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The Dark Horse

Centre drops Tamil, 16 other languages from teacher test

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1 minute ago, cowboysfan said:

please.BJP would love nothing better than to turn karnataka into another UP with their perverted views on EVERYTHING.

Bjp has been there in karnataka ... It is there in its neighborhood goa, Maharashtra... Also, Don't be demeaning to UP. 

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2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Bjp has been there in karnataka ... It is there in its neighborhood goa, Maharashtra... Also, Don't be demeaning to UP. 

You can be deaming to Jaats but asking others not to be deaming to UP? Are you a UP walla? I guess your hatred for Jaats is not because of riots in muzzafar nagar? Are you from Ummah brigade? So that phainty is what keeping you in pain till now? 

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31 minutes ago, Jatboy said:

You can be deaming to Jaats but asking others not to be deaming to UP? Are you a UP walla? I guess your hatred for Jaats is not because of riots in muzzafar nagar? Are you from Ummah brigade? So that phainty is what keeping you in pain till now? 

Na bhai.... Born (a Hindu) n brought up in Delhi...didn't understand how people act or even think in terms of caste till very late in life...wish I could invite you to my office to show my relationship with my jat colleagues...i hate caste system. I hate casteist people (a category which majority of haryanavi /delhi jats belong to) specially if they come from stronger/wealthier/'educated' backgrounds...

Edited by randomGuy

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19 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

Correct decision if true

 

Hindi should be the language of whole of India

 

Ofcourse no one wants to erase regional languages but Hindi needs to be atleast spoken as a second language in every state 

You can divide the country into multiple countries and name the piece which speaks Hindi and only Hindi as India.

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23 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

Correct decision if true

 

Hindi should be the language of whole of India

 

Ofcourse no one wants to erase regional languages but Hindi needs to be atleast spoken as a second language in every state 

Why not English?

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20 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

It's a language of oppressors/colonists and obviously not indigenous to India 

It is also the language of the world, of science and technology, of academic literature, of the most prominent modern media entertainment....will be foolish to move away from English when the whole world (including non English speaking regions like East Asia/S.E. Asia/Europe/West Asia) is moving towards it. BTW even car/railways/air travel, computer, banking system, stock market, phone, TV, fridge, AC, washing machine etc are not indigenous to India...should we go back to our olden days?

Edited by Gollum

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2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

*yawn*

Don’t worry. Take your time till you get your next  Jaat hating diarrhea.  Just quote me in your post. I will give you the right dose to minimize your anti Jaat diarrhea effect. 

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1 hour ago, rageaddict said:

It already is the second language in most states,  you deal with  it.  The change is painful but it is inevitable in this case. 

 

 

it wont be spoken in all states man. wont happen. 

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7 hours ago, AmreekanDesi said:

Correct decision if true

 

Hindi should be the language of whole of India

 

Ofcourse no one wants to erase regional languages but Hindi needs to be atleast spoken as a second language in every state 

 

why??   who are you to tell people from other states what they can speak.India is not like other homogeneous  countries.There are multitude  of cultures and languages in every nook of the country.We are already seeing that languages are going extinct in india because of pressure from the regional languages.It  should be up to individuals to decide if they want to learn a second language,the state has no business in imposing it.

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7 hours ago, Jatboy said:

Don’t worry. Take your time till you get your next  Jaat hating diarrhea.  Just quote me in your post. I will give you the right dose to minimize your anti Jaat diarrhea effect. 

There are some good mature peoples as well amongst haryana, delhi jats. But what to do when big majority are bad? My intent was to write what everybody perhaps already knows - the truth on haryana, delhi jats. 

 

If you want to get some respect, try and dissociate from caste...Bye..

Edited by randomGuy

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38 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

There are some good mature peoples as well amongst haryana, delhi jats. But what to do when big majority are bad? My intent was to write what everybody perhaps already knows - the truth on haryana, delhi jats. 

 

If you want to get some respect, try and dissociate from caste...Bye..

