Are Ramayan and Mahabharata real?

[rkt.india]

today someone posted these pics in whatsapp group I was part of and i refuted saying it is just false and bullshit has been spread.  Result, the guy went complained to admin and he removed.  This is what we largely have embraced. 

[coffee_rules]

As long as there is no persecution of religious beliefs (including atheism) from either side, we can function peacefully. Why does one group want to recruit more from the other group (including atheism). believe in what you want and leave the rest of them to their beliefs. 

[coffee_rules]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

today someone posted these pics in whatsapp group I was part of and i refuted saying it is just false and bullshit has been spread.  Result, the guy went complained to admin and he removed.  This is what we largely have embraced. 

sususwamy is a parody account , a LW troll parodying Subramanya Swamy, mocking his hindu beliefs. This is fake news. 

 

[Garuda]

32 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

sususwamy is a parody account , a LW troll parodying Subramanya Swamy, mocking his hindu beliefs. This is fake news. 

 

Swami is said to be a CIA agent by some that I have talked to. He studied in Harvard where most judges and lwayers in the US study and thats where most of the CIA opearatives are chosen from pardon the pun. He also opposed traditional bull taming sport of Jallikattu so mcuh for his hindu traditional values. He and many tamil industry stars (whores) stood for PETA which is actually a terrorist organization declared in the US which fronts as animal rights activists. Swami has mocked his own beliefs which is why he's not part of BJP and only cares for the money he makes. He lives mostly in the US and appears for news networks there. Even his tamil is very weird. A punjabi may speak better tamil than him.

 

PS: Sorry for going in a tangent.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Garuda
Going off in tangent

[Stradlater]

40 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

today someone posted these pics in whatsapp group I was part of and i refuted saying it is just false and bullshit has been spread.  Result, the guy went complained to admin and he removed.  This is what we largely have embraced. 

I'm surprised that she was able to keep up a straight face while spouting this gibberish. But then again I doubt these anchors can even spell biology.

Disgusting stuff

[zen]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I hope a time comes when such questions about god could be openly asked even in the mosques, as god could be mentioned and preached everywhere. 

Therefore, if people have the right to preach their religion, then there is nothing wrong to question and criticize Allah anywhere including mosques.

Good if religious people think that questioning/criticizing their gods/religions brings nothing and their religion still stands. 

 

Nevertheless, in my view there is a huge difference between the thousands of years old history and situation of today. While today we are living in highly scientifically developed society. Religions are no more able to answer the scientific questions and they are on the run. The numbers of people who are leaving religion today is unprecedented in whole human history. 

We have been living in scientifically developed society every since we invented tools. As time passes, we would be achieving some of the things not foreseen today. As I said even Scientists and Historians believe in God. Many of us here have advanced degrees to be able to deduce things. So let's not bring in such basic concepts unless your assumption is that people don't know about science, history, etc., and live under a rock where they need to be enlightened

 

You need to understand that there are different metrics for different topics. To illustrate, growing up, when I was sick, I was attended by the best doctors but my parents were also praying so that I would get well soon. Before going to give exams or do anything of importance (say play a cricket match final), I would be told to take God's blessings. Through religious principles, I was taught to respect my elders and other family members (you only have to see how humans breeded like animals in ancient times. Science will probably only tell you that mating is a biological process). When people get married, they take vows in front of God 

 

Despite being well versed in problem solving, I have found myself in difficult situations. Like Arjun in Mahabharata, I have felt like backing out / giving up on multiple occasions. And then I have prayed which  gave me strength to take on the challenges. After walking the difficult path, I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel .... In these ways, God becomes a part of our lives (a family member) .... Do I care about some empty vessels telling me about science and history, and that too when I know about science and history just like most people?

 

Believing in God / Religion does not mean everything that what everyone says about it is correct. I mean if someone tells me to walk on my hands and travel 1 kilometer to achieve x, I would question that. That does not imply I am questioning God though. Similarly if someone says God does not exists because there is no scientific / historical evidence, I am not going to care for such arguments 

 

On the other hand, I take business decisions based on ROI, data, cost-benefit analysis, etc. If someone is going to walk in my office to say Product X has a market potential of $1B and by doing this even if we get 1% of the market, we would be at this or that, I am going to laugh him out of my office

 

The point being that there are different metrics in play for different subjects (and that is a difficult concept to grasp for many) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by zen

[zen]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

sususwamy is a parody account , a LW troll parodying Subramanya Swamy, mocking his hindu beliefs. This is fake news. 

