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Gollum

Jinnah portrait row in Aligarh Muslim University

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Heavy violence now between AMU students on one side and UP police/RW activists on the other side....scores injured, some critically. Apparently it has been hanging there since 1938 when he got his lifetime membership in some union of theirs. Violence started when local outfits wanted that portrait removed but AMU student's union denied the request. Jinnah neither studied in AMU, nor did he have any teaching post there..so surprising (or not for obvious reasons?) to see the sentimental attachment students have for him. AMU has been in the news for all the wrong reasons in recent times, be it students joining jihadi organizations or violence in student body elections. Your take? IMO we need to put a stop on these things somewhere, else in the future we'll have Burhan Wani portraits in Srinagar Uni, Bhindranwale portraits in Punjab Uni etc. I also don't condone portraits of Godse in educational institutes if they exist presently....he too was a terrorist. Jinnah wasn't a terrorist per se and I am thankful to him for getting Muslims a separate land and allowing us to be in peace...I actually agree with him that Hindus and Muslims can't co exist, in fact I will take it a step further and say Muslims can't coexist peacefully with people from any religion- Jews, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains. In that sense I think partition was a necessary step even though millions suffered, long term me achcha hua else imagine an undivided India with 35-40% Muslims and 10 Muslim majority provinces. Having said that AMU was the fulcrum where the idea of breaking India was initiated, can't take chance with such a place again.

 

I believe this situation should have been handled more tactfully without causing injuries to students but AMU guys are clearly being deliberately provocative. Both AMU and Jamia Milia have been treated with kid gloves for so long, their arrogance and stance on certain issues of national interest is astounding. I can understand such activities in Kashmir but in Indian heartland no way.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/violence-at-amu-over-jinnah-portrait/articleshow/64002818.cms

 

https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/violence-breaks-out-at-aligarh-muslim-university-campus-over-muhammad-ali-jinnahs-portrait/1153542/

Edited by Gollum

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Top post. Just have a look at the faces of these nincompoops when asked about the partition of India & how graduates from these institutions were instrumental in achieving their cause. Is it a lie that Muslims from those areas who go gaga over Ganga-Jamuni Tehzeeb voted in huge numbers in favor of Muslim League in the 40s?

Students of these institutions have been heckling guest lecturers who represent opposite views for quite sometime now.

Edited by Turning_track

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Heavy violence now between AMU students on one side and UP police/RW activists on the other side....scores injured, some critically. Apparently it has been hanging there since 1938 when he got his lifetime membership in some union of theirs. Violence started when local outfits wanted that portrait removed but AMU student's union denied the request. Jinnah neither studied in AMU, nor did he have any teaching post there..so surprising (or not for obvious reasons?) to see the sentimental attachment students have for him. AMU has been in the news for all the wrong reasons in recent times, be it students joining jihadi organizations or violence in student body elections. Your take? IMO we need to put a stop on these things somewhere, else in the future we'll have Burhan Wani portraits in Srinagar Uni, Bhindranwale portraits in Punjab Uni etc. I also don't condone portraits of Godse in educational institutes if they exist presently....he too was a terrorist. Jinnah wasn't a terrorist per se and I am thankful to him for getting Muslims a separate land and allowing us to be in peace...I actually agree with him that Hindus and Muslims can't co exist, in fact I will take it a step further and say Muslims can't coexist peacefully with people from any religion- Jews, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains. In that sense I think partition was a necessary step even though millions suffered, long term me achcha hua else imagine an undivided India with 35-40% Muslims and 10 Muslim majority provinces. Having said that AMU was the fulcrum where the idea of breaking India was initiated, can't take chance with such a place again.

 

I believe this situation should have been handled more tactfully without causing injuries to students but AMU guys are clearly being deliberately provocative. Both AMU and Jamia Milia have been treated with kid gloves for so long, their arrogance and stance on certain issues of national interest is astounding. I can understand such activities in Kashmir but in Indian heartland no way.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/violence-at-amu-over-jinnah-portrait/articleshow/64002818.cms

 

https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/violence-breaks-out-at-aligarh-muslim-university-campus-over-muhammad-ali-jinnahs-portrait/1153542/

Actually the Mastermind behind Pakistan

were Urdu speaking UP Muslims .The Punjabi Muslims were quite secular and were voting more in favour of unionist party over Muslim league.Unfortunately 

Most of  UP muslims them remained in India

Edited by Singh bling

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1 hour ago, Stradlater said:

Why would you want a picture of Jinnah of all people to be hanging there? 

Isn't the idea behind Indian Muslims staying here was that they were opposed to his two nation theory? How does it help their cause in this case?

90% of them voted in favour of Muslim league in 45-46 elections then how were they opposed to two nation theory

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6 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

90% of them voted in favour of Muslim league in 45-46 elections then how were they opposed to two nation theory

Won't judge them on that. The franchise was pretty low and probably around only 10 percent were eligible to vote.

They did stay in India thus rejecting the two nation theory.

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10 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Won't judge them on that. The franchise was pretty low and probably around only 10 percent were eligible to vote.

They did stay in India thus rejecting the two nation theory.

How do you figure?

 

Two sets : Those that stayed in India, Those that rejected it. 

A+B =/= 1 because you can stay in India and reject it and vice versa. You may also not be aware of this classification. I can go on.

ROPers like to present this binary to unsuspecting ignoramuses. This is class 8 maths...

Edited by surajmal

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9 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Won't judge them on that. The franchise was pretty low and probably around only 10 percent were eligible to vote.

They did stay in India thus rejecting the two nation theory.

And by that logic we can say Gandhi was no mass leader???The fact is Congress even won  in 1951 elections as they were winning before that .

 

As far staying is concerned 22.7% was population of Hindu's in East Pakistan in 1951 , which means they were supporting Pakistan??

 

As long as people are safe of whatever religion they belong they don't migrate.

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@Gollum

Apparently that portrait of Jinnah has been in AMU from before the time the two nation theory came to be. Yes, Jinnah doesn't deserve to be on the wall of an Indian educational institute. But the bigger issue here is; what about the mob which came from outside the campus to have it removed (or so says the press)? That is a much bigger issue than the portrait itself.

