US opens Jerusalem embassy as 41 Palestinians killed in the protest

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, Sachinism said:

LOL - Yeh, basically turn a blind eye to any atrocities because they may make you feel uncomfortable.

 

Exactly. I'm glad you understood it.

See the world is full of hypocrites and I'm no saint either. So yeah as much as it pains me to see the innocent Palestinian blood shed by Israeli goons, I would still support India getting closer and expanding relations with Israel since they are a much better ally.

[Detonator]

On 5/14/2018 at 9:25 PM, sandeep said:

Any Indian who would educate himself about the history of the Israel-Palestine dispute would find it difficult to take Israel's side on the issue.  At least if he/she was being honest and objective that is.

Agreed but the ball is clearly on Palestine's court now. If Israel wants it they can obliterate Palestine.

[Sachinism]

6 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Exactly. I'm glad you understood it.

See the world is full of hypocrites and I'm no saint either. So yeah as much as it pains me to see the innocent Palestinian blood shed by Israeli goons, I would still support India getting closer and expanding relations with Israel since they are a much better ally.

Credit for being honest. 

[kira]

Some idiots supporting israel on this thread were crying about humanity on other thread asking how the pakistanis could enjoy mumbai attacks. BC ek side ho jao, saala humanity ka naatak bhi karna hai but then they turn a blind eye on humanity when the same humanity is being raped in another country just because it isn't their interests to support them. Aise ghonchu logo ko lappad lagne chahiye

[sandeep]

15 minutes ago, kira said:

Some idiots supporting israel on this thread were crying about humanity on other thread asking how the pakistanis could enjoy mumbai attacks. BC ek side ho jao, saala humanity ka naatak bhi karna hai but then they turn a blind eye on humanity when the same humanity is being raped in another country just because it isn't their interests to support them. Aise ghonchu logo ko lappad lagne chahiye

True.  Ignorant people don't realize that Israel is basically a "Pakistan" on steroids.  Imagine if the British allowed "Pakistan" to take over Uttar Pradesh and Punjab at independence, all the hindus were thrown out of those lands, and Pakistan managed to win the following war.  That's how Israel came into existence - like Pakistan - a country carved out in the name of religion, thanks to the interference of outside powers, and made hundreds of thousands of people homeless and stateless.  Google 'naqba' and "deir yassin' to understand how Israel came into being.  

 

Too many ignorant Indians are drawn to supporting Israel due to realpolitik, and the fact that Israel's opponents happen to be muslim.  And unfortunately, for a big chunk, that's enough - the right and wrong of the issue don't seem to matter.

[sandeep]

On 5/14/2018 at 4:42 PM, chewy said:

Trump is not a likeable person,but hell does he go through a lot of things he promised in his campaign...right or wrong

I believe this law introduced by Bill Clinton, but subsequent Presidents continued to waiver it and delay the move...Trump comes in and signs it off  

The law was not "introduced by" Bill Clinton.  A right-wing republican dominated House of Representatives - one that hated Clinton btw, passed the law over Clinton's objections.   In those days, a lot of such bills were passed in exchange for political support i.e. big donations of $$ - with the understanding that the actual executive branch of government would never be stupid enough to act on them.  Well, I guess Trump never saw a challenge of "How stupid can you be" and backed down from it.

Edited May 16, 2018 by sandeep

[Alam_dar]

42 minutes ago, Detonator said:

Agreed but the ball is clearly on Palestine's court now. If Israel wants it they can obliterate Palestine.

It is 100% that the Zionists in Israel already WANT to obliterate Palestine. There is no doubt about it.

 

It is only the International pressure which is not letting them to do so, and at their own they could not fight Europe/Muslims

 

And Ball was never in the Palestinian court, but was always in the Israeli court (at least after the Oslo pact). But Israel always demanding "More and More and More" and they Israel will keep on doing it till it is stronger and the rest of the world is unable to pressurize Israel to stop this practice. 

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

It is 100% that the Zionists in Israel already WANT to obliterate Palestine. There is no doubt about it.

 

It is only the International pressure which is not letting them to do so, and at their own they could not fight Europe/Muslims

 

And Ball was never in the Palestinian court, but was always in the Israeli court (at least after the Oslo pact). But Israel always demanding "More and More and More" and they Israel will keep on doing it till it is stronger and the rest of the world is unable to pressurize Israel to stop this practice. 

