in written/unwritten form only in the Holocene epoch, which started 12000 years ago (approx). Evolution points that 1.7 million years ago, humans were in a very primitive form, almost ape like living on trees and munching berries, insects and roots. It is nigh impossible to believe that they were out there plotting wars and administering kingdoms, forget loony stuff like designing aircraft/missiles like the sources indicate. If anything I will congratulate the writer for imagining stuff like Pushpaka Vimana and the various astras.....almost Da Vinci like but few centuries before the great Italian. Again dates of these supposed historical happenings vary differently depending on the source, anywhere between more than a million years ago to 2000 B.C......if there can be a consensus among the various voices as to when these events happened may be we can disprove it accordingly.

 

Regarding the Rama Setu/Adam's Bridge, its importance to Hindus because many believe the monkeys built it for Ram and co ...again geography disproves that tosh also.  Before Pleistocene epoch this was just a piece of land connecting today's India and Sri Lanka. Problem is it was a low level land (roughly 180-190 m above MSL plain region) and towards the end of the ice age (Ice Age=Pleistocene epoch) world over mean sea level rose by 200 m, hence this narrow stretch of land got submerged and became shallow sea. When the epic was written probably the people would have noticed how shallow that part of the ocean was (a few metres deep)  compared to the adjoining areas and hence perfect recipe for more myth making. Rama Setu isn't the only anomaly here. Do you know that the Andaman islands are just an extension of Himalayas? When the Eurasian and Indo-Australian plates collided (Cenozoic era) they formed young fold mountains stretching from the Elburz and Zagros to Hindukush and Suleiman to Himalayas to Arakan Yoma (Burma)....The elevation of Purvanchal (Eastern Hills of India) and Arakan Yoma is much less and keeps getting lesser and lesser as we follow the arc. Andaman Islands are nothing but the extended portions of Arakan Yoma in Bay of Bengal, large swathes of the low mountains were submerged at the end of ice age, leaving only pockets of islands which are inhabited by Indians today. If you observe the oceanography of the arc from Arakan Yoma to Andaman you will see a similar feature like Rama Setu, in fact even as shallow as a few feet deep in some places making navigation by big ships nigh impossible !!!! Since our ancestors hadn't explored this region they couldn't make stories like they did with the monkey built bridge to enter Ravana's kingdom. There are many such regions in the world which were low lying plains even as recent as 15-20k years ago but got submerged by rising sea level at the end of the last Ice Age. Remember, what are plains today will become continental shelf after a few years of rising sea level, leaving only certain jutting portions above water. It isn't beyond the scope of imagination that when climate change takes its full toll, in a few centuries entire Konkan and Malabar Coast will get submerged under water, after all Adam's Bridge was in a similar predicament once upon a time. Why stop with India. look at another prominent example in Europe, why are certain parts of Baltic Sea so shallow? Same reason, they were plains till very recent times when rising sea levels engulfed them. Finland was connected to the Baltic countries (Estonia, Lativia, Lithuania) but then just like Palk Strait, Gulf of Finland happened with average depth 38 m going a slow as 2 m depth in some places, there is a reason the Russian Empire/USSR/Russia couldn't make St Petersburg their primary port even though it is an ice free port unlike other ports in Russia (plus close proximity to Western European nations).....large ships can't navigate in such waters just like how they couldn't navigate across  Rama Setu. If only the Viking and Slavic writers had the imagination of Mr Valmiki to come up with a man/monkey made bridge.....

Brilliantly explained my friend. This should settle ever debate right here.

Edit: But you are wrong on the Andaman islands part though. They aren't extension of Himalayan mountains infact they are islands just like Indonesia archipelago which got above the water and were formed via oceanic oceanic plate convergence. Hence the volcanic activity(remember the Barren island).

Had they been part of Himalayas they wouldn't have been tectonically active.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Stradlater

[Stradlater]

Also @Gollum you forgot to give the most relatable example that is of Bering strait. During the ice age the water levels in the strait were extremely low which helped the today's native Americans to migrate from Asia to Alaska.

After pleistocene like you have already mentioned water levels in the seas around the world rose suddenly which happened in this very strait as well thus cutting off those Palaeo humans from the rest of the world until the arrival of Columbus and discovery of new world .

[Gollum]

7 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Brilliantly explained my friend. This should settle ever debate right here.

Edit: But you are wrong on the Andaman islands part though. They aren't extension of Himalayan mountains infact they are islands just like Indonesia archipelago which got above the water and were formed via oceanic oceanic plate convergence. Hence the volcanic activity(remember the Barren island).