 

I heard a sound byte from Yogiji saying that the portrait has no place in our society. Why not argue that in a court and coerce AMU to have it removed legally. The UGC spends a lot (100 cr or so, I believe) on AMU. The government can hurt them where it hurts, if AMU fails to comply.

 

Re: your other point about Hindus and Muslims not being able to live together. That is Jinnah speak. Then you too subscribe to his two nation theory. That theory was shown its place in 1971. It is also debunked everyday in modern day India, where Hindus and Muslims live, work and flourish together. Our lives and businesses are deeply intertwined and held together by our faith in our democratic institutions. 

 

If anything, the rampant radicalization/extremism (wrt either community) that one sees on social media is hardly an indicator of how Indian society thinks. 

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52 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Re: your other point about Hindus and Muslims not being able to live together. That is Jinnah speak. Then you too subscribe to his two nation theory. That theory was shown its place in 1971. It is also debunked everyday in modern day India, where Hindus and Muslims live, work and flourish together. Our lives and businesses are deeply intertwined and held together by our faith in our democratic institutions. 

 

You are wrong here.After 70 years of independence.Hindu and Muslims are still fighting . Every other day there are riots .Religion is centre stage at every issue.This clearly prooves Hindu and Muslims can't live together

 

The type of Hindu and Muslims that can live together are if one or both are semi, loosely or non practicing their religion once they both start strictly practicing the dispute is unavoidable

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2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@Gollum

Apparently that portrait of Jinnah has been in AMU from before the time the two nation theory came to be. Yes, Jinnah doesn't deserve to be on the wall of an Indian educational institute. But the bigger issue here is; what about the mob which came from outside the campus to have it removed (or so says the press)? That is a much bigger issue than the portrait itself.

Re: your other point about Hindus and Muslims not being able to live together. That is Jinnah speak. Then you too subscribe to his two nation theory. That theory was shown its place in 1971. It is also debunked everyday in modern day India, where Hindus and Muslims live, work and flourish together. Our lives and businesses are deeply intertwined and held together by our faith in our democratic institutions. 

1st para: In my opening post I acknowledged that the portrait has been there since 1938. I also mentioned that the situation should have been handled tactfully and students shouldn't have been beaten.

 

2nd para: May be among the elites these Hindu-Muslim issues don't matter much. But for a large majority of Indians, I believe it is an issue. There is just way too much historical baggage and hatred inbuilt over centuries, I agree with Jinnah that these 2 communities can't coexist. Communal violence between Hindus and Muslims is 1200 years old and crores of lives have been lost...we can't stay in denial. Last 70 years see how many Hindu-Muslim riots have happened in India. Thousands right? Wonder why there haven't been many Hindu-Sikh or Hindu-Christian riots? Muslims can't get houses in most Hindu areas, Hindus either can't get or refuse to stay in Muslim areas. So much ghettoization, villages are formed based on religion and even for employment religion matters. I think it is delusional to say that Hindus and Muslims flourish together. I don't think Muslims can flourish with people from any any other religion except in certain Central Asian countries where religion has been tightly regulated by higher authorities. I am sorry if my post is harsh but even 2 sects of Muslims refuse to coexist in countries with 99% Muslim population, what chance do other religions have.......reality is staring at us. Muslims can thrive in Hindu areas but is the converse possible? Kashmir valley has driven away all Pandits and being from Bengal I see the ground situation in Murshidabad, Malda etc. North Kerala is Muslim majority region and guess what they always vote for a religious party IUML. Malayalis in other areas alternate between CPM and Congress...in fact that has always been the case in their electoral history. Only exception is North Kerala where other parties never stand a chance. Do you think there is a single Hindu majority constituency in India where right from independence only a Hindu based party has won? Do you think AIMIM will ever lose in Old Hyderabad? That is because majority Muslims only think in terms of religion unlike every other religion in India. This so called faith in democratic institutions is only because Muslims believe it as an OK alternative to a benevolent Hindu despot ruling over all and sundry...in a democracy there are checks/balances and Hindus are a fragmented lot. Very few people believe in Hindu-Muslim bhaichara eg Mallus. They may boast about Kerala's secular atmosphere and all that stuff but can they explain why Muslim majority Malabar region votes in a certain rigid manner? Can they explain why Moplah rebellion turned into a full fledged anti Hindu pogrom in spite of no provocation by the other party?

 

Finally I don't see how Jinnah's theory is disproved by 1971? There were many aspects like political, logistical, geographical, cultural and human rights violations (mainly against Bengali Hindus) that led to the war and when India entered, it was impossible for Pak to hold on to land separated by 2000 km. Jinnah's 2 nation theory stands vindicated because even today majority Bangladeshis prefer fellow Muslim Pakistan over the country that took in 10 million refugees and fought their war. Hindu population which was 14% in 1971 is less than 8% today and fast dwindling. Statisticians have already concluded that in 30 years time there will no longer be any Hindus left in Bangladesh (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/No-Hindus-will-be-left-in-Bangladesh-after-30-years-professor/article16675228.ece). India with 8-13% Muslim pop over the years has had Muslim Presidents, CMs, CJIs, cine superstars, cricket captains, business tycoons, top bureaucrats, Air Force/Navy chiefs, nuclear project heads...........can a Bangladesh or any other Muslim majority country for that matter offer minorities so many opportunities to attain excellence/fame/money/power? I know of Christian majority countries doing better than even us on this front (minorities) but not a single Muslim majority country. Wonder why? As I said I agree with Jinnah but will take it a step further by saying that Muslims can't coexist with folk from any other religion, not just Hindus. Even in a comparatively tolerant Islamic country like Indonesia, this trend is visible, check out what happened to that Christian mayor who had to step down in spite of doing a splendid job just because of his religion. World is slowly awakening to this reality and that also is one of the main reasons behind emergence of far-RW forces in Europe and America.  

 

I understand completely that my post is very uncouth but I am just blurting out my honest opinion, no filters whatsoever. I like you because you are a very rare breed among Muslims, probably an outlier Muslim...may be your environment and education have molded you into such a person. I respect you and know for sure that you are a wonderful person with an ideal way of thinking, but I have a different outlook. I don't mind being called anti Muslim or bigot or those fancy terms in current use...I am not budging from my view points. 

