Centre drops Tamil, 16 other languages from teacher test

[Gollum]

@randomGuy I assume people most opposed to Hindi are Tamils, Mallus and N.E folk (except maybe Assam). Now find me an era in our history (before British rule) where these regions were part of the same empire as Gangetic belt. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh...even parts of Myanmar, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran (unsure) have been under the same umbrella as regions which are geographically part of North India today. Now take a route through Indian history and find an equivalent with those regions bitterly opposed to Hindi today.

 

Ancient- Nandas, Mauryas, Kushanas, Guptas, Harsha.....

Medieval- Delhi Sultanate, Mughals

 

In ancient and medieval times there have been a few overlaps with parts of Telugu land and Kannada land but Kerala, Tamil Nadu...I doubt. Need help of our resident history expert @Muloghonto on this one. Manipur, Nagaland, Arunachal etc toh are out of the picture. 

 

Only under British rule did the entire SC come together as one unit and as I recall English was their language, it was English which was the common factor when all of us became one whole for the 1st time ever.  

Edited June 25, 2018 by Gollum

[G_B_]

On 6/19/2018 at 4:55 AM, cowboysfan said:

please.BJP would love nothing better than to turn karnataka into another UP with their perverted views on EVERYTHING.

yes cause kumarasamy is the answer to karnataka's problems.

 

PS Several RSS heads have hailed from northern karnataka who vouched for hindi. The northern regions of Karnataka and Telangana share similar cultural values with Maharashtra than the south. Prime Minister Rao for eg spoke fluent Marathi. Draw a 500km circle around Nagpur. Hindi is an important link language between several languages from Marathi to Telegu.

 

 

 

[nikred]

Don't underestimate an average Bong's love for his/her language, one of the main reasons Pakistan was split into 2 was because the racist West Pakistanis tried to downplay Bengali language. You won't find a single Bengali in the world who will ever prefer Hindi over his/her mother tongue..they only speak it because there is a huge Bihari population in the state, besides it is easy to pick up because of similarity.
 
In my entire life I am yet to come across a Malayali who understands Hindi...have many Tamil friends who speak Hindi (all Brahmins, wonder why?) but never a Mallu. Even in interior Andhra (basically outside big cities like Hyderabad, Vizag, Warrangal) no one understands Hindi or even bothers about the language.
 
Why should Tamils look at others for inspiration, for what exactly? Main reason they are extremely vocal about their language is because Tamil is the oldest spoken language in the world. Had Sanskrit not been a dead language today many across India would have fanatically defended it over Hindi, even Hindi speaking folk. Just because Sanskrit hasn't survived doesn't mean one should start getting jealous of the mighty Tamil language...not talking about you but many Hindutvawadis are scared * about recent developments which may throw more light on the Sangam era (eg recent Keezhadi excavation) and shatter many myths floated by them. 
 
From where did you arrive at the 95% figure or do you not consider Tamils, Mallus, many other Southies, North East folk as Indians? I have spent a couple of  years in a place called Keonjhar in Odisha and believe me it was almost impossible to survive with Hindi skills, you have to know their local language. Your claim is highly exaggerated methinks.
 
If you have a problem with people being vociferous about their culture, why do you insist they remain a part of India? Today it is language, tomorrow it will be religion, then ethnicity/race, caste.... forgetting that we are a very diverse country and before British rule we were never really 1 nation (especially North East and South). Wars have been fought and countries split because of language..it hasn't even escaped Spain in the 21st century. We shouldn't expect conformity, instead all Indian citizens should be expected to fulfill their patriotic duty, swear loyalty to the tiranga and be law abiding citizens. Tomorrow if Tamils start an insurgent movement I will oppose them but as long as they believe in democracy, Indian constitution and protest/resist peacefully I have zero issues. Neither would I want GOI to impose codes on Indian citizens vis-a-vis language, food, festivals, religion etc. 

I am yet to come across a mallu who cannot speak hindi. I have come across many tamilians and telugus who can't speak hindi though.

Nizamabad is another place from Telangana where majority seem to know hindi. I have relatives there who can speak marathi too. I know people from Nalgonda who understand hindi but struggle to speak in it.