Which machine/calculation/ survey is used to find out that majority of Jaats are bad? What defines a community is bad is subjective. Kashmiri Muslims are very soft spoken but you must be loving them for this and must be hating patriotic Jaats because they are bad because of their attitude. Also you must be lickin bengalis who has let millions of their Bangladeshis in their love for Bengali language. Jaats only doe for India and bring medals when your good castes flop at international stage.

 Your verbal diarrhea is throwing $hit now.

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Gollum said:

It is also the language of the world, of science and technology, of academic literature, of the most prominent modern media entertainment....will be foolish to move away from English when the whole world (including non English speaking regions like East Asia/S.E. Asia/Europe/West Asia) is moving towards it. BTW even car/railways/air travel, computer, banking system, stock market, phone, TV, fridge, AC, washing machine etc are not indigenous to India...should we go back to our olden days?

Not saying that everyone should learn Hindi or that we should even have a national language, but this is untrrue

 

None of these fields are dependent on English, otherwise India would be ahead of other countries already.

 

The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Germans, etc all learn and do science/tech in their own languages. Only Indians have some starry eyed view of the English language with the so-called "English-language advantage." The UN itself commissioned a study which showed that people all learn better in their mother tongue.   

 

  

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On 6/20/2018 at 11:09 AM, Moochad said:

The UN itself commissioned a study which showed that people all learn better in their mother tongue.   

This should be one of the reasons then for not implementing Hindi education anywhere outside of BMRU states then

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On 6/20/2018 at 8:39 PM, Moochad said:

Not saying that everyone should learn Hindi or that we should even have a national language, but this is untrrue

 

None of these fields are dependent on English, otherwise India would be ahead of other countries already.

 

The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Germans, etc all learn and do science/tech in their own languages. Only Indians have some starry eyed view of the English language with the so-called "English-language advantage." The UN itself commissioned a study which showed that people all learn better in their mother tongue.   

 

  

Very true.most of the young Indians are "wannabe" of western culture without knowing **** about their culture and our culture. The mindset is like ,if they are doing like this ,even we should follow them ,I mean why?? 

The countries you have quoted are prime examples to follow , respect and preserve your own culture and be proud of it!!

Nothing wrong in learning or speaking English or using it in day to day life but don't worship it 

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9 hours ago, adi B said:

Very true.most of the young Indians are "wannabe" of western culture without knowing **** about their culture and our culture. The mindset is like ,if they are doing like this ,even we should follow them ,I mean why?? 

The countries you have quoted are prime examples to follow , respect and preserve your own culture and be proud of it!!

Nothing wrong in learning or speaking English or using it in day to day life but don't worship it 

You mean to tell that by learning and using Hindi in day to day life a Bong or Tamil or Manipuri will preserve his/her culture? Or do you think these states have no culture and only Gangetic belt culture is real? Remember English is a compromise choice in a highly diverse country, to ensure that all are on equal footing. Unfair, nay absolutely criminal to expect a Mallu to learn Hindi when Hindi belt people refuse to learn other languages. If all Indians spoke Hindi as mother tongue and someone talked about giving higher priority to English, you may have had a point. But that isn't the case here, can't compare us with homogeneous countries like Japan/China/South Korea. 

Edited by Gollum

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10 hours ago, Gollum said:

You mean to tell that by learning and using Hindi in day to day life a Bong or Tamil or Manipuri will preserve his/her culture? Or do you think these states have no culture and only Gangetic belt culture is real? Remember English is a compromise choice in a highly diverse country, to ensure that all are on equal footing. Unfair, nay absolutely criminal to expect a Mallu to learn Hindi when Hindi belt people refuse to learn other languages. If all Indians spoke Hindi as mother tongue and someone talked about giving higher priority to English, you may have had a point. But that isn't the case here, can't compare us with homogeneous countries like Japan/China/South Korea. 

I am not asking the South belt to learn and speak Hindi, neither am I generalizing them .I am just talking about the "wannabes " of the new gen,who consider their mother tongue (be it kannada,Tamil,telugu) to be secondary to English,forget about Hindi!

