BJP will 'definitely' not come to power in 2019: Chandrababu Naidu

[diga]

BJP may very well not come to power.. but 2019 will be one ugly battle

[Alam_dar]

10 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:

Sorry, its simple case of arithmetic..in a 2 party system dhimmi + abrahamic vote > core hindu vote of 32 pc

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I am sorry for my little knowledge. 

Abrahamic vote = Muslim+Christians. 

Dhimmi? Who are they? You mean Dallits? Or Sikhs/Buddhists/Tribals?

And where do the Secularists stand? They are not Abrahamic for sure. So, do they also come under the category of Dhimmi? 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Alam_dar

[nikred]

I am sorry for my little knowledge. 
Abrahamic vote = Muslim+Christians. 
Dhimmi? Who are they? You mean Dallits? Or Sikhs/Buddhists/Tribals?
And where do the Secularists stand? They are not Abrahamic for sure. So, do they also come under the category of Dhimmi? 
 
 
 

I consider myself a secularist and I will definitely vote for a secular party the day it is formed.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[Temujin Khaghan]

Chandrabobnoidoo won't come to power in ap come next elections..

 

It will be Powerstar Pawan Kalyan. :p 

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, nikred said:

I consider myself a secularist and I will definitely vote for a secular party the day it is formed.
 

According to my humble opinion, Secularism is not bound to party and voting, but the Secular Values are connected to Humanity without any consideration of race or religion or sect or caste or nationality or language. These Secular Values are UNIVERSAL. 

 

Dear friends, 

 

Even if you convince yourself that supporting BJP is correct while there exists no other secular party, still please don't forget that BJP with present right wing leanings is only a temporary solution for India. It may be that BJP is winning, but see how India is loosing due to extreme hatred and polarization in the Indian society. 

 

BJP went to 32% core Hindu religious vote. But it will be extremely difficult for BJP to go beyond this 32%.  Here you could see the real problem here. 

 

[asterix]

^ Fair enough... most of the public want progress without corruption. Keeping aside BJPs ideology, it has or atleast striving to deliver...

 

Secularism etc is not important any more. It could be important for Minorities as there are instances that Muslims are more concerned about religious matters than education, social and economic progress...

 

In India it’s kind of binary now... you either try to inclusive and in the process continue to get dragged down in various issues to please every community (in most cases minorities) or continue with the growth process....

 

You cannot have everything. You listen to your Padres & Mullahs and vote enmasse for corrupt parties just because they are “inclusive” and expect BJP to hope of winning from its voters without polarising...

 

When was the last time minorities come out and protest against their own divisive Mullah’s or Padres? I see lots of churning and protest for rights in Hindus... And hence they are a divided lot...hence BJP has to resort to polarisation...

 

When was the last time minorities protested against Congress for using them so long without working to uplift the communities? All it did was to create a bogey of RSS/BJP and claim votes of the minorities? Minorities are perpetually polarised against Hindus and BJP. Parties don’t even have to do much to polarise minorities...

 

If BJP starts winning in minority majority areas and starts getting votes from the minorities for the development work or non corrupt governance, why should it needs to polarise? Polarisation is the last resort as it has to be in power to bring changes or may be secure it’s future. If not in power it’ll be “babaji ka thullu”...

 

 

[Yoda-esque]

I am sorry for my little knowledge. 
Abrahamic vote = Muslim+Christians. 
Dhimmi? Who are they? You mean Dallits? Or Sikhs/Buddhists/Tribals?
And where do the Secularists stand? They are not Abrahamic for sure. So, do they also come under the category of Dhimmi? 
 
 
 

What is a secularist...please tell me

The day minorities stop voting for Khangress,sp,bsp and Tmc,please come back and tell me what that means.



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[coffee_rules]

6 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I am sorry for my little knowledge. 

Abrahamic vote = Muslim+Christians. 

Dhimmi? Who are they? You mean Dallits? Or Sikhs/Buddhists/Tribals?

And where do the Secularists stand? They are not Abrahamic for sure. So, do they also come under the category of Dhimmi? 