There is a difference between understanding hindi and speaking hindi. I am sure there are many more people who can understand basic hindi but can't speak it.

I agree, no way 95% Indians can speak hindi. But 95% can understand? I am not sure about that though. I would wage my money and say it might be lesser than that.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[G_B_]

23 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@randomGuy I assume people most opposed to Hindi are Tamils, Mallus and N.E folk (except maybe Assam). Now find me an era in our history (before British rule) where these regions were part of the same empire as Gangetic belt. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh...even parts of Myanmar, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran (unsure) have been under the same umbrella as regions which are geographically part of North India today. Now take a route through Indian history and find an equivalent with those regions bitterly opposed to Hindi today.

 

Ancient- Nandas, Mauryas, Kushanas, Guptas, Harsha.....

Medieval- Delhi Sultanate, Mughals

 

In ancient and medieval times there have been a few overlaps with parts of Telugu land and Kannada land but Kerala, Tamil Nadu...I doubt. Need help of our resident history expert @Muloghonto on this one. Manipur, Nagaland, Arunachal etc toh are out of the picture. 

 

Only under British rule did the entire SC come together as one unit and as I recall English was their language, it was English which was the common factor when all of us became one whole for the 1st time ever.  

you need to google the Thanjavur Maratha kingdom under the banner of the Maratha confederacy. Jinji fort in TN was a maratha capital at a time.

 

Secondly states like Mysore (which contained most of Kerala)  only remained in place cause they actually paid tribute to the confederacy. 

 

In in a jist I think most southern kingdoms paid tribute of some sort or were Maratha royal families linked to the confederacy. 

 

 

[randomGuy]

@Gollum 1. You and I are meeting different mallus I guess... Almost all Mallus (in South, not the migrants to North) I have known speak basic hindi.

 

2. Love for bengali language for bangalis doesn't come in the way of knowing a second language. Bengali and hindi are similar, so they automatically know basic hindi. Southies have to put a bit more effort which most except some stuck up TN folks are already putting. 

 

3. Let's not confuse ourselves with historical rulers of various parts etc. Mallus aren't opposed to hindi as far as I know or at least not nearly as much opposed as tamils. 

 

4. Hindi just happens to be the most widely understood and spoken language in India. Too bad for stuck up tamils  that tamil language doesn't have the numbers. 95% Indians can speak basic hindi. 25%of world speaks basic hindi. Language isn't as much of a big deal either as the stuck up tamils make it out to be. basic hindi being spoken by every indian is an eventuality which these stuck up people will have to accept. 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by randomGuy

[Gollum]

45 minutes ago, nikred said:

 

 

I am yet to come across a mallu who cannot speak hindi. I have come across many tamilians and telugus who can't speak hindi though.

Nizamabad is another place from Telangana where majority seem to know hindi. I have relatives there who can speak marathi too. I know people from Nalgonda who understand hindi but struggle to speak in it.

There is a difference between understanding hindi and speaking hindi. I am sure there are many more people who can understand basic hindi but can't speak it.

I agree, no way 95% Indians can speak hindi. But 95% can understand? I am not sure about that though. I would wage my money and say it might be lesser than that.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
 

As I said I have never met Mallus who speak Hindi and majority don't understand it.... and I have a few Mallu relatives from my cousin's side, so there's enough sample size. Mallus are the most protective about their language, much more than Tamils. In college most Tamils (mostly Brahmins I admit) spoke Hindi and made attempts to include outsiders in conversations/social groups. Mallus kept to themselves and always spoke their mother tongue.

39 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

you need to google the Thanjavur Maratha kingdom under the banner of the Maratha confederacy. Jinji fort in TN was a maratha capital at a time.

 

Secondly states like Mysore (which contained most of Kerala)  only remained in place cause they actually paid tribute to the confederacy. 

 

In in a jist I think most southern kingdoms paid tribute of some sort or were Maratha royal families linked to the confederacy. 

 

 

I don't see how this is linked to the topic at hand because Marathis aren't Northies.

Anyway I won't pretend to be an expert in this matter but a few questions need to be answered to ascertain the relevance of Maratha rule over South vis-a-vis linguistic issues.

