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Shivam Dubey

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15 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The only way to learn to tackle the likes of Bumrah,  Starc, Rabada or Archer is to play against them for some time.  

 

You don't learn to play such combination of pace and skills by staying at domestic cricket level.

 

Yes,even on A tours you don't get to play first line of pacers,so even that won't ensure one is good against pace or will be good at intl level

So ,they should be tried first in  few intl matches as it seems next step  in his development as an international prospect

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1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

  Even to check if he is good , he needs to be in the eleven.  

  And he has a chance to be in eleven in matches played in SENA rather than in SC going by his bowling style.  

  As far AS WC 23 considered , India will go for  someone who a spinner rather than the military mediums like Dube, Shankar.  

   

yea thats what m saying he needs to be given a chance to see how good is he against them....even if he isnt it wud be goof for his evaluation

shankar anyways isnt an all rounder for me.....he is a batsman who can ball and that to his bowling wud be valuable in places like NZ n Eng only. 

 

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1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

2023 is a long way away and there is no saying what happens to Dube by then. He might fail and not even be in the conversation by 2023. But if he turns out to be good and so does Pandya, there's no reason why both can't play at No. 6/7 with two specialist spinners in the XI.

     No TM will go with 2 Spinners + 4 pace/medium pace  for WC in India . NO Way. 

      In fact a good TM will try to figure out who is their no.6 ( Better bat who can bowl some overs of decent spin)  to replace Kedar . The next 2-3 years will be testing phase for such guys .

For t20s  & SENA matches def. Dubey /Shankar should be on the radar.

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5 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Dube and Pandya, if they're not in bad form by then.

       So on those slow , low  used pitches in WC ,selectors & TM will go for  2 pacers and 2 medium pacers  !!

       Lets just keep a tab , In how many  50 over matches in India from this date till Dec 2022 , India will go with 2 pacers + 2 medium pacers .

        Bet you , not even one .

       

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3 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

     

       Lets just keep a tab , In how many  50 over matches in India from this date till Dec 2022 , India will go with 2 pacers + 2 medium pacers .

        Bet you , not even one .

       

 

In ODIs in India, we have used 2 pacers + Hardik + 2 spinners for a long time now.

 

 

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On 9/8/2019 at 9:47 PM, express bowling said:

 

In ODIs in India, we have used 2 pacers + Hardik + 2 spinners for a long time now.

 

 

        Point was about both Hardik & Dube playing in indian pitches with 2 proper pacers + 2 spinners and possibility of going with such a 

        combination for WC 23 which will be in India .

       In the combination you have mentioned above they always used 6th part timer who is spinner. Yuvi, Raina , Kedar and not a military medium guy.  

 

  I do not see both Hardik & Dubey in the 11 as :- 

   1. Do not think we will be better off with #6 & #7  both are not your best pacers . In fact cannot expect Dubey to bowl even 3 overs in indian 

       conditions. 

    2. India always went with 6th bowler  who bowled few overs of spin. The condition of the pitch , after being used for the season will always

       favour  a spinner rather  than MM bowler.

   3. If Dubey cannot be sure of bowling then is he going to be considered only for his batting?  I think india has far better batsmen than him likes of         Gill , Iyer , KL  ahead of him.

     I am 110% sure   our 6th part time bowler will be   a spinner in SC rather than a pacer , hence selectors will try Rana, Axar, Jaddu , Vihari (??) , Hooda for that spot .      

      Rather than going with hardik & Dubey , it would be better to take a gamble and go with 2 pacers + 2 spinners + hardik (5 bowlers only) in some critical matches  with one additional pure batsman hoping everyone will bowl 10 overs . But that cannot  be the team most of the time unless Iyer somehow learns to bowl 3 overs of  half  decent spin. . 

 

 

  

   

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32 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

        Point was about both Hardik & Dube playing in indian pitches with 2 proper pacers + 2 spinners and possibility of going with such a 

        combination for WC 23 which will be in India .

       In the combination you have mentioned above they always used 6th part timer who is spinner. Yuvi, Raina , Kedar and not a military medium guy.  

 

  I do not see both Hardik & Dubey in the 11 as :- 

   1. Do not think we will be better off with #6 & #7  both are not your best pacers . In fact cannot expect Dubey to bowl even 3 overs in indian 

       conditions. 

    2. India always went with 6th bowler  who bowled few overs of spin. The condition of the pitch , after being used for the season will always

       favour  a spinner rather  than MM bowler.

