US opens Jerusalem embassy as 41 Palestinians killed in the protest

[Stradlater]

More than 1700 injured too.

Gee them Jews are ruthless, aren't they?

[Gollum]

Now there will be rallies and violence all over India by Muslim groups.

[sandeep]

Any Indian who would educate himself about the history of the Israel-Palestine dispute would find it difficult to take Israel's side on the issue.  At least if he/she was being honest and objective that is.

[Stradlater]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Any Indian who would educate himself about the history of the Israel-Palestine dispute would find it difficult to take Israel's side on the issue.  At least if he/she was being honest and objective that is.

Israel is clearly at fault here, no question about that.

But the world isn't black and white and there are so many things to consider.

They are good allies, the Israelis. What they do in their home is their personal business. Not something we should stress ourselves too much about.

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Any Indian who would educate himself about the history of the Israel-Palestine dispute would find it difficult to take Israel's side on the issue.  At least if he/she was being honest and objective that is.

I don't care about the history of the dispute. One side saved our sorry behinds in Kargil, the other side endorsed Hafiz Saeed in a mega rally in Pak calling for death and destruction of India. I may be objectively wrong in supporting Israel but Palestinians can eff off.

[sandeep]

13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I don't care about the history of the dispute. One side saved our sorry behinds in Kargil, the other side endorsed Hafiz Saeed in a mega rally in Pak calling for death and destruction of India. I may be objectively wrong in supporting Israel but Palestinians can eff off.

Do 2 wrongs ever make a right?  Realpolitik is a different issue.  What is the difference in your logic, compared to the lahori logic used by greenbros to support violence against Indian army in Kashmir?  

[Garuda]

The palestinian ambassador may have made a faux pas with their Indian counterpart. They have recalled the envoy and termed it a mistake. I'm willing to believe this. Syria and Palestine are not like Pakistan and Kashmir. Nuances in the politics of that region must be understood. Pakistan has good relations with Saudi and Turkey and in a round about way Israel. I dont like Modis bhai bhai with the Isrraelis. They are known troublemakers. India should stay out of this situation

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Any Indian who would educate himself about the history of the Israel-Palestine dispute would find it difficult to take Israel's side on the issue.  At least if he/she was being honest and objective that is.

Indeed. Israel is in the wrong here. So are the Palestinians. 

The Israel-Palestine paradigm should be a lesson to every war-hawk: As Brennus famously said, 'Vae, Victus!' (Woo to the defeated). 
Do not start a war that is unwinnable and if the enemy doesn't just win but crushes you, this is what will follow. 

 

[velu]

trump is really complicating things here

but wont be surprised if he recives nobel price for peace by solving the korean issue

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Do 2 wrongs ever make a right?  Realpolitik is a different issue.  What is the difference in your logic, compared to the lahori logic used by greenbros to support violence against Indian army in Kashmir?  

If Israel is wrong with regards to land encroachment even India is partially wrong in the Kashmir valley, both products of British legacy. Both Israel and India are secular democracies, both Palestine and Kashmir have a religious zeal in their struggle backed by state/non state actors from nearby regions. If both sets of locals can give up arms and start a non violent struggle may be there will be something to talk about.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Gollum

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

If Israel is wrong with regards to land encroachment even India is partially wrong in the Kashmir valley, both products of British legacy. Both Israel and India are secular democracies, both Palestine and Kashmir have a religious zeal in their struggle backed by state/non state actors from nearby regions. If both sets of locals can give up arms and start a non violent struggle may be there will be something to talk about.

Israel is not a secular democracy.   It is an occupying power.  There is a world of difference between India's status in Kashmir vs Israel and Palestine/West Bank.   

 

And for the record, I am not one to whitewash India's handling of the Kashmir problems either.

[Muloghonto]

39 minutes ago, Gollum said:

If Israel is wrong with regards to land encroachment even India is partially wrong in the Kashmir valley, both products of British legacy. Both Israel and India are secular democracies, both Palestine and Kashmir have a religious zeal in their struggle backed by state/non state actors from nearby regions. If both sets of locals can give up arms and start a non violent struggle may be there will be something to talk about.

false.