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3 minutes ago, adi B said:

I am not asking the South belt to learn and speak Hindi, neither am I generalizing them .I am just talking about the "wannabes " of the new gen,who consider their mother tongue (be it kannada,Tamil,telugu) to be secondary to English,forget about Hindi!

OK then it's cool, maybe I misinterpreted your post. I too want all people to follow their mother tongue and native culture (Marathi, Tamil, Assamese.... whatever) sincerely. 

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14 hours ago, Gollum said:

You mean to tell that by learning and using Hindi in day to day life a Bong or Tamil or Manipuri will preserve his/her culture? Or do you think these states have no culture and only Gangetic belt culture is real? Remember English is a compromise choice in a highly diverse country, to ensure that all are on equal footing. Unfair, nay absolutely criminal to expect a Mallu to learn Hindi when Hindi belt people refuse to learn other languages. If all Indians spoke Hindi as mother tongue and someone talked about giving higher priority to English, you may have had a point. But that isn't the case here, can't compare us with homogeneous countries like Japan/China/South Korea. 

Zabardasti Bangal aur TN ko mat jodo. Bangali is similar to hindi and every bangali speaks basic Hindi. 

 

Malayalam, Telugu and Tamil are perhaps equally different from Hindi but Many more malyalis and andhra/telangana folks speak hindi than tamils.... Tamils could perhaps look at them for inspiration. 

 

Tamils are standouts in terms of being the only large group which has substantial opposition to hindi. Other people have also shown displeasure but not as widespread as TN and so Hindi still continues to grow in every state except maybe TN. 

 

In future, every indian will be able to speak basic Hindi(even now ~95%Indians can speak basic Hindi) whether stuck up TN folks like it or not. 

 

Basic Hindi is what people ask for, not advanced hindi. 

 

Edited by randomGuy

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1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

Zabardasti Bangal or TN ko mat jodo. Bangali is similar to hindi and every bangali speaks basic Hindi. 

 

Malayalam, Telugu and Tamil are perhaps equally different from Hindi but Many more malyalis and andhra/telangana folks speak hindi than tamils.... Tamils could perhaps look at them for inspiration. 

 

Tamils are standouts in terms of being the only large group which has substantial opposition to hindi. Other people have also shown displeasure but not as widespread as TN and so Hindi still continues to grow in every state except maybe TN. 

 

In future, every indian will be able to speak basic Hindi(even now ~95%Indians can speak basic Hindi) whether stuck up TN folks like it or not. 

 

Basic Hindi is what people ask for, not advanced hindi. 

 

Don't underestimate an average Bong's love for his/her language, one of the main reasons Pakistan was split into 2 was because the racist West Pakistanis tried to downplay Bengali language. You won't find a single Bengali in the world who will ever prefer Hindi over his/her mother tongue..they only speak it because there is a huge Bihari population in the state, besides it is easy to pick up because of similarity.

 

In my entire life I am yet to come across a Malayali who understands Hindi...have many Tamil friends who speak Hindi (all Brahmins, wonder why?) but never a Mallu. Even in interior Andhra (basically outside big cities like Hyderabad, Vizag, Warrangal) no one understands Hindi or even bothers about the language.

 

Why should Tamils look at others for inspiration, for what exactly? Main reason they are extremely vocal about their language is because Tamil is the oldest spoken language in the world. Had Sanskrit not been a dead language today many across India would have fanatically defended it over Hindi, even Hindi speaking folk. Just because Sanskrit hasn't survived doesn't mean one should start getting jealous of the mighty Tamil language...not talking about you but many Hindutvawadis are scared * about recent developments which may throw more light on the Sangam era (eg recent Keezhadi excavation) and shatter many myths floated by them. 

 

From where did you arrive at the 95% figure or do you not consider Tamils, Mallus, many other Southies, North East folk as Indians? I have spent a couple of  years in a place called Keonjhar in Odisha and believe me it was almost impossible to survive with Hindi skills, you have to know their local language. Your claim is highly exaggerated methinks.