Had they been part of Himalayas they wouldn't have been tectonically active.

From my understanding they are an extension of Arakan Yoma (which itself is an extension of Himalayas). They have volcanic activity precisely because of ocean-ocean plate convergence. There is no volcanic activity in Himalays (or anywhere in the chain of mountains stretching from Pamir Knot) because continent-continent convergence can never form volcanic activity, only earthquakes. Ocean-ocean convergence can give rise to both earthquakes as well as volcanism. The reason why continent-continent convergence can never give rise to volcanos is because there is no subduction, without subduction the crust can't reach the asthenosphere and subsequently no magma formation.  Regarding tectonic activity Himalayas are tectonically very active, that is why we have so many earthquakes in that region. Some of the largest earthquakes in recent times like Sichuan 2008, Kashmir 2005, Nepal 2015 have all occurred in this region. There is violent tectonic activity here and we are at the tip of the iceberg, many research papers have indicated that the worst is yet to come and more than half a billion people in the region are in imminent danger. Besides Shiwaliks (youngest young fold mountain) are growing every year because of tectonic activity........tectonic activity means movement of plates, as simple as that.

[Stradlater]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

From my understanding they are an extension of Arakan Yoma (which itself is an extension of Himalayas). They have volcanic activity precisely because of ocean-ocean plate convergence. There is no volcanic activity in Himalays (or anywhere in the chain of mountains stretching from Pamir Knot) because continent-continent convergence can never form volcanic activity, only earthquakes. Ocean-ocean convergence can give rise to both earthquakes as well as volcanism. The reason why continent-continent convergence can never give rise to volcanos is because there is no subduction, without subduction the crust can't reach the asthenosphere and subsequently no magma formation.  Regarding tectonic activity Himalayas are tectonically very active, that is why we have so many earthquakes in that region. Some of the largest earthquakes in recent times like Sichuan 2008, Kashmir 2005, Nepal 2015 have all occurred in this region. There is violent tectonic activity here and we are at the tip of the iceberg, many research papers have indicated that the worst is yet to come and more than half a billion people in the region are in imminent danger. Besides Shiwaliks (youngest young fold mountain) are growing every year because of tectonic activity........tectonic activity means movement of plates, as simple as that.

My apologies confused tectonics with volcanism.

From what I have read on it they were formed by oceanic oceanic plate convergence thus the volcanic activity like many islands in SE Asia while Himalayas are example of young fold mountains formed as a result of continent continent convergence.

[Gollum]

14 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Also @Gollum you forgot to give the most relatable example that is of Bering strait. During the ice age the water levels in the strait were extremely low which helped the today's native Americans to migrate from Asia to Alaska.

After pleistocene like you have already mentioned water levels in the seas around the world rose suddenly which happened in this very strait as well thus cutting off those Palaeo humans from the rest of the world until the arrival of Columbus and discovery of new world .

 You are absolutely right about Bering strait. 

 

The polar opposite of Bering Strait is Isthmus of Panama. South America became attached to North America only recently with the formation of Ishtmus of Panama, some 3 million years ago. The driving force was volcanism, a result of convergence of Cocos plate and Caribbean plate in the late Cenozoic era. Just like you mentioned the migration from Asia to Alaska, over here we had the Great American Interchange in which land and freshwater fauna migrated from North America via Central America to South America and vice versa. The Panama canal that connects Atlantic Ocean with Pacific Ocean is through the Isthmus, a feat of engineering marvel. It was more difficult than Suez in spite of being 1/3rd the length because unlike Suez which was a sea level canal, here in Panama the engineers had to cut through the volcanic mountains, an elevation canal had to be made. Look how it helped their economy by avoiding the lengthy Cape Horn route. India ko dekho is taraf, Sethusamdudram project (far easier and cheaper, favourable cost-benefit ratio, alignment chosen so as to minimize dredging of the Setu) has been stalled for over a decade because many sentiments are hurt LOL. Colombo port has taken all the traffic away from Chennai, Ennore, Tuticorin and now even Hambantota is ready to join the party. Baat karte hai ki jaise hum China/USA/Europe ke barabar hai, par humari asli aukaat yahi hai ki Sri Lanka  jaise chote mulk ke aage ghutne thek de. All because of our refusal to toe a scientific line of thinking, things will get even worse the way we are heading.....

