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Jinnah portrait row in Aligarh Muslim University


Gollum

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Heavy violence now between AMU students on one side and UP police/RW activists on the other side....scores injured, some critically. Apparently it has been hanging there since 1938 when he got his lifetime membership in some union of theirs. Violence started when local outfits wanted that portrait removed but AMU student's union denied the request. Jinnah neither studied in AMU, nor did he have any teaching post there..so surprising (or not for obvious reasons?) to see the sentimental attachment students have for him. AMU has been in the news for all the wrong reasons in recent times, be it students joining jihadi organizations or violence in student body elections. Your take? IMO we need to put a stop on these things somewhere, else in the future we'll have Burhan Wani portraits in Srinagar Uni, Bhindranwale portraits in Punjab Uni etc. I also don't condone portraits of Godse in educational institutes if they exist presently....he too was a terrorist. Jinnah wasn't a terrorist per se and I am thankful to him for getting Muslims a separate land and allowing us to be in peace...I actually agree with him that Hindus and Muslims can't co exist, in fact I will take it a step further and say Muslims can't coexist peacefully with people from any religion- Jews, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains. In that sense I think partition was a necessary step even though millions suffered, long term me achcha hua else imagine an undivided India with 35-40% Muslims and 10 Muslim majority provinces. Having said that AMU was the fulcrum where the idea of breaking India was initiated, can't take chance with such a place again.

 

I believe this situation should have been handled more tactfully without causing injuries to students but AMU guys are clearly being deliberately provocative. Both AMU and Jamia Milia have been treated with kid gloves for so long, their arrogance and stance on certain issues of national interest is astounding. I can understand such activities in Kashmir but in Indian heartland no way.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/violence-at-amu-over-jinnah-portrait/articleshow/64002818.cms

 

https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/violence-breaks-out-at-aligarh-muslim-university-campus-over-muhammad-ali-jinnahs-portrait/1153542/

Edited by Gollum
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Top post. Just have a look at the faces of these nincompoops when asked about the partition of India & how graduates from these institutions were instrumental in achieving their cause. Is it a lie that Muslims from those areas who go gaga over Ganga-Jamuni Tehzeeb voted in huge numbers in favor of Muslim League in the 40s?

Students of these institutions have been heckling guest lecturers who represent opposite views for quite sometime now.

Edited by Turning_track
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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Heavy violence now between AMU students on one side and UP police/RW activists on the other side....scores injured, some critically. Apparently it has been hanging there since 1938 when he got his lifetime membership in some union of theirs. Violence started when local outfits wanted that portrait removed but AMU student's union denied the request. Jinnah neither studied in AMU, nor did he have any teaching post there..so surprising (or not for obvious reasons?) to see the sentimental attachment students have for him. AMU has been in the news for all the wrong reasons in recent times, be it students joining jihadi organizations or violence in student body elections. Your take? IMO we need to put a stop on these things somewhere, else in the future we'll have Burhan Wani portraits in Srinagar Uni, Bhindranwale portraits in Punjab Uni etc. I also don't condone portraits of Godse in educational institutes if they exist presently....he too was a terrorist. Jinnah wasn't a terrorist per se and I am thankful to him for getting Muslims a separate land and allowing us to be in peace...I actually agree with him that Hindus and Muslims can't co exist, in fact I will take it a step further and say Muslims can't coexist peacefully with people from any religion- Jews, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains. In that sense I think partition was a necessary step even though millions suffered, long term me achcha hua else imagine an undivided India with 35-40% Muslims and 10 Muslim majority provinces. Having said that AMU was the fulcrum where the idea of breaking India was initiated, can't take chance with such a place again.

 

I believe this situation should have been handled more tactfully without causing injuries to students but AMU guys are clearly being deliberately provocative. Both AMU and Jamia Milia have been treated with kid gloves for so long, their arrogance and stance on certain issues of national interest is astounding. I can understand such activities in Kashmir but in Indian heartland no way.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/violence-at-amu-over-jinnah-portrait/articleshow/64002818.cms

 

https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/violence-breaks-out-at-aligarh-muslim-university-campus-over-muhammad-ali-jinnahs-portrait/1153542/

Actually the Mastermind behind Pakistan

were Urdu speaking UP Muslims .The Punjabi Muslims were quite secular and were voting more in favour of unionist party over Muslim league.Unfortunately 

Most of  UP muslims them remained in India

Edited by Singh bling
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1 hour ago, Stradlater said:

Why would you want a picture of Jinnah of all people to be hanging there? 