 

 

 

Dhimmis are hindus who are pseudo-seculars, secular who are anti- hindutva and will not align with BJP , RSS and prefer to watch NDTV. They also have a portrait of Nehru, Indira and Rajdeep Sardesai in their living room.

Edited May 28, 2018 by coffee_rules

[Yoda-esque]

I consider myself a secularist and I will definitely vote for a secular party the day it is formed.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

Keep waiting to vote then

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[someone]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

BJP went to 32% core Hindu religious vote. But it will be extremely difficult for BJP to go beyond this 32%.  Here you could see the real problem here.

That's incorrect. BJP's vote in 2014 was majority based on the development. The huge jump from 2009 to 2014 was due to vikaas where people saw Modi as the face of development with his "Gujarat" model.

 

BJP is the only party which asks votes of its track record and achievements. There is no other such party today. All the rest parties want votes as they keep spreading that the religion or caste is in danger. So 2019 elections, we will have one party who will showcase its achievements while the rest have no achievements, instead will ask votes on caste/religion lines. The real communal are the rest of parties.

[someone]

54 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Dhimmis are hindus who are pseudo-seculars, secular who are anti- hindutva and will not align with BJP , RSS and prefer to watch NDTV. They also have a portrait of Nehru, Indira and Rajdeep Sardesai in their living room.

Or dhimmis are ppl with Hindu names but have allegiance to other religion. These people often are in high influential posts, and have a deep hatred for Hinduism. The actual Hindu population imo is 60%.

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, asterix said:

^ Fair enough... most of the public want progress without corruption. Keeping aside BJPs ideology, it has or atleast striving to deliver...

 

Secularism etc is not important any more. It could be important for Minorities as there are instances that Muslims are more concerned about religious matters than education, social and economic progress...

 

In India it’s kind of binary now... you either try to inclusive and in the process continue to get dragged down in various issues to please every community (in most cases minorities) or continue with the growth process....

 

You cannot have everything. You listen to your Padres & Mullahs and vote enmasse for corrupt parties just because they are “inclusive” and expect BJP to hope of winning from its voters without polarising...

 

When was the last time minorities come out and protest against their own divisive Mullah’s or Padres? I see lots of churning and protest for rights in Hindus... And hence they are a divided lot...hence BJP has to resort to polarisation...

 

When was the last time minorities protested against Congress for using them so long without working to uplift the communities? All it did was to create a bogey of RSS/BJP and claim votes of the minorities? Minorities are perpetually polarised against Hindus and BJP. Parties don’t even have to do much to polarise minorities...

 

If BJP starts winning in minority majority areas and starts getting votes from the minorities for the development work or non corrupt governance, why should it needs to polarise? Polarisation is the last resort as it has to be in power to bring changes or may be secure it’s future. If not in power it’ll be “babaji ka thullu”...

 

This is your "angle" of viewing the issues. 

 

While the angle, with which minorities judge it, it is totally different. For them progress is secondary and meaningless when BJP try to make them the 2nd class citizens, which means ultimately progress only for the Hindutva supporters, while all other are only going to suffer in the near future. All the state organisations are now under BJP influence and public(/minorities) feeling difficult to trust in them. Judiciary, and perhaps Indian Army are the last 2 State organisations, which are free of influence of BJP. 

 

If it was only the case of Muslims, one could have understood it. But here every minority is fearing BJP right wing leanings.

 

How is mob lynching and beef bans are helping BJP to attract the minorities and gain their trust? 

 

* Winning the elections (by hook and crook) is not going to solve the problems. Not even as a temporary solution. 

* BJP should have "distanced" itself long long ago from the communal policies (Just after that when it had sensed that it is the only party which is free of corruption and could bring real changes in India). 

* BJP might have lost the elections without communal face, but would have certainly won in the longer race, when the minorities and the Secularists have also joined it's ranks (while it is the only corruption free party as they claim). 

* 50 years or 100 years mean nothing in the life of Nations. 