India has legal sovereign right claim to J&K. Even the UN agrees that for any movement in Kashmir's fate, India's legal sovereign rights must return to de-facto Indian control first.

Israel on the other hand, has zero legal claim in Palestine, neither did it officially annex it via war. 

It just showed up and started to build stuff on land that they don't claim to own, over protests of those who do claim to own it. That is why the occupation zones in Palestine are not sovereign Israeli lands by Israel's own jurisdiction. 

 

[Gollum]

44 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Israel is not a secular democracy.   It is an occupying power.  There is a world of difference between India's status in Kashmir vs Israel and Palestine/West Bank.   

 

And for the record, I am not one to whitewash India's handling of the Kashmir problems either.

Israel is a democracy and it is secular even though it isn't mentioned explicitly in their constitution. Indian Constitution in its original form too did not have the word secular until the 42nd amendment (1976) inserted it in the Preamble. However both countries have secular laws, in case of Israel it isn't a theocracy and is both Jewish and secular. Bangladesh too is secular with state religion Islam, so you may draw a parallel. Besides Israel has better human rights record than all its neighbors be it LGBT rights, freedom of religion, no blasphemy laws and no death for apostasy. Israel is an occupying power that part I agree and I sympathize with Palestine but I will support their cause only if they give up arms and launch a peaceful struggle. 

24 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

false.

India has legal sovereign right claim to J&K. Even the UN agrees that for any movement in Kashmir's fate, India's legal sovereign rights must return to de-facto Indian control first.

Israel on the other hand, has zero legal claim in Palestine, neither did it officially annex it via war. 

It just showed up and started to build stuff on land that they don't claim to own, over protests of those who do claim to own it. That is why the occupation zones in Palestine are not sovereign Israeli lands by Israel's own jurisdiction. 

 

I haven't checked the UN resolution but will accept your legal claim statement. However both issues came into existence thanks to Britain and both involve Muslims. From the moral angle both lands are being occupied by what locals call external powers. There is widespread human rights violation in both areas, both have terrorism problems...so I see more similarities than divergences in the 2 cases. 

[sarcastic]

WHO OWNS JERUSALEM

[chewy]

Trump is not a likeable person,but hell does he go through a lot of things he promised in his campaign...right or wrong

I believe this law introduced by Bill Clinton, but subsequent Presidents continued to waiver it and delay the move...Trump comes in and signs it off  

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, BeardedAladdin said:

What a load of garbage. Jerusalem was the spiritual home of the jewish faith for thousands of years. You can't "occupy" something that already belongs to you.

 

The same argument applies to ayodhya. It's not muslim land, it never has been.

 

Of course, naamard secularists will never agree to this, which is why india remains a spineless country that fails to look after its own citizens.

 

Thankfully people like you gave up your citizenship.

Your ignorance is overflowing along with your lack of class.  Spiritual home doesn't translate to legal land rights.  What about the thousands of local residents who were suddenly told that their homes are not theirs anymore, their land is a country that belongs to foreigners, just because they were persecuted by another group of foreigners?   

 

Takshashila was the seat of Hindu Knowledge for more than a millennium.  You think India should go to war with Pakistan to get it back?  

 

Ignorant Internet idiots talking about mardaangi and such nonsense are the mirror image of those bigoted Pakistanis who used to believe that 1 Pakistani soldier is worth 10 Indian soldiers.   

 

 

[Stradlater]

6 hours ago, Gollum said:

Israel is a democracy and it is secular even though it isn't mentioned explicitly in their constitution. Indian Constitution in its original form too did not have the word secular until the 42nd amendment (1976) inserted it in the Preamble. However both countries have secular laws, in case of Israel it isn't a theocracy and is both Jewish and secular. Bangladesh too is secular with state religion Islam, so you may draw a parallel. Besides Israel has better human rights record than all its neighbors be it LGBT rights, freedom of religion, no blasphemy laws and no death for apostasy. Israel is an occupying power that part I agree and I sympathize with Palestine but I will support their cause only if they give up arms and launch a peaceful struggle. 

