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Shivam Dubey

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3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

his bowling and that of shankar are not test-level, even by the standards of batting allrounders. The closest analogy that comes to mind (although a spinner) is Carl Hooper - it's true that Hooper could bowl a decent no. of overs as the 5th bowler, but he was completely toothless as seen from his avg. I think the same will also apply to Shankar and Dubey as of now, unless they improve later on. In Tests, just bowling overs and holding an end up is not enough for the 5th bowler. If one looks as Carl Hooper, Viv  Richards, etc. they were handy ODI bowlers (i.e. batting all-rounders) but not so in tests.

 

Similarly, in ODIs, there is no place anymore for military medium bowlers. People like Larsen, Ealham and Chris Harris would be smacked for a truckload of runs. Hence, while Dubey and especially Shankar may be better at batting than Hardik, their bowling is not up to the mark. Of course, Hardik is quite far from the finished article himself in both batting & bowling, but I don't see any real alternatives to him right now. In the long-term future, maybe Nagarkoti/Mavi will emerge as reliable pace bowling all-rounders.

I find that sentence funny. Its self contradictory. Btw, Dubey's bowling seems decent enough for test. I would put it this way, Dubey's bowling is far better than Pandya's batting abilities in tests. As a bowler, Pandya is as clueless as it gets. Its like playing a game of darts with eyes closed. You never know when you're going to hit something. 

Comparing Dubey's bowling to viv richards is ridiculous. Or even carl hoopers. He knows how to bowl in a channel, can swing decently. Knows how to set a batsman and how to stop run flow. Seems to know how to bowl wicket to wicket. Seems fine to me!

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2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I find that sentence funny. Its self contradictory. Btw, Dubey's bowling seems decent enough for test. I would put it this way, Dubey's bowling is far better than Pandya's batting abilities in tests. As a bowler, Pandya is as clueless as it gets. Its like playing a game of darts with eyes closed. You never know when you're going to hit something.  

Comparing Dubey's bowling to viv richards is ridiculous. Or even carl hoopers. He knows how to bowl in a channel, can swing decently. Knows how to set a batsman and how to stop run flow. Seems to know how to bowl wicket to wicket. Seems fine to me! 

I don't think there was much of a contradiction - I don't think Pandya is the finished article, and the same also holds true for Shankar and Dubey. None of them can be classified as Ben Stokes category. Moreover, not many bowlers who get by these days just trundling wkt to wkt on the int'l scene - need something extra.

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3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I don't think there was much of a contradiction - I don't think Pandya is the finished article, and the same also holds true for Shankar and Dubey. None of them can be classified as Ben Stokes category. Moreover, not many bowlers who get by these days just trundling wkt to wkt on the int'l scene - need something extra.

Which is why it was contradictory. If Pandya is not a finished product, then he doesnt deserve to be in the team. And you yourself admit to it. If we do not have a finished product all rounder, then we shouldnt take just about anybody, because theres no point going below mediocrity. 

However, in the same breadth, you tried to say since Dubey and Shankar are also not finished products, we should rather have Pandya! And thats contradictory to me.

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19 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Which is why it was contradictory. If Pandya is not a finished product, then he doesnt deserve to be in the team. And you yourself admit to it. If we do not have a finished product all rounder, then we shouldnt take just about anybody, because theres no point going below mediocrity. 

However, in the same breadth, you tried to say since Dubey and Shankar are also not finished products, we should rather have Pandya! And thats contradictory to me.

all I said is that I don't seem any alternatives to him now, not that he should be played everywhere and anywhere. 5 + 1 + 5 is the best we can do for now, esp if 2 out of these 5 bowlers are ashwin/jaddu/bhuvi.

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5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

all I said is that I don't seem any alternatives to him now, not that he should be played everywhere and anywhere. 5 + 1 + 5 is the best we can do for now, esp if 2 out of these 5 bowlers are ashwin/jaddu/bhuvi.

I do not agree to playing a liability in the team. But I respect your opinion and point of view.

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This guy could be good bat in white ball cricket.  Defo will be on IPL radar.

 

Yuvraj singh clone

 

Bowling is awful and non factor.  Binny/ Collingwood type.  Nota all rounder for india nor is Shankhar.  Both will have good keepers standing up tp stumps.  They will get licked in big boys cricket

 

This is KEY difference between Hardik Pandya and any other all rounders who bowl seam since Kapil Dev (not just current bunch) .  Panday bowl serious wheels and can trouible top batsamn with his bolwing, we have seen this at time already.  Yes he is not prefect but this is why in team , bowls pace and bats proper.  The others just bat proper and bowl dibbly dobbly crap at 75 mph

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On 12/1/2018 at 3:55 PM, Vijy said:

all I said is that I don't seem any alternatives to him now, not that he should be played everywhere and anywhere. 5 + 1 + 5 is the best we can do for now, esp if 2 out of these 5 bowlers are ashwin/jaddu/bhuvi.