 

If you have a problem with people being vociferous about their culture, why do you insist they remain a part of India? Today it is language, tomorrow it will be religion, then ethnicity/race, caste.... forgetting that we are a very diverse country and before British rule we were never really 1 nation (especially North East and South). Wars have been fought and countries split because of language..it hasn't even escaped Spain in the 21st century. We shouldn't expect conformity, instead all Indian citizens should be expected to fulfill their patriotic duty, swear loyalty to the tiranga and be law abiding citizens. Tomorrow if Tamils start an insurgent movement I will oppose them but as long as they believe in democracy, Indian constitution and protest/resist peacefully I have zero issues. Neither would I want GOI to impose codes on Indian citizens vis-a-vis language, food, festivals, religion etc. 

Edited by Gollum

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@randomGuy I assume people most opposed to Hindi are Tamils, Mallus and N.E folk (except maybe Assam). Now find me an era in our history (before British rule) where these regions were part of the same empire as Gangetic belt. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh...even parts of Myanmar, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran (unsure) have been under the same umbrella as regions which are geographically part of North India today. Now take a route through Indian history and find an equivalent with those regions bitterly opposed to Hindi today.

 

Ancient- Nandas, Mauryas, Kushanas, Guptas, Harsha.....

Medieval- Delhi Sultanate, Mughals

 

In ancient and medieval times there have been a few overlaps with parts of Telugu land and Kannada land but Kerala, Tamil Nadu...I doubt. Need help of our resident history expert @Muloghonto on this one. Manipur, Nagaland, Arunachal etc toh are out of the picture. 

 

Only under British rule did the entire SC come together as one unit and as I recall English was their language, it was English which was the common factor when all of us became one whole for the 1st time ever.  

Edited by Gollum

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On 6/19/2018 at 4:55 AM, cowboysfan said:

please.BJP would love nothing better than to turn karnataka into another UP with their perverted views on EVERYTHING.

yes cause kumarasamy is the answer to karnataka's problems.

 

PS Several RSS heads have hailed from northern karnataka who vouched for hindi. The northern regions of Karnataka and Telangana share similar cultural values with Maharashtra than the south. Prime Minister Rao for eg spoke fluent Marathi. Draw a 500km circle around Nagpur. Hindi is an important link language between several languages from Marathi to Telegu.

 

 

 

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Don't underestimate an average Bong's love for his/her language, one of the main reasons Pakistan was split into 2 was because the racist West Pakistanis tried to downplay Bengali language. You won't find a single Bengali in the world who will ever prefer Hindi over his/her mother tongue..they only speak it because there is a huge Bihari population in the state, besides it is easy to pick up because of similarity.
 
In my entire life I am yet to come across a Malayali who understands Hindi...have many Tamil friends who speak Hindi (all Brahmins, wonder why?) but never a Mallu. Even in interior Andhra (basically outside big cities like Hyderabad, Vizag, Warrangal) no one understands Hindi or even bothers about the language.
 
Why should Tamils look at others for inspiration, for what exactly? Main reason they are extremely vocal about their language is because Tamil is the oldest spoken language in the world. Had Sanskrit not been a dead language today many across India would have fanatically defended it over Hindi, even Hindi speaking folk. Just because Sanskrit hasn't survived doesn't mean one should start getting jealous of the mighty Tamil language...not talking about you but many Hindutvawadis are scared * about recent developments which may throw more light on the Sangam era (eg recent Keezhadi excavation) and shatter many myths floated by them. 
 
From where did you arrive at the 95% figure or do you not consider Tamils, Mallus, many other Southies, North East folk as Indians? I have spent a couple of  years in a place called Keonjhar in Odisha and believe me it was almost impossible to survive with Hindi skills, you have to know their local language. Your claim is highly exaggerated methinks.
 