Isn't the idea behind Indian Muslims staying here was that they were opposed to his two nation theory? How does it help their cause in this case?

90% of them voted in favour of Muslim league in 45-46 elections then how were they opposed to two nation theory

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6 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

90% of them voted in favour of Muslim league in 45-46 elections then how were they opposed to two nation theory

Won't judge them on that. The franchise was pretty low and probably around only 10 percent were eligible to vote.

They did stay in India thus rejecting the two nation theory.

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10 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Won't judge them on that. The franchise was pretty low and probably around only 10 percent were eligible to vote.

They did stay in India thus rejecting the two nation theory.

How do you figure?

 

Two sets : Those that stayed in India, Those that rejected it. 

A+B =/= 1 because you can stay in India and reject it and vice versa. You may also not be aware of this classification. I can go on.

ROPers like to present this binary to unsuspecting ignoramuses. This is class 8 maths...

Edited by surajmal
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9 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Won't judge them on that. The franchise was pretty low and probably around only 10 percent were eligible to vote.

They did stay in India thus rejecting the two nation theory.

And by that logic we can say Gandhi was no mass leader???The fact is Congress even won  in 1951 elections as they were winning before that .

 

As far staying is concerned 22.7% was population of Hindu's in East Pakistan in 1951 , which means they were supporting Pakistan??

 

As long as people are safe of whatever religion they belong they don't migrate.

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@Gollum

Apparently that portrait of Jinnah has been in AMU from before the time the two nation theory came to be. Yes, Jinnah doesn't deserve to be on the wall of an Indian educational institute. But the bigger issue here is; what about the mob which came from outside the campus to have it removed (or so says the press)? That is a much bigger issue than the portrait itself.

 

I heard a sound byte from Yogiji saying that the portrait has no place in our society. Why not argue that in a court and coerce AMU to have it removed legally. The UGC spends a lot (100 cr or so, I believe) on AMU. The government can hurt them where it hurts, if AMU fails to comply.

 

Re: your other point about Hindus and Muslims not being able to live together. That is Jinnah speak. Then you too subscribe to his two nation theory. That theory was shown its place in 1971. It is also debunked everyday in modern day India, where Hindus and Muslims live, work and flourish together. Our lives and businesses are deeply intertwined and held together by our faith in our democratic institutions. 

 

If anything, the rampant radicalization/extremism (wrt either community) that one sees on social media is hardly an indicator of how Indian society thinks. 

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52 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Re: your other point about Hindus and Muslims not being able to live together. That is Jinnah speak. Then you too subscribe to his two nation theory. That theory was shown its place in 1971. It is also debunked everyday in modern day India, where Hindus and Muslims live, work and flourish together. Our lives and businesses are deeply intertwined and held together by our faith in our democratic institutions. 

 

You are wrong here.After 70 years of independence.Hindu and Muslims are still fighting . Every other day there are riots .Religion is centre stage at every issue.This clearly prooves Hindu and Muslims can't live together

 

The type of Hindu and Muslims that can live together are if one or both are semi, loosely or non practicing their religion once they both start strictly practicing the dispute is unavoidable

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2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@Gollum

Apparently that portrait of Jinnah has been in AMU from before the time the two nation theory came to be. Yes, Jinnah doesn't deserve to be on the wall of an Indian educational institute. But the bigger issue here is; what about the mob which came from outside the campus to have it removed (or so says the press)? That is a much bigger issue than the portrait itself.

Re: your other point about Hindus and Muslims not being able to live together. That is Jinnah speak. Then you too subscribe to his two nation theory. That theory was shown its place in 1971. It is also debunked everyday in modern day India, where Hindus and Muslims live, work and flourish together. Our lives and businesses are deeply intertwined and held together by our faith in our democratic institutions. 

1st para: In my opening post I acknowledged that the portrait has been there since 1938. I also mentioned that the situation should have been handled tactfully and students shouldn't have been beaten.

 