* The very foundation of BJP is at moment communal, and only slogans of progress is not going to change it. BJP has to be severely criticized by it's own sensible supporters from within it's own ranks, who make it free from the influence of right wing fanaticism and help BJP to adopt more Secular values than the religious values. 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Mariyam]

6 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:

What is a secularist...please tell me

The day minorities stop voting for Khangress,sp,bsp and Tmc,please come back and tell me what that means.



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In all fairness, minorities vote for the Akali Dal also. Not just the parties you mentioned.

And the NCP. And the AIMIM. And Rakhi Sawant's party. 

[Alam_dar]

4 hours ago, someone said:

Or dhimmis are ppl with Hindu names but have allegiance to other religion. These people often are in high influential posts, and have a deep hatred for Hinduism. The actual Hindu population imo is 60%.

Did you ever ponder why these Secular Hindus gave allegiance to the other religions (as you claim)? 

 

I don't know about these Hindu Secularists and why they hate Hindutva, but I know about myself that at some point when I felt that Mullah is causing "injustice" against the minorities, then I turned against Mullahs (i.e. the right wing). And later when I studied Islam and understood the evils of religion and how it is contrary to the Humanity, then I started hating Islam for this. 

 

I was also a traitor (so called Dhimmi) in Pakistan, with Muslim name, but still raising my voice for the rights of the Pakistani minorities. All liberal Pakistanis are declared traitor to Pakistan. And these Pakistani Liberals are also blamed to be occupying good posts, as they are the educated ones, mainly professors and lawyers. 

 

In America, right wing supporters are blaming those Seculars as traitors who advocate for the the Secular values. These right wins Americans look at Indians as 2nd class citizens, make jokes upon them. While the Secularists see Indians as equal human beings. 

 

In Israel, again the Secular forces are labelled as traitor to Israel, while they want the 2 state solution and equal rights for the Palestinians too. This make them Dhimmi too in the eyes of right wing orthodox Jews. 

 

There is a wave of fanaticism (religious or nationalistic) in who Europe today. There too Secularists are blamed to be the traitors for raising their voice for respect of humanity. 

 

[dial_100]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Did you ever ponder why these Secular Hindus gave allegiance to the other religions (as you claim)? 

 

I don't know about these Hindu Secularists and why they hate Hindutva, but I know about myself that at some point when I felt that Mullah is causing "injustice" against the minorities, then I turned against Mullahs (i.e. the right wing). And later when I studied Islam and understood the evils of religion and how it is contrary to the Humanity, then I started hating Islam for this. 

 

I was also a traitor (so called Dhimmi) in Pakistan, with Muslim name, but still raising my voice for the rights of the Pakistani minorities. All liberal Pakistanis are declared traitor to Pakistan. And these Pakistani Liberals are also blamed to be occupying good posts, as they are the educated ones, mainly professors and lawyers. 

 

In America, right wing supporters are blaming those Seculars as traitors who advocate for the the Secular values. These right wins Americans look at Indians as 2nd class citizens, make jokes upon them. While the Secularists see Indians as equal human beings. 

 

In Israel, again the Secular forces are labelled as traitor to Israel, while they want the 2 state solution and equal rights for the Palestinians too. This make them Dhimmi too in the eyes of right wing orthodox Jews. 

 

There is a wave of fanaticism (religious or nationalistic) in who Europe today. There too Secularists are blamed to be the traitors for raising their voice for respect of humanity. 

 

Now towards the serious topic. Indian hindus have only 1 problem with muslims and christians. Why do they try to proselytize the local population. Mostly christians. Muslims on the other hand are breeding like anything. I just heard a popular panelist on your TV channel that "humko europe, china, russia kar darr nahi, hume, america, israel or india ka darr hai". "Europe ka darr kyu nahi?". "Abhi bass 10 saal main hum log 50% se jaada ho jayenge to woh mulq hamare ho jayenge."

 

Go turn the mindsets of these idiots. Teach them the real secularism first. Hindus feel, there are many muslim countries, many Christian countries but only 1 hindu country and we are not going to give away to either. Hindus never go to america and dream that they would turn that country into all hindu country. 

 

On secularist in India, what the tuck have they done in India for minorities let alone majority. Jack. These liberal psec in India are all opportunist. Sab secularist in India are #1 phattus. 

