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ESPN Cricinfo ODI eleven of the last 25 years

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7. MS Dhoni

 

Dhoni has the strength of an ox, the alacrity of a cat, and a technique all his own. He hits sixes as lustily as he steals singles nimbly, and has turned finishing-line manoeuvres into a party trick - none as famous as the straight six for the 2011 World Cup. Besides, no other keeper has 100 stumpings in one-day cricket.

Did you know? Dhoni has remained unbeaten in 44 winning chases, the highest in ODI history. Jonty Rhodes is next with 33.

 

:p:

who wrote this ? :biggrin:

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15 minutes ago, velu said:

 

7. MS Dhoni

 

Dhoni has the strength of an ox, the alacrity of a cat, and a technique all his own. He hits sixes as lustily as he steals singles nimbly, and has turned finishing-line manoeuvres into a party trick - none as famous as the straight six for the 2011 World Cup. Besides, no other keeper has 100 stumpings in one-day cricket.

Did you know? Dhoni has remained unbeaten in 44 winning chases, the highest in ODI history. Jonty Rhodes is next with 33.

 

:p:

who wrote this ? :biggrin:

writer himself asking who wrote this! :confused:

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How come Gilliy, AB & Dhoni into that list not crossing 10000 runs as batsmen? :cantstop: I put Inzi, Ganguly, Sanga, Ponting, Jayasuriya & Waqar into my list. They are pure ODI players. There are plenty of players for ODI. Therefore it needs to create 2 lists. 

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51 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Kallis at 6 is a joke. Dhoni should bat at 6 with Klusener or Symonds at 7.

Klusner?? :cantstop: Seriously? :cantstop: How many matches has he played? If you are saying Klusner is suitable I can say Afridi is 10 times more suitable than trundler klusner for no 6 spot as a pinch hitter + wicket taker (pure all rounder) :cantstop:

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To me, there are lot of underrated players who would have been picked for another list likes of Dravid, Anwer, Yusuf, Jayawardene, Symonds, De Silva, Vittori, Hayden, Yuvraj, Benvan, Hussey, Clarke, Malinga, Kumble, Gayle, Gibbs, Kirsten, Vaas, Fleming, etc who served well to their country during last 25 years in ODIs. Criteria is more than 5000 runs scored and 300+ wickets taken.

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47 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

S Jayasuriya

S Tendulkar

B Lara

V Kohli

A DeVilliers

*+ M Dhoni

L Klusener

B Lee

W Akram

S Warne

M Muralitharan

 

 

 

Ricky Ponting instead of Brian lara Gilchrist/Dhoni based on where you are playing and it looks good.

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4 hours ago, Lala said:

How come Gilliy, AB & Dhoni into that list not crossing 10000 runs as batsmen? :cantstop: I put Inzi, Ganguly, Sanga, Ponting, Jayasuriya & Waqar into my list. They are pure ODI players. There are plenty of players for ODI. Therefore it needs to create 2 lists. 

Zulu was probably the best chaser in the late 90s... 

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Won't have MSD when Gilly is already there. Ponting over Kohli because I prefer big match players, plus he plays as captain. Kallis is a joke selection, bring in Symonds or Yuvi (depending on conditions) in place of him. Dhoni ke jagah Flintoff and Saqlain in place of Murali.

 

My XI will be:

 

Gilly (wk)

SRT

Ponting (c)

Lara

ABDV

Yuvi/Symonds

Flintoff

Akram

Warne

Saqlain

Mcgrath

 

Edited by Gollum

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Kallis is not a bad pick ; cant have a side bristling with shot makers an anchor type batsman is useful. Obviously he cant bat at 6. Put him at 3 and push everyone down a slot

 

I think Ponting in, maybe for Lara, Shaun Pollock merits serious consideration too. 

 

 

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I would drop Sachin and play a real unselfish matchwinner. Playing Sachin and his tuk taking means lower order power of ABd and Dhoni will be wasted.

I'll drop Tendy, ask Kallia to open and bring in another all rounder at 7

 

That way you have solid batting and 6 proper bowlers

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3 hours ago, UnknownGenius said:

I would drop Sachin and play a real unselfish matchwinner. Playing Sachin and his tuk taking means lower order power of ABd and Dhoni will be wasted.

I'll drop Tendy, ask Kallia to open and bring in another all rounder at 7

 

That way you have solid batting and 6 proper bowlers

Sachin is tuk tuk and Kallis isnt. I must have watched cricket in some other universe.

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6 hours ago, UnknownGenius said:

I would drop Sachin and play a real unselfish matchwinner. Playing Sachin and his tuk taking means lower order power of ABd and Dhoni will be wasted.