Edited by Gollum

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Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

Edited by Gollum

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34 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

For how long India will Avoid the inevitable conflict.The stupidity of Nehru and other congress leaders will one day bring the results

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42 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

This needs to spread for the casteist chewtiyapa to dissolve and sleeping masses to wake up. ROPers are a stupid lot. They need to learn from ROLers and play the long game. Bharat wide Azaadi movement will result in a counter reaction so severe that what happened in Iberia more than a 1000 yrs ago will seem like a slap on the wrist to the momeen. Just remember who controls the state machinery. 

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53 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

there will be an inevitable civil war in India.... get ready for it in the future. the election of modi and re-election in 2019 will just accelerate it. 

Edited by FischerTal

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6 hours ago, Singh bling said:

For how long India will Avoid the inevitable conflict.The stupidity of Nehru and other congress leaders will one day bring the results

Oh my! 

Imagine something of this sort happening in America. The Govt would have crushed and sent these peacefuls straight to G bay before they could even blurt out about human rights violations.

@surajmal What's the point of having a supposed Hindutva govt at the centre when you have these pigs openly indulging in treason? 

@Muloghonto What do you suggest?

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1 hour ago, Stradlater said:

Oh my! 

Imagine something of this sort happening in America. The Govt would have crushed and sent these peacefuls straight to G bay before they could even blurt out about human rights violations.

@surajmal What's the point of having a supposed Hindutva govt at the centre when you have these pigs openly indulging in treason? 

@Muloghonto What do you suggest?

Campus protests are going on in US ,wont be surprised if avaaz and other int socialist groups are behinds this as well.

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27 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Azadi protests?

yup,burning flags and all .In our region hindus and muslims are too entrenched in their hatred towards each other ,ideal for all the puppet masters (not claiming that all iz well if they didnt exist).

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11 hours ago, Gollum said:

Now students from JNU, Jamia and Allahabad University join their AMU brethren. Azaadi slogans back, Bharat se lenge azaadi, ladke lenge azaadi................ Cheerleading over this despicable nonsense by libtards and other usual suspects, Pakistanis on social media rejoicing and adding fuel to fire. 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-3000-students-from-jnu-jamia-and-allahabad-university-join-aligarh-muslim-university-stir-2611724

Few points. They may be contrary to common perception here, but when one has to do JUSTICE then every possible point should be considered.

 

* Quality of video is not very clear, but for sure it was not "Bharat say lenge Azadi". 

* Flag of India is present there in the video.

* Kanhiya made it clear in this video that it is not Azadi from India, but "Azadi in India" i.e. (Bharat mein bhi ... Azadi)

 

 

* It may be that this video is tempered.

* If not, and really it is said "Bharat say lenge Azadi" then it comes under rebellion from Indian state and for sure it comes in the Media and the court. 

 

 

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Few points. They may be contrary to common perception here, but when one has to do JUSTICE then every possible point should be considered.
 
* Quality of video is not very clear, but for sure it was not "Bharat say lenge Azadi". 
* Flag of India is present there in the video.
* Kanhiya made it clear in this video that it is not Azadi from India, but "Azadi in India" i.e. (Bharat mein bhi ... Azadi)
 
 
* It may be that this video is tempered.
* If not, and really it is said "Bharat say lenge Azadi" then it comes under rebellion from Indian state and for sure it comes in the Media and the court. 
 
 

On a separate note, are their any socialist student movements in Pakistan? Any university (s) like JNU etc?

I’m curious to know...

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On 5/3/2018 at 5:58 PM, Gollum said:

 Apparently it has been hanging there since 1938 when he got his lifetime membership in some union of theirs. Violence started when local outfits wanted that portrait removed but AMU student's union denied the request. Jinnah neither studied in AMU, nor did he have any teaching post there..so surprising (or not for obvious reasons?) to see the sentimental attachment students have for him.

I am afraid that not 100% facts are told here in the media. 

Jinnah was among one of the founding members and the Donor of AMU and therefore he got permanent membership and from that time his photo is there along with other founding members and donors. 

 

It was a non issue up till now. But then right wing Hindu party asked for opening it's offices in AMU which was denied. After that the right wingers tried to enter the university by force (illegally?) and to take out the photo of Jinnah. 

 

For sure, this is very wrong way of accomplishing things. For sure this will anger the students of AMU (mostly Muslims). They see the right winger RSS extremists as most dangerous creatures on the planet earth, just like we see Jihadies as most dangerous creatures. 

 

For them today right wingers take the Jinnah's photo, but tomorrow they will totally dominate the AMU and change it into RSS dominated office. 

 

The reaction of students is fully understandable. If India really wants to get rid of photo of Jinnah, then it should be proper Channels who should do it, and not the RSS right wingers. 

 

 

Did Jinnah started the "Two Nation Theory"?

Islam is bad, Muslims are extremists. True. 

Nevertheless, all kind of religious extremism is bad, including the RSS type Hindu extremism which is almost as bad as Muslim extremism. 

 

According to Karan Thapar (Indian Journalist), the slogan of two nation theory was not raised by Jinnah first, but it was Veer Sawarkar (the founder of Hindutva) who presented this theory in 1937 while addressing the Hindu Mahasaba. 

 

Moreover, it was Hindu Mahasabha which made the common government with Muslim league in Puktoonkhawa, Bengal and Sindh at that time. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, asterix said:


On a separate note, are their any socialist student movements in Pakistan? Any university (s) like JNU etc?

I’m curious to know...

There is a communist party and their student wing, but unfortunately they have lost all their powers in front of the religious fanatics. 

 

The biggest socialist or secular party that we have is People's party. But nothing could be worse for socialism/secularism than this Party. 

 

Peoples Party is the most corrupt party and it brought the biggest shame for secularism and it turned people away from secularism and towards the religious fundamentalism. It is some what equal to Congress in India which is a secular party, but most corrupt one, and thus Indian people turning away from secularism and voting for BJP for economic reasons. 

 

And Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, the founder of Peoples Party, was the one who first declared that Pakistan is a "Islamic Republic" and all the laws will be made in light of Sharia. 

 

And Bhutto was the one who declared Ahmadies/Qadianies as Kafirs in Pakistan. 