[Gollum]

27 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

My apologies confused tectonics with volcanism.

From what I have read on it they were formed by oceanic oceanic plate convergence thus the volcanic activity like many islands in SE Asia while Himalayas are example of young fold mountains formed as a result of continent continent convergence.

The underlying theme is convergence between Indo-Australian Plate and Eurasian Plate in Cenozoic era, hence young fold. Indo Australian plate has both continental crust (granitic) as well as oceanic crust(basaltic). In case of Andaman I think it is oceanic-continental convergence hence also resulting in volcanism. In S.E Asia I guess it must be oceanic-oceanic plate convergence, it is a part of Pacific Ring of Fire.

[Stradlater]

17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 You are absolutely right about Bering strait. 

 

The polar opposite of Bering Strait is Isthmus of Panama. South America became attached to North America only recently with the formation of Ishtmus of Panama, some 3 million years ago. The driving force was volcanism, a result of convergence of Cocos plate and Caribbean plate in the late Cenozoic era. Just like you mentioned the migration from Asia to Alaska, over here we had the Great American Interchange in which land and freshwater fauna migrated from North America via Central America to South America and vice versa. The Panama canal that connects Atlantic Ocean with Pacific Ocean is through the Isthmus, a feat of engineering marvel. It was more difficult than Suez in spite of being 1/3rd the length because unlike Suez which was a sea level canal, here in Panama the engineers had to cut through the volcanic mountains, an elevation canal had to be made. Look how it helped their economy by avoiding the lengthy Cape Horn route. India ko dekho is taraf, Sethusamdudram project (far easier and cheaper, favourable cost-benefit ratio, alignment chosen so as to minimize dredging of the Setu) has been stalled for over a decade because many sentiments are hurt LOL. Colombo port has taken all the traffic away from Chennai, Ennore, Tuticorin and now even Hambantota is ready to join the party. Baat karte hai ki jaise hum China/USA/Europe ke barabar hai, par humari asli aukaat yahi hai ki Sri Lanka  jaise chote mulk ke aage ghutne thek de. All because of our refusal to toe a scientific line of thinking, things will get even worse the way we are heading.....

Logo ki bhawanao se khilwad karte hai ye vaigyanik. Mandir Wahi banayenge 

[zen]

Ppl know the arguments of those who think Ramayana or Mahabharata (or many other religious books from other religions too) cannot be true .... why write essays on it  

 

For e.g on a thread on Islam / Christianity, ppl can write various stuff too 

 

So what is next? How Pushpak Viman cannot exist? 

Edited April 21, 2018 by zen

[punjabi_khota]

they are as real as kardashian ass-ets

Edited April 21, 2018 by punjabi_khota

[sarcastic]

10 hours ago, zen said:

There are a lot of unknown unknowns (could be knowns for many). The belief that Ramayana and Mahabharata are real is tied with the belief that God exists as Rama and Krishna are considered to be avatars of Lord Vishnu. If you believe that God exists, then the answer is easy and vice versa. 

 

In the past, due to lack of proper scientific knowledge, difficult to explain concepts were attributed to miracles. Now science has (or at least tries to explain) an explanation for many of those miracles. Bible, iirc, says the universe was created by God. Scientist try to explain that through the Big Bang Theory (and imply that it was not a miracle). But could God not use the Big Bang to create universe? There is usually science used to do these “miracles”. 

 

 

The concept of God, and how many folks have hijacked the religion to use it for their benefits should not be confused. It would be similar to suggesting that because of people who made nukes, Science is bad. If we remove this confusion, our willingness to open up to various possibilities increases. 

 

What is also creating doubts is how these books are written. For e.g. Hanuman Dada is said to have brought a hill from India to SL. In reality, he could have just acquired some herbs or even brought the “tea” to Ceylon. Vaanar may not imply monkeys literally but Vaa (air) and Nar (male) to mean people who probably have something to do with air, mountains, etc. The area around Bangalore is hilly.

 

 

As science progresses, it will eventually prove that God exists. Unlike what many think there is no conflict b/w science and religion. God is the greatest scientist.

 

Conflict is b/w those who use religion for their benefit and those who confuse these folks with religion and try to fight them with science. Let these guys fight. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think we have to be careful with the bolded statement there. There is a difference between people's beliefs and actual facts. 

Saying Ramayan and Mahabharat stories happened does not automatically imply that Ram and Krishna are avatars of Lord Vishnu. 

 

The former is potential historical fact and the latter is a belief aspect of a religion. 