"Palestine" is already obliterated.  It doesn't exist.  Israel is doing all it can to perpetuate the homelessness and deprivation of the people, because its actually in their interest for Palestinians to resort to violence.  The day that Palestinians turn to proper non-violence, Israel's occupation, and persecution would stand exposed.  Unfortunately the Palestinians are not smart enough to recognize that, and its a bit understandable too.  Its not easy to be Gandhi when you are being tortured.  Most will choose to be Bhagat Singh or Bose instead. 

[Gollum]

@Alam_dar India has been on Palestine's side right from initial days. All our freedom fighters supported Palestine's cause, India was among the earliest states to recognize Palestine's statehood and PLO. India established ties with Israel only post 1992, so you can see which side the sympathies were all these years. But any relation needs to have give and take. Israel helped us in Kargil, Israel is vital for India in defence purchase, dry land agriculture, water conservation etc. Israel supports India in Kashmir conflict while Palestine hasn't made its stance clear. But I think if their envoy can share stage with Hafiz Saeed in a 'Death To India rally' I can wager a guess regarding where their sympathies lie even if they haven't made it official. Palestine has deep ties with our enemy nation Pakistan, that too needs to be taken into consideration. Radical Islamic terrorism is a real threat to humanity and Pakistan and Palestine are on the same side in hosting such groups, there are so many things to consider. Most Indians will sympathize with Palestine  but won't drown in sorrow every time Israel chooses to attack them. If Palestine launches a non violent struggle people will support. But stabbing innocent civilians, blowing up schools, decapitating Israeli children etc won't cut ice with most of the civilized people. Let them give up arms and draw inspiration from Indian freedom struggle, that will also be my advice to Kashmiris who want azaadi.

 

 

[Stradlater]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@Alam_dar India has been on Palestine's side right from initial days. All our freedom fighters supported Palestine's cause, India was among the earliest states to recognize Palestine's statehood and PLO. India established ties with Israel only post 1992, so you can see which side the sympathies were all these years. But any relation needs to have give and take. Israel helped us in Kargil, Israel is vital for India in defence purchase, dry land agriculture, water conservation etc. Israel supports India in Kashmir conflict while Palestine hasn't made its stance clear. But I think if their envoy can share stage with Hafiz Saeed in a 'Death To India rally' I can wager a guess regarding where their sympathies lie even if they haven't made it official. Palestine has deep ties with our enemy nation Pakistan, that too needs to be taken into consideration. Radical Islamic terrorism is a real threat to humanity and Pakistan and Palestine are on the same side in hosting such groups, there are so many things to consider. Most Indians will sympathize with Palestine  but won't drown in sorrow every time Israel chooses to attack them. If Palestine launches a non violent struggle people will support. But stabbing innocent civilians, blowing up schools, decapitating Israeli children etc won't cut ice with most of the civilized people. Let them give up arms and draw inspiration from Indian freedom struggle, that will also be my advice to Kashmiris who want azaadi.

 

 

There's a reason why Yasser Arafat was so admired and appreciated in India. He was a man of peace with a pragmatic approach who condemned both Jihadists and Zionists alike and wanted a peaceful solution to the entire crisis.

 Till he was alive, majority of Indians supported and sympathized with the Palestinian cause. But ever since the cause has been hijacked by Hamas and other radical Jihadists, a lot of Indians have drifted away from their side. Add to that Israel's unwavering support to India on major issues which helped in changing their perception here.

 

 

[Gollum]

4 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

There's a reason why Yasser Arafat was so admired and appreciated in India. He was a man of peace with a pragmatic approach who condemned both Jihadists and Zionists alike and wanted a peaceful solution to the entire crisis.

 Till he was alive, majority of Indians supported and sympathized with the Palestinian cause. But ever since the cause has been hijacked by Hamas and other radical Jihadists, a lot of Indians have drifted away from their side. Add to that Israel's unwavering support to India on major issues which helped in changing their perception here.

 

 

Yasser Arafat was admired in India even though he was initially a terrorist who was involved in the Black September conspiracy to strike 1972 Munich Olympic Games. Olympics is a symbol of unity and to watch a dozen Israeli athletes being butchered in cold blood under intense media coverage was the lowest of all lows. But since he gave up violence and became a man of peace we accepted him. The reason we have our doubts today is the nature of the struggle, afterall Kashmiri Pandit genocide is still afresh in our memories, no one deserves to suffer fates at the hands of jihadis like the KPs, never again.

