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Avesh Khan bowling close to 150 k in IPL 2018

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Ideally we should keep them injury free so that he keep his speed up. Everyone knows how quick Ishant, Munaf, Nehra and Zaheer was when they started out. Only Zaheer could make it to the end and that too bowling at reduced pace.

Option B is to have a bunch of players who could bowl over 150 and accurate and keep them in case somebody gets injured. I think we are moving in this direction. Either way we need to get 20 wickets outside Asia and that is the only way we are gonna win away from home.

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Everyone knows how quick Ishant, Munaf, Nehra and Zaheer was when they started out. Only Zaheer could make it to the end and that too bowling at reduced pace.

 

Yes .... seamers losing pace after 2 to 4 years was a serious problem we had in the 2000s decade. As you mentioned, Zaheer, Nehra and Munaf all lost pace.

 

Thankfully, this issue was identified and worked on in the 2010s decade.  We have had Umesh bowling at full pace for 6 years, Shami is bowling at full pace after 5 years and multiple injuries and Bhuvi had added pace after 4  years in international cricket. The strength and conditioning coaches are really good now right from U19 level, NCA to the national team. Mindsets have improved too among pacers and they want to bowl quick nowadays. Competition also plays a big part in quicks sustaining pace there days.

 

 

Option B is to have a bunch of players who could bowl over 150 and accurate and keep them in case somebody gets injured. I think we are moving in this direction.

Having a pool of quick pacers is a must .

 

 

Either way we need to get 20 wickets outside Asia and that is the only way we are gonna win away from home.

 

:nice:

Edited by express bowling

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Nothing special. Seems to be a another fast bolwer like umesh & shami. He will join national side as soon as he will leave.:cantstop: India still could'nt produce consistent world class fast bowlers like pakistan did. Still our bowling resources are way ahead. 

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Nothing special. Seems to be a another fast bolwer like umesh & shami. He will join national side as soon as he will leave.:cantstop: India still could'nt produce consistent world class fast bowlers like pakistan did. Still our bowling resources are way ahead. 

How many world class fast bowlers did Pakistan produce? 

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How many world class fast bowlers did Pakistan produce? 

Fazal Mahmood, Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Razzak, Gul, etc

 

Amir and Hasan Ali are our future of world class.

 

Ok now tell me How many in India? :cantstop:

Edited by Lala

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Fazal Mahmood, Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Razzak, Gul, etc

 

Amir and Hasan Ali are our future of world class.

 

Ok now tell me How many in India? :cantstop:

What is your definition of world class , what criteria ?

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What is your definition of world class , what criteria ?

Criteria is if a bowler is a legend that fans accept where then they are called as world class. Not only pakistan there are world class bowlers in other countries as well. Example:McGrath, Lee, Donald, Walsh, Marshal, lillee, etc

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Adding to that, fans never easily accept as world class, so bowlers need to show their consistent performance at a high. 

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Nothing special. Seems to be a another fast bolwer like umesh & shami. He will join national side as soon as he will leave.:cantstop: India still could'nt produce consistent world class fast bowlers like pakistan did. Still our bowling resources are way ahead. 

Teri jali na:rotfl: India has better and faster bowlers than pakistan, in fact we have some of the fastest bowlers in the world while phateecharstan has to be satisfied with trundler ali and phateechar amir:hysterical: 

Your phateechar nation can't even produce fast bowlers anymore since modern day cameras rendered ball tampering almost impossible :hehe:

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Nothing special. Seems to be a another fast bolwer like umesh & shami. He will join national side as soon as he will leave.:cantstop: India still could'nt produce consistent world class fast bowlers like pakistan did. Still our bowling resources are way ahead. 

1 min ke liye maan bhi lu, the fact is they are not going to next level......kya faida

Where is mohd irfan?

Juniad , amir none have been same what they came in ?