 

The analogous example is: the existence of a wise person called Jesus in ancient Judea vs the belief that God the creator's only begotten son is born to virgin Mary and one can enter heaven only through "son of God" Jesus Christ. 

 

The fact that Ramayan story happened and Mahabharat story happened will not automatically prove that Ram and Krishna are avatars. It proves that they are great heroes (even if born as human-beings) and achieved great feats and established Dharma to help the humanity. 

 

The fact that they are considered to be avatars of Lord Vishnu and hence "Gods" in human form could be later on interpolation of humanbeings just like how we made Shirdi Sai baba a God and in fact avatar of Lord Dattatreya. 

 

In summary, my point is we should not connect the question, "Did Ramayana/Mahabhart really happened?" to a religious belief or religious community. It is a question that need to be answered from a historical perspective and not a believing perspective. Since, I know you to be a very logically sharp and factually knowledgeable person, I believe you understand my point. 

[zen]

36 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

I think we have to be careful with the bolded statement there. There is a difference between people's beliefs and actual facts. 

Saying Ramayan and Mahabharat stories happened does not automatically imply that Ram and Krishna are avatars of Lord Vishnu. 

 

The former is potential historical fact and the latter is a belief aspect of a religion. 

 

The analogous example is: the existence of a wise person called Jesus in ancient Judea vs the belief that God the creator's only begotten son is born to virgin Mary and one can enter heaven only through "son of God" Jesus Christ. 

 

The fact that Ramayan story happened and Mahabharat story happened will not automatically prove that Ram and Krishna are avatars. It proves that they are great heroes (even if born as human-beings) and achieved great feats and established Dharma to help the humanity. 

 

The fact that they are considered to be avatars of Lord Vishnu and hence "Gods" in human form could be later on interpolation of humanbeings just like how we made Shirdi Sai baba a God and in fact avatar of Lord Dattatreya. 

 

In summary, my point is we should not connect the question, "Did Ramayana/Mahabhart really happened?" to a religious belief or religious community. It is a question that need to be answered from a historical perspective and not a believing perspective. Since, I know you to be a very logically sharp and factually knowledgeable person, I believe you understand my point. 

The point is that those who believe in Ram and Krishna to be Gods will believe the books to be true.  Bhagvat Gita, the holy book, is based on what the Lord tells to Arjuna

 

Rest is immaterial as we are not at the point where we understand everything. x does not equate to y is something that most people understand. Scientists, corporate lawyers, mathematicians, etc., do believe in God 

 

[Muloghonto]

13 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Urban settlements around Kosala Mahajanpada aren't found before 6th-7th century BC which busts the entire Ramayan timeline. Sorry Bhakto as much as it pains me to say but Prabhu Shri Ram didn't exist.

Mahabharata is def real though but minus the Jadoo part of course.

There is an interesting theory out there, that Ram legend is not Indian in origin, but Iranian.

Several clues in the story point towards this:

1. The concept of singular wife, not harem of wives is practically unheard of in ancient India. Every single ruler up to the late medeival period is documented as having many, many wives. Ie, first instance of 'singular wife' as normal is seen amongst the Gurjaras and Rashtrakutas in 750s AD. Yet, in Iranian history, singular wives were far more common (though not always the case either) in pre-Islamic days.

2. Ram is found in many, many Iranian city-name prefixes and Ram is often used as a shorthand for Rostam.  Places like Ramallah (Ram is God), Ramshehr ( Ram's city),  Ramsar ( shorthand of Ramshahr, but in another part of Iran)

 

3. We have the curious case of never finding a ruler of ancient India called Ram or Shatrughana. Yet, we find archaeology of mesopotamia, where the names 'Shutruk-nahunte' are mentioned - several times (there were 2 or 3 of them) in the Elamite kingdom and two or three separate kings named Ram-Sin or Rim-Sin. In Sumerian, Sin = moon God (Isin = city of the moon god). Ie, Ram chandra is quite literally Ram-Sin/Rim-Sin in Sumerian. This, we have archaeological evidence of (that kings named Rim-Sin/Ram-Sin existed in old Sumeria).

 

4. Meaning of Ayodha is ' undefeated'. So is the meaning of the city named Akkad, in Akkadian language ( undefeated)- which now is a lost city of Sargon of Akkad - who's dynasty founded Akkad. And one of his descendants was named Naram-Sin ( Beloved of the moon God)

Edited April 21, 2018 by Muloghonto