So where is the line for 'Freedom of Speech' in a Democracy?

[Austin 3:!6]

I know the line 'Freedom of Speech' is infamous in this current BJP era but are we so sure that few people are NOT taking advantage of such freedom. From chanting 'Bharat ke sau tukde' to supporting Afzal Guru, everything has been said in the name of freedom of speech. But the question is, how far?

 

I was going through the tweets of Shehla Rashid, and she openly calls PM Modi a mass murderer.

 

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that only court has the right to provide verdict. And supreme court of the country, has given clean chit to Modi years ago for 2002 riots. So can anyone still call PM of the nation a 'MASS MURDERER' openly in the name of freedom of speech and get away with it? I do not see any media outrage, candle light protests, award wapasi against such tweets. Imagine its the other way round, and some ABVP guy tweets something derogatory like the above against minority community. Media would have gone bonkers.

 

Lets look at another tweet, where she is openly accusing union ministry of planning assassination of the PM.

Can anyone make such bold fancy statements in social media which has no proof what so ever and when questioned, they get away due to their freedom of speech? Or in the above tweet, she is trying to say that Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated by someone from Congress??

 

People like Shehla are so lucky they live in a country like India where they can get away by saying anything in the name of the freedom of speech. Imagine if anyone in Saudi Arab openly accusing the King? Surely that person will be jailed or hanged the next minute.

 

So my question is what is freedom of speech and where should anyone draw a line in a Democratic country like India?

 

@Muloghonto @Mariyam@asterix@Gollum@Stradlater@zen@Alam_dar@randomGuy

[Stradlater]

Clearly you are a brainwashed islamophobic, anti Dalit, Hindutva upper caste propagandist who sees everything with his saffron tinted glasses on.

 

What about those poor Kashmiri Children massacred by Indian army on a continuous basis? 

 

Ms Rashid has every right to spout anything she likes as long as her legs are wide open for those sophisticated Lutyens gents.

[Gollum]

Fist and foremost let us not compare ourselves with a hellhole like Saudi Arabia, human rights is an alien concept in that cursed Kingdom. We need better standards.

 

I am all for freedom of speech but there should be limits. We aren't a safe and secured 1st world country like Norway or Belgium that we can be so liberal, tolerant and forgiving....human rights can't be a free for all package here. We are in a precarious position surrounded by dangerous enemies and house many internal enemies who want the nation to implode. No need to go the extreme China route but social media should be monitored more closely than presently. This is a country where social media posts have resulted in terror recruitment, murders, riots, mob violence, lynchings, arson etc so need to tread with caution. Hate speech (by all sections) should attract punitive measures and so should rumor mongering and anti national messages. Hope GOI makes/amends a relevant law to make these offenses non bailable, this circus can't carry on.  This will be tough to implement but GOI needs to focus its energy to get this done, social media is here to stay and is a dangerous tool when operated by the wrong hands.

 

Coming to Shehla she is head b!tch of the tukde tukde gang, ideally people like her and Umar/Anirban should be given the royal Indian Police treatment or maybe even forced into silence. What is IB/NIA doing I can't understand? Maybe they have a deeper plan and are using these idiots as bait to catch the more dangerous culprits/anti nationals hiding behind the shadows, that is the only logical explanation I can think of. I can't tell you how much I hate some of these people masquerading as NGOs/activists/human rights orgs/commies etc. I hate them more than Pak based elements like Hafiz Saeed and Masood Azhar. I can make peace with the existence of external enemies but never with internal traitors.

 

The 'mass murderer' tweet by SR is contempt of court because Modi has been cleared by the courts. I have seen her and her likeminded circle mocking/undermining court judgements and casting doubt on the integrity/character of judges everytime they don't get favorable verdicts. I can't understand why the judges can't suo motu take action against such elements for contempt of court. They didn't hesitate to take action against Justice Karnan for contempt of court and the likes of SR have said far worse things. Ek ko daal do jail ke andar aur baaki sab line mein aa jaayenge. Gadkari has promised to take legal action against the witch, hope he proceeds in that direction in right earnest. No mercy on such dangerous people in our midst enjoying all the freedoms Mother India offers whilst trying to break her from within.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Gollum
spelling

[Stradlater]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Fist and foremost let us not compare ourselves with a hellhole like Saudi Arabia, human rights is an alien concept in that cursed Kingdom. We need better standards.

 

I am all for freedom of speech but there should be limits. We aren't a safe and secured 1st world country like Norway or Belgium that we can be so liberal, tolerant and forgiving....human rights can't be a free for all package here. We are in a precarious position surrounded by dangerous enemies and house many internal enemies who want the nation to implode. No need to go the extreme China route but social media should be monitored more closely than presently. This is a country where social media posts have resulted in terror recruitment, murders, riots, mob violence, lynchings, arson etc so need to tread with caution. Hate speech (by all sections) should attract punitive measures and so should rumor mongering and anti national messages. Hope GOI makes/amends a relevant law to make these offenses non bailable, this circus can't carry on.  This will be tough to implement but GOI needs to focus its energy to get this done, social media is here to stay and is a dangerous tool when operated by the wrong hands.