There are a handful of guys who have written him off and will continue to do so, regardless of the facts of the matter.  Facts don't matter, only confirmation bias does.  

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On 12/2/2018 at 1:52 AM, Rightarmfast said:

I find that sentence funny. Its self contradictory. Btw, Dubey's bowling seems decent enough for test. I would put it this way, Dubey's bowling is far better than Pandya's batting abilities in tests. As a bowler, Pandya is as clueless as it gets. Its like playing a game of darts with eyes closed. You never know when you're going to hit something. 

Comparing Dubey's bowling to viv richards is ridiculous. Or even carl hoopers. He knows how to bowl in a channel, can swing decently. Knows how to set a batsman and how to stop run flow. Seems to know how to bowl wicket to wicket. Seems fine to me!

Shivam Dubey is much more sound batsman than Hardik Pandya. 

 

FC comparison:

1. Shivam Dubey has already scored one more ton than Hardik Pandya in 38 less innings.

2. Shivam Dubey's highest score is also better than Hardik Pandya's highest FC score in just 7 innings.

3. The less said about average the better. He looks well set to surpass Hardik pandya's FC runs tally in less than half the number of matches.

image.png.2417a0ba48ddf5a3c8e429ac240e12ca.png

Edited by Straight Drive

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8 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

where was this guy all the while??? Already over 25 and has played only 4 FC matches...... A bit strange....

Abhishek Nayar was Mumbai's all rounder till 2017 - 2018 Ranji Season. Shivam Dubey is his like to like replacement of pace all rounder since Abhishek Nayar is now representing Puducherry this season.  Abhishek Nayar was a gun FC cricketer.  Batting average of 45.38 with 1 wicket per bowling innings in FC. 

Edited by Straight Drive

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1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

Shivam Dubey is much more sound batsman than Hardik Pandya. 

 

FC comparison:

1. Shivam Dubey has already scored one more ton than Hardik Pandya in 38 less innings.

2. Shivam Dubey's highest score is also better than Hardik Pandya's highest FC score in just 7 innings.

3. The less said about average the better. He looks well set to surpass Hardik pandya's FC runs tally in less than half the number of matches.

image.png.2417a0ba48ddf5a3c8e429ac240e12ca.png

Er

 

He may be beter bat.  So maybe Shakhar.  Not sure.  Problem is with these 2 is there bolwing is tragic dross.  I dont even call them all rounders as 65 mph seam up is gonna get spanked.  Might as well call dada and sunny all rounders if these guys are called ones. 

 

I dont even call Dubey a trundler as not quick enough for that.

 

Like him as a bat. But players like him show why Pandya is played as bowls serious clicks and bats.  No one close to him since Kapil Dev in this regard.  This maybe sad indictment on indian cricket but thtas how rare and unique pandya is

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18 hours ago, SUMO said:

With this kind of bowling he can target kedar's place not pandya.

If he can bat with sense he can definitely replacr kedar/pant at no. 6

Even otherwise there is no harm in playing two similar type of all-rounders based on conditions. In the late 90s, South Africans used to play Pollock, klusener, Kallis, McMillan in the same 11. 

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Being an outside fan I've got a question for Indian folks. Are these Indian batsman as good as their FC stats? In Pakistan almost all bowlers average <30 with many averaging below 25 however their stats are overstated as they get bowling suitable conditions and the batsmen are awful. The vast majority are helpless trundlers. So was just wondering if it was the opposite way around In India?

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4 hours ago, Mirpur express said:

Being an outside fan I've got a question for Indian folks. Are these Indian batsman as good as their FC stats? In Pakistan almost all bowlers average <30 with many averaging below 25 however their stats are overstated as they get bowling suitable conditions and the batsmen are awful. The vast majority are helpless trundlers. So was just wondering if it was the opposite way around In India?

There are people like Sir Jaddu whose batting stats are inflated. However, with that said, there are plenty of bowlers in India with sub-25 avgs who have inflated stats as well - Joginder Sharma, Gagandeep Singh, Basant Mohanty, etc are some examples. All of them were useless trundlers but domestic gods.