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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Nothing special. Seems to be a another fast bolwer like umesh & shami. He will join national side as soon as he will leave.:cantstop: India still could'nt produce consistent world class fast bowlers like pakistan did. Still our bowling resources are way ahead. 

 

It is true that Pakistan have produced better fast bowlers than India till 2010 or thereabouts. There is no question about it. 

 

It is also true that India have developed a strong fast bowling culture in the 2010s decade.  Young pacers all over India want to bowl 145 k or more, want to hit the deck hard, want to be fit and strong, want to hit the gym. And results are showing. We now have 14 or 15 pacers who can cross 145 k any day and another 7 who can cross 140 k on any day.  There are some good swing bowlers too.

 

More importantly, we now have 3 pacers who average less than 29 in test matches ... and 2 quicks who average less than 26 in ODIs.

 

The present and future looks really bright ... and I,  personally,  would choose a really good present and future over past glory.

 

 

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Teri jali na:rotfl: India has better and faster bowlers than pakistan, in fact we have some of the fastest bowlers in the world while phateecharstan has to be satisfied with trundler ali and phateechar amir:hysterical: 

Who are your fastest, may be medium spinner bhuvi (even afridi bowls faster than him :cantstop:), mindless hardick who cant even a bowl an over without conceding a boundry:cantstop:, Bumrah the no ball master :cantstop: and Unadkat the indian starc wale :cantstop:

 

Abeh trolling se pahele apnee team ko pahele dekhen :finger: 

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1 min ke liye maan bhi lu, the fact is they are not going to next level......kya faida

Where is mohd irfan?

Juniad , amir none have been same what they came in ?

 

They were poor to show consistent performance so they are not world class :cantstop:

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Razzak! stop doing Mazzak :cantstop: 

269 wickets in ODIs and 100 wickets in Test. How many indian phast bowlers did that? :cantstop:

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Fazal Mahmood, Sarfraz Nawaz, Imran Khan, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Razzak, Gul, etc

 

Amir and Hasan Ali are our future of world class.

 

Ok now tell me How many in India? :cantstop:

Accepted! They were world class. I would give credit to Fazal Mahmood and count him as class because he was one of the pioneers for Pakistan in fast medium bowling. 

Sarfaraz was very controversial, razzak was an average bowler, gul was better than average.

 

Imran Khan was the game changer for Pakistan though. He mentored Wasim and Waqar. But after these 4, Pakistan hasnt been able to carry its legacy. On the other hand, while Indians still produce good to great batsmen, they have turned their weakness to their strength and we now have numerous bowlers who can be called classy. 

The gap has been reducing since 2000 and now India is just ahead. Going forward, it will be tough for Pakistan to match India's fast bowling resources. 

It is sad, to be honest. We want the subcontinent to produce exciting cricketers. Its good for the game and its good for the subcontinent. And don't get me wrong, I love Amir. however, the world doesnt rate Amir, just the way it doesnt rate Ishant Sharma. 

Hassan Ali has scope, but its too early to judge. Let's give him 2 years.

 

Btw, let's use this forum for constructive discussion instead of this whataboutery. 

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Who are your fastest, may be medium spinner bhuvi (even afridi bowls faster than him :cantstop:), mindless hardick who cant even a bowl an over without conceding a boundry:cantstop:, Bumrah the no ball master :cantstop: and Unadkat the indian starc wale :cantstop:

 

Abeh trolling se pahele apnee team ko pahele dekhen :finger: 

Bhuvi is better and faster than 99% of the bowlers you have ever produced, Bumrah is the no. 1 odi bowler in the world abey bhonke ne se pehle bumrah ki ranking to dekh leta, Shami is the best asian fast bowler playing currently, even a useless unadkat is way better than your phateechar amir, abey muh kholne se pehle apni bowling ki aukaat to dekh :finger: 

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Imran Khan was the game changer for Pakistan though. He mentored Wasim and Waqar. But after these 4, Pakistan hasnt been able to carry its legacy. On the other hand, while Indians still produce good to great batsmen, they have turned their weakness to their strength and we now have numerous bowlers who can be called classy. 