[someone]

7 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Did you ever ponder why these Secular Hindus gave allegiance to the other religions (as you claim)?

 

You should ask this question to yourself firstly. The reasons are very simple of violence and some changed due to pure monetary benefits. But they are doing fraud by still keeping their Hindu names.

 

And many such converted people are highly influential in India. India is the only country where history is told from the prospective of the foreign invaders. We are largely taught history about the wars they won, their good things. But not on the wars they lost, not on the genocide they committed. It's like if Germany choose history to be told from the prospective of Hitler. Many things, placed were to be named after him, and he was made into a hero. This brainwashing is the big reason why many hate Hindus and where barbarians were made into heros. And Hindutva represents taking pride in oneself and understanding history through its' prospective. Thus, the clash is obvious.

[Alam_dar]

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

You have the right to your opinion, even if it is laughing at us.

 

Nevertheless, in Pakistan liberals were killed for speaking for the rights of the minorities. Salman Taseer is the one. Ansar Burni is the one who is in the Hit List. Even Edhi was declared Kafir for taking care of Humanity in Pakistan. Even I am myself on the hit list. My 2 friends/teachers are in the Pakistani prison. Many more tortured by the agencies. 

Reason is we all are traitors of Pakistan (this is what Pakistani agencies claim). 

 

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Now towards the serious topic. Indian hindus have only 1 problem with muslims and christians. Why do they try to proselytize the local population.

I don't have any problem with it, while It is the basic human right to preach. If Christians are preaching their religion, and people in India are accepting Christianity with their "free will", then nothing wrong with it. 

 

Hindus in India are also totally allowed to preach to the Indian Christians and to convert them to Hinduism. And Hindus in whole world are also allowed to convert people there. And in fact there are many such organisations who are doing it in name of Yoga and others like Haray Krishna Haray Rama etc. 

 

Problem is this that in India Dallits are very much angry with their Hindu Dharam (/ or at least from the upper caste Hindus) for the hardships they had to face for centuries, and unfortunately facing even till today. They are the one who are converting towards Christianity and Buddhism or even to Islam. 

 

If you want to stop this conversion, then try to change the attitude towards the Dallits, bring equity of rights and respect for them. BJP is high caste Hindu oriented party with little to no place for the Dallits. 

 

So, on one side you are not changing "enough", but on the other side you complain about the conversion of Dallits. 

 

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Muslims on the other hand are breeding like anything. I just heard a popular panelist on your TV channel that "humko europe, china, russia kar darr nahi, hume, america, israel or india ka darr hai". "Europe ka darr kyu nahi?". "Abhi bass 10 saal main hum log 50% se jaada ho jayenge to woh mulq hamare ho jayenge."

Yes, Muslims have this mindset unfortunately. 

 

The path goes through learning about the black sides of Islam and making people/Muslims aware of this and let then leave Islam. 

I am not afraid of Muslims, but Muslims are afraid of me. They never let me speak, while they know afterwards many normal Muslims will be doubting Islam. Therefore, Muslims are only after killing me and my Pakistani atheist friends. 

 

Problem is this that only atheist could win an argument against the Muslims in the debates, while science and humanity is on our side. But it is almost next to impossible for Christians or Hindus to win an argument against the Muslims while their own religions have such black holes which Muslim debaters exploit. 

 

Therefore, I have seen thousands of Muslims converting towards atheism, but almost none towards Christianity or Hinduism. I am an ex-Muslim. After leaving Islam, for me Christianity/Judaism/Hinduism are standing very near to Islam and I have never felt any attraction towards them. Same is the story about almost every ex-Muslim. 

 

The original Hindu Dharam teachings (as Dharmic Religion) does attracted me while it is close to the humanity. But present Hindu Dharam (as has been practised by BJP/RSS) has absolutely no attraction. Actually I am afraid of them almost as much as of Mullahs and Islam. 

 

Therefore, in the absence of winning the argument in the debates, the only path left for them (BJP) to counter Muslims in India, is to use the Force against them and turn them to the 2nd class citizens. 

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Go turn the mindsets of these idiots. Teach them the real secularism first.