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On 7/4/2018 at 10:49 AM, Mosher said:

This guy seems to be a good lower order hitter. Smashed Tambe for 5 sixes in an over. Clean striker of the ball. Looks a bit like Yuvraj when he hits big. Want to see how he plays against quicker bowlers. @express bowling @rkt.india

 

 
 
 

 

 

 

 

Good early talent spotting bro !    :two_thumbs_up:

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3 minutes ago, bahubali said:

Why can't have dubey in place of jadhav....even axar would be upgrade on jadhav.

 

Dube is an ideal candidate for replacing Jadhav.

 

And Axar's much improved hitting and batting abilities need to be utilized too. He can be an ideal backup for Hardik.

 

Dube can't be a Hardik backup.

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Dube in this tournament so far 

 

 

79 not out off 60 balls with 6 sixes

 

45 not out off 28 balls with 3 sixes

 

31 off 17 balls with 2 sixes

 

 

Simply wow !

 

What a clean hitter and big hitter !

 

Can bowl a few overs too.

 

Ideal No.6 for ODIs and T20Is.


 

Edited by express bowling

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On 9/5/2019 at 11:19 AM, express bowling said:

 

Dube is an ideal candidate for replacing Jadhav.

 

And Axar's much improved hitting and batting abilities need to be utilized too. He can be an ideal backup for Hardik.

 

Dube can't be a Hardik backup.

        How about  Dube   at no.7 in SENA and hardik moves to No. 6 ? 

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

him being at 6 or 7 in Sena or at home is secondary 1st we need to check how good is he against International pace 

 

With lots of Indian seamers bowling at international pace these days, even in domestic cricket, most young Indian batters can handle international pace.

 

Dube was playing the rather sharp Nortje with comfort and often disdain.

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1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

With lots of Indian seamers bowling at international pace these days, even in domestic cricket, most young Indian batters can handle international pace.

Even rayudu has handled them well...... but international pacers have troubled him. 

When we say international pace quality we also mean Pace with skill  . Still we also dont have starc , rabadda, archer even stanlake in domestic  . Its also what they do with the ball 

 

We have someone quick like umesh who everyone has smashed . 

Yes most current indian batsman are good agaist pace but still many have their issues to - like rana has bouncer issues, krunal is weak against pacers.....i have seen dubey getting yorker by pandya n he was beaten in pace. 

 

Next t20 WC is in Aus and we need to test him before that....

 

I have my doubts regd him against high pace specially when its pitch up

@rkt.india mentioned today that he thinks dubey is poor against short pitch bowling 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

him being at 6 or 7 in Sena or at home is secondary 1st we need to check how good is he against International pace 

  Even to check if he is good , he needs to be in the eleven.  

  And he has a chance to be in eleven in matches played in SENA rather than in SC going by his bowling style.  

  As far AS WC 23 considered , India will go for  someone who a spinner rather than the military mediums like Dube, Shankar.  

   

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On 12/3/2018 at 10:47 PM, King Tendulkar said:

Er

 

He may be beter bat.  So maybe Shakhar.  Not sure.  Problem is with these 2 is there bolwing is tragic dross.  I dont even call them all rounders as 65 mph seam up is gonna get spanked.  Might as well call dada and sunny all rounders if these guys are called ones. 

 

I dont even call Dubey a trundler as not quick enough for that.

 

Like him as a bat. But players like him show why Pandya is played as bowls serious clicks and bats.  No one close to him since Kapil Dev in this regard.  This maybe sad indictment on indian cricket but thtas how rare and unique pandya is

How fast grandhomme and nisham bowl.

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22 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

  As far AS WC 23 considered , India will go for  someone who a spinner rather than the military mediums like Dube, Shankar.  

2023 is a long way away and there is no saying what happens to Dube by then. He might fail and not even be in the conversation by 2023. But if he turns out to be good and so does Pandya, there's no reason why both can't play at No. 6/7 with two specialist spinners in the XI.

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17 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Even rayudu has handled them well...... but international pacers have troubled him. 

When we say international pace quality we also mean Pace with skill  . Still we also dont have starc , rabadda, archer even stanlake in domestic  . Its also what they do with the ball 

 

We have someone quick like umesh who everyone has smashed . 

Yes most current indian batsman are good agaist pace but still many have their issues to - like rana has bouncer issues, krunal is weak against pacers.....i have seen dubey getting yorker by pandya n he was beaten in pace. 

 

 

The only way to learn to tackle the likes of Bumrah,  Starc, Rabada or Archer is to play against them for some time.  

 

You don't learn to play such combination of pace and skills by staying at domestic cricket level.

 

Edited by express bowling

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