If you have a problem with people being vociferous about their culture, why do you insist they remain a part of India? Today it is language, tomorrow it will be religion, then ethnicity/race, caste.... forgetting that we are a very diverse country and before British rule we were never really 1 nation (especially North East and South). Wars have been fought and countries split because of language..it hasn't even escaped Spain in the 21st century. We shouldn't expect conformity, instead all Indian citizens should be expected to fulfill their patriotic duty, swear loyalty to the tiranga and be law abiding citizens. Tomorrow if Tamils start an insurgent movement I will oppose them but as long as they believe in democracy, Indian constitution and protest/resist peacefully I have zero issues. Neither would I want GOI to impose codes on Indian citizens vis-a-vis language, food, festivals, religion etc. 


I am yet to come across a mallu who cannot speak hindi. I have come across many tamilians and telugus who can't speak hindi though.

Nizamabad is another place from Telangana where majority seem to know hindi. I have relatives there who can speak marathi too. I know people from Nalgonda who understand hindi but struggle to speak in it.

There is a difference between understanding hindi and speaking hindi. I am sure there are many more people who can understand basic hindi but can't speak it.

I agree, no way 95% Indians can speak hindi. But 95% can understand? I am not sure about that though. I would wage my money and say it might be lesser than that.

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23 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@randomGuy I assume people most opposed to Hindi are Tamils, Mallus and N.E folk (except maybe Assam). Now find me an era in our history (before British rule) where these regions were part of the same empire as Gangetic belt. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh...even parts of Myanmar, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran (unsure) have been under the same umbrella as regions which are geographically part of North India today. Now take a route through Indian history and find an equivalent with those regions bitterly opposed to Hindi today.

 

Ancient- Nandas, Mauryas, Kushanas, Guptas, Harsha.....

Medieval- Delhi Sultanate, Mughals

 

In ancient and medieval times there have been a few overlaps with parts of Telugu land and Kannada land but Kerala, Tamil Nadu...I doubt. Need help of our resident history expert @Muloghonto on this one. Manipur, Nagaland, Arunachal etc toh are out of the picture. 

 

Only under British rule did the entire SC come together as one unit and as I recall English was their language, it was English which was the common factor when all of us became one whole for the 1st time ever.  

you need to google the Thanjavur Maratha kingdom under the banner of the Maratha confederacy. Jinji fort in TN was a maratha capital at a time.

 

Secondly states like Mysore (which contained most of Kerala)  only remained in place cause they actually paid tribute to the confederacy. 

 

In in a jist I think most southern kingdoms paid tribute of some sort or were Maratha royal families linked to the confederacy. 

 

 

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@Gollum 1. You and I are meeting different mallus I guess... Almost all Mallus (in South, not the migrants to North) I have known speak basic hindi.

 

2. Love for bengali language for bangalis doesn't come in the way of knowing a second language. Bengali and hindi are similar, so they automatically know basic hindi. Southies have to put a bit more effort which most except some stuck up TN folks are already putting. 

 

3. Let's not confuse ourselves with historical rulers of various parts etc. Mallus aren't opposed to hindi as far as I know or at least not nearly as much opposed as tamils. 

 

4. Hindi just happens to be the most widely understood and spoken language in India. Too bad for stuck up tamils  that tamil language doesn't have the numbers. 95% Indians can speak basic hindi. 25%of world speaks basic hindi. Language isn't as much of a big deal either as the stuck up tamils make it out to be. basic hindi being spoken by every indian is an eventuality which these stuck up people will have to accept. 

 

Edited by randomGuy

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45 minutes ago, nikred said:


 

 


I am yet to come across a mallu who cannot speak hindi. I have come across many tamilians and telugus who can't speak hindi though.

Nizamabad is another place from Telangana where majority seem to know hindi. I have relatives there who can speak marathi too. I know people from Nalgonda who understand hindi but struggle to speak in it.

There is a difference between understanding hindi and speaking hindi. I am sure there are many more people who can understand basic hindi but can't speak it.

I agree, no way 95% Indians can speak hindi. But 95% can understand? I am not sure about that though. I would wage my money and say it might be lesser than that.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
 

As I said I have never met Mallus who speak Hindi and majority don't understand it.... and I have a few Mallu relatives from my cousin's side, so there's enough sample size. Mallus are the most protective about their language, much more than Tamils. In college most Tamils (mostly Brahmins I admit) spoke Hindi and made attempts to include outsiders in conversations/social groups. Mallus kept to themselves and always spoke their mother tongue.