I'll drop Tendy, ask Kallia to open and bring in another all rounder at 7

 

That way you have solid batting and 6 proper bowlers

 

Genius  :cantstop:

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7 hours ago, Sooda said:

Kallis is not a bad pick ; cant have a side bristling with shot makers an anchor type batsman is useful. Obviously he cant bat at 6. Put him at 3 and push everyone down a slot

 

I think Ponting in, maybe for Lara, Shaun Pollock merits serious consideration too. 

 

 

 

LOL

 

Tendulkar, Lara, Kohli, AB, Dhoni are all long innings players with high average and SR. They are as reliable as Kallis if not more. Just that they can score much faster than Kallis.

 

Shot making and anchoring/consistency are not mutually exclusive.

 

 

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IMO Gilly is a bit over-rated in ODIs. He's a very good player no doubt, but I don't think he is an automatic choice for such kind of XIs. For the Wk-Bat spot in the team Dhoni should be ahead of Gilly. There are plenty of good openers around but very few who can bat great in the late middle order and finish games, which is what Dhoni does.

 

In Tests Gilly is the GOAT.

 

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22 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Where is Brett Lee? No fast bowler has more 5-fers than him in ODIs, no bowler has better SR and average combination than him after taking 350 plus wickets and he played most of his cricket in 2000s and not 90s.  

Agree, although the squad is filled with 11 legends, there is the noticeable absence of a red hot bowler. What Bond & Akhtar achieved over short & medium term, Lee accomplished over the long term.

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12 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sachin is tuk tuk and Kallis isnt. I must have watched cricket in some other universe.

Did you miss the rest where I said Kallis can give you 8-10 overs and allows you to play an extra all rounder. Kallis is also a much better fielder than Sachin. Hardly drops anything and Tendy being 5 feet nothing is not a run saver. Any leading edge will go over his head.

 

Gilchrist

Kallis

Kohli

Lara

AbD

MSD

Any all rounder - Pollock or maybe Flintoff or Watson

Akram

Warne

McGrath

Murali

 

Much much better team.Dropping Sachin allows rest of team to bat in their preferred positions plus gives you 6 genuine bowlers.

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7 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

Did you miss the rest where I said Kallis can give you 8-10 overs and allows you to play an extra all rounder. Kallis is also a much better fielder than Sachin. Hardly drops anything and Tendy being 5 feet nothing is not a run saver. Any leading edge will go over his head.

 

Gilchrist

Kallis

Kohli

Lara

AbD

MSD

Any all rounder - Pollock or maybe Flintoff or Watson

Akram

Warne

McGrath

Murali

 

Much much better team.Dropping Sachin allows rest of team to bat in their preferred positions plus gives you 6 genuine bowlers.

 

So, you want to drop arguably the best ODI opener/batsman of all time !

 

You want to pick a player with a SR of 72 and bat him at the top out of his position because he is a 6th bowling option !

 

If you really want to pick Kallis for whatever reason, why not drop Gilly or Lara who are clearly inferior ODI batsmen to Tendulkar ... that way Kallis can tuk tuk in the MO where he batted all his life and Tendulkar can open ('preferred positions' and all).

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18 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

Did you miss the rest where I said Kallis can give you 8-10 overs and allows you to play an extra all rounder. Kallis is also a much better fielder than Sachin. Hardly drops anything and Tendy being 5 feet nothing is not a run saver. Any leading edge will go over his head.

 

Gilchrist

Kallis

Kohli

Lara

AbD

MSD

Any all rounder - Pollock or maybe Flintoff or Watson

Akram

Warne

McGrath

Murali

 

Much much better team.Dropping Sachin allows rest of team to bat in their preferred positions plus gives you 6 genuine bowlers.

 

Why do you need 8-10 overs from Kallis ?

 

Pollock of Flintoff are fontline bowlers who give 10 overs .. Kallis doesn't really have to bowl much

 

Watson is an opener ... at #7 he would be batting out of his 'preferred position'.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

Did you miss the rest where I said Kallis can give you 8-10 overs and allows you to play an extra all rounder. Kallis is also a much better fielder than Sachin. Hardly drops anything and Tendy being 5 feet nothing is not a run saver. Any leading edge will go over his head.

 

Gilchrist

Kallis

Kohli

Lara

AbD

MSD

Any all rounder - Pollock or maybe Flintoff or Watson

Akram

Warne

McGrath

Murali

 

Much much better team.Dropping Sachin allows rest of team to bat in their preferred positions plus gives you 6 genuine bowlers.

