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Dil Dil India

WIMBLEDON 2018 discussion (and grass tune ups)

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21 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Even if he wins this he won't catch it, don't worry.

it's getting closer. 20 to 17 now. It will be 18. From 2005 to 2014, Nadal has won at least one major title. 10 years straight. 

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2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

it's getting closer. 20 to 17 now. It will be 18. From 2005 to 2014, Nadal has won at least one major title. 10 years straight. 

It will get closer only if he wins, otherwise 3 is the gap it was when Nadal won his first slam (Fed was on 4). Even if he gets this, he needs 3 slams to surpass the record (assuming Fed doesn't extend it)...not a given...he was vulnerable at RG this year.

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On 7/10/2018 at 3:18 AM, Dil Dil India said:

So it will be:

 

Federer v. Anderson

Isner v. Raonic

Djokovic v. Nishikori

Nadal v. Simon/Del Potro

 

Djokovic's luck is amazing. He had a piss easy draw for a #21 ranked player. His only potential QF threats Zverev and Kyrgios, both of whom he has a losing record against, have been taken out and instead he gets his pigeon who is one of the biggest losers in tennis today. He will bendover again to his master in the QF.

 

I really hope Nadal takes out fakervic. Even as a Federer fan, IDGAF if Nadal gets closer to the slam record. Fakervic with his ugly sliding game winning a 4th Wimbledon would be an absolute travesty.

How did he fell so much, #21?

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2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

How did he fell so much, #21?

He was injured, had shoulder surgery and missed 6-7 months...points dropped off. Similar to Federer in AO 2017 who was world no 17 after being out for 6 months cos of knee surgery. Even Andy Murray who had hip surgery has been out for 8 odd months and consequently out of top 150, Wawrinka is world no 225 because of similar reasons. 

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What a historical Semi Final , two above 30 Giants , Kevin 6-8" , Isner 6-10"  in 

6 hour 35 minutes marathon , Anderson 2 sets and match point down against Federer is now in final

 

 

Edited by Singh bling

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So they closed the roof before it actually got dark, but then "had" to continue the next day because rules state both players have to agree to the roof being open? LOL! It's an outdoor tournament FFS.  I reckon Nadal would have won if it was outdoors given Djokovic is a better player indoors.

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2 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

So they closed the roof before it actually got dark, but then "had" to continue the next day because rules state both players have to agree to the roof being open? LOL! It's an outdoor tournament FFS.  I reckon Nadal would have won if it was outdoors given Djokovic is a better player indoors.

They closed the roof because time was running out after the other long SF and closing roof after 10 minutes of play would have meant another 15 minutes time waste. So they did that between the 2 matches. And it is a rule that match should finish the way it started unless both players have a different view about it. There is no conspiracy here just like there was no conspiracy in AO with the closed roof final between Fed and Cilic. Nole owns Nadal even outdoors (off clay) but I agree that this version of Djokovic would have been more vulnerable with open roof. Nadal has no one else to blame but himself, never should have lost that TB after the way he conducted that set and the way his opponent was playing the big points. 

 

If you are a Fed fan you must be happy, had Nadal beaten Nole, tomorrow this time he would be celebrating with a 3rd Wimbledon Trophy and just 2 short off Fed's 20. Nole did the Swiss a great favor here. Now hoping Anderson takes out Nole :evil:. In light of this 5+ hours match I think the difference in fatigue won't be that stark and the Serbian has always found tall servebots tough to handle...and the Saffer has a decent ground game to boot, plus he seems to have worked on his mental game. 

Edited by Gollum

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17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

They closed the roof because time was running out after the other long SF and closing roof after 10 minutes of play would mean another 15 minutes time waste. So they did that between the 2 matches. And it is a rule that match should finish the way it started unless both players have a different view about it. There is no conspiracy here just like there was no conspiracy in AO with the closed roof final between Fed and Cilic. Nole owns Nadal even outdoors (off clay) but I agree that this version of Djokovic would have been more vulnerable with open roof. Nadal has no one else to blame but himself, never should have lost that TB after the way he conducted that set and the way his opponent was playing the big points. 

 

If you are a Fed fan you must be happy, Nadal would have a sureshot 3rd Wimbledon Crown and just 2 short off Fed's 20. Nole did the Swiss a great favor here. Now hoping Anderson takes out Nole :evil:. In light of this 5+ hours match I think the the difference in fatigue won't be that stark and the Serbian has always found tall servebots tough to handle...and the Saffer has a decent ground game to boot, plus he seems to have worked on his mental game. 