1. Did Marathas enforce Marathi culture /language or did they adopt Tamil as their mother tongue? It is possible to be ethnically Marathi yet culturally Tamil eg Rajinikanth.

2. Did Marathas have sphere of influence over entire TN or just a tiny part? This is important because under Khilji/Tughlaq rule a tiny part around Madurai was annexed by them for some time but that reign didn't have a game changing influence on subsequent development/evolution of Tamil culture.

3. Are there descendants of those Marathas in Thanjavur today and what language/culture do they identify with? @velu has mentioned often that there are many Telugus in TN who are very passionate about Tamil.

4. This needs to be answered by Tamil posters here: what language do most Tamil Muslims converse in? I have seen Mallu Muslims converse in Malayalam (not Urdu) but never met a Tamil Muslim all my life. This will throw more light on the psyche of Tamils...if indeed people across ethnicities, religions and backgrounds use only Tamil there is something we are missing. I really admire the devotion of Tamil people to their language, the same way I admire Bangladeshis for putting Bangla on such a high pedestal.

 

30 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

@Gollum 1. You and I are meeting different mallus I guess... Almost all Mallus (in South, not the migrants to North) I have known speak basic hindi.

 

2. Love for bengali language for bangalis doesn't come in the way of knowing a second language. Bengali and hindi are similar, so they automatically know basic hindi. Southies have to put a bit more effort which most except some stuck up TN folks are already putting. 

 

3. Let's not confuse ourselves with historical rulers of various parts etc. Mallus aren't opposed to hindi as far as I know or at least not nearly as much opposed as tamils. 

 

4. Hindi just happens to be the most widely understood and spoken language in India. Too bad for stuck up tamils  that tamil language doesn't have the numbers. 95% Indians can speak basic hindi. 25%of world speaks basic hindi. Language isn't as much of a big deal either as the stuck up tamils make it out to be. basic hindi being spoken by every indian is an eventuality which these stuck up people will have to accept. 

 

1 and 3. Yes it seems we are meeting different Mallus. BTW I don't even remember seeing Mallu public figures speak in Hindi. There are so many Tamils in Bollywood (max from South India I'd wager) and even Tamil politicians like Mani Shankar Aiyer, Nirmala Sitharaman, Jayanti Natrajan, Chidambaram etc who are fluent or at least acceptable while speaking Hindi. Same with the likes of Aswhin, Srikanth, Dinesh Karthik etc. OTOH haven't really seen Mallu public figures speak that often in Hindi.

 

2. Why should Southies put any effort in learning Hindi? If they don't does it make them any less Indian? Why this over riding ambition to impose conformity and force others to toe the line decided by a certain group? Most Tamils may not know Hindi but that hasn't stopped them from doing well for themselves and contributing to India's progress.

 

4.  There are so many crows in India, pretty sure 95% of India has presence of these creatures. OTOH peacock is so rare, never seen one in the wild. So here's an idea let us make crow our national bird in place of peacock because most Indians are familiar with it. 

[Gollum]

Only solution: promote every single regional language equally and declare English as national language. We have seen the advantage of English on this forum itself where posters from different backgrounds put forth their views. English is a colonial legacy, luckily it has great relevance in today's world and provides equal footing to all Indians...let all of us move towards adopting this gift bestowed upon us by the British overlords.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Gollum

[randomGuy]

@Gollum 

1. S. Sreesanth, Asin on top of my mind right now.

 

2. Find it hard to learn, find it boring to learn, fine don't learn. But don't discourage others to learn. 'No hindi in TN' - don't enforce such thoughts. Don't purposefully make it difficult for hindi speakers in TN.

 

Beyond that, it's a matter of one's own thought process - if I were tamil, I would definitely try to learn hindi even if I found it hard. Because 95% of India understands it. And I want to connect with them in the language that majority are most comfortable in. You personally don't want to learn then don't learn. There is no enforcement. 