 

Coming to Shehla she is head b!tch of the tukde tukde gang, ideally people like her and Umar/Anirban should be given the royal Indian Police treatment or maybe even forced into silence. What is IB/NIA doing I can't understand? Maybe they have a deeper plan and are using these idiots as bait to catch the more dangerous culprits/anti nationals hiding behind the shadows, that is the only logical explanation I can think of. I can't tell you how much I hate some of these people masquerading as NGOs/activists/human rights orgs/commies etc. I hate them more than Pak based elements like Hafiz Saeed and Masood Azhar. I can make peace with the existence of external enemies but never with internal traitors.

 

The 'mass murderer' tweet by SR is contempt of court because Modi has been cleared by the courts. I have seen her and her likeminded circle mocking/undermining court judgements and casting doubt on the integrity/character of judges everytime they don't get favorable verdicts. I can't understand why the judges can't suo motu take action against such elements for contempt of court. They didn't hesitate to take action against Justice Karnan for contempt of court and the likes of SR have said far worse things. Ek ko daal do jail ke andar aur baaki sab line mein aa jaayenge. Gadkari has promised to take legal action against the b!tch, hope he proceeds in that direction in right earnest. No mercy on such dangerous people in our midst enjoying all the freedoms Mother India offers whilst trying to break her from within.

This concept of freedom of speech has limitations in Europe as well. Yesterday only German Fans booed Gundogan in Germany's game against Saudi Arabia because of his stance in favor of Erdogan.

Him and Ozil has been repeatedly criticized in the media for openly declaring their allegiance for Erdogan inspite of being born and bred in Germany.

 

I mean I challange anyone to openly doubt the veracity of holocaust claims in western europe. That guy would be put behind the bars for ever.

[zen]

From wiki:

 

 “The version of Article 19 in the ICCPR later amends this by stating that the exercise of these rights (Freedom of speech) carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "[f]or respect of the rights or reputation of others" or "[f]or the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals".”

 

“Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury.“

 

 

[Stradlater]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

From wiki:

 

 “The version of Article 19 in the ICCPR later amends this by stating that the exercise of these rights (Freedom of speech) carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "[f]or respect of the rights or reputation of others" or "[f]or the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals".”

 

“Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury.“

 

 

Of course it's not absolute. Infact no fundamental right except maybe art 17(abolition of Untouchablity) is sacrosanct. They are liable to be suspended under various circumstances.

[Austin 3:!6]

Now Shehla Rashid is saying that post against Gadkari is apparently a 'Sarcasm'. What a clown

 

But Gadkari will take legal action

 

[asterix]

FOE is fine... This present Govt can’t even ban NDTV for one day, because of over reaction & protests.

Legal recourse should be used by individuals against the uttering of people like Sehla Rashid... that’s the best option. Don’t involve Govt in it. It already has too many issue to deal with...

BTW Sehla will be in active politics by next year like Jignesh Mewani...

It’s the failure of the current dispensation to not able to use intelligence agencies effectively. No point blaming others...

[beetle]

Drag her to court like Kejriwal was.

She will spend a whole year apogizing 

 

 

[asterix]

[Trichromatic]

13 hours ago, beetle said:

Drag her to court like Kejriwal was.

She will spend a whole year apogizing 

 

 

Dragging her to court will benefit her only. 

[Muloghonto]

17 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

I know the line 'Freedom of Speech' is infamous in this current BJP era but are we so sure that few people are NOT taking advantage of such freedom. From chanting 'Bharat ke sau tukde' to supporting Afzal Guru, everything has been said in the name of freedom of speech. But the question is, how far?

 

I was going through the tweets of Shehla Rashid, and she openly calls PM Modi a mass murderer.

 

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that only court has the right to provide verdict. And supreme court of the country, has given clean chit to Modi years ago for 2002 riots. So can anyone still call PM of the nation a 'MASS MURDERER' openly in the name of freedom of speech and get away with it? I do not see any media outrage, candle light protests, award wapasi against such tweets. Imagine its the other way round, and some ABVP guy tweets something derogatory like the above against minority community. Media would have gone bonkers.

 

Lets look at another tweet, where she is openly accusing union ministry of planning assassination of the PM.

Can anyone make such bold fancy statements in social media which has no proof what so ever and when questioned, they get away due to their freedom of speech? Or in the above tweet, she is trying to say that Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated by someone from Congress??

 

People like Shehla are so lucky they live in a country like India where they can get away by saying anything in the name of the freedom of speech. Imagine if anyone in Saudi Arab openly accusing the King? Surely that person will be jailed or hanged the next minute.

 

So my question is what is freedom of speech and where should anyone draw a line in a Democratic country like India?

 

@Muloghonto @Mariyam@asterix@Gollum@Stradlater@zen@Alam_dar@randomGuy

 

The answer is simple - any libel is off-limits that is directed against a person or a corporation that exists.

Ie, saying Modi is a mass-murderer, is libel. And if this was a western nation with fast justice system, Modi would probably sue her for libel.