The bolded part is what I have a problem with. They had no business doing that particularly keeping in mind the "rule" (which funnily doesn't seem to apply when outdoors becomes indoors). With sunlight and no rain, Wimbledon acted at their own discretion (and wrongly). Every effort should be made to keep an outdoor tournament an outdoor one barring rain etc. In the absence of it, they should not have done it. 

Nole owning Nadal outdoors at what exactly? Bo3 yes, but bo5? he doesn't. Prior to this they were 3-3 in bo5 off clay (1-1 Wimby, 2-1 USO Nadal and 1-0 AO Djo). And as you say this DJokovic is still a far cry from his former self and Nadal played his best grass match since 2010. I also agree that despite everything Nadal still had chances and probably should have taken either the third set breaker or the BPs form 15-40 twice in the 5th.

I am a Fed fan but I think Djokovic winning a 4th Wimbledon heavily flatters him. He was lucky to duck Fed in 2011; was pretty mediocre in 2014 and Fed/Cilic/Dmitrov all let him off the hook. 2015 F was a great match from him but he avoided his nemesis on grass Andy and also barely scraped past KAndy. Nadal with 3 Wimbledons is easier to take because he faced peak Fed twice and prime Fed once(albeit in one of his worst slam winning years). By contrast, Djoko hasn't faced a Fed younger than 31 at Wimby (and still got his clock cleaned) and then faced up vs 33 and 34 year old Fed in 14 and 15. It is what it is and trust me I have no love lost for Nadal; but I just dislike fakervic's fake persona and gamesmanship.

Wrt to the final, I don't see how Kandy has a prayer. Did you see his PC yesterday? He looked done and who can blame him. He's played 11 hours and the equivalent of 14 sets worth of tennis in the last 3 days. I just don't see how he gets it done. Djokovic's 5 hour match was split into 2 and played over 2 days and that's easier on the body...plus his earlier rounds where much easier where he faced bendikori, zeballos and other mugs...whereas poor Kandy had to go through Fed and Isner.

 

What do you think will happen? I would love for Kandy to win, but just don't see it. Djokovic in easy 3 is my pick; 4 if Kandy takes a TB.

Edited by Dil Dil India

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One of the most exhilarating 2 days of tennis I have ever seen. Nole didn't look at his absolute best but he is slowly getting there which means danger in the American HC swing. Pity Fed didn't face him in 2017, now his ground game has deserted him and he will find it tough against Nole. Nadal probably lost his last chance at SW19 but was very very impressive, he will deserve YE #1 for the 2nd year running thus tying him with Fed and just 1 behind Sampras. 

 

For me story of this tournament is Kevin Anderson irrespective of the final result. Fervently hope he battles exhaustion and gets the job done today against a slightly favorable match up (he would have had no chance against the Spanish Bull) and equally gassed opponent. 

 

Also high time Wimbledon changes its TB rules in 5th set, may be after 10-10 or 12-12 there has to be a TB. Surely that Isner-Mahut marathon must have taught them something? Unlike clay on grass it is difficult to break the service games of giant servebots and it is crazy to not enforce TBs at some point lest you have 2 walking corpses at the end of the tussle. 

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1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

The bolded part is what I have a problem with. They had no business doing that particularly keeping in mind the "rule" (which funnily doesn't seem to apply when outdoors becomes indoors). With sunlight and no rain, Wimbledon acted at their own discretion (and wrongly). Every effort should be made to keep an outdoor tournament an outdoor one barring rain etc. In the absence of it, they should not have done it. 

Nole owning Nadal outdoors at what exactly? Bo3 yes, but bo5? he doesn't. Prior to this they were 3-3 in bo5 off clay (1-1 Wimby, 2-1 USO Nadal and 1-0 AO Djo). And as you say this DJokovic is still a far cry from his former self and Nadal played his best grass match since 2010. I also agree that despite everything Nadal still had chances and probably should have taken either the third set breaker or the BPs form 15-40 twice in the 5th.

I am a Fed fan but I think Djokovic winning a 4th Wimbledon heavily flatters him. He was lucky to duck Fed in 2011; was pretty mediocre in 2014 and Fed/Cilic/Dmitrov all let him off the hook. 2015 F was a great match from him but he avoided his nemesis on grass Andy and also barely scraped past KAndy. Nadal with 3 Wimbledons is easier to take because he faced peak Fed twice and prime Fed once(albeit in one of his worst slam winning years). By contrast, Djoko hasn't faced a Fed younger than 31 at Wimby (and still got his clock cleaned) and then faced up vs 33 and 34 year old Fed in 14 and 15. It is what it is and trust me I have no love lost for Nadal; but I just dislike fakervic's fake persona and gamesmanship.