 

4. That is a joke of an argument. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by randomGuy

[Gollum]

@randomGuy India needs to be united on the basis of her dharmic roots. We were never one political unit before the arrival of Brits. But what kept us bound together? It was a combination of dharmic religions, philosophy, temples, monasteries, universities and saints. Great minds traversed the length and breadth of modern day SC and brought people culturally together and even on an intellectual level even though every 400 km either way had a different ruler. That time Bihar was like a foreign country to Tamils, similarly West India was foreign to Bengalis.....they wore different dresses, had different cuisine, temperament, language, customs etc but pilgrimages brought a Tanjore guy to Banaras, likewise from Mathura to Madurai, Nabadwip to Prayag, Gaya to Ajanta/Ellora and from Puri to Kedarnath. We need to stop fighting over caste, language, diet, customs etc and unite all dharmic people under one banner. Else we are doing a great disservice to our origins. Buddha, Mahavir, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Adi Sankara, Basavanna, Andal, Dayanand Saraswati, Kabir, Mirabai, Ramanuja, Guru Nanak, Ramdas, Surdas, Tulsidas, Tukaram etc all spoke different languages in various timelines in our history but united us people in ways no language can ever hope to achieve.

[randomGuy]

Please point where am I fighting? I am for your right of not wanting to learn hindi. It's your decision. Read the post over your post. 

[Gollum]

28 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

@Gollum 

1. S. Sreesanth, Asin on top of my mind right now.

 

2. Find it hard to learn, find it boring to learn, fine don't learn. But don't discourage others to learn. 'No hindi in TN' - don't enforce such thoughts. Don't purposefully make it difficult for hindi speakers in TN.

 

Beyond that, it's a matter of one's own thought process - if I were tamil, I would definitely try to learn hindi even if I found it hard. Because 95% of India understands it. And I want to connect with them in the language that majority are most comfortable in. You personally don't want to learn then don't learn. There is no enforcement. 

 

4. That is a joke of an argument. 

1. Only 2? I can name 50 Tamils on the spot. Check Bollywood itself, wahin se 20-30 mil jayenge.

 

2. If Centre takes a backseat Tamils will themselves learn Hindi if they feel it will benefit them. Delhi isn't helping here with its over emphasis on Hindi....allow things to spontaneously develop over a period of time. I feel Tamils are feeling insecure/under siege now and some of their political/social leaders are getting mileage out of anti Hindi demonstrations/comments. Ordinary Tamils have enough intelligence to do what is beneficial for them..if they feel like learning let them learn else leave it to their wisdom. I think English too will be useful because majority at least will understand it and it is more versatile with global appeal. Regarding treatment of Hindi speakers in TN if things are bad I hope they improve. Again Tamil posters here can shed more light in this regard. 

 

4. That was tongue in cheek in response to a patronizing if somewhat arrogant point. You can't call people 'stuck up' just because they disagree vehemently with you...you have to put yourself in their shoes to understand how they feel. Imagine you are from a state where ancient Sanskrit has survived and has 8 crore speakers, if GOI gives a Hindi push won't you feel bad? Tamils have emotional attachment with their language, more than people from other states and we must respect their feelings. Pretty sure even they will have similar thoughts (stuck up ) w.r.t many of the mannerisms of folk from rest of India.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Gollum

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Only solution: promote every single regional language equally and declare English as national language. We have seen the advantage of English on this forum itself where posters from different backgrounds put forth their views. English is a colonial legacy, luckily it has great relevance in today's world and provides equal footing to all Indians...let all of us move towards adopting this gift bestowed upon us by the British overlords.

Why not have Hindi instead of English as the second language? 

This hatred for Hindi seems fairly illogical to me. Sure promote the regional languages but what's harm in using Hindi as the second language. 

Why does everyone seem to get their lungis in twist everytime someone even mention a word about Hindi? 

I find the attitude highly despicable and reeking of hypocrisy.

