FischerTal Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, cric_fan said: No surprises. Every other day I read about brutalities against women in Ind on social media & news outlets. bhaijaan, your happiness has been cut in short. it was a poll based on perception.... not on actual data Edited June 27, 2018 by FischerTal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 36 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: In Pakistan, one could understand that there is frustration among the youth while they are not allowed to even talk to the girls. But such level of frustration in an open society of India is little bit puzzling. India is quite patriarchal and conservative, at least most of rural India which is the majority of India. The problem is compounded by the lack of law enforcement. Urban India is relatively better but has a long way to go as well. The idiocy of the "experts" is visible all across, how on earth does United States fit into the top 10 even if India is dragged into it ? Inko Bush pe gussa aata hai to Obama ko Nobel dete hain aur Trump pe gussa aata hai to USA is worst for women Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Not surprising. When just being born is a struggle for many girl babies.....rest is not surprising. People prevent girl births in all classes...poor, middle class, rich. Shameful. flamy, Vilander, eternalhope and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, beetle said: Not surprising. When just being born is a struggle for many girl babies.....rest is not surprising. People prevent girl births in all classes...poor, middle class, rich. Shameful. that's false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, beetle said: Not surprising. When just being born is a struggle for many girl babies.....rest is not surprising. People prevent girl births in all classes...poor, middle class, rich. Shameful. You have presented broader view of the issue, while we were perhaps limited to the harassment only. Thank you. I believe, dowry is still the main evil. If parents don't fear dowry, then they will accept the birth of a girl more easily. I believe India still tops when it comes to the practice of dowry. Laws are already there, but not showing effective results. I don't know what else should be done to improve the situation. Perhaps more practical implementation. I don't know about present situation in India, but in Pakistan too people were spending a lot of money on the marriage parties (20 to 50 different types of dishes). But then Nawaz Sharif banned it and allowed only 1 dish in the marriage. And this law was also implemented. As result, Pakistanis got a lot of relief, and each family was able to save many lakhs of Rs, as there are many marriage parties (Mangni, Mehndi, Nikah, Marriage, Walima ...). In India to, there are so many ceremonies around one marriage which last many days. I don't know how many dishes are allowed, but sure 1 dish party could help. Edited June 27, 2018 by Alam_dar beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Female foeticide is a real problem in our country, sex ratio in some states like Punjab, Haryana, Jammu & Kashmir etc is ridiculously skewed. This warrants serious introspection in our society because this particular social evil often flies under the radar. Child marriage has somewhat been mitigated and acid attacks/rapes are on the lower side if you see the per capita stats. Even for that matter instances of dowry are reducing. The situation for women in India is indeed worrisome but worst in the world....will never buy that. Edited June 27, 2018 by Gollum riya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: You have presented broader view of the issue, while we were perhaps limited to the harassment only. Thank you. I believe, dowry is still the main evil. If parents don't fear dowry, then they will accept the birth of a girl more easily. I believe India still tops when it comes to the practice of dowry. Laws are already there, but not showing effective results. I don't know what else should be done to improve the situation. Perhaps more practical implementation. I don't know about present situation in India, but in Pakistan too people were spending a lot of money on the marriage parties (20 to 50 different types of dishes). But then Nawaz Sharif banned it and allowed only 1 dish in the marriage. And this law was also implemented. As result, Pakistanis got a lot of relief, and each family was able to save many lakhs of Rs, as there are many marriage parties (Mangni, Mehndi, Nikah, Marriage, Walima ...). In India to, there are so many ceremonies around one marriage which last many days. I don't know how many dishes are allowed, but sure 1 dish party could help. Not just dowry...it is the whole patriachy thing. Guys are retirement plans with a service provider thrown in the form of son's wife. The society approves and expects this from son and his wife. Living with son is considered an entitlement for giving birth to son.The son's wife is expected to tale care of them in old age. It is strange that they expect service from a girl who had to leave her own parents to marry their son. In these times when more and more women are working ...having a son means two paychecks for the family , directly or indirectly because once a girl is married , she is expected to devote herself exclusively to her husband's family. Even now , it is not acceptable for parents to get financial support from daughters after marriage while a son is expected to continue supporting his parents and often siblings after his marriage. The parents of only daughters have to fend for themselves in old age . They spend their life's earnings and saving bringing up the girl, now days even educating her. When she reaches a stage when she can earn a living , they are expected to get her married of to serve and sometimes earn for husband's family because they gave birth to a son unlike them. Sometimes these marriages of daughter mean sending them off with their life times saving leaving them poor and without any support in old age. So a girls parents bring up a child , educate her and send her off to serve and earn for a other family while her parents have to fend for themselves.That is the definition of 'paraya dhan'. The 'paraya dhan ' is not just some words. In this country , it is true in most cases. Doesn't look like a profitable thing to do? Takes a big heart to raise only daughters. Not many have such hearts ....so they want a son at any cost. Now with this kind of society and its expectations, is it no wonder people want sons and not daughters. In older days people had many kids so a few daughters in between were more acceptable. Now people