With an ODI SR of 72, i do not think Kallis is good enough to make any ODI XI despite his useful bowling.  He cannot make use of PP. He will slow down the score in middle, forget about slog overs. With this kind of ODI batting he cannot bat in top 7, but was his bowling that good that he could play in bottom 4 as a bowler who could bat in an ODI team.  i do not think it was.  

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17 hours ago, UnknownGenius said:

I would drop Sachin and play a real unselfish matchwinner. Playing Sachin and his tuk taking means lower order power of ABd and Dhoni will be wasted.

I'll drop Tendy, ask Kallia to open and bring in another all rounder at 7

 

That way you have solid batting and 6 proper bowlers

I agree... Dropping sachin will improve the chances of winning automatically. 

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10 hours ago, philcric said:

IMO Gilly is a bit over-rated in ODIs. He's a very good player no doubt, but I don't think he is an automatic choice for such kind of XIs. For the Wk-Bat spot in the team Dhoni should be ahead of Gilly. There are plenty of good openers around but very few who can bat great in the late middle order and finish games, which is what Dhoni does.

 

In Tests Gilly is the GOAT.

 

Gilly averaged 36 with SR 97 in that era when Sanath had a combo of 32-91. Also Gilly played less in SC/UAE where average scores were generally higher..you'll be surprised to see the SR of Hayden/Ponting, supposedly aggressive batsmen. One of the greatest match winners in ODIs IMO, also a big match player. 3 WC finals, 2 50s and a 149. If anything he is under rated in my book. As great as Dhoni is he can't play the kind of bowling Gilly played day in and day out. 

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On 6/18/2018 at 3:22 PM, Lala said:

Klusner?? :cantstop: Seriously? :cantstop: How many matches has he played? If you are saying Klusner is suitable I can say Afridi is 10 times more suitable than trundler klusner for no 6 spot as a pinch hitter + wicket taker (pure all rounder) :cantstop:

Klusener played 171 games , scored 26.1 runs per innings compared to Afridi's 21.85. Took 192 wickets in 164 innings he bowled with better strike rate, better wicket per innings and better average than Afridi.

Edited by Anoop K
Mistake

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17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Gilly averaged 36 with SR 97 in that era when Sanath had a combo of 32-91. Also Gilly played less in SC/UAE where average scores were generally higher..you'll be surprised to see the SR of Hayden/Ponting, supposedly aggressive batsmen. One of the greatest match winners in ODIs IMO, also a big match player. 3 WC finals, 2 50s and a 149. If anything he is under rated in my book. As great as Dhoni is he can't play the kind of bowling Gilly played day in and day out. 

how? australia had the best bowling and no other country apart from SA had a good new ball attack.

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10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Gilly averaged 36 with SR 97 in that era when Sanath had a combo of 32-91. Also Gilly played less in SC/UAE where average scores were generally higher..you'll be surprised to see the SR of Hayden/Ponting, supposedly aggressive batsmen. One of the greatest match winners in ODIs IMO, also a big match player. 3 WC finals, 2 50s and a 149. If anything he is under rated in my book. As great as Dhoni is he can't play the kind of bowling Gilly played day in and day out. 

 

Fair points. No problem with either of them in the team, it comes down to individual preference IMO, and my preference is Jayasuriya.

 

It should not be held against Gilly but he played under less pressure compared to the likes of Jayasuriya, Tendulkar etc. ... Aus was just unstoppable during his time winning everything in sight.

 

Jayasuriya started very young (around 1989) and in the first 90 games or so, he played as a bowling all-rounder. His batting average was less than 20 in those games. Only around 95-96 he came into his own as a batsman. So, the 300+ games after that (Gilly played 287 games), his average and SR are comparable to Gilly. And of course he has the added advantage with his bowling and fielding.

 

Gilly vs Dhoni .... Dhoni easily .... great late middle order batsmen who can finish games reliably are premium commodity ... opening the batting with a strong line up to follow is a relatively easy job.

 

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24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how? australia had the best bowling and no other country apart from SA had a good new ball attack.

Pakistan's attack with Wasim, saqlain, akhtar was good too. Remember pakistan won Odi series against australia in australia , that was a great achievement.

Edited by Anoop K

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15 hours ago, rkt.india said:

how? australia had the best bowling and no other country apart from SA had a good new ball attack.

In his career he faced these quicks upfront

 

SA: Donald, Pollock, Ntini

Pak: Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, young Razzaq (under rated)

NZ: Bond, Cairns (not great but Southee level)

India: Srinath, Zak, Agarkar...I am serious about Sir Aggy :p:, a good strike bowler in ODI cricket

Lanka: Vaas, Malinga

WI: Ambrose, Walsh, Dillon (under rated)

Eng: Gough (very under rated), Flintoff, Anderson

Zim: Streak

 

Pretty good bowlers, don't ya think?