 

So, when the most Secular Party is doing such religious stuff in Pakistan, then you could yourself better imagine where Pakistan is standing. 

 

There is no hope left for Pakistan as the religious fanatics have firmly taken the STATE in their hands. Minorities are killed and their rights usurped by the fanatics, but no one protests against it. And Peoples Party say not a single word against it. 

 

Edited by Alam_dar

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18 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Few points. They may be contrary to common perception here, but when one has to do JUSTICE then every possible point should be considered.

 

* Quality of video is not very clear, but for sure it was not "Bharat say lenge Azadi". 

* Flag of India is present there in the video.

* Kanhiya made it clear in this video that it is not Azadi from India, but "Azadi in India" i.e. (Bharat mein bhi ... Azadi)

 

 

* It may be that this video is tempered.

* If not, and really it is said "Bharat say lenge Azadi" then it comes under rebellion from Indian state and for sure it comes in the Media and the court. 

 

 

That Kanhaiya video is from 2016 JNU, the video I posted is from last week in AMU. Kanhaiya is a pathological liar, out of 10 or so videos from JNU last year, forensic labs found only 3 doctored. Things like 'Bharat ke tukde honge, Inshallah Inshallah', 'Kashmir ki azaadi tak jang rahegi, Bharat ki barbadi tak jang rahegi....',  'Afzal tere kaatil zinda hai' were said in the 2016 uprising. Kanhaiya, Umar Khalid, Shehla Rashid, Anirban Bhattacharya have tactfully sidestepped questions about these other slogans while only talking about Azaadi slogans. Regarding the AMU event, there must be forensic tests done ofc before authorities take action and Indian flag there means nothing, they might have kept it just to hide the motive behind their dharna. Remember this happened in Hindi heartland and not Kashmir valley, majority in this area are still Hindus. 

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20 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Islam is bad, Muslims are extremists. True. 

Nevertheless, all kind of religious extremism is bad, including the RSS type Hindu extremism which is almost as bad as Muslim extremism. 

 

According to Karan Thapar (Indian Journalist), the slogan of two nation theory was not raised by Jinnah first, but it was Veer Sawarkar (the founder of Hindutva) who presented this theory in 1937 while addressing the Hindu Mahasaba. 

 

Moreover, it was Hindu Mahasabha which made the common government with Muslim league in Puktoonkhawa, Bengal and Sindh at that time.

The extremism of other Religions is direct or indirect result of islam in India.Veer Savarkar was Atheist who deeply studied How Hindu's fought lost Land and people against Muslims.That's why he propagated radicalisation of Hinduism .Most Hindu's in India have hidden fear of muslim population increase and gaining political power , this is why they vote for BJP.on the other hand what fear 98% Muslims of Pakistan has? Why they vote for right wing parties?

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On 5/3/2018 at 11:31 PM, Gollum said:

2nd para: May be among the elites these Hindu-Muslim issues don't matter much. But for a large majority of Indians, I believe it is an issue. There is just way too much historical baggage and hatred inbuilt over centuries, I agree with Jinnah that these 2 communities can't coexist. Communal violence between Hindus and Muslims is 1200 years old and crores of lives have been lost...we can't stay in denial. Last 70 years see how many Hindu-Muslim riots have happened in India. Thousands right? Wonder why there haven't been many Hindu-Sikh or Hindu-Christian riots? Muslims can't get houses in most Hindu areas, Hindus either can't get or refuse to stay in Muslim areas. So much ghettoization, villages are formed based on religion and even for employment religion matters. I think it is delusional to say that Hindus and Muslims flourish together. I don't think Muslims can flourish with people from any any other religion except in certain Central Asian countries where religion has been tightly regulated by higher authorities. I am sorry if my post is harsh but even 2 sects of Muslims refuse to coexist in countries with 99% Muslim population, what chance do other religions have.......reality is staring at us. Muslims can thrive in Hindu areas but is the converse possible? Kashmir valley has driven away all Pandits and being from Bengal I see the ground situation in Murshidabad, Malda etc. North Kerala is Muslim majority region and guess what they always vote for a religious party IUML. Malayalis in other areas alternate between CPM and Congress...in fact that has always been the case in their electoral history. Only exception is North Kerala where other parties never stand a chance. Do you think there is a single Hindu majority constituency in India where right from independence only a Hindu based party has won? Do you think AIMIM will ever lose in Old Hyderabad? That is because majority Muslims only think in terms of religion unlike every other religion in India. This so called faith in democratic institutions is only because Muslims believe it as an OK alternative to a benevolent Hindu despot ruling over all and sundry...in a democracy there are checks/balances and Hindus are a fragmented lot. Very few people believe in Hindu-Muslim bhaichara eg Mallus. They may boast about Kerala's secular atmosphere and all that stuff but can they explain why Muslim majority Malabar region votes in a certain rigid manner? Can they explain why Moplah rebellion turned into a full fledged anti Hindu pogrom in spite of no provocation by the other party?

For me, religions like Islam or Judaism or Christianity or Hinduism are dangerous while mostly there comes religion FIRST and humanity SECOND. 

 

But the thing which is even more dangerous than all these religions is "Extremism". 

 

Even if it is extremism in name of nationality (i.e. nationalism) or extremism in caste system, or extremism in name of language .... or even the secular extremism. 

 

=======

 

What to talk about Muslims living in peace with other religions, they are even unable to live in peace with each other. Just watch how Muslims are killing each other in Muslim majority countries in name of Sects. 

 

Nevertheless, the other side of story is this that:

 

* Indeed Muslims lived in peace with other in Indonesia, Malaysia for centuries. The problems started occurring only in this century when Muslim youth became extremists (mainly due to Wahabi influence). 

 

* One reality is this that there was no IUML present in India and Muslims were not voting for them. 

But then came the BJP factor, Ayudhia factor, and other issues raised by RSS. Then FIRSTLY BJP got the Hindu votes by using the hatred politics, and then IUML also used the same hatred communal tactics to get the Muslim votes. 

 

* I am afraid that not only Muslims, but Christians and Sikhs are also not absolutely comfortable with RSS/BJP communal policies and politics. And for surely educated Secular Hindus also afraid of RSS Ghunda gardi as Muslims/Christians. 