[Garuda]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:34 AM, Gollum said:

Israel is a democracy and it is secular even though it isn't mentioned explicitly in their constitution. Indian Constitution in its original form too did not have the word secular until the 42nd amendment (1976) inserted it in the Preamble. However both countries have secular laws, in case of Israel it isn't a theocracy and is both Jewish and secular. Bangladesh too is secular with state religion Islam, so you may draw a parallel. Besides Israel has better human rights record than all its neighbors be it LGBT rights, freedom of religion, no blasphemy laws and no death for apostasy. Israel is an occupying power that part I agree and I sympathize with Palestine but I will support their cause only if they give up arms and launch a peaceful struggle. 

I haven't checked the UN resolution but will accept your legal claim statement. However both issues came into existence thanks to Britain and both involve Muslims. From the moral angle both lands are being occupied by what locals call external powers. There is widespread human rights violation in both areas, both have terrorism problems...so I see more similarities than divergences in the 2 cases. 

Israel is a democracy as long as the people are jews. There is no representation for muslims and christians or for that matter you. Our understanding of secular is different from those of the west. In India, secularism means the government is not based on religion. In the West, secularism is considered atheistic. Most Indians need to know that the western view on secularism is the true one. Judaism is a supremacist religion. In their religion, the jews are considered as literal gods and the rest of humans as cattle. So Judaism is atheism and their god is themselves. If that is what they are taught at school, you can imagine how racist they can be. The other abrahamic faiths derive this racist theology from the Jews and are created to be subservient to them. Christians were told to protect the jews in addition to christians. Muslims are told to protect Christians and Jews as the are the "people of the book". Same protection is not afforded to Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains. So they can do with them as they please. Thats why these desert religions spread hate, conquest, conversion(in the case of Muslims and Christians), bloodthirsty, etc

 

PS: There is no freedom of religion there and who cares about LGBT rights.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Garuda

[Gollum]

20 minutes ago, Garuda said:

Israel is a democracy as long as the people are jews. There is no representation for muslims and christians or for that matter you. Our understanding of secular is different from those of the west. In India, secularism means the government is not based on religion. In the West, secularism is considered atheistic. Most Indians need to know that the western view on secularism is the true one. Judaism is a supremacist religion. In their religion, the jews are considered as literal gods and the rest of humans as cattle. So Judaism is atheism and their god is themselves. If that is what they are taught at school, you can imagine how racist they can be. The other abrahamic faiths derive this racist theology from the Jews and are created to be subservient to them. Christians were told to protect the jews in addition to christians. Muslims are told to protect Christians and Jews as the are the "people of the book". Same protection is not afforded to Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains. So they can do with them as they please. Thats why these desert religions spread hate, conquest, conversion(in the case of Muslims and Christians), bloodthirsty, etc

 

PS: There is no freedom of religion there and who cares about LGBT rights.

Check this out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset. Also if you do a search you will find Christians in their legislature. There are also many Muslim Arab army soldiers of high rank in the Israeli army, so you are wrong about the representation part. 

 

In India secularism means appeasing all, in west secularism means separation of religion from state.  

 

Regarding Judaism being a supremacist religion I don't know because i haven't read the Torah. In fact I haven't studied any of the Abrahmic religions, so can't add much to the last part of your post. I know for a fact that most religious books in their original versions promoted racist and violent views, so had to be modified through the ages to be agreeable to the changing society/worlview. There are many versions of Holy Bible but I think Holy Quran is still in its original form. May be @Mariyam @Alam_dar can shed light on this because both are very well read besides being 'People of the Book'. 

 

Everyone should care about LGBT rights and compared to Arab states I think Israel has more freedom of religion. At least no death sentence for apostasy. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Gollum

[Mariyam]

@Gollum

 

I am hardly an expert on the Holy Quran. To answer your question in short, the Holy Quran is essentially into two broad parts.

The Meccan surahs: These were revealed before the Hijra of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his followers to Medina. These are, generally speaking a lot more humanist and laissez faire. The Muslims were a smaller community at this time.

The Medinan surahs: These are more belligerent as these were revealed after the Hijra to Medina. The Muslims were a larger/ stronger community at this time. The ayats specific to non believers and other people of the book are a part of the Medinan surahs.