 

Also it tries to use scientific concepts of release of oxygen .... if it is fail, it is science fail .... along with the dumb move to link science fail with religious belief fail .... and of course missing the fake news / parody 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, zen said:

We have been living in scientifically developed society every since we invented tools. As time passes, we would be achieving some of the things not foreseen today. As I said even Scientists and Historians believe in God. Many of us here have advanced degrees to be able to deduce things. So let's not bring in such basic concepts unless your assumption is that people don't know about science, history, etc., and live under a rock where they need to be enlightened

Muslims also have advanced degrees. Christians too. Jews too. 

Muslims converted the science to match their Quran, or they converted the interpretation of Quran to match science. They are doing it under the influence of family and society in which they have been living right from the beginning and have been religiously brainwashed. 

Had they born in a non-Muslim family, then surely they would have been saying it to be a "contradiction" between science and Quran. But due to religious brainwashing, they interpret it and say it to be a "Miracle of Quran". 

 

And when even the interpretation also does not help, there they say that God is almighty and God is beyond science and they are going to believe in it even if all the scientific evidences are going against God. And I have seen this same scenario in this same thread of story of Ramayan/Mahabharat. 

 

Therefore, my personal opinion is this that people believe in god/gods, while they want to believe due to their upbringing since childhood, and following their family traditions etc. 

 

1 hour ago, zen said:

You need to understand that there are different metrics for different topics. To illustrate, growing up, when I was sick, I was attended by the best doctors but my parents were also praying so that I would get well soon. Before going to give exams or do anything of importance (say play a cricket match final), I would be told to take God's blessings. Through religious principles, I was taught to respect my elders and other family members (you only have to see how humans breeded like animals in ancient times. Science will probably only tell you that mating is a biological process). When people get married, they take vows in front of God 

I have seen this scenario also lot of time in my life. 

I prayed to God a lot, but my close relatives still died and no prayers helped them. 

People failing in exams despite giving bribes to gods in name of bhaint/Niaz. 

Respecting elders is not limited to religion. Buddha was an atheist, but still he taught the morality in his teachings including respect for the elders. 

 

 

1 hour ago, zen said:

Despite being well versed in problem solving, I have found myself in difficult situations. Like Arjun in Mahabharata, I have felt like backing out / giving up on multiple occasions. And then I have prayed which  gave me strength to take on the challenges. After walking the difficult path, I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel .... In these ways, God becomes a part of our lives (a family member) .... Do I care about some empty vessels telling me about science and history, and that too when I know about science and history just like most people?

Good for you if your prayers are heard. 

You are fully free to tell it to the people that your prayers were heard. 

It is your right to accept it or not, but other people are also totally free to tell you what their experiences are i.e. their prayers got the wrong numbers. 

It is fully ok if they bring their arguments from science, till the time they are not forcefully imposing their views upon you. 

 

I want full liberty of telling/propagating one's views/arguments to the others. But the problem arises when this basic human right is snatched away in name of "respect" of religion or in name of "blasphemy". 

 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Muslims also have advanced degrees. Christians too. Jews too. 

Muslims converted the science to match their Quran, or they converted the interpretation of Quran to match science. They are doing it under the influence of family and society in which they have been living right from the beginning and have been religiously brainwashed. 

Had they born in a non-Muslim family, then surely they would have been saying it to be a "contradiction" between science and Quran. But due to religious brainwashing, they interpret it and say it to be a "Miracle of Quran". 

And when even the interpretation also does not help, there they say that God is almighty and God is beyond science and they are going to believe in it even if all the scientific evidences are going against God. And I have seen this same scenario in this same thread of story of Ramayan/Mahabharat. 

I can't speak for all religions 

 

Quote

Therefore, my personal opinion is this that people believe in god/gods, while they want to believe due to their upbringing since childhood, and following their family traditions etc. 

It would likely be the case. We are usually born in to a religion and God is usually an omnipresent part of our families 

 

 

Quote

 

I have seen this scenario also lot of time in my life. 

I prayed to God a lot, but my close relatives still died and no prayers helped them. 

People failing in exams despite giving bribes to gods in name of bhaint/Niaz. 

Respecting elders is not limited to religion. Buddha was an atheist, but still he taught the morality in his teachings including respect for the elders. 

 

True. However, exceptions don't make the rule. And it can be argued that from where did Buddha get the idea (from his upbringing in a religious environment? From meditation?)

 

Quote

 

Good for you if your prayers are heard. 

You are fully free to tell it to the people that your prayers were heard. 

It is your right to accept it or not, but other people are also totally free to tell you what their experiences are i.e. their prayers got the wrong numbers. 

It is fully ok if they bring their arguments from science, till the time they are not forcefully imposing their views upon you. 

 

The above is not relevant to the discussion. My prayers do not prove the existence of God to others (and even if I have the proof, why would I want to share it?).  Similarly, a prayer not answered does not prove a lack of existence of God. My point was more about how ingrained God is in our lives to worry about scientific/historical proof 

 

 

Quote

I want full liberty of telling/propagating one's views/arguments to the others. But the problem arises when this basic human right is snatched away in name of "respect" of religion or in name of "blasphemy". 