Edited by Gollum

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14 hours ago, philcric said:

 

LOL

 

Tendulkar, Lara, Kohli, AB, Dhoni are all long innings players with high average and SR. They are as reliable as Kallis if not more. Just that they can score much faster than Kallis.

 

Shot making and anchoring/consistency are not mutually exclusive.

 

 

Anchoring to me does not mean just long innings ; it's accumulation at one end whilst shot makers can do their thing at the other. This day and age though every team needs to be chock full of hammerers

Edited by Sooda

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7 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Anchoring to me does not mean just long innings ; it's accumulation at one end whilst shot makers can do their thing at the other. This day and age though every team needs to be chock full of hammerers

 

:confused:

 

Does accumulation of runs has to be necessarily slow ?

 

Kallis consumes plenty of deliveries and accumulates runs consistently and reliably. The likes of Tendulkar, Kohli, Dhoni do the same. At 25% faster rate. How can Kallis be more useful than them in any context?

 

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8 hours ago, Gollum said:

In his career he faced these quicks upfront

 

SA: Donald, Pollock, Ntini

Pak: Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, young Razzaq (under rated)

NZ: Bond, Cairns (not great but Southee level)

India: Srinath, Zak, Agarkar...I am serious about Sir Aggy :p:, a good strike bowler in ODI cricket

Lanka: Vaas, Malinga

WI: Ambrose, Walsh, Dillon (under rated)

Eng: Gough (very under rated), Flintoff, Anderson

 

Pretty good bowlers, don't ya think?

Wasim, waqar, walsh, Ambrose, donald all four were at the fag end of their career and had lost Pace too.  Bond, akhtar, pollack, ntini, malinga are only bowlers of credentials in ODIs.

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13 hours ago, Anoop K said:

Klusener played 171 games , scored 26.1 runs per innings compared to Afridi's 21.85. Took 192 wickets in 164 innings he bowled with better strike rate, better wicket per innings and better average than Afridi.

Pinch hitters needs strike rate than average and Afridi had. He got 395 wickets man.More runs and sixers. Played more matches that shows fitness level.  Experience campaigner. Finally Afridi is more famous than trundler Klusner.:cantstop:

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4 hours ago, gattaca said:

@GollumDhoni tonked akthar, Asif and Sami for fun. Dhoni was great in his young days fearless batting. India won in Australia as well. Sometimes YouTube helps.

Dhoni tonked them on flat SC pitches. He was not that special in SA, Aus and Eng. India won in Australia but what was Dhoni's contribution? Never said he wasn't great, I rate him as the 2nd greatest behind Gilly.

Edited by Gollum

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1 hour ago, Lala said:

Pinch hitters needs strike rate than average and Afridi had. He got 395 wickets man.More runs and sixers. Played more matches that shows fitness level.  Experience campaigner. Finally Afridi is more famous than trundler Klusner.:cantstop:

 

Depends on the team combination too.

 

If the team has 3 pacers plus one of Warne/Murali, Afridi is a good option as the 2nd spinner and 7th batter.

 

If the team has both Warne and Murali, then it has to be a  pace bowling all-rounder like Klusener/Flintoff/Watson.

 

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4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Wasim, waqar, walsh, Ambrose, donald all four were at the fag end of their career and had lost Pace too.  Bond, akhtar, pollack, ntini, malinga are only bowlers of credentials in ODIs.

Ws, Donald, WI bowlers etc were still there in Gilly's 1st 5-7 years of cricket (he debuted in 1996). They were still deadly, don't tell me Wasim or Donald weren't stiff challenges for rookie openers in 1996-2001 period. And they were such elite ATGs that even at their fag ends they were legitimate threats to top order batsmen. It is like saying Mcgrath was no longer a threat in 2005-07 because fag end....which is a ludicrous proposition. I named around 15 bowlers in that list, how come you have narrowed it down to 5....what credentials did the likes of Vaas, Zak, Gough, Srinath, Flintoff lack? There is no doubt the level of challenge for batsmen in ODI cricket has drastically come down. Tomorrow when 550 is a par score and a new keeper averages 80 @150 I won't place him above Dhoni, simply based on statsguru. 

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18 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Dhoni tonked them on flat SC pitches. He was not that special in SA, Aus and Eng. India won in Australia but what was Dhoni's contribution? Never said he wasn't great, I rate him as the 2nd greatest behind Gilly.

and where did Gilchrist tonk them? At home or conditions similar to home. What is his record in India? 

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