The gap has been reducing since 2000 and now India is just ahead. Going forward, it will be tough for Pakistan to match India's fast bowling resources

 

Some what of your comments I agree but above highlighted areas are disagree.

 

1. Pakistan hasnt been able to carry its legacy - Pakistan always produce world class fast bowlers and there is a huge competition among bowlers (unlike india) to be in the side. So best will be picked. Example is junaid & irfan who are unable to find places in the side due to not consistent performances. Our PSL produced lot of new talent. Also note there can't be fast bowlers alone win matches without spinners. We have kept producing great spinners like Yasir Shah,Shadab Khan,etc.

 

2. we now have numerous bowlers who can be called classy. - Based on domestic performances like IPL non of your bowlers are classy. 11 Crore IPL bowler was trashed during last international T20 series by lower rank side like Bangladesh. So IPL performance cannot compare with international performance and never assume.

 

3. it will be tough for Pakistan to match India's fast bowling resources. - I have a simple question, why those resources couldnt restrict weak batting line up like pakistan in CT final? However our resources were able to defend that target  convincingly. :cantstop:

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Some what of your comments I agree but above highlighted areas are disagree.

 

1. Pakistan hasnt been able to carry its legacy - Pakistan always produce world class fast bowlers and there is a huge competition among bowlers (unlike india) to be in the side. So best will be picked. Example is junaid & irfan who are unable to find places in the side due to not consistent performances. Our PSL produced lot of new talent. Also note there can't be fast bowlers alone win matches without spinners. We have kept producing great spinners like Yasir Shah,Shadab Khan,etc.

 

2. we now have numerous bowlers who can be called classy. - Based on domestic performances like IPL non of your bowlers are classy. 11 Crore IPL bowler was trashed during last international T20 series by lower rank side like Bangladesh. So IPL performance cannot compare with international performance and never assume.

 

3. it will be tough for Pakistan to match India's fast bowling resources. - I have a simple question, why those resources couldnt restrict weak batting line up like pakistan in CT final? However our resources were able to defend that target  convincingly. :cantstop:

Point 1 - Currently, the fast bowling pool of Pakistan is poor. Not only are all the bowlers medium fast to fast medium, they dont have quality. Apart from Hassan and to a little extent Amir, there are none who are going to carry your team. So don't close your eyes to the obvious.

 

Point 2- I think you havent watched the matches or just been to biased watching it.

 

Point 3- The world didnt end with CT finals. That was just one day and btw, our best bowlers were not playing in the team. 

 

You can close your eyes to the facts and be in your dream land, or you can just face the facts. The choice is yours.

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Bhuvi is better and faster than 99% of the bowlers you have ever produced, Bumrah is the no. 1 odi bowler in the world abey bhonke ne se pehle bumrah ki ranking to dekh leta, Shami is the best asian fast bowler playing currently, even a useless unadkat is way better than your phateechar amir, abey muh kholne se pehle apni bowling ki aukaat to dekh :finger: 

 Ok troller you and your phateechar bowlers won the thread. :clap:Happy now? :cantstop: I dont have time to discuss important things with a troller like you. We need to behave like adults here rather like brainless kids. Anyway still I cant stop my laugh for what you mentioned earlier about your phast bowlers. :hysterical: Nice joke yaar. keep it up.:two_thumbs_up:

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 Ok troller you and your phateechar bowlers won the thread. :clap:Happy now? :cantstop: I dont have time to discuss important things with a troller like you. We need to behave like adults here rather like brainless kids. Anyway still I cant stop my laugh for what you mentioned earlier about your phast bowlers. :hysterical: Nice joke yaar. keep it up.:two_thumbs_up:

heheh bhaag gya , abey jaate jaate ye to bata amir ki ranking kya hai :hysterical: I'll give you a hint, that phateechar isn't even in the top 20 in any format :hehe:

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Point 3- The world didnt end with CT finals. That was just one day and btw, our best bowlers were not playing in the team. 