 

No one want to interact with Muslim Mullah extremist. Similarly, no one want to interact with RSS saffron brigade. It seems you are no afraid of RSS, but when I see their faces then I see only aggressive people, who has almost nothing to do with the humanity and human rights, but who only want to be dictators. I am as afraid of them as I am afraid of Muslim Mullahs. 

 

Unfortunate thing for India is this that in name of getting rid of Muslim Extremists, they are going in the control of RSS extremists. It is nothing more than out of pan into the fire.  

 

Future of India should be an ideal secular country like Gandhi dreamt. I wish there comes any Secular party which is not corrupt like Congress and which could enlighten the Indian Youth, including the Muslim youth who leave IUML and join this Secular party. 

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29 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

The extremism of other Religions is direct or indirect result of islam in India.Veer Savarkar was Atheist who deeply studied How Hindu's fought lost Land and people against Muslims.That's why he propagated radicalisation of Hinduism .Most Hindu's in India have hidden fear of muslim population increase and gaining political power , this is why they vote for BJP.

Yes, Islam and Muslims have to be feared as they are taught to forcefully impose their Sharia. They should be shown if they want to live peacefully, then they have to leave this aggressiveness and live under the Secular Laws. 

29 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

on the other hand what fear 98% Muslims of Pakistan has? Why they vote for right wing parties?

Actually huge majority of Pakistanies are not voting for right wing Islamic parties like Jamat-e- Islami or Hafiz Saeed. 

But for sure majority of Pakistanies today tends towards extremism and hatred against India is increasing and all good positive things are disappearing and negativity is increasing. 

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51 minutes ago, Gollum said:

That Kanhaiya video is from 2016 JNU, the video I posted is from last week in AMU. Kanhaiya is a pathological liar, out of 10 or so videos from JNU last year, forensic labs found only 3 doctored. Things like 'Bharat ke tukde honge, Inshallah Inshallah', 'Kashmir ki azaadi tak jang rahegi, Bharat ki barbadi tak jang rahegi....',  'Afzal tere kaatil zinda hai' were said in the 2016 uprising. Kanhaiya, Umar Khalid, Shehla Rashid, Anirban Bhattacharya have tactfully sidestepped questions about these other slogans while only talking about Azaadi slogans. Regarding the AMU event, there must be forensic tests done ofc before authorities take action and Indian flag there means nothing, they might have kept it just to hide the motive behind their dharna. Remember this happened in Hindi heartland and not Kashmir valley, majority in this area are still Hindus. 

It may be that such slogans may have been raised by the Kashmiri Students in the JNU. 

But Kanhiya and his left wing supporters are not responsible for it. 

Kanhiya answered this question directly and openly if these slogans were raised, then the authorities should take the action against them, while he (Kanhiya) himself has no power or authority over all the Kashmiri students. 

 

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@Alam_dar I agree 100% that there are proper channels to communicate displeasure and what the Hindutva groups did was uncivilized. I made that point quite clear in my opening post. I was also right that neither was Jinnah a student nor a teacher here. AMU was founded in 1875 by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, so Jinnah wasn't a founding member as you indicated. Sources say he was a donor for the University Court and that is why he was given life membership. I believe this fact completely because during that time AMU was the nerve centre for partition and all students/faculty of AMU rallied behind Jinnah.

 

What RW groups did was wrong. But that doesn't excuse the behavior of AMU students. You may not know all facts about AMU but hear this out. This college has seen many students join jihadi organizations like LeT, IM, AQ, Hizbul etc. Even last month a research scholar from here joined a Kashmiri terrorist group. Students here are notorious for having extremist tendencies. The college where I did my masters was attacked by terrorists more than 10 years ago and a distinguished Professor Emeritus of Mathematics was killed in that attack, most of the terrorists there were AMU students/ex students. So I know the mentality of these guys. There are many minority colleges in India but none have this sort of reputation. You said the AMU students may see RSS types as dangerous but believe me most Indians see AMU passouts not too differently.

 

Regarding 2 nation theory neither Jinnah nor Hindutva icons started it, it had its origin in the early 1930s courtesy Choudhry Rahmat Ali. Regarding Hindu Mahasabha I am very much on record calling it a twisted moronic bigoted organization. I have no affection for those guys who were just the mirror image of Muslim League. No wonder those 2 joined hands to form governments in Bengal and Sindh.

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@Alam_dar You are wrong about IUML. It has been there since independence and flourished even when there was no BJP. BJP (earlier Bharatiya Jan Sangh) was a non entity in Indian politics for the 1st 4-4.5 decades after independence. Only after emergency by Indira Gandhi did it gain strength. In 1984 general elections BJP won 2 seats out of 533 !!!! IUML was already ruling Kerala (South India) in 1978, at a time where BJP was nowhere near to rule any state in India (In fact BJP got power in states that too limited in cow belt region only in the 90s). So your assertion that Muslims started voting for IUML because of BJP/RSS/Ayodhya is entirely wrong. Kerala has no BJP presence, only Congress and Communists...politics there is left/far left. Same in other places like Old Hyderabad  where AIMIM (a party with Hindu blood on its hands, former Razakars) is invincible...again that region has minimal BJP presence. In fact Indian Muslims vote only along religious lines, since independence very rarely have Hindu candidates been elected in Muslim areas irrespective of party. In Malerkotla (Punjab) Muslims are majority and Sikhs are minority, but no Sikh has ever won an election there. Same in Malda/Murshidabad (Bengal). But converse isn't true, Muslim candidates regularly win in Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Buddhist/Jain majority constituencies, in my hometown in Bengal the constituency is 90% Hindu, but since early 90s only Muslims have been local MLAs.

 

Why I brought up that Kerala example is to illustrate Muslim behavior in elections. I think being a foreigner you don't know much about elections in a Southern state like Kerala. Malayalis never give a party 2 consecutive terms, it always alternates between Congress and Communists. The electorate is smart in the sense that by doing this they ensure accountability. BJP has no presence here, they never won a single seat in this state till 2016 when they finally broke their duck and got the 1st ever assembly seat since 1948. The only exception is IUML which always wins in a Muslim belt in North Kerala. Right from 1948 the same party has always won, no alternation like rest of the state. No non Muslim can ever win here, even communist Muslims can't do jack in this belt. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Actually huge majority of Pakistanies are not voting for right wing Islamic parties like Jamat-e- Islami or Hafiz Saeed. 