Wrt to the final, I don't see how Kandy has a prayer. Did you see his PC yesterday? He looked done and who can blame him. He's played 11 hours and the equivalent of 14 sets worth of tennis in the last 3 days. I just don't see how he gets it done. Djokovic's 5 hour match was split into 2 and played over 2 days and that's easier on the body...plus his earlier rounds where much easier where he faced bendikori, zeballos and other mugs...whereas poor Kandy had to go through Fed and Isner.

 

What do you think will happen? I would love for Kandy to win, but just don't see it. Djokovic in easy 3 is my pick; 4 if Kandy takes a TB.

What's your opinion about the AO final earlier this year? I believe indoors suited Cilic more but still many Nadal/Djoker fans were crying hoarse about it being an indoor final and organizers favoring the Swiss. In such cases I mostly side with the organizers because they would be having valid reasons for their actions. AO men's F was played under closed roofs not only because of high temperature & humidity but also because of Halep's admission to hospital (dehydration IIRC) the previous night after that energy sapping F against Wozniacki. May be they felt it would have been bad publicity to play the men's finals outdoors and risk similar embarrassment? Similarly here I am sure organizers must have had their reasons. Play was to be called off at 11 p.m. and people had paid to watch 2 completed SFs with major focus being the Djokodal clash. So they wanted to pack in as much of action as possible lest the paying spectators felt let down. Imagine both of them (who were already made to wait a lot courtesy the previous SF) coming to court to play till 2-2 1st set and again taken off for roof closing....apart from annoying the spectators that would have also thrown the players off rhythm and they would have had to start afresh under different conditions. And how would organizers know it would continue next day? Someone might have finished the match in under 3 hours !!!!

 

I agree that Nole doesn't own Nadal in BO5 anywhere. He is a better player outside clay but no one can possibly own Nadal in BO5..I'll give the Spaniard that. 

 

I too am a Fed fan and dislike Nadal/Djoker equally especially their demeanor. I root for/against them depending on how it would benefit Fed. Here I supported Nole but against KAndy I'll be damaging my vocal cords for the latter. I also want Nole to pick up because I have a suspicion that Nadal will retire after Fed. As such we have so little competition these days, a fit and firing Nole will keep Nadal in check and protect Fed's major count. I don't think he will get anywhere close to 20, someone needs to stop Nadal and he is the best candidate among current players. 

 

I rate Nole as a very good player on grass, 2nd best behind Fed post 2000.

 

2011: He was on a tear that year but Fed could have stopped him just like how he did in RG and almost in USO. Not Nole's fault that Fed blew a 2-0 set lead against Tsonga. He still had to beat Tsonga and Nadal en route. Even Fed had a lucky break in 2009 SW19 with Nadal out injured and his pigeon in the F.....or for that matter RG which he would have never won if not for Soderling. 

 

2014/2015: Both Fed's fault. 2014 Fed was atrocious (that FH :facepalm:) while in 2015 F Nole produced a ROS masterclass, too bad Fed already peaked in the SF against Murray.  See he still faced a very good Fed, so I won't underestimate his 2 titles because even non peak Fed is a handful especially if he is good enough to be in F. Besides I think worst Fed was 2008 wallah where he had mono plus psychological scars courtesy RG beatdown. I rate Nole's twin wins in 2014/15 above that 2008 F which I frankly find very over rated, especially Fed's level. You may feel Nole got lucky in Wimbledon but USO has compensated for that where he has only 2 wins out of 7 finals while Rafa has 3 out of 4 (that is unflattering...3 more than Fed+Nole post 2008 :wall:). Some things we can't explain rationally eg Fed's last USO came in 2008 which was a run of 5 consecutive USOs:dontknow:, inarguably his best major in that period. 

 

Regrading the F heart says KAndy, head says Nole. Nole may have spent the 5 hours across 2 days but unlike KAndy he was moved a lot all over the court by Nadal. Isner didn't even bother with his return games for most parts of the SF yesterday, in that sense things may even out a bit. Servebots don't expend as much energy as baseliners. Another thing we'll have to factor is Nole is coming back after a hiatus and his fitness isn't at full gear, notice how he was out of breath yesterday after some long rallies? Pre 2016 Nole had infinite stamina, this version is still a work in progress. I won't rule out the Saffer because he seems to have worked on his mental game while Nole will feel pressure because he hasn't won anything significant for over 2 years. Unlike Nadal, Nole won't be a matchup issue for KAndy and Nole had terrible BP conversion against a poorer server these last 2 days. However if I were to bet it would be Nole in 4 sets....KAndy's legs will desert him at some point and he will simply give up.