 

Who are your best bowlers then?:cantstop: Its a final and everybody knows that team will pick their best bowlers to grab that trophy. BTW don't close your eyes without accepting the real facts. :cantstop:

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heheh bhaag gya , abey jaate jaate ye to bata amir ki ranking kya ha:hysterical: I'll give you a hint, that phateechar isn't even in the top 20 in any format :hehe:

He was in the rankings when he came to international cricket you were a kid those days dont know much about cricket :cantstop:.  He will again come to top 10 bowlers soon. Watch out you troller :cantstop:

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Avesh Khan can bowl quick alright. The question is

1. Will he continue to bowl quick if he gets an injury and comes back later

2. Can he bowl the right line and length consistently to build up pressure

3. Can he guage the batsmen and know how to build a trap for him

Some bowlers are ok with no.1 question. 2 and 3 best one we had was Kapil Dev and Zaheer Khan.

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3. it will be tough for Pakistan to match India's fast bowling resources. - I have a simple question, why those resources couldnt restrict weak batting line up like pakistan in CT final? However our resources were able to defend that target  convincingly:cantstop:

What a stupid question .India defeated West Indies in 1983 when they had Roberts , Holding , Garner and Marshall , while India had  Kapil , Amarnath , Sandhu and Binny.Now which person in right mind will say that Indian bowling attack was better

 

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What a stupid question .India defeated West Indies in 1983 when they had Roberts , Holding , Garner and Marshall , while India had  Kapil , Amarnath , Sandhu and Binny.Now which person in right mind will say that Indian bowling attack was better

 

Ok you tell me how many indian bowlers career finished by other batsmen? In Pakistan there are non of fast bowlers career was finished by batsmen. But in India specially everybody knows careers of prabakar,venki,RP,ect were destroyed by other countries batsmen like jayasuriya. So can you tell me why then your so called better bowlers couldn't survive against mediocre player like jayasuriya where he was all the way ducks when he faced to Waqar and Wasim. :cantstop:

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Criteria is if a bowler is a legend that fans accept where then they are called as world class. Not only pakistan there are world class bowlers in other countries as well. Example:McGrath, Lee, Donald, Walsh, Marshal, lillee, etc

Razzaq is not accepted by non-Pakistanis as a "great" bowler.  He was a very useful allrounder who's more famous for his slogging than his trundlery bowling.  Was he able to to bowl quick early on? sure.  But by no means does he count as a "great bowler".  Just like the likes of Barbie Azum isn't a top class bat.  Whether delusional greenbros can digest that fact or not, is not really relevant.

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Ok you tell me how many indian bowlers career finished by other batsmen? In Pakistan there are non of fast bowlers career was finished by batsmen. But in India specially everybody knows careers of prabakar,venki,RP,ect were destroyed by other countries batsmen like jayasuriya. So can you tell me why then your so called better bowlers couldn't survive against mediocre player like jayasuriya where he was all the way ducks when he faced to Waqar and Wasim. :cantstop:

Wasim and Waqar are accepted as Great by most cricket experts.I just asked you about Gul and Razzaq , you did not reply, then I read about you bragging of just 1 game of CT , so I show you example of 1983 when Indian bowling and even batting was way below Windies but still India emerged as Champions

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2. we now have numerous bowlers who can be called classy. - Based on domestic performances like IPL non of your bowlers are classy. 11 Crore IPL bowler was trashed during last international T20 series by lower rank side like Bangladesh. So IPL performance cannot compare with international performance and never assume.

 

 

 

Bowlers are gauged based on international cricket.

 

In tests we have 3 pacers who average less than 29  now.

 

In ODIs, we have 2 pacers who average less than 26 now.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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This thread is not about Pakistani seamers ... but the Pakistani gentleman is derailing it.