 

It also so happens that, many a times the there would be statements/guidelines on the same subject in the two surahs that would contradict each other. In such a case, the earlier surahs (generally the Meccan) would be abrogated.

[Singh bling]

8 hours ago, sandeep said:

True.  Ignorant people don't realize that Israel is basically a "Pakistan" on steroids.  Imagine if the British allowed "Pakistan" to take over Uttar Pradesh and Punjab at independence, all the hindus were thrown out of those lands, and Pakistan managed to win the following war.  That's how Israel came into existence - like Pakistan - a country carved out in the name of religion, thanks to the interference of outside powers, and made hundreds of thousands of people homeless and stateless.  Google 'naqba' and "deir yassin' to understand how Israel came into being.  

 

Too many ignorant Indians are drawn to supporting Israel due to realpolitik, and the fact that Israel's opponents happen to be muslim.  And unfortunately, for a big chunk, that's enough - the right and wrong of the issue don't seem to matter.

Totally wrong comparison .Israel was given to badly persecuted Religion that had bare more than 10 million people left .They were facing persecution from every part of world including Arabs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

 

This is the way Arabs were treating jews.

 

On the other hand Pakistan was given to violent community that was ruling India and badly persecuted all Indian religions.

 

Moreover The Hindu leaders Gandhi and Nehru were pleading them to be with India and make it secular state where their rights religious places were fully protected.To form Pakistan they unleashed worst kind of violence.

 

Now show me where jews did that in Palestine before independence .Show me where Arab leaders assured them that Palestine will be a secular nation? 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Totally wrong comparison .Israel was given to badly persecuted Religion that had bare more than 10 million people left .They were facing persecution from every part of world including Arabs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

 

This is the way Arabs were treating jews.

 

On the other hand Pakistan was given to violent community that was ruling India and badly persecuted all Indian religions.

 

Moreover The Hindu leaders Gandhi and Nehru were pleading them to be with India and make it secular state where their rights religious places were fully protected.To form Pakistan they unleashed worst kind of violence.

 

Now show me where jews did that in Palestine before independence .Show me where Arab leaders assured them that Palestine will be a secular nation? 

Did you google Deir Yassin? Do you know why the state of Israel refuses to release information on what happened in that village even 70 years after the fact?  

 

Sure, there were riots between Arabs and Jews in Palestine - doesn't mean that the Palestinians should be thrown out of their homes and ancestral lands.  There should have been a partition at the very least.  Palestinians were dealt a bad hand.  And they have played it even badly since then.  Now Israel looks at India-Pakistan, and knows that if they allow a "2 state solution" they will have to deal with a hostile neighbor that has claims on its land in perpetuity, so they are doing all it can to prevent Palestine from being a viable state.  They intentionally are keeping the Palestinians in such a terrible state, that most would want to emigrate to other places.  That's the eventual plan - they keep building settlements and gnawing away at the West Bank and Gaza.  Illegally.  But the US protects them from UN sanctions.  There is no legal or moral justification for the actions of Israel. It wasn't the Palestinians who committed the Holocaust.  

[Gollum]

Right throughout history invaders who occupied other's land were the heroes, poems and ballads penned down in their honor and the more the massacres the lengthier the praise/adulation. Today it is the opposite and I don't blame it, we can't judge historical events via modern prism....we are more enlightened and liberated than our ancestors, everything is for the better now. But just funny thinking about all the great conquerors: Cyrus, Darius, Alexander, Caesars, Genghis, Timur, Suleiman, Elizabeth, Peter, Catherine, Napoleon....all these people are national heroes with cities/monuments/babies named after them, may even have books dedicated about their pooping habits. After all what they did in their times would quantify as 100x times the atrocities which even the worst oppressors of 2018 are causing. Benjamin Netanyahu would qualify as a saint in those times, a living embodiment of God himself. 

[Garuda]

13 hours ago, Gollum said:

Check this out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset. Also if you do a search you will find Christians in their legislature. There are also many Muslim Arab army soldiers of high rank in the Israeli army, so you are wrong about the representation part. 

 

In India secularism means appeasing all, in west secularism means separation of religion from state.  