I haven't checked the UN resolution but will accept your legal claim statement. However both issues came into existence thanks to Britain and both involve Muslims. From the moral angle both lands are being occupied by what locals call external powers. There is widespread human rights violation in both areas, both have terrorism problems...so I see more similarities than divergences in the 2 cases. 

Two things here :

1. Even though the original constitution didn't have the word secular in it, some articles such as 14,15,16,25,26,27,28,29,30 and 44 made sure that the secularism was to be the theme of the Constitution as desired by the makers.

 

2. India didn't intervene in the Kashmir until Maharaja Hari Singh signed the instrument of accession. Pakistanis were already inside J&K and were only few hours away from Srinagar and yet India waited until all the legal formalities were completed. Kashmir legally belongs to India. It's Pakistan who holds it illegally.

[Stradlater]

2 hours ago, BeardedAladdin said:

LOL

 

how the hell is israel at fault?

 

They are 9 million surrounded by 250 million muslims. They can't afford to be "politically correct".

 

If they were naamard bharat-vaasis like yourself, their country wouldn't even exist. India can't even settle kashmir because they're too spineless. At least israel looks after its citizens.

 

The fact is, muslims want to erase israel, they don't even recognise israel's existence. If they ever had a chance, they would do it. That's been the case for thousands of years.

 

And no, israel is NOT secular. They are a democracy (to maintain ties with the west) but the country itself was established on an idea called ZIONISM, look it up. They claim the land of israel as per biblical prophecy.

Mods this guy has been on a name calling spree since God knows how many days.

He has repeatedly insulted Muslims and lower castes by calling them derogatory names. He wants all Farmers to be killed who according to him are an obstacle in India's success.

How is this guy still allowed to post is beyond me? @rkt.india @beetle

[Alam_dar]

I am little astonished to see the level of support for Palestine from the Indian members. Never thought it to be the case. While I have seen almost all Pakistani Atheists or Secularists supporting Israel 100% and totally against Palestinians (mainly while their religion is Islam). 

 

I am afraid my views about Israel are not so positive. 

 

First and very basic problem: Israel will not stop usurping Arab lands till the creation of "Greater Israel"

 

Israel was formed on the bases of their fundamental Jewish belief that "God promised this Land to Israel". Zionists were given the choice of "Uganda Offer", which would have solved their problem of own state peacefully. But the Zionists denied this offer and brought very lame excuse for denying it (i.e. there are so many wild animals in this area, and therefore they don't want to have their state there). 

 

Instead of accepting Uganda offer, Zionists went for the land of Palestine. They had to conspire, they had to fight, they had to smuggle ... The reason was not the safety of Jews, but that religious madness that God promised them this land as their Birth right. 

 

Therefore, it is impossible that Zionists are ever going to be contempt upon the piece of land that they have at moment. 

 

Sure, in the beginning they were weak and they were unable to show their real colours. But we will see their real faces as soon as they get stronger and stronger. 

 

Actually we have already been seeing their true colours when they are making claims upon whole Jerusalem by telling the world that it was the capital of Jewish State of David, and Palestinian people have no affiliation to it, and thus they have the right to usurp whole of the city. 

 

Same is about the illegal settlements. Majority of Israelis in Israel openly telling that whole land belongs to them and Palestinians have no right to this land and must be expelled to other Arab countries. It is only this that their government could not say this thing openly (although unofficially government is doing the same irrespective of it's being hardliner's government or the liberal's government). 

 

====

 

I am afraid that "Extremism" is not limited to only Islam and Muslims. 

 

I am very uncomfortable with Islam, but I am even more uncomfortable with the Extremism. All extremists are the same, irrespective of which religion, race, nationality they belong to.

 

 

[Sachinism]

On 5/14/2018 at 5:05 PM, Stradlater said:

Israel is clearly at fault here, no question about that.

But the world isn't black and white and there are so many things to consider.

They are good allies, the Israelis. What they do in their home is their personal business. Not something we should stress ourselves too much about.

LOL - Yeh, basically turn a blind eye to any atrocities because they may make you feel uncomfortable.