I tried, I lost my friends, I lost my property, I am on the run for my life. 

Muslims are wrong. But lesson of Secularism has to be learnt by all (and not only the Muslims) for the benefit of Humanity. 

 

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Hindus feel, there are many muslim countries, many Christian countries but only 1 hindu country and we are not going to give away to either.

I feel your fears. 

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Hindus never go to america and dream that they would turn that country into all hindu country. 

Hindus do wish to convert the people of US towards Hinduism. If you get the ability of doing it (by preaching or even by force if the situation allows), then you would certainly do it.  It is in the Nature of human being.

 

But due to some reasons, preaching of present Hindu religion is not getting success. People of Europe/West are actually afraid of what they see happening in India. 

 

8 hours ago, dial_100 said:

On secularist in India, what the tuck have they done in India for minorities let alone majority. Jack. These liberal psec in India are all opportunist. Sab secularist in India are #1 phattus. 

I have heard members here telling that corruption of Congress is not as dangerous for India as the fanaticism of RSS and it's rise. And I agree with them on this Issue. 

[Alam_dar]

4 hours ago, someone said:

You should ask this question to yourself firstly. The reasons are very simple of violence and some changed due to pure monetary benefits. But they are doing fraud by still keeping their Hindu names.

May I ask you what "violence" has been done by the Indian Secularists? 

And what "monetary benefits" they got for raising their voices for the minorities? 

 

The true Secularists mostly come from the highly educated background and they are professors, lawyers, engineers, doctors. Due to the education, they do hold some good posts. But I don't think that they get any bribe or monetary benefits from the Muslims for speaking for their rights. 

 

Not all Secularists are angels, but also not all Secularists are devils, as we have been painted by the opposition. 

 

4 hours ago, someone said:

India is the only country where history is told from the prospective of the foreign invaders. We are largely taught history about the wars they won, their good things. But not on the wars they lost, not on the genocide they committed. It's like if Germany choose history to be told from the prospective of Hitler. Many things, placed were to be named after him, and he was made into a hero. This brainwashing is the big reason why many hate Hindus and where barbarians were made into heros. And Hindutva represents taking pride in oneself and understanding history through its' prospective. Thus, the clash is obvious.

May be. 

 

Nevertheless, what I understood is this that British is considered outsiders, and the Ghaznavi too. But Tipu and Mughuals are no more considered as the outsiders, and they are presented as other Hindu Rajas. 

 

Whatever, Hindu Rajas were also fighting with each other, killing the Hindus on both sides and there was slightly any difference in their attitude and the attitude of the Mughuls. But despite this, Hindu Rajas are "praised" by the BJP today.

 

BJP blames Mughuls and Tipu for being baised, but BJP is itself more biased than them in praising the Hindu Rajas. 

 

As far as I am concerned, then history does not effects me any more. For me, all the kings and Prophets were plunderer and they have no space in the modern world which should reflect Democracy and Secularism and Basic Human Rights.  

[randomGuy]

12 hours ago, Mariyam said:

In all fairness, minorities vote for the Akali Dal also. Not just the parties you mentioned.

And the NCP. And the AIMIM. And Rakhi Sawant's party. 

One of my issues with muslims - 

 

Akal = sanskrit/hindi word for timeless 

Dal= sanskrit/hindi word for party

 

When are indian Muslims or Muslim parties like aimim going to have Indian names? 

[Alam_dar]

Actually I am afraid I am only wasting my potential at this forum.

 

My real potential lies in writing Books upon Islam. There are no such books available (especially in Urdu Language). These books could change the fate of thousands or perhaps the millions. And I don't see any one other capable/experienced enough at moment for this job. 

 

But the arrest of my teacher/friends shocked me, whole community is on the run. I am still not out of this shock to concentrate on my aim. Our mistake was this that we wanted to change the things at our own. It was a blunder. We may be able to face the normal Muslims, but we had no chance against the Agencies. Even high court was personally involved in the case against us. 

 

We need the sponsors who could provide us safety. Otherwise we are going to be slaughtered and killed and arrested in the same way and nothing is going to happen.