 

This thread is about Avesh Khan.

 

On 30th April, Avesh bowled superbly. 

 

In a match where the opposition had scored at 10.5  rpo ... with Boult and Plunkett being super expensive ...  Avesh gave away just 7 rpo.

 

He was difficult to get away, whether it was Faf, Watson or Dhoni batting.

 

He was bowling good inswinging yorkers, getting steep bounce off length balls too and bowled in good areas at high pace.

 

I liked his good length channel deliveries.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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@express bowling bro in one of your thread(Speed and performance) I had a query about Avesh Khan bowling 150 k in a practice match against touring Aussies early last year that whether the delivery was legitimate? I read he bowled at searing pace in the match.Many said it might be a glitch but I was quite sure that Avesh had pace..it is proved in this ipl

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Wasim and Waqar are accepted as Great by most cricket experts.I just asked you about Gul and Razzaq , you did not reply, then I read about you bragging of just 1 game of CT , so I show you example of 1983 when Indian bowling and even batting was way below Windies but still India emerged as Champions

The lack of reply means Gul and Razzaq were ordinary bowlers not in the league of Wasim/Waqar. Wasim was not express but in the 135-145 range. And he hid the ball and with a quick arm action can deceive any batsmen and especially he didnt let the tail wag. Teams can go from 250/6 and all out for 270.

I like how he slips gul and razzaq into the atg bowlers list and babar azam into kohli, smith, abdv, williamson list. anything to suit his agenda :phehe:

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Ok you tell me how many indian bowlers career finished by other batsmen? In Pakistan there are non of fast bowlers career was finished by batsmen. But in India specially everybody knows careers of prabakar,venki,RP,ect were destroyed by other countries batsmen like jayasuriya. So can you tell me why then your so called better bowlers couldn't survive against mediocre player like jayasuriya where he was all the way ducks when he faced to Waqar and Wasim. :cantstop:

Jaysuriya  mauled Wasim waqar to dust as well but as usual the delusional Neighbours are blindfolded to those facts they keep on pointing Indians and mocking, this is where there fans are ATGs..we moved on but the green algaes kept  living in past ...

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On 5/1/2018 at 11:57 AM, kira said:

Teri jali na:rotfl: India has better and faster bowlers than pakistan, in fact we have some of the fastest bowlers in the world while phateecharstan has to be satisfied with trundler ali and phateechar amir:hysterical: 

Your phateechar nation can't even produce fast bowlers anymore since modern day cameras rendered ball tampering almost impossible :hehe:

 

Forget about cricket.

 

aap sai koi tameez wali baat bhi hoti hah yah nahi?

 

 

Edited by Bilal78

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On 5/2/2018 at 7:46 AM, Suhaan said:

Jaysuriya  mauled Wasim waqar to dust as well but as usual the delusional Neighbours are blindfolded to those facts they keep on pointing Indians and mocking, this is where there fans are ATGs..we moved on but the green algaes kept  living in past ...

 

No, it depends on the mauling really, Waqar and Wasim were mauled but they were never reduced to the levels of bowling off spin.

 

We admit that you have moved on but it’s unlogical and stupid how you compare your 1990s bowlers to perhaps one of the finest bowling partnership in cricket history, I admit that the Indian current team is better than the current Pakistan team whilst I also admit that India is also producing faster bowlers currently but the fact is that Pakistan has produced better bowlers than India throughout every decade although it’s starting to even out.

 

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seems like the debate has gone nowhere -

 

ipl is giving great incentive for young kids to bowl - its easier to bowl fast or bowl spin then to be a quality bat ( gestation period , years of training and exposure - an avg bat will take about 600 matches to become world class ) a wasim akram can just go and bowl and become world class ..

 

now reason india started producimg fast bolers is bcci- the support to come back after injury was never there . pakistanis were blessed to have stronger built bowlers . indian bowlers are still not as strongly built but are being bred .. 