Same goes for any person, any corporation that exists today. Ie(assuming all the following statements are factually false), if i say ' Rahul Dravid had sex with me'/ ' Tendulkar hit my dog'/ ' Preity Zinta killed my cat'/'McDonalds put poison in my food', etc., are not protected under freedom of speech, as they are specific allegations that are not true and are damaging to the person.

However, if i said ' Preity Zinta hit on me/Rahul Dravid was suggestive around me', they are permissible under freedom of speech, as those are subjective interpretations and both parties can be reconciled by the 'its your opinion' paradigm.

Same goes with saying 'British East India Company was a saintly corporation/Mohammed was a maniac/Buddha was fat'  etc - all these allegations, even if false, are directed towards entities that do not exist anymore. Hence permissible.

[eternalhope]

So what is the solution? Jail time, I guess our Jails will be overflowing if we take social media rubbish also into account. We all know who will be the ultimate losers here.

[Alam_dar]

On 6/11/2018 at 5:48 AM, Muloghonto said:

 

The answer is simple - any libel is off-limits that is directed against a person or a corporation that exists.

Ie, saying Modi is a mass-murderer, is libel. And if this was a western nation with fast justice system, Modi would probably sue her for libel.

Same goes for any person, any corporation that exists today. Ie(assuming all the following statements are factually false), if i say ' Rahul Dravid had sex with me'/ ' Tendulkar hit my dog'/ ' Preity Zinta killed my cat'/'McDonalds put poison in my food', etc., are not protected under freedom of speech, as they are specific allegations that are not true and are damaging to the person.

However, if i said ' Preity Zinta hit on me/Rahul Dravid was suggestive around me', they are permissible under freedom of speech, as those are subjective interpretations and both parties can be reconciled by the 'its your opinion' paradigm.

Same goes with saying 'British East India Company was a saintly corporation/Mohammed was a maniac/Buddha was fat'  etc - all these allegations, even if false, are directed towards entities that do not exist anymore. Hence permissible.

Exactly my opinion. 

 

Western countries have dealt with this question of freedom of speech in their courts intensively and there is almost a clear picture now what comes under freedom of speech and what does not. 

 

Using Agencies is only going to make them more infamous. This is happening in Pakistan at moment, where new Cyber crime bill was introduced. And now Agencies are abducting people (journalists, politicians, normal citizens, any one who dare to criticize Army or agencies). 

 

It may benefit BJP temporarily, but will make agencies infamous like CBI has been used by BJP against the opponents and thus becoming disputed. 

 

===

 

Please excuse me for telling my full observation. Please bear it even if it goes against your opinion. 

 

Let me point it out that freedom of Speech and sloppy Indian judiciary are working both ways at moment. 

 

If Shela Rasheed is claiming Modi to be mass murderer, then BJP supporters are also claiming Piryanka Chopra to be traitor of India and and enemy's agent. If true Western values are applied, then both of these cases will become criminal. 

 

Moreover,  telling any Indian (Muslim/Liberal) that he is a Pakistani and should leave India and go to Pakistan, will also become crime and will come under the hate speech. 

 

Sure, if you don't want JUSTICE (which is a 2 way game), but want to play one sided game (i.e. BJP should be allowed to do so, but Liberals should not, under the pretext of Dangers to India and Hinduism), then it is another thing.  But personally I don't support it while it is not in long term benefit of India and it will extremely polarize Indian society with no trust in the Indian State organisations, even no trust in the judiciary then. It is very important that people do have trust in the justice, otherwise they become open rebels. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Khalpat]

Putting your personal opinion in public domain as a fact is something which is the main reason for all conflicts.

 

If Shehla would have said, " In my opinion a mass murderer is trying to play victim" the psychological impact would have been less.

 

The problem with elitist mindset lutyens liberal is that they think they are "different". They like to believe that they are at higher intellectual level and refuse to mingle with masses (or they call bhakts). That is the reason they put their opinion so strongly as if it is a fact. This makes masses abuse them and then their hatred increases. Unfortunately there is no solution for this.

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Khalpat said:

Putting your personal opinion in public domain as a fact is something which is the main reason for all conflicts.

 

If Shehla would have said, " In my opinion a mass murderer is trying to play victim" the psychological impact would have been less.

 

The problem with elitist mindset lutyens liberal is that they think they are "different". They like to believe that they are at higher intellectual level and refuse to mingle with mass

I also believe that there is lack of Education too in this matter. Politicians, especially the young ones like Shela Rasheed don't know exactly how to represent their opinions without colliding with the laws. 

 

Media should educate itself and also educate the politicians about this matter. 

[Gollum]

 

This anti-national creature has been spreading lies about our armed forces on a daily basis, the JNU habit of demonizing our braves, *ing bitch, should be behind bars. She has history in these fake news matters, been called out many time....like that lie about Kashmiri girls trapped in Dehradun hostel which Uttarakhand police denied. No wonder she and Shah Faesal have so much common ground. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Gollum

[diga]

These urban naxals must be reined before any meaningful reforms

[Yoda-esque]

I welcome such statements.Ensures that Modi stays in power.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[kosingh]

 

The armed forced are mixing oil with rice? Oh lord, that's ethnic cleansing. That's genocide.