 

Edited by Gollum

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9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

What's your opinion about the AO final earlier this year? I believe indoors suited Cilic more but still many Nadal/Djoker fans were crying hoarse about it being an indoor final and organizers favoring the Swiss. In such cases I mostly side with the organizers because they would be having valid reasons for their actions. AO men's F was played under closed roofs not only because of high temperature & humidity but also because of Halep's admission to hospital (dehydration IIRC) the previous night after that energy sapping F against Wozniacki. May be they felt it would have been bad publicity to play the men's finals outdoors and risk similar embarrassment? Similarly here I am sure organizers must have had their reasons. Play was to be called off at 11 p.m. and people had paid to watch 2 completed SFs with major focus being the Djokodal clash. So they wanted to pack in as much of action as possible lest the paying spectators felt let down. Imagine both of them (who were already made to wait a lot courtesy the previous SF) coming to court to play till 2-2 1st set and again taken off for roof closing....apart from annoying the spectators that would have also thrown the players off rhythm and they would have had to start afresh under different conditions. And how would organizers know it would continue next day? Someone might have finished the match in under 3 hours !!!!

 

I agree that Nole doesn't own Nadal in BO5 anywhere. He is a better player outside clay but no one can possibly own Nadal in BO5..I'll give the Spaniard that. 

 

I too am a Fed fan and dislike Nadal/Djoker equally especially their demeanor. I root for/against them depending on how it would benefit Fed. Here I supported Nole but against KAndy I'll be damaging my vocal cords for the latter. I also want Nole to pick up because I have a suspicion that Nadal will retire after Fed. As such we have so little competition these days, a fit and firing Nole will keep Nadal in check and protect Fed's major count. I don't think he will get anywhere close to 20, someone needs to stop Nadal and he is the best candidate among current players. 

 

I rate Nole as a very good player on grass, 2nd best behind Fed post 2000.

 

2011: He was on a tear that year but Fed could have stopped him just like how he did in RG and almost in USO. Not Nole's fault that Fed blew a 2-0 set lead against Tsonga. He still had to beat Tsonga and Nadal en route. Even Fed had a lucky break in 2009 SW19 with Nadal out injured and his pigeon in the F.....or for that matter RG which he would have never won if not for Soderling. 

 

2014/2015: Both Fed's fault. 2014 Fed was atrocious (that FH :facepalm:) while in 2015 F Nole produced a ROS masterclass, too bad Fed already peaked in the SF against Murray.  See he still faced a very good Fed, so I won't underestimate his 2 titles because even non peak Fed is a handful especially if he is good enough to be in F. Besides I think worst Fed was 2008 wallah where he had mono plus psychological scars courtesy RG beatdown. I rate Nole's twin wins in 2014/15 above that 2008 F which I frankly find very over rated, especially Fed's level. You may feel Nole got lucky in Wimbledon but USO has compensated for that where he has only 2 wins out of 7 finals while Rafa has 3 out of 4 (that is unflattering...3 more than Fed+Nole post 2008 :wall:). Some things we can't explain rationally eg Fed's last USO came in 2008 which was a run of 5 consecutive USOs:dontknow:, inarguably his best major in that period. 

 

Regrading the F heart says KAndy, head says Nole. Nole may have spent the 5 hours across 2 days but unlike KAndy he was moved a lot all over the court by Nadal. Isner didn't even bother with his return games for most parts of the SF yesterday, in that sense things may even out a bit. Servebots don't expend as much energy as baseliners. Another thing we'll have to factor is Nole is coming back after a hiatus and his fitness isn't at full gear, notice how he was out of his breath yesterday after some long rallies? Pre 2016 Nole had infinite stamina, this version is still a work in progress. I won't rule out the Saffer because he seems to have worked on his mental game while Nole will feel pressure because he hasn't won anything significant for over 2 years. Unlike Nadal, Nole won't be a matchup issue for KAndy and Nole had terrible BP conversion against a poorer server these last 2 days. However if I were to bet it would be Nole in 4 sets....KAndy's legs will desert him at some point and he will simply give up.