In some cultures that happens. I am against insulting religions just because some empty vessels don't get it (however, respecting religion does not mean accepting anything that anyone says in its name).  Ask questions if you like but don't expect answers to be based on your metrics. Keep an open mind 

Edited April 24, 2018 by zen

[dial_100]

I dont think average religious or any atheist will be able to really say anything for sure on this. Former has a blind faith and the other has no faith or closed mind.

 

I often hear people complain that they are so religious but they feel that their prayers are never heard. The list goes on. The real issue is that we do not feel the existence of Param Chaitanya. It is very easy to achieve it. Once you feel that, there are so many things you can know. This is lot more powerful than your average internet or phone etc. I see we do not hesitate to post on such topics while we are totally unqualified for it. 

 

Please find few years to master what i said above. Once you do that you will have not just this but many answers. For me, science is just a fun but I dont see it as any kind of savior or something great. Science only leads us into materialistic life. Every single invention in science has been misused by humans. Because thats the nature of science. On the same line, religion which tries to tie the concept into books and try to organize it. That creates exact same problems. There is so much that can written on this topic. But again, unless you guys try and achieve something, it is all meaningless. The materialistic world promotes arguments (Non stop) because you have no power to know whether you are right or wrong. Egoistical mind leads us to believe that we are the only ones who are correct and others are absolutely wrong.

Science - very limited

Religion - well its better not said anything

xxxxx - there is something beyond the above two. Please try it and you will find it worthy.

[Muloghonto]

49 minutes ago, dial_100 said:

I dont think average religious or any atheist will be able to really say anything for sure on this. Former has a blind faith and the other has no faith or closed mind.

 

I often hear people complain that they are so religious but they feel that their prayers are never heard. The list goes on. The real issue is that we do not feel the existence of Param Chaitanya. It is very easy to achieve it. Once you feel that, there are so many things you can know. This is lot more powerful than your average internet or phone etc. I see we do not hesitate to post on such topics while we are totally unqualified for it. 

 

Please find few years to master what i said above. Once you do that you will have not just this but many answers. For me, science is just a fun but I dont see it as any kind of savior or something great. Science only leads us into materialistic life. Every single invention in science has been misused by humans. Because thats the nature of science. On the same line, religion which tries to tie the concept into books and try to organize it. That creates exact same problems. There is so much that can written on this topic. But again, unless you guys try and achieve something, it is all meaningless. The materialistic world promotes arguments (Non stop) because you have no power to know whether you are right or wrong. Egoistical mind leads us to believe that we are the only ones who are correct and others are absolutely wrong.

Science - very limited

Religion - well its better not said anything

xxxxx - there is something beyond the above two. Please try it and you will find it worthy.

We live in a material universe. Every human desires material enrichment. 

The counter to this argument, usually is ' that is hedonisism and materials dont make people happy'. 

Problem with anti-materialists or ultra-materialists, is that they think that humans ONLY try to gain material for happiness/ONLY materials will make them happy. But the truth is in the middle- materials are ONE OF the things that make humans happy. 

 

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, dial_100 said:

I dont think average religious or any atheist will be able to really say anything for sure on this. Former has a blind faith and the other has no faith or closed mind.

 

I often hear people complain that they are so religious but they feel that their prayers are never heard. The list goes on. The real issue is that we do not feel the existence of Param Chaitanya. It is very easy to achieve it. Once you feel that, there are so many things you can know. This is lot more powerful than your average internet or phone etc. I see we do not hesitate to post on such topics while we are totally unqualified for it. 

 

Please find few years to master what i said above. Once you do that you will have not just this but many answers. For me, science is just a fun but I dont see it as any kind of savior or something great. Science only leads us into materialistic life. Every single invention in science has been misused by humans. Because thats the nature of science. On the same line, religion which tries to tie the concept into books and try to organize it. That creates exact same problems. There is so much that can written on this topic. But again, unless you guys try and achieve something, it is all meaningless. The materialistic world promotes arguments (Non stop) because you have no power to know whether you are right or wrong. Egoistical mind leads us to believe that we are the only ones who are correct and others are absolutely wrong.

Science - very limited

Religion - well its better not said anything

xxxxx - there is something beyond the above two. Please try it and you will find it worthy.

Yeah Naah

[coffee_rules]

The key to happiness is Minimalism.

Minimalism has helped us…

• Eliminate our discontent
• Reclaim our time
• Live in the moment
• Pursue our passions
• Discover our missions
• Experience real freedom
• Create more, consume less
• Focus on our health
• Grow as individuals
• Contribute beyond ourselves
• Rid ourselves of excess stuff
• Discover purpose in our lives

https://www.theminimalists.com/minimalism/

 

[zen]

45 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The key to happiness is Minimalism.