39 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

you need to google the Thanjavur Maratha kingdom under the banner of the Maratha confederacy. Jinji fort in TN was a maratha capital at a time.

 

Secondly states like Mysore (which contained most of Kerala)  only remained in place cause they actually paid tribute to the confederacy. 

 

In in a jist I think most southern kingdoms paid tribute of some sort or were Maratha royal families linked to the confederacy. 

 

 

I don't see how this is linked to the topic at hand because Marathis aren't Northies.

Anyway I won't pretend to be an expert in this matter but a few questions need to be answered to ascertain the relevance of Maratha rule over South vis-a-vis linguistic issues.

1. Did Marathas enforce Marathi culture /language or did they adopt Tamil as their mother tongue? It is possible to be ethnically Marathi yet culturally Tamil eg Rajinikanth.

2. Did Marathas have sphere of influence over entire TN or just a tiny part? This is important because under Khilji/Tughlaq rule a tiny part around Madurai was annexed by them for some time but that reign didn't have a game changing influence on subsequent development/evolution of Tamil culture.

3. Are there descendants of those Marathas in Thanjavur today and what language/culture do they identify with? @velu has mentioned often that there are many Telugus in TN who are very passionate about Tamil.

4. This needs to be answered by Tamil posters here: what language do most Tamil Muslims converse in? I have seen Mallu Muslims converse in Malayalam (not Urdu) but never met a Tamil Muslim all my life. This will throw more light on the psyche of Tamils...if indeed people across ethnicities, religions and backgrounds use only Tamil there is something we are missing. I really admire the devotion of Tamil people to their language, the same way I admire Bangladeshis for putting Bangla on such a high pedestal.

 

30 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

@Gollum 1. You and I are meeting different mallus I guess... Almost all Mallus (in South, not the migrants to North) I have known speak basic hindi.

 

2. Love for bengali language for bangalis doesn't come in the way of knowing a second language. Bengali and hindi are similar, so they automatically know basic hindi. Southies have to put a bit more effort which most except some stuck up TN folks are already putting. 

 

3. Let's not confuse ourselves with historical rulers of various parts etc. Mallus aren't opposed to hindi as far as I know or at least not nearly as much opposed as tamils. 

 

4. Hindi just happens to be the most widely understood and spoken language in India. Too bad for stuck up tamils  that tamil language doesn't have the numbers. 95% Indians can speak basic hindi. 25%of world speaks basic hindi. Language isn't as much of a big deal either as the stuck up tamils make it out to be. basic hindi being spoken by every indian is an eventuality which these stuck up people will have to accept. 

 

1 and 3. Yes it seems we are meeting different Mallus. BTW I don't even remember seeing Mallu public figures speak in Hindi. There are so many Tamils in Bollywood (max from South India I'd wager) and even Tamil politicians like Mani Shankar Aiyer, Nirmala Sitharaman, Jayanti Natrajan, Chidambaram etc who are fluent or at least acceptable while speaking Hindi. Same with the likes of Aswhin, Srikanth, Dinesh Karthik etc. OTOH haven't really seen Mallu public figures speak that often in Hindi.

 

2. Why should Southies put any effort in learning Hindi? If they don't does it make them any less Indian? Why this over riding ambition to impose conformity and force others to toe the line decided by a certain group? Most Tamils may not know Hindi but that hasn't stopped them from doing well for themselves and contributing to India's progress.

 

4.  There are so many crows in India, pretty sure 95% of India has presence of these creatures. OTOH peacock is so rare, never seen one in the wild. So here's an idea let us make crow our national bird in place of peacock because most Indians are familiar with it. 

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Only solution: promote every single regional language equally and declare English as national language. We have seen the advantage of English on this forum itself where posters from different backgrounds put forth their views. English is a colonial legacy, luckily it has great relevance in today's world and provides equal footing to all Indians...let all of us move towards adopting this gift bestowed upon us by the British overlords.

Edited by Gollum

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