have less kids and people want the first one to be son. If first one is son...then second one being daughter is fine. If the first one is daughter, then there is a lot of pressure to have a son the second time .....sometimes, by any means. The solution is in making dowry unacceptable socially. The solution is in giving girls inheritance and making them equally responsible for taking care of their parents. The solution is in making children responsible for parents and not their spouses. The solution is in people living seperately because the daughter cannot take care of her parents living in her inlaws home . The solution is in makings girls less burden (which they are under the circumstances if you look practically) . Even the best families where girls are educated and earning ...the girls rarely get to take care of their parents either financially or physically.There are exceptions of course...like they are exceptions of some son in laws taking care of wife's parents. But these are rare exceptions to the rule. Girls have to be made an asset for her birth family so that people want daughters. But most importantly....people have to be taught to save for retirement irrespective of the gender of their children. Don't spend your money in higher education of children, let them take loan . Don't blow up your money of your childrens marriage and showing off. Let the children pay for their marriage when they can afford to pay for it... Even if it means no family circus type wedding... Even if it means children having more control over their lives .. Even if it means no grandchildren popping out once the kids are old enough to have them. Edited June 27, 2018 by beetle riya, flamy, Alam_dar and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerTal Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Gollum said: Female foeticide is a real problem in our country, sex ratio in some states like Punjab, Haryana, Jammu & Kashmir etc is ridiculously skewed. This warrants serious introspection in our society because this particular social evil often flies under the radar. Child marriage has somewhat been mitigated and acid attacks/rapes are on the lower side if you see the per capita stats. Even for that matter instances of dowry are reducing. The situation for women in India is indeed worrisome but worst in the world....will never buy that. brother this is the after-effect of India going ahead with S-400 deal with Russia. The globalists will do whatever they can to tarnish India's reputation whenever it takes an independent decision that doesn't benefit globalists. Expect more such hit jobs if India doesn't sign COMCASA. Edited June 27, 2018 by FischerTal Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, beetle said: Not just dowry...it is the whole patriachy thing. Guys are retirement plans with a service provider thrown in the form of son's wife. The society approves and expects this from son and his wife. Living with son is considered an entitlement for giving birth to son.The son's wife is expected to tale care of them in old age. It is strange that they expect service from a girl who had to leave her own parents to marry their son. In these times when more and more women are working ...having a son means two paychecks for the family , directly or indirectly because once a girl is married , she is expected to devote herself exclusively to her husband's family. Even now , it is not acceptable for parents to get financial support from daughters after marriage while a son is expected to continue supporting his parents and often siblings after his marriage. The parents of only daughters have to fend for themselves in old age . They spend their life's earnings and saving bringing up the girl, now days even educating her. When she reaches a stage when she can earn a living , they are expected to get her married of to serve and sometimes earn for husband's family because they gave birth to a son unlike them. Sometimes these marriages of daughter mean sending them off with their life times saving leaving them poor and without any support in old age. So a girls parents bring up a child , educate her and send her off to serve and earn for a other family while her parents have to fend for themselves.That is the definition of 'paraya dhan'. The 'paraya dhan ' is not just some words. In this country , it is true in most cases. Doesn't look like a profitable thing to do? Takes a big heart to raise only daughters. Not many have such hearts ....so they want a son at any cost. Now with this kind of society and its expectations, is it no wonder people want sons and not daughters. In older days people had many kids so a few daughters in between were more acceptable. Now people have less kids and people want the first one to be son. If first one is son...then second one being daughter is fine. If the first one is daughter, then there is a lot of pressure to have a son the second time .....sometimes, by any means. The solution is in making dowry unacceptable socially. The solution is in giving girls inheritance and making them equally responsible for taking care of their parents. The solution is in making children responsible for parents and not their spouses. The solution is in people living seperately because the daughter cannot take care of her parents living in her inlaws home . The solution is in makings girls less burden (which they are under the circumstances if you look practically) . Even the best families where girls are educated and earning ...the girls rarely get to take care of their parents either financially or physically.There are exceptions of course...like they are exceptions of some son in laws taking care of wife's parents. But these are rare exceptions to the rule. Girls have to be made an asset for her birth family so that people want daughters. But most importantly....people have to be taught to save for retirement irrespective of the gender of their children. Don't spend your money in higher education of children, let them take loan . Don't blow up your money of your childrens marriage and showing off. Let the children pay for their marriage when they can afford to pay for it... Even if it means no family circus type wedding... Even if it means children having more control over their lives .. Even if it means no grandchildren popping out once the kids are old enough to have them. A beautiful piece of writing. If you could dream it today, then you could also achieve it tomorrow. I don't think considerable number of people are ready to challenge these Traditions today. beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Alam_dar said: A beautiful piece of writing. If you could dream it today, then you could also achieve it