[Stradlater]

45 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@randomGuy India needs to be united on the basis of her dharmic roots. We were never one political unit before the arrival of Brits. But what kept us bound together? It was a combination of dharmic religions, philosophy, temples, monasteries, universities and saints. Great minds traversed the length and breadth of modern day SC and brought people culturally together and even on an intellectual level even though every 400 km either way had a different ruler. That time Bihar was like a foreign country to Tamils, similarly West India was foreign to Bengalis.....they wore different dresses, had different cuisine, temperament, language, customs etc but pilgrimages brought a Tanjore guy to Banaras, likewise from Mathura to Madurai, Nabadwip to Prayag, Gaya to Ajanta/Ellora and from Puri to Kedarnath. We need to stop fighting over caste, language, diet, customs etc and unite all dharmic people under one banner. Else we are doing a great disservice to our origins. Buddha, Mahavir, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Adi Sankara, Basavanna, Andal, Dayanand Saraswati, Kabir, Mirabai, Ramanuja, Guru Nanak, Ramdas, Surdas, Tulsidas, Tukaram etc all spoke different languages in various timelines in our history but united us people in ways no language can ever hope to achieve.

I'm sorry but the first line of your post is completely incorrect and is often used by Pakistanis to undermine India.

 

I suggest you read up a bit more on Indian history.

[randomGuy]

27 minutes ago, Gollum said:

1. Only 2? I can name 50 Tamils on the spot. Check Bollywood itself, wahin se 20-30 mil jayenge.

 

2. If Centre takes a backseat Tamils will themselves learn Hindi if they feel it will benefit them. Delhi isn't helping here with its over emphasis on Hindi....allow things to spontaneously develop over a period of time. I feel Tamils are feeling insecure/under siege now and some of their political/social leaders are getting mileage out of anti Hindi demonstrations/comments. Ordinary Tamils have enough intelligence to do what is beneficial for them..if they feel like learning let them learn else leave it to their wisdom. I think English too will be useful because majority at least will understand it and it is more versatile with global appeal. Regarding treatment of Hindi speakers in TN if things are bad I hope they improve. Again Tamil posters here can shed more light in this regard. 

 

4. That was tongue in cheek in response to a patronizing if somewhat arrogant point. You can't call people 'stuck up' just because they disagree vehemently with you...you have to put yourself in their shoes to understand how they feel. Imagine you are from a state where ancient Sanskrit has survived and has 8 crore speakers, if GOI gives a Hindi push won't you feel bad? Tamils have emotional attachment with their language, more than people from other states and we must respect their feelings. Pretty sure even they will have similar thoughts (stuck up ) w.r.t many of the mannerisms of folk from rest of India.

1. Yes, only 2. Perhaps fair to say more tamils have tried n succeeded in Bollywood n cricket than keralites relative to population.

 

2.its borne out of a) lack of trust in RoI by TN. b) politics by local parties making it worse, taking it to next level. Please let me know how you feel hindi is tried to be enforced. It's always depends on your choice. Don't learn if you don't want to. 

[Gollum]

23 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Why not have Hindi instead of English as the second language? 

This hatred for Hindi seems fairly illogical to me. Sure promote the regional languages but what's harm in using Hindi as the second language. 

Why does everyone seem to get their lungis in twist everytime someone even mention a word about Hindi? 

I find the attitude highly despicable and reeking of hypocrisy.

Because English will ensure equal footing for all and like it or not in the global arena English still rules the roost. Hindi as 2nd language means people from some states will get undue advantage. Bengalis and Marathis won't find Hindi that tough but imagine the plight of a Mallu, Tamil or Naga. You are from Rajsathan so Hindi is natural for you, but why don't you put yourself in the shoes of others? Pretty sure even you would be up in arms if I suggest Telugu or Gondi as 2nd language? Who is being the hypocrite here? Look at the example of our western neighbour....linguistic chauvinism will get us nowhere. And there's a difference between hating Hindi and being cautious.

20 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

I'm sorry but the first line of your post is completely incorrect and is often used by Pakistanis to undermine India.

 

I suggest you read up a bit more on Indian history.

When did Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Manipur, Nagaland, Mizoram etc share the same empire as rest of India before British rule? I am not claiming to be an expert in history but can't seem to figure out when. The contours of the Indian SC today that we see are all courtesy the British rulers. There are many areas in N.E that don't identify themselves with us and hence we have insurgency there.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Gollum

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

1. Yes, only 2. Perhaps fair to say more tamils have tried n succeeded in Bollywood n cricket than keralites relative to population.

 

2.its borne out of a) lack of trust in RoI by TN. b) politics by local parties making it worse, taking it to next level. Please let me know how you feel hindi is tried to be enforced. It's always depends on your choice. Don't learn if you don't want to. 

