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British Indians


Franco Vazquez

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Brit Indians are really different to Indian diasporas in other countries. Most of the 2nd and 3rd generation British Indians do not care about their roots and can't even relate to Indians, unlike say Canadian or American Indians. They are the least patriotic Indian ethnicity I think. What you guys think?

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I don't expect them to be attached to India even for a 2nd generation Indian. He is basically foreign as far as I'm concerned. In England, they have stayed long enough to be 3rd gen or 4th gen. I expect them to act like a normal Brit rather than an Indian-American who is possibly 2nd gen because the migration happened mostly in the 90s. You can perhaps understand their confusion. Now its getting to 3rd gen I think. If you have 2nd gen relatives, they may be nice to you but they would be reluctant to mingle with you. Or they may be all-Indian. You can find the whole gamut.

What I don't like is their outlook vis-a-vis me? Some of them act more American/British than normal. Their hatred of me is a outgrowth of their self-hate. I'm more likely to find white and black friends than these people.

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Yeah you are right. An average white or black person would know more about India than them. They act way more British than they actually are. Its not a bad thing because when in Rome but they shouldn't be utterly careless about their roots. I am not an Indian myself but its really sad to see some people from Pak, India or Bangladesh who dont care about their country of origin. I met this British Indian girl as her name sounded like that so I asked her about that but she was kinda embarrassed by her ethnicity which is shocking

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1 hour ago, BeardedAladdin said:

 

Nobody in the diaspora is Indian. Even first generation immigrants give up their indianness the moment they change citizenship. 

 

It's not hatred.

 

You ou have to respect the fact that they are 100% British, or American...and they will NEVER be able to connect or relate to Indians. Of course they'll struggle to mingle with you. They don't speak the language, they don't understand our mannerisms, our humor, our norms, it's all foreign to them. You can't blame them for that, they grew up in a different country. They only call themselves Indian because western society is too racist to make them "white". 

 

I think they become more self conscious of their lack of "indianness" when they're around an actual Indian. they have very little interaction with India, and if they ever visit India, they're viewing the country from the perspective of a tourist. They're fish out of water when in India, or talking to Indians. 

That's what I meant. I guess you didn't read my response properly. I did say they are foreign whereas the OP was still considering them Indian.

Some of them do hate us. They are probably bullied in high school because they looked Indian and they transfer this back to us. I have seen it in universities and had one guy admit to it online. In our school, we had an Association formed by us. The second gen had their own Assocation. There was a cold war between us. May not be so now. I had guys look at me like "Why are you here" kind of look.

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1 hour ago, Franco Vazquez said:

Yeah you are right. An average white or black person would know more about India than them. They act way more British than they actually are. Its not a bad thing because when in Rome but they shouldn't be utterly careless about their roots. I am not an Indian myself but its really sad to see some people from Pak, India or Bangladesh who dont care about their country of origin. I met this British Indian girl as her name sounded like that so I asked her about that but she was kinda embarrassed by her ethnicity which is shocking

On the contrary the average white or black person knows less than the second gen but its easy to create rapport among them because you are starting afresh. The average second genner may have taken several trips to India by this point and knows a lot but they want the same kinda treatment that an American/Brit has since he/she is born there. I met a Indian Zambian (what?) and I asked him if he's Indian. He quickly recoiled and said he is a Zambian. It was my mistake but his reaction was a bit strange for me. What's your nationality and ethnicity if you don't mind me asking

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1 hour ago, BeardedAladdin said:

Disagree. It's the other way around.

 

british Indians aren't forced to assimilate into British society. They aren't really considered 'English' because only white people are truly English. British governance gives a great deal of freedom to minorities when it comes to identity, it's a lesson that they learned from the failure of colonialism. You are allowed to identify as whatever you want. This is both good and bad. The good thing is that British Asians have a strong sense of community. They retain quite a fair bit of language, culture and religious customs. They have their own networks and entertainment. I'm amazed at how there is a unique British Asian music scene. India and Pakistan get amazing support when they play cricket matches there. The bad thing is, they're often isolated from mainstream white society. They're second class citizens in a way, never equal, but in their own little corner of Britain. There is an unofficial segregation. By and large, the British Indian diaspora is the most the patriotic and attached. I think britains government feels that someday, it's "Asian" population will eventually migrate back. 