 

Are you saying pml(n) and imran are less right wing than bjp??comeon

Pakistan has very few non muslim minority and the constitution got done by zia .There isnt much left to do for an avg right winger there other than just maintain them.

Edited by MultiB48

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

@Alam_dar I agree 100% that there are proper channels to communicate displeasure and what the Hindutva groups did was uncivilized. I made that point quite clear in my opening post. I was also right that neither was Jinnah a student nor a teacher here. AMU was founded in 1875 by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, so Jinnah wasn't a founding member as you indicated. Sources say he was a donor for the University Court and that is why he was given life membership. I believe this fact completely because during that time AMU was the nerve centre for partition and all students/faculty of AMU rallied behind Jinnah.

 

What RW groups did was wrong. But that doesn't excuse the behavior of AMU students. You may not know all facts about AMU but hear this out. This college has seen many students join jihadi organizations like LeT, IM, AQ, Hizbul etc. Even last month a research scholar from here joined a Kashmiri terrorist group. Students here are notorious for having extremist tendencies. The college where I did my masters was attacked by terrorists more than 10 years ago and a distinguished Professor Emeritus of Mathematics was killed in that attack, most of the terrorists there were AMU students/ex students. So I know the mentality of these guys. There are many minority colleges in India but none have this sort of reputation. You said the AMU students may see RSS types as dangerous but believe me most Indians see AMU passouts not too differently.

 

Regarding 2 nation theory neither Jinnah nor Hindutva icons started it, it had its origin in the early 1930s courtesy Choudhry Rahmat Ali. Regarding Hindu Mahasabha I am very much on record calling it a twisted moronic bigoted organization. I have no affection for those guys who were just the mirror image of Muslim League. No wonder those 2 joined hands to form governments in Bengal and Sindh.

Agree totally. 
I could very well imagine the mentality of AMU students, which is hating all others and their dreams of Islam dominating others in India like in the Mughal Era. 

 

The aim is this that the Muslim youth in India should turn into Secularists. But the extremist Hindutva politics is driving them more and more towards AMU/Mullah mentality. It is not good for India. 

 

32 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@Alam_dar You are wrong about IUML. It has been there since independence and flourished even when there was no BJP. BJP (earlier Bharatiya Jan Sangh) was a non entity in Indian politics for the 1st 4-4.5 decades after independence. Only after emergency by Indira Gandhi did it gain strength. In 1984 general elections BJP won 2 seats out of 533 !!!! IUML was already ruling Kerala (South India) in 1978, at a time where BJP was nowhere near to rule any state in India (In fact BJP got power in states that too limited in cow belt region only in the 90s). So your assertion that Muslims started voting for IUML because of BJP/RSS/Ayodhya is entirely wrong. Kerala has no BJP presence, only Congress and Communists...politics there is left/far left. Same in other places like Old Hyderabad  where AIMIM (a party with Hindu blood on its hands, former Razakars) is invincible...again that region has minimal BJP presence. In fact Indian Muslims vote only along religious lines, since independence very rarely have Hindu candidates been elected in Muslim areas irrespective of party. In Malerkotla (Punjab) Muslims are majority and Sikhs are minority, but no Sikh has ever won an election there. Same in Malda/Murshidabad (Bengal). But converse isn't true, Muslim candidates regularly win in Hindu/Sikh/Christian/Buddhist/Jain majority constituencies, in my hometown in Bengal the constituency is 90% Hindu, but since early 90s only Muslims have been local MLAs.

 

Why I brought up that Kerala example is to illustrate Muslim behavior in elections. I think being a foreigner you don't know much about elections in a Southern state like Kerala. Malayalis never give a party 2 consecutive terms, it always alternates between Congress and Communists. The electorate is smart in the sense that by doing this they ensure accountability. BJP has no presence here, they never won a single seat in this state till 2016 when they finally broke their duck and got the 1st ever assembly seat since 1948. The only exception is IUML which always wins in a Muslim belt in North Kerala. Right from 1948 the same party has always won, no alternation like rest of the state. No non Muslim can ever win here, even communist Muslims can't do jack in this belt. 

I am thankful for educating me regarding IUML. 


Yes, Muslims were more biased right from the beginning. But still I have my doubts that IUML got more following (all over India now among the Muslims) after the rise of BJP. Now IUML is selling their hatred agenda better than before. 

 

25 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Are you saying pml(n) and imran are less right wing than bjp??comeon

Pakistan has very few non muslim minority and the constitution got done by zia .There isnt much left to do for an avg right winger there other than just maintain them.

You are right about pml(n) and Imran Khan that they are also counted among the right wing. 

 

Nevertheless, BJP is more right oriented than them. Perhaps it is due to the reason that BJP has to counter the Muslims in India, while pml(n) and Imran don't have this problem in Pakistan. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Yes, Muslims were more biased right from the beginning. But still I have my doubts that IUML got more following (all over India now among the Muslims) after the rise of BJP. Now IUML is selling their hatred agenda better than before.

 

IUML is a Kerala based party and its leaders and cadre are unfamiliar with Urdu and North Indian culture. I don't see it ever getting followers in North India but may be more youth will get attracted to it in South Indian states. In 2016 Tamil Nadu (neighboring state of Kerala) assembly elections IUML won a seat beating Dravidian parties and BJP has never won a single assembly seat in all these years in Tamil Nadu. Tamils are extremely anti Hindutva/Hindi forces so I don't see BJP ever doing anything there, even in a recent by-election in Chennai NOTA (None Of The Above) polled more votes than BJP which finished dead last. IUML and SDPI (even more right wing, sent max ISIS fighters from India) are expanding aggressively in southern states in spite of no polarization along religious lines by Hindu community. Many of the Malayalis work in Gulf states and have brought back their radical Wahhabi ideology to India.

 

Though there is a party getting traction all across India, that is Owaisi's AIMIM. Extreme right wing party earlier limited to Old Hyderabad, but now has an all India presence, not just former Nizam controlled districts. In Maharashtra AIMIM won 2 assembly seats to add to the 7 it won in Telangana, in civic polls did even better than Congress in some pockets. In UP, Bihar, Bengal, Assam it hasn't won seats but polled decent figures. IUML, AIUDF, SDPI though strong in certain regions will never be pan India....Owaisi with his Urdu and acceptance among North/West Indian Muslims can become a pan India Muslim leader in a few years.