2nd para: May be among the elites these Hindu-Muslim issues don't matter much. But for a large majority of Indians, I believe it is an issue. There is just way too much historical baggage and hatred inbuilt over centuries, I agree with Jinnah that these 2 communities can't coexist. Communal violence between Hindus and Muslims is 1200 years old and crores of lives have been lost...we can't stay in denial. Last 70 years see how many Hindu-Muslim riots have happened in India. Thousands right? Wonder why there haven't been many Hindu-Sikh or Hindu-Christian riots? Muslims can't get houses in most Hindu areas, Hindus either can't get or refuse to stay in Muslim areas. So much ghettoization, villages are formed based on religion and even for employment religion matters. I think it is delusional to say that Hindus and Muslims flourish together. I don't think Muslims can flourish with people from any any other religion except in certain Central Asian countries where religion has been tightly regulated by higher authorities. I am sorry if my post is harsh but even 2 sects of Muslims refuse to coexist in countries with 99% Muslim population, what chance do other religions have.......reality is staring at us. Muslims can thrive in Hindu areas but is the converse possible? Kashmir valley has driven away all Pandits and being from Bengal I see the ground situation in Murshidabad, Malda etc. North Kerala is Muslim majority region and guess what they always vote for a religious party IUML. Malayalis in other areas alternate between CPM and Congress...in fact that has always been the case in their electoral history. Only exception is North Kerala where other parties never stand a chance. Do you think there is a single Hindu majority constituency in India where right from independence only a Hindu based party has won? Do you think AIMIM will ever lose in Old Hyderabad? That is because majority Muslims only think in terms of religion unlike every other religion in India. This so called faith in democratic institutions is only because Muslims believe it as an OK alternative to a benevolent Hindu despot ruling over all and sundry...in a democracy there are checks/balances and Hindus are a fragmented lot. Very few people believe in Hindu-Muslim bhaichara eg Mallus. They may boast about Kerala's secular atmosphere and all that stuff but can they explain why Muslim majority Malabar region votes in a certain rigid manner? Can they explain why Moplah rebellion turned into a full fledged anti Hindu pogrom in spite of no provocation by the other party?

 

Finally I don't see how Jinnah's theory is disproved by 1971? There were many aspects like political, logistical, geographical, cultural and human rights violations (mainly against Bengali Hindus) that led to the war and when India entered, it was impossible for Pak to hold on to land separated by 2000 km. Jinnah's 2 nation theory stands vindicated because even today majority Bangladeshis prefer fellow Muslim Pakistan over the country that took in 10 million refugees and fought their war. Hindu population which was 14% in 1971 is less than 8% today and fast dwindling. Statisticians have already concluded that in 30 years time there will no longer be any Hindus left in Bangladesh (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/No-Hindus-will-be-left-in-Bangladesh-after-30-years-professor/article16675228.ece). India with 8-13% Muslim pop over the years has had Muslim Presidents, CMs, CJIs, cine superstars, cricket captains, business tycoons, top bureaucrats, Air Force/Navy chiefs, nuclear project heads...........can a Bangladesh or any other Muslim majority country for that matter offer minorities so many opportunities to attain excellence/fame/money/power? I know of Christian majority countries doing better than even us on this front (minorities) but not a single Muslim majority country. Wonder why? As I said I agree with Jinnah but will take it a step further by saying that Muslims can't coexist with folk from any other religion, not just Hindus. Even in a comparatively tolerant Islamic country like Indonesia, this trend is visible, check out what happened to that Christian mayor who had to step down in spite of doing a splendid job just because of his religion. World is slowly awakening to this reality and that also is one of the main reasons behind emergence of far-RW forces in Europe and America.  

 

I understand completely that my post is very uncouth but I am just blurting out my honest opinion, no filters whatsoever. I like you because you are a very rare breed among Muslims, probably an outlier Muslim...may be your environment and education have molded you into such a person. I respect you and know for sure that you are a wonderful person with an ideal way of thinking, but I have a different outlook. I don't mind being called anti Muslim or bigot or those fancy terms in current use...I am not budging from my view points. 

Edited by Gollum
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Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

Edited by Gollum
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34 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

For how long India will Avoid the inevitable conflict.The stupidity of Nehru and other congress leaders will one day bring the results

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42 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

This needs to spread for the casteist chewtiyapa to dissolve and sleeping masses to wake up. ROPers are a stupid lot. They need to learn from ROLers and play the long game. Bharat wide Azaadi movement will result in a counter reaction so severe that what happened in Iberia more than a 1000 yrs ago will seem like a slap on the wrist to the momeen. Just remember who controls the state machinery. 

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53 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

there will be an inevitable civil war in India.... get ready for it in the future. the election of modi and re-election in 2019 will just accelerate it. 

Edited by FischerTal
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6 hours ago, Singh bling said:

For how long India will Avoid the inevitable conflict.The stupidity of Nehru and other congress leaders will one day bring the results

Oh my! 

Imagine something of this sort happening in America. The Govt would have crushed and sent these peacefuls straight to G bay before they could even blurt out about human rights violations.

@surajmal What's the point of having a supposed Hindutva govt at the centre when you have these pigs openly indulging in treason? 

@Muloghonto What do you suggest?

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