 

In america, it's the opposite. America forces assimilation in a way that Britain doesn't. You have less control over your own identity, it's more clearly defined in terms of white, black, Asian, Hispanic - a very clear caste based racial hierarchy. Indians often feel overlooked in a way, they aren't really Asian nor do they fit into the other groups. They are most definitely second class, but they aspire to become white in a way that British Asians don't. Racial caste, or simply, what they call - race - is a big deal in America, they discuss skin color quite openly and many social issues are framed in terms of race. Skin color, for the most part, determines quality of life in America. Since its a more privatized economy, segregation in education, employment and housing is more official. A bit different from the UK in that respect. Second generation Americans of Indian descent have an identity crisis that is far worse than that of British Asians. They have to choose between being white or being black, knowing fully well they won't fit in either crowd. As a consequence, they are less attached to India and try harder to distance themselves from their "indianness". 

 

i wrote down my observations about the diaspora in this thread http://www.indiancricketfans.com/forums/topic/106309-my-understanding-of-the-indian-diaspora-are-most-indian-immigrants-south-indian/

You are right on this one. America is more of a meliting pot. A second genner can marry an American of different race in US but in the UK, there will be resistance (from the Asian side).

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I think that there's some real nonsense being spewed on this thread.

 

Yes Indians are a segregated community in the UK. White people do not want to live with Indians and will start leaving when more and more Indians move into an area. 

 

As a result of this the majority of Indians live in areas where they are surrounded by other Indians. Therefore most Indians go to schools where they are the majority community and have nothing to feel ashamed of. They do not get bullied for being Indian - this is not 1975. In the 1960s, 70s and even 80s you could say that Indians did get bullied and faced severe racism and many of them had English nicknames to fit in more but that is not the case nowadays. I don't blame you guys though, after all you still have crappy Bollywood movies being produced today that portray Indians being bullied in the west.

 

The vast majority of Indians in the UK are not ashamed of their roots at all, they like listening to Indian music and watching Indian films but will probably prefer English music and movies.

 

From the 1960s to the 1980s there was a strong camaraderie with Pakistanis in the UK because there were fewer 'Asians' and both groups were under attack by racist organisations but the behaviour of the British Pakistani youth has created a big gap now, British Pakistanis are more likely to be involved in crime, raping white girls, terrorism , bad education and being hyper religious than Indians and therefore that friendship with them is not as strong as it used to be. Pakistanis want to have their Islamic identity and Indians don't want to be associated with bad things that Pakistanis do so you can see why the two communities are getting further apart.

 

Indians in the UK are different to those from India and may not connect fully but that does not mean that Indians in the UK are ashamed of their Indian roots. There is a strong Indian music and comedy scene in the UK and this would not be possible if UK Indians hated themselves. Indian marriages in the UK have Indian music, people wearing Indian clothes and the proper religious ceremonies.

 

Furthermore most Indians in the UK are of Punjabi and Gujarati descent whereas the Indians coming over now are mostly from South India or Mumbai so maybe there is another obstacle in mingling properly?

 

I work in IT and come into contact with several Indians from India and get on with them well but I do have to say that their sense of humour is very cringe worthy and a couple of them have even been very perverted in a sense that is almost disturbing, even more so considering that they are from an educated background.

Edited by Ranvir
spelling mistake
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I think the more generations the diaspora lives away from India, the less departed they are from the roots. American Indians are mostly (majority) from 70s-80, so they are all first generation Indian millenials and they have grown up in first generation families still having ties to India. 2nd / 3rd generation starts to fade away as in the case of Brits. Look the Caribbean/Fiji Indians, they are least connected to the idea of India.

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I always find this theory that 2nd or 3rd or nth generation of Indian diaspora in whichever country rejecting their roots rather odd

Majority still continue to celebrate their bond to India culturally and religiously, in terms of food, festival, clothes and songs 

 

Go to South Africa (btw country with biggest Indian origin population outside India), Malaysia, UK, Trinidad or even freaking Bangkok..Sikhs, Tamils, Gujjus, who hardly have any blood links to India but continue to celebrate India and its traditions 

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1 hour ago, chewy said:

I always find this theory that 2nd or 3rd or nth generation of Indian diaspora in whichever country rejecting their roots rather odd

Majority still continue to celebrate their bond to India culturally and religiously, in terms of food, festival, clothes and songs 

 

Go to South Africa (btw country with biggest Indian origin population outside India), Malaysia, UK, Trinidad or even freaking Bangkok..Sikhs, Tamils, Gujjus, who hardly have any blood links to India but continue to celebrate India and its traditions 

I agree, I went to Mauritius last year and the Indians there still speak Hindi, wear saris and go to the Mandir despite their ancestors leaving India 150 years ago.

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