 

Didn't the AO final have that wetbulb test or whatever it was? And IIRC some WTA player (was it Halep?, don't remember now) fainted because of the extreme conditions. Here, the Wimby organizers just seemed to be trying to make up for their own scheduling incompetence and their own interests.  Given that there was light and no rain/no need for the roof, they should have started without the roof on IMO. If they were that keen on getting everything done on time, they should have started the Isner Kandy botfest another couple of hours earlier. These same schedulers completely messed up the QF schedule by having both halves on 1 court because Novak was a whiny crybaby.

 

Fed had a lucky break with RG 09 sure, but Novak had a bigger break with Nadal having to pull out of RG 16 due to injury (and not even to mention his racket toss which could and arguably should have seen him disqualified). My point is Djo has usually ducked everyone who can beat him on grass at a particular point in time (AMurray in 15, Fed in 11) and barely scraped through matches he should have lost in the opening rounds. Fed was decent in 14/15 (good if you want, but that's semantics; wouldn't rate it any higher)...even if he discount 2008, 2007 was peak Fed and Nadal took him to 5 and 2006, arguably Fed's highest level on grass, Nadal took a set...if Djo 14-15 had to face 06-07 Fed, he'd be on 1 Wimbledon. I agree it was Fed's fault too in those finals but with advancing age, the mental aspect becomes more pronounced. Fed knew he had to win in straights or at most 4, as he knew wouldn't have the legs to compete if it became a long drawn match.

As for USO, I feel Djo was lucky to win the 2 he did (damn it Fed for especially 2011) so any bad luck he may have had there is more than balanced out...and that 2016 F run draw was ridiculous. 

 

Anyway moving on to the match, I agree that 3 or 4 sets in favor of Nole is the most probable result. Wrt to the distance run, I did read about that and I do agree that baseliners expend more energy. My main worry is that KAndy's arm may be too sore to serve well and if that is gone then Nole could beat him left-handed. I have a horrible feeling that KAndy will either lose something like 6-2 6-2 6-1 or retire mid-match. He's also carrying an injury apparently from what I understand which is why he's wearing compressor shorts.

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Since I started following tennis first time I switched off the TV during men's final....took me about 20 minutes to make that decision. I sat through Hewitt-Nalbandian and Murray-Raonic **** fests but this I can not take. Congrats Nole fans but what a letdown this final has been. Only positive is that I can watch the FIFA F in peace.

Edited by Gollum

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

After this farce Djokovic will have more Wimbledon crowns than McEnroe, Becker....he's already ahead of Edberg :sad_smile:. Meanwhile Nadal already has more USOs than Djokovic and Agassi. Tennis can seem so random sometimes, defies all logic.

Federer has to win USO to make amends. I am fuming that fakervic managed to win this.

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Huge win for Djokovic, deserves it after outclutching Nadal in the semi final. That was the true final but Anderson would have played better if he had not played for 11 hours in the last 4 days. As for the roof, they had no option but to close it on Friday, but it was nothing but an utter stupidity to keep it closed on Saturday when there was bright sunshine outside. The roof tilted the match in Djokovic's favor, even then it was mighty close. Serving first in the 5th set was also an advantage for him. There's a huge difference between saving break points and match points. But with big 3 playing well at the same time, it seems tennis is getting exciting again. 

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10 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Federer has to win USO to make amends. I am fuming that fakervic managed to win this.

How do you think Fed should schedule the rest of the year? Reckon he'll play in Toronto?

 

I'll be happy with either USO or the ATP Finals. Plus 2 out of Cinci, Shanghai and Basel.

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36 minutes ago, Gollum said:

How do you think Fed should schedule the rest of the year? Reckon he'll play in Toronto?

 

I'll be happy with either USO or the ATP Finals. Plus 2 out of Cinci, Shanghai and Basel.

I have mixed feelings about the scheduling tbh. I am not a big fan of skipping tournaments unless absolutely needed (clay is okay to skip at this age because his body needs it). Last year he skipped Paris masters and put all his eggs into the WTF basket and ended up losing to Goffin. Only Fed knows how much his body can handle and at 37 he obviously can't play them all. He will play Cincy, USO, Basel, WTF. If he feels upto it, he should play Shanghai as well - I think he will as he's defending champion. He can't do Toronto+Cincy back to back anymore so he should focus on Cincy which is his best masters. He should try and end the year top 3. If he somehow wins USO he'll have bragging rights for the year over Nadalovic. Realistically, I'd be satisfied with Cincy and WTF.

 

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