Minimalism has helped us…

• Eliminate our discontent
• Reclaim our time
• Live in the moment
• Pursue our passions
• Discover our missions
• Experience real freedom
• Create more, consume less
• Focus on our health
• Grow as individuals
• Contribute beyond ourselves
• Rid ourselves of excess stuff
• Discover purpose in our lives

https://www.theminimalists.com/minimalism/

 

I have a book “Joy of Less”, which I am yet to read. Only browsed it so far

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

sususwamy is a parody account , a LW troll parodying Subramanya Swamy, mocking his hindu beliefs. This is fake news. 

 

this is not a fake news. i myself watched this on TV before. watch here.

 

 

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, zen said:

Also it tries to use scientific concepts of release of oxygen .... if it is fail, it is science fail .... along with the dumb move to link science fail with religious belief fail .... and of course missing the fake news / parody 

it's not a fake news. i had watched it myself on aajtak sometime back.

[Muloghonto]

All this minimalism talk is ancient Indian psy-ops against the populace. While Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc. all have great ideas in them (especially Buddhism), this minimalist talk, i am sorry, is an elitist psy-ops on people.

Lets investigate why.

 

Reason #1: we are a product of evolution and what we innately want, as a species has a strong evolutionary component to it. Almost all of us innately want material benefit- this is part of who we are and denying it, is like denying sex- the psychological consequences are not pretty.

 

Reason #2: India historically has been the richest place on the planet till 9th-10th century AD. Dr. Angus Maddison calculated,that even during the height of the Roman Empire, it was the Indian subcontinent that had the greatest GDP on the planet.

How did our ancestors earn said GDP ? By being a commodity exporter. 
Indians don't have a track record of conquering and pillaging lands far and wide, neither was India ever known for its gold or silver mines like Greece, China or Egypt was.

We became rich, by exporting cotton, spices, clothing, jute, hemp, etc. to the western countries to us. Yet, most Indians are noted to've lived frugal,simple lifestyles over the ages by the travellers. On the other hand, our elites (kings and ministers and such) were also noted to've lived the most opulent lifestyle on the planet.

 

A material exporting rich civilization, with the most affluent elites and frugal masses, preaching 'non-materialism' is an obvious ploy of the elites to keep the society as a poor non-consumer society to maximize their own profit ( ie, modern day China effect). 

[sarcastic]

 

this is not a fake news. i myself watched this on TV before. watch here.

 

 

Someone in the comment's section is suggesting why the anchor not just eat the "gobar" to get all the benefits of it. 

Also, what about Buffalo... Do all the benefits also apply for Buffaloes. Should we save them too. Also, goat, sheep etc. should also be investigated. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by sarcastic

[MechEng]

 

Ramayana and Mahabharata are part of our cultural and religious heritage. These books and beliefs have shaped our region .... Only dumbasses will try to play down the importance of their own heritage by claiming it may not be true, and that too at times to showcase their limited intelligence .... It is similar to Kalidas trying to cut the branch that he was sitting on 

I prefer staying humble in these matters actually. Indian spiritual sciences is a complex field and is not my expertise, so neither I would force someone to believe in it nor I would force someone to see it as myths.

 

Just like you said they have shaped our region is the reason why I'm more inclined to believe they were real events. Harry Potter is an amazing work of fiction from England, but Harry Potter series will never have the power to shape England's cultural heritage. Similarly works of fiction will entertain audiences but will never have the power to shape a region's cultural heritage.

[Alam_dar]

 

Ramayana and Mahabharata are part of our cultural and religious heritage. These books and beliefs have shaped our region .... Only dumbasses will try to play down the importance of their own heritage by claiming it may not be true, and that too at times to showcase their limited intelligence .... It is similar to Kalidas trying to cut the branch that he was sitting on 

In fact, Pakistanis also come up with this same argument of culture and religious heritage when their religion and religious stories are challenged and criticized. 

 

I find there is "No Harm" if one/society changes it's cultural and religious heritage, based upon the "Rationale" and the modern knowledge. 

 

India was not the same from the beginning. There came a time when Buddhism changed the cultural and religious heritage. And then came the Muslims and later the English, and the state system changed from Hindu religious system to Secularism. 

 

So, the new changed cultural heritage of India is Secularism today.

 

And according to the basic rule of secularism, one is totally allowed to propagate the Ramayan and Mahabharat as real stories through "Parchar/Preaching/Tableegh", but at the same time others are also totally free to question these stories and claim them to be only the fantasy stories. There is no problem if the younger generation consider it to be a fantasy and they give up this thing as cultural/religious heritage.