tomorrow. I don't think considerable number of people are ready to challenge these Traditions today. It is very difficult when people are actually proud and protective of these traditions and consider it a part of the culture. It is not even black and white. It is not like there are families that are patriarchal , regressive and others that are not. It is pretty grey in most families. It is in almost all families to some degrees. Even in mine ....even though I come from a fairly progressive family. Most families are mixed gender...problem happens when families don't want to be only daughters family. Earlier people kept having kids till they got a boy. Now people have less kids and want to be sure. God knows how many people are actually using unlawful means. It is criminal...so people do not accept publicly. riya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: that's false Probably in case of poor because they often don't have the means and also because they usually have no social pressure to have less kids and better life style. The sex ratio in delhi is worse in the richer upper class regions of delhi. Alam_dar and riya 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_sex_ratio Worst ratio of girls/1000 boys: Punjab 846 Jammu and Kashmir 862 Delhi 871 Rajasthan 888 Gujarat 890 Uttarakhand 890 Maharashtra 894 Why this ratio of girls is so bad in these areas? Especially why in Jammu and Kashmir? Best ratio of girls/1000 boys: Arunachal Pradesh 972 Mizoram 970 Meghalaya 970 Kerala 964 Chhattisgarh 960 Sikkim 957 Tripura 957 Karnataka 948 Tamil Nadu 943 Southern and North/East of India seems to have the best ratio. Why? Could we draw some better conclusion from these stats? Edited June 27, 2018 by Alam_dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Could we draw some better conclusion from these stats? Yep, you barely know anything about India and shouldn't be making random conclusions. asterix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I guess USA would have been number 1, had Harvey Weinstein and President Donald Duck’s 100s of sex victims not been gagged by legal conditions and hush money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 Gone through some of the posts here which show concern over the fact that India is rated higher than some of the countries in ME and Africa. Most of us have not been to all of these countries in question. We have formed our opinion on them based on what we see (on TV, internet news, etc) and hear. Similarly, others form their opinion on India too We cannot say that can how India can be above x, when we are putting x above India based perception too flamy and GoldenSun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Alam_dar said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_sex_ratio Worst ratio of girls/1000 boys: Punjab 846 Jammu and Kashmir 862 Delhi 871 Rajasthan 888 Gujarat 890 Uttarakhand 890 Maharashtra 894 Why this ratio of girls is so bad in these areas? Especially why in Jammu and Kashmir? Best ratio of girls/1000 boys: Arunachal Pradesh 972 Mizoram 970 Meghalaya 970 Kerala 964 Chhattisgarh 960 Sikkim 957 Tripura 957 Karnataka 948 Tamil Nadu 943 Southern and North/East of India seems to have the best ratio. Why? Could we draw some better conclusion from these stats? Kerala and North East States have matrilineal societies in some of their clans, castes, tribes..in some cases it is even matriarchal. They also have higher literacy rates and better HDI parameters. I am not sure about this but there are lots of Christian missionary activities in these areas and they are quite rigid against abortion, so that too may be a contributing factor. Even culturally I guess there's a difference between South/N.E and rest of India because these regions never faced the brunt of foreign invasions due to geographical reasons..maybe there is a historical/cultural baggage as well. Also regions with higher tribal population (Chattisgarh, Odisha, N.E etc) have more balanced sex ratio because I guess tribals are more chilled out in this regard. Tribal girls constitute a part of the workforce and hence aren't seen as liabilities, also clinics which can perform sex detection tests won't be in close proximity to the tribal areas. So coming to your stats, yes you have made a succinct point about some regions doing better than others. But more needs to be done, even though South/N.E are better in this regard still there is misogyny and gender violence in those places but for the time being they are like the half blind people in the country of the blind. Edited June 27, 2018 by Gollum DHONI_FANN, Alam_dar and FischerTal 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 46 minutes ago, zen said: Gone through some of the posts here which show concern over the fact that India is rated higher than some of the countries in ME and Africa. Most of us have not been to all of these countries in question. We have formed our opinion on them based on what we see (on TV, internet news, etc) and hear. Similarly, others form their opinion on India too We cannot say that can how India can be above x, when we are putting x above India based perception too Hence calling out such polls based on perception. The ranking should always be on data. These ideologically influenced polls are like the ones like UNESCO declaring India has the best National Anthem. Let's compare data based on per million of population and discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 51 minutes ago, zen said: Gone through some of the posts here which show concern over the fact that India is rated higher than some of the countries in ME and Africa. Most of us have not been to all of these countries in question. We have formed our opinion on them based on what we see (on TV, internet news, etc) and hear. Similarly, others form their opinion on India too We cannot say that can how India can be above x, when we are putting x above India based perception too Problem is, keeping India aside, how can one take such surveys seriously when US is ranked 10! I can think of half dozens countries (some I have been to) where it’s definelty much much worse than US, from attitudes to women,to law enforcement for women, freedom Moochad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerTal Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 india is ranked above these people....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerTal Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 more enlightenment from country ranked better than India in women safety. the accent seems british..... Europe is fecked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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