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4 hours ago, Singh bling said:

The extremism of other Religions is direct or indirect result of islam in India.Veer Savarkar was Atheist who deeply studied How Hindu's fought lost Land and people against Muslims.That's why he propagated radicalisation of Hinduism .Most Hindu's in India have hidden fear of muslim population increase and gaining political power , this is why they vote for BJP.on the other hand what fear 98% Muslims of Pakistan has? Why they vote for right wing parties?

In an ideal situation, all the forces (Hindu, Christian, Secularists) should have been united against the Muslim extremism, and after that Muslim extremism would have got no chance to escape. 

 

But in the present situation, forces are divided and fighting against each other rather than unanimously fighting against the Muslim extremism. 

 

It seems Secularists, Christians, Sikhs and even the Dalits are more afraid of Hindutva extremism as compared to the Muslim extremism. 

 

Am I wrong?
 

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madras.jpg

 

The biggest crime of history books we are force fed in India that partition was a regional event of Punjab, Sindh, and Bengal. The Pakistan movement was a pan-India movement, although leadership was from the East(it's no coincidence that the Northern East and East are problem areas currently ie UP, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam).  I don't see any Gujarati, Marathi, Tamizh, Telugu speaking Pakistanis, despite the clear voting pattern(I wonder where they went)?  

 

What's funny is that many of the people who stayed/voted against Pakistan, did so for religious reasons not nationalism/patriotism. People saying Deobandis stayed in India due to patriotism need to read about the token Congressi Mussalman "Freedom Fighter", and coincidentally the first Human Resources Minister of India.  

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/maulana-abdul-kalam-azad-partition-pakistan-deoband-indian-muslims/story/1/5223.html

 

 

This myth is worse than numerous other myths: "1000 years of slavery", "Gandhiji got us independence/is father of the Nation", "Tolerant Sufis/Mughals", "Secular Akbar", "Tipu the freedom fighter","British took control of India from the Mughals" etc.

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12 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

madras.jpg

 

The biggest crime of history books we are force fed in India that partition was a regional event of Punjab, Sindh, and Bengal. The Pakistan movement was a pan-India movement, although leadership was from the East(it's no coincidence that the Northern East and East are problem areas currently ie UP, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam).  I don't see any Gujarati, Marathi, Tamizh, Telugu speaking Pakistanis, despite the clear voting pattern(I wonder where they went)?  

 

What's funny is that many of the people who stayed/voted against Pakistan, did so for religious reasons not nationalism/patriotism. People saying Deobandis stayed in India due to patriotism need to read about the token Congressi Mussalman "Freedom Fighter", and coincidentally the first Human Resources Minister of India.  

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/maulana-abdul-kalam-azad-partition-pakistan-deoband-indian-muslims/story/1/5223.html

 

 

This myth is worse than numerous other myths: "1000 years of slavery", "Gandhiji got us independence/is father of the Nation", "Tolerant Sufis/Mughals", "Secular Akbar", "Tipu the freedom fighter","British took control of India from the Mughals" etc.

On the subject ot Sufis, Muslims came to Kashmir as migrants of peace, Sufis and Sufism has roots in Kashmir. They were allowed to settle down by Hindu kings who are like modern day peaceniks.  These Muslims lived for centuries peacefully with Hindus. And when the radical Muslim invaders conquered the land and they will able to win the wars mainly with the help of "peaceful" Sufis who had settled there and had turned their back on their neighbors. So, the Sufism is all nothing but a peaceful front to evangelize the religion in the region as they come with a message of humanism and peace. And then when it is time to take over, it is all for the greater good of the common religion.

]

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Lol @ Indian Muslims rejecting the idea of Partition / Pakistan just because they stayed back in India inspite of voting in favour of division of the country. 

 

I see it as nothing more than Indian Muslims helping their Pakistani Bros in establishing their own Islamic Country and then staying back to reap the benefits of Secular India. 

 

Islam and Muslims won as they suceeded in establishing their own countries consisting of regions  where they were in majority and continue to enjoy equal rights in India, while Hindus and other Non Muslims in the Muslim Lands have been killed,  raped and systematically converted to Islam. 

Edited by rageaddict

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56 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

In an ideal situation, all the forces (Hindu, Christian, Secularists) should have been united against the Muslim extremism, and after that Muslim extremism would have got no chance to escape. 

 

But in the present situation, forces are divided and fighting against each other rather than unanimously fighting against the Muslim extremism. 

 

It seems Secularists, Christians, Sikhs and even the Dalits are more afraid of Hindutva extremism as compared to the Muslim extremism. 

  

Am I wrong?
 

Gets down to demography ,A right wing muslim govt cant come to power at the center .

 

 

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Just now, rageaddict said:

When in majority , Muslims discard Secularism for Sharia and when in minority,  they become the biggest lovers of democracy,  secularism and Liberalism.  

 

Th

 

13 minutes ago, rageaddict said:

Lol @ Indian Muslims rejecting the idea of Partition / Pakistan just because they stayed back in India inspite of voting in favour of division of the country. 

 

I see it as nothing more than Indian Muslims helping their Pakistani Bros in establishing their own Islamic Country and then staying back to reap the benefits of Secular India. 

 

Islam and Muslims won as they suceeded in establishing their own countries consisting of regions  where they were in majority and continue to enjoy equal rights in India, while Hindus and other Non Muslims in the Muslim Lands have been killed,  raped and systematically converted to Islam. 

This is precisely what is preached to them - Al Taqiyya

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-al-Taqiyya-in-Islam

 

Quote

A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

 

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On a much more macro point, I can clearly see that with Congress out of reckoning, during this period India will be digging up many of these corpses and figuring out what to do with them. Fact is, 60 years of one party ruling does much harm to nation's fabric. It doesn't get test enough. The ideas are not pushed enough. Whether it is Indian history, mythology, Hinduism, Vedas, invasions etc, we will see revival of the ghosts we have not laid to rest. It is difficult process that perhaps this nation will have to go through.