Simple example any competitive exam paper will have the Hindi translation of English questions on the adjacent page. Sometimes if the wordings in English are confusing one can check the Hindi translation and get a clearer idea, I can personally vouch for that because I have done that a couple of times. Now a Tamil will be at a disadvantage in such a situation.

[randomGuy]

2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Simple example any competitive exam paper will have the Hindi translation of English questions on the adjacent page. Sometimes if the wordings in English are confusing one can check the Hindi translation and get a clearer idea, I can personally vouch for that because I have done that a couple of times. Now a Tamil will be at a disadvantage in such a situation.

1. When there is difference in English and hindi meanings in question paper, English version is considered final. 

2. Many students study all subjects in hindi medium till 12th class. Hence the Hindi version. 

[Stradlater]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Because English will ensure equal footing for all and like it or not in the global arena English still rules the roost. Also Hindi as 2nd language means people from some states will get undue advantage. Bengalis and Marathis won't find Hindi that tough but imagine the plight of a Mallu, Tamil or Naga. You are from Rajsathan so Hindi is natural for you, but why don't you put yourself in the shoes of others? Pretty sure even you would be up in arms if I suggest Telugu or Gondi as 2nd language? Who is being the hypocrite here? Look at the example of our western neighbour....linguistic chauvinism will get us nowhere. And there's a difference between hating Hindi and being cautious.

 How will English ensure equal footing for all when most North Indian Bemaru state people can barely speak a word of the language? 

And what unfair advantage are you talking about lol? I haven't suggested removing the regional languages out of the equation. Infact I have argued for their preservation and promotion. What I want is to have Hindi as a second language in place of English which seems quite fair imo and also helps extending our cultural influence around the world.

English is a relic of colonial era and ideally should have no place in our society. I'm not calling for an outright ban on the language which would be silly considering it's global importance but why give it an undue importance when we have our very own Indigenous language as a perfect replacement understood by most of the people and which could help us spread our cultural soft power around the world. 

This love for English is both irrational and unreasonable.

Linguistic Chauvinism? Now you are just putting words in my mouth.

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

When did Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Manipur, Nagaland, Mizoram etc share the same empire as rest of India before British rule? I am not claiming to be an expert in history but can't seem to figure out when. The contours of the Indian SC today that we see are all courtesy the British rulers. There are many areas in N.E that don't identify themselves with us and hence we have insurgency there.

Ashoka's empire stretched from Afghanistan in the west to almost whole NE in the east. We did have parts of Tamilnadu and Kerala out of it but that can be safely ignored considering we are talking about a kingdom the size of more than present day Indian Subcontinent.

 

And this argument about NE states not identifying with us is fallacious one since there are different reasons for the insurgency in different states.

Many Kashmiri Muslims do not identity with rest of the Indians either(you would be surprised to hear about the racist tendencies they exhibit towards mainland Indians) but suggesting that Kashmiris historically never had anything in common with Indians would be laughably wrong.

[randomGuy]

1.3 billion india

.21 billion pakistan 

.15 billion Bangladeshi

Let's say 0.09 billion Nepali Afghan n overseas subcontiners

Total = 1.75 billion out of 7 billion = 25% = 1 in every 4 people of this world knows hindi 

 

^and since relatively larger percentage of these are younger, under 30 people, if you project it 10 years hence... 

..... Maybe 1 in every 3 people of the world will know hindi. 

[The Dark Horse]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

 

4. This needs to be answered by Tamil posters here: what language do most Tamil Muslims converse in? I have seen Mallu Muslims converse in Malayalam (not Urdu) but never met a Tamil Muslim all my life. This will throw more light on the psyche of Tamils...if indeed people across ethnicities, religions and backgrounds use only Tamil there is something we are missing. I really admire thws in India, pretty sure 95% of India has presence of these creatures. OTOH peacock is so rare, never seen one in the wild. So here's an idea let us make crow our national bird in place of peacock because most Indians are familiar with it. 

There are both Tamil and Urdu speaking muslims. However, most identify themselves as Tamils rather than Muslims, at least in the current generation.