 

Regarding Judaism being a supremacist religion I don't know because i haven't read the Torah. In fact I haven't studied any of the Abrahmic religions, so can't add much to the last part of your post. I know for a fact that most religious books in their original versions promoted racist and violent views, so had to be modified through the ages to be agreeable to the changing society/worlview. There are many versions of Holy Bible but I think Holy Quran is still in its original form. May be @Mariyam @Alam_dar can shed light on this because both are very well read besides being 'People of the Book'. 

 

Everyone should care about LGBT rights and compared to Arab states I think Israel has more freedom of religion. At least no death sentence for apostasy. 

Their inclusiveness is just for show. If Pakistan has some Christian/Hindu/Sikh in the army in high ranks, does that wipe away their cruel record against minorities. If you want to study jewish history, you should find out why they have been kicked out of several nations in Europe and the Middle East. Also Talmud is their chief book not the Torah. Even the Torah is highly violent. Basically the jews are the planners of world domination and christians and muslims are the pawns who are bred to be hitmen but also be dumb. When mohammed conquered the middle east he went after "idol worshippers" not jews. "Idol worshippers" were farmers (are you seeing any parallels in India) and the jews were brigands and thieves who were kicked out of every land just like recently. Farmers created cities and had their kingdoms in the fertile crescent and they kicked hebrew asses everytime for dacoitery. Why should I care about LGBT rights. Its just a facade for being indecent in public with their parades

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, Garuda said:

Their inclusiveness is just for show. If Pakistan has some Christian/Hindu/Sikh in the army in high ranks, does that wipe away their cruel record against minorities. If you want to study jewish history, you should find out why they have been kicked out of several nations in Europe and the Middle East. Also Talmud is their chief book not the Torah. Even the Torah is highly violent. Basically the jews are the planners of world domination and christians and muslims are the pawns who are bred to be hitmen but also be dumb. When mohammed conquered the middle east he went after "idol worshippers" not jews. "Idol worshippers" were farmers (are you seeing any parallels in India) and the jews were brigands and thieves who were kicked out of every land just like recently. Farmers created cities and had their kingdoms in the fertile crescent and they kicked hebrew asses everytime for dacoitery. Why should I care about LGBT rights. Its just a facade for being indecent in public with their parades

Another of the conservative nitwits with so much wrong/incorrect view of history. 

Jews are nothing to the world. Never have been, never will be. Simple reason: predominantly endogamous socieities do not control any noticable amount if they are too small. Basically the jews are gujjus of the west. their religion,is mostly a facade. Most jews are pretty secular and don't give two hoots about the Torah. They just show up to religious stuff, like many hindus who dont give a rats behind but follow along just to please others/keep peace of mind, etc. 

 

Mohammed specifically genocided the male of an entire jewish community in medina. As far as ethnic cleansing goes, this is the biggest one of Mo. 

Sure, the Ummayads and the Abbasids didn't annihilate the 'ahl-al-kitub' but reasons for that, are entirely political. Ofcourse Mohammed went after idol worshippers the hardest. Because entire arabia was idol worshippers with multi-god pantheon and he is preaching monotheism. 

Its common sense that anyone parroting monotheism - the basic premise of God =1 only, will go hardest after any religion that has any inkling of 'God >1' ideology. 

 

[Garuda]

58 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Another of the conservative nitwits with so much wrong/incorrect view of history. 

Jews are nothing to the world. Never have been, never will be. Simple reason: predominantly endogamous socieities do not control any noticable amount if they are too small. Basically the jews are gujjus of the west. their religion,is mostly a facade. Most jews are pretty secular and don't give two hoots about the Torah. They just show up to religious stuff, like many hindus who dont give a rats behind but follow along just to please others/keep peace of mind, etc. 

 

Mohammed specifically genocided the male of an entire jewish community in medina. As far as ethnic cleansing goes, this is the biggest one of Mo. 

Sure, the Ummayads and the Abbasids didn't annihilate the 'ahl-al-kitub' but reasons for that, are entirely political. Ofcourse Mohammed went after idol worshippers the hardest. Because entire arabia was idol worshippers with multi-god pantheon and he is preaching monotheism. 

Its common sense that anyone parroting monotheism - the basic premise of God =1 only, will go hardest after any religion that has any inkling of 'God >1' ideology. 

 

Prove it. I need scholarly articles for proof. Otherwise you are making stuff from Uranus . My claim is more likely to be close to the truth. Do you know you cant criticize the jews in many european countries. It demonstrates some amount of world power that nobody has.