 

if u breed you will have a consistent lineup - go anywhere in india and u will see kids wanting to bowl fast - 

 

pakistan will have some good bowlers always and will win here and there . but last 10 years india has clearly performed well across all three formarts and bcci will ensure the factory doesnt stop

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Question is how many fast bowlers did anybody produce without using Teeth, Soda Caps and Sandpaper.

It has been about 5 years since the video cameras are prominent and we all know who is producing what dont be.

 

 

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13 hours ago, kohli said:

Last 2 match

2 over 36 run

This match was reduced to 12 overs when DD were bowling. There was a rain break, the field was wet and it was difficult for the bowlers to grip the ball or bowl yorkers.

 

13 hours ago, kohli said:

3 over 47

Even kohli will not leak this much run.

 

He bowled badly in this match. Inexperience showed.

 

But it happens to the best in the business or experienced bowlers even. Plunkett  went at 17 runs per over in a previous match. Boult gave away 12 runs per over in that match. There are lots of such examples.

 

T20 is an unforgiving format for bowlers and even lower order batsmen.  The inexperienced are affected more.

 

IPL should be used to identify young bowling talent

.... for pacers,  check their action, run-up, pace, bounce, ability to move the ball, ability to bowl yorkers and bouncers etc.  

.... for spinners , check ther abilty to spin the ball, their googly doosra, the zip and bounce they are getting off the deck etc.

 

That is about it.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, express bowling said:

This match was reduced to 12 overs when DD were bowling. There was a rain break, the field was wet and it was difficult for the bowlers to grip the ball or bowl yorkers.

 

 

He bowled badly in this match. Inexperience showed.

 

But it happens to the best in the business or experienced bowlers even. Plunkett  went at 17 runs per over in a previous match. Boult gave away 12 runs per over in that match. There are lots of such examples.

 

T20 is an unforgiving format for bowlers and even lower order batsmen.  The inexperienced are affected more.

 

IPL should be used to identify young bowling talent

.... for pacers,  check their action, run-up, pace, bounce, ability to move the ball, ability to bowl yorkers and bouncers etc.  

.... for spinners , check ther abilty to spin the ball, their googly doosra, the zip and bounce they are getting off the deck etc.

 

That is about it.

 

 

Yes ipl is a showcase one should spot the talent and appreciate it,as the format doesn't spare even the best 

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1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Yes ipl is a showcase one should spot the talent and appreciate it,as the format doesn't spare even the best 

 

52 minutes ago, Bilal78 said:

Avesh is fast but his captain needs to use him as his main weapon.

 

He is about 143-147 consistently which is very impressive and given that he can go up by 1 to 3 more kph he could be classed as a genuine out and out fast bowler.

 

Exactly. 

 

Talent is identified . Now it should be groomed properly and with extra attention to get the final product.

 

A really tall bouncy bowler bowling with genuine pace is rare from the subcontinent. ( We typically get quick pacers who are 5'8" to 6'1" range ...  Akram, Srinath, D.Fernando, Ishant and Md. Irfan  are exceptions  )

 

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To be honest even Mavi is better than Avesh. A few kms slower but more accurate. I get the feeling that Avesh is content by just bowling quick, which would have worked until now but not at this level.

 

Edited by The Dark Horse

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1 hour ago, The Dark Horse said:

To be honest even Mavi is better than Avesh. A few kms slower but more accurate. I get the feeling that Avesh is content by just bowling quick, which would have worked until now but not at this level.

 

 

If India groom and invest money on Mavi, Nagarkoti and Avesh than the result will be that atleast one will turn out into a WC bowler as all three are around the 140-148 kph mark constantly whilst they can touch 150as they are still young bowlers.

 

The Captains and Coaches of these players will have a hand on the final outcome of promising players.

 

Even Shardul Thakur, Siraj, KM Asif, Khejroliya, Navdeep Saini and a few others can also be groomed as replacements as they have good pace.

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