 

We are seeing this happening state after state. This turbulence will continue and to some extent @ Mariyam point , the state and central govt will not try to hold back the emotions. It is as though flood gates have opened and suffocated voices are becoming vigilant and screaming out. It will take another 5 years before we will again start looking for alternatives. BJP is also a student of Congress politics. Congess ruled this country by consolidating minorities. BJP is trying its own social engineeringwith the majority and I can see how this working esp in North east and south.

 

On the hindu muslim issue @Gollum, I found this small video very relevant and addressed the core problem which demographic. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

You are right about pml(n) and Imran Khan that they are also counted among the right wing. 

 

Nevertheless, BJP is more right oriented than them. Perhaps it is due to the reason that BJP has to counter the Muslims in India, while pml(n) and Imran don't have this problem in Pakistan. 

 

I'm sorry, did you just say Imran Taliban Khan or whoever is more right wing than the Bharatiya Janta Party :fear1:

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9 hours ago, Clarke said:

I'm sorry, did you just say Imran Taliban Khan or whoever is more right wing than the Bharatiya Janta Party :fear1:

The guy defended Taliban multiple times in the past. That alone makes him more right winger than any of RSS members in last 70 years.

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8 hours ago, Stradlater said:

The guy defended Taliban multiple times in the past. That alone makes him more right winger than any of RSS members in last 70 years.

 

You are absolutely right about Imran Khan. He defended Taliban, he protested when Army wanted to start operation against Taliban, he went for that stupid Swat deal ..... ,  and still Imran Khan is licking the boots of Taliban by giving money to the Madrassas of Sami-ul-Haq.

 

But please see the controversy here that Taliban have declared Imran Khan to be "Kafir Khan".

 

Religious parties and religious people almost hate Imran Khan and still see him as a playboy, and a ZANI (i.e. fornicator) who was once married to a Jewish woman, and who has a illegitimate daughter. 

 

So, what is the difference between Imran Khan and BJP?

 

The difference is this that in case of Imran Khan it is a "one sided" affair. Imran appeases the Taliban, while Taliban hate Imran Khan. Actually Imran Khan also have no love for Taliban, but this appeasement is some kind of "Bribe" so that Taliban let him rule the Khaiber Pukhtoonkhawa area. 

 

Imran Khan himself is a "Barailvi" type person, who is married to a "Peerni" now. While for Deobandi/Wahabi Taliban, this Peery Mureedi of Barailvies is a Kufr and Shirk. 

 

But in case of BJP, then RSS and BJP are natural allies and friends. Their mode of operation may be different, but their basic agenda is very much similar. 

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21 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

You are absolutely right about Imran Khan. He defended Taliban, he protested when Army wanted to start operation against Taliban, he went for that stupid Swat deal ..... ,  and still Imran Khan is licking the boots of Taliban by giving money to the Madrassas of Sami-ul-Haq.

 

But please see the controversy here that Taliban have declared Imran Khan to be "Kafir Khan".

 

Religious parties and religious people almost hate Imran Khan and still see him as a playboy, and a ZANI (i.e. fornicator) who was once married to a Jewish woman, and who has a illegitimate daughter. 

 

So, what is the difference between Imran Khan and BJP?

 

The difference is this that in case of Imran Khan it is a "one sided" affair. Imran appeases the Taliban, while Taliban hate Imran Khan. Actually Imran Khan also have no love for Taliban, but this appeasement is some kind of "Bribe" so that Taliban let him rule the Khaiber Pukhtoonkhawa area. 

 

Imran Khan himself is a "Barailvi" type person, who is married to a "Peerni" now. While for Deobandi/Wahabi Taliban, this Peery Mureedi of Barailvies is a Kufr and Shirk. 

 

But in case of BJP, then RSS and BJP are natural allies and friends. Their mode of operation may be different, but their basic agenda is very much similar. 

The problem is though RSS no matter how much 'extremist' it is as an organization, should never be compared with an entity such as Taliban who regularly murder people like it's a sport. RSS is more of an ideology to rule at all costs using Hindutva as propaganda. That's all.

Taliban otoh is pure evil.

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1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

 

You are absolutely right about Imran Khan. He defended Taliban, he protested when Army wanted to start operation against Taliban, he went for that stupid Swat deal ..... ,  and still Imran Khan is licking the boots of Taliban by giving money to the Madrassas of Sami-ul-Haq.

 

But please see the controversy here that Taliban have declared Imran Khan to be "Kafir Khan".

 

Religious parties and religious people almost hate Imran Khan and still see him as a playboy, and a ZANI (i.e. fornicator) who was once married to a Jewish woman, and who has a illegitimate daughter. 

 

So, what is the difference between Imran Khan and BJP?

 

The difference is this that in case of Imran Khan it is a "one sided" affair. Imran appeases the Taliban, while Taliban hate Imran Khan. Actually Imran Khan also have no love for Taliban, but this appeasement is some kind of "Bribe" so that Taliban let him rule the Khaiber Pukhtoonkhawa area. 

 

Imran Khan himself is a "Barailvi" type person, who is married to a "Peerni" now. While for Deobandi/Wahabi Taliban, this Peery Mureedi of Barailvies is a Kufr and Shirk. 

 

But in case of BJP, then RSS and BJP are natural allies and friends. Their mode of operation may be different, but their basic agenda is very much similar. 

 

Imran has nothing left to offer for pakistan other than improving the economy and clearing out the corruption which i think is a bit too mundane and complex for him ,he loves the firebrand jazba, junoon stuff.He knows this deep down hence he is getting married and enjoying out the last days of his life.

 

Pakistan as a rightwing sunni muslim entity has been long established and is well settled.If you were the only shia state in the world like iran then maybe you would have something to fight for/against but you are yet another sunni muslim state .Just get rid off all the  jihadi tanzims and support the anti hindutva brigades in india and you will be on your way as long as your demography and constitution doesn't change drastically.


The heart for rightwing muslim activism and politics in the subcon now lies in india, this is where you can mobilize people against hindu facism .ppl like owaisi can offer a lot more to ind muslims than imran can to pak.  


And i haven't quite researched it but i am sure bjp has a lot more minorities and atheists in it's ranks than the most progressive of pak parties.

 

 

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