   3. If Dubey cannot be sure of bowling then is he going to be considered only for his batting?  I think india has far better batsmen than him likes of         Gill , Iyer , KL  ahead of him.

     I am 110% sure   our 6th part time bowler will be   a spinner in SC rather than a pacer , hence selectors will try Rana, Axar, Jaddu , Vihari (??) , Hooda for that spot .      

      Rather than going with hardik & Dubey , it would be better to take a gamble and go with 2 pacers + 2 spinners + hardik (5 bowlers only) in some critical matches  with one additional pure batsman hoping everyone will bowl 10 overs . But that cannot  be the team most of the time unless Iyer somehow learns to bowl 3 overs of  half  decent spin. . 

 

 

  

   

You are underestimating Dubeyji..

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On 9/7/2019 at 8:05 PM, prudent_kreeda said:

     No TM will go with 2 Spinners + 4 pace/medium pace  for WC in India . NO Way. 

      In fact a good TM will try to figure out who is their no.6 ( Better bat who can bowl some overs of decent spin)  to replace Kedar . The next 2-3 years will be testing phase for such guys .

For t20s  & SENA matches def. Dubey /Shankar should be on the radar.

 

5 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Not sure what the issue is if we have two attacking frontline spinners.

 

On 9/8/2019 at 6:04 PM, prudent_kreeda said:

       So on those slow , low  used pitches in WC ,selectors & TM will go for  2 pacers and 2 medium pacers  !!

       Lets just keep a tab , In how many  50 over matches in India from this date till Dec 2022 , India will go with 2 pacers + 2 medium pacers .

        Bet you , not even one .

       

In 2023, India might even go with 2 pacer + 3 spinner+ pandya. 

If jadeja batting keeps improving which has been the case in Last 1-2 yrs he can surely bat at 6 and be the 5th bowler making hardik the 6th one. Having options like sundar, gowtham, gopal might help this cause as they can bat as well and within 4 years if kuldeep keeps his place m sure his batting wud improve. 

3 spinner in 2023 can be lethal considering in WC 2nd half pitches start to turn a lot and jadeja becomes very dangeorus in such scenarios. 

 

In 2023 Wc, Spin bowling all rounder will play a huge role and luckily we have good options for that 

 

As far as seam all rounders like shankar n dubey is concerned .....they ll have to make it to the squad as batsman bowling being bonus 

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8 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

        Point was about both Hardik & Dube playing in indian pitches with 2 proper pacers + 2 spinners and possibility of going with such a 

        combination for WC 23 which will be in India .

       In the combination you have mentioned above they always used 6th part timer who is spinner. Yuvi, Raina , Kedar and not a military medium guy.  

 

  I do not see both Hardik & Dubey in the 11 as :- 

   1. Do not think we will be better off with #6 & #7  both are not your best pacers . In fact cannot expect Dubey to bowl even 3 overs in indian 

       conditions. 

    2. India always went with 6th bowler  who bowled few overs of spin. The condition of the pitch , after being used for the season will always

       favour  a spinner rather  than MM bowler.

 

My point is  ... if the 6th bowler is someone who does not get to bowl in half the matches and bowls 3 to 5 overs when he gets the chance then how important is his bowling type ? 

 

Such a part timer does not really add value as either a pacer or a spinner ... but needs to send down a few decently economical overs if some bowler is having an off day. 

 

Let's take the case of our current 6th bowler Jadhav.

 

His overall ODI bowljng stats ...

 

-- Has not bowled in 40% of the matches he has played in.

-- Has bowled 2.9 overs per match.

-- Has bowled 4.8 overs per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has 0.66 wickets per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has a bowling average of 37

-- Has an ER of 5.13

 

Now, let's take his bowling stats in India

 

--  Has not bowled in 38% of the matches he has played in.

-- Has bowled 3.5 overs per match.

-- Has bowled 5.5 overs per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has 0.66 wickets per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has a bowling average of 46

-- Has an ER of 5.54.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/290716.html?class=2;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

So, we see that Jadhav, being a spinner, has increased his usage only marginally in ODIs in India while his performance has actually dropped in India.

 

Which is why I think that the bowler type of the 6th bowler is not important unless we can play a decent enough bowler like say Axar as the No.6 batsman ( and he is not a No.6 batsman yet ).

 

Hardik at 6, Axar at 7 maybe a good option in India though.

 

Quote

   3. If Dubey cannot be sure of bowling then is he going to be considered only for his batting?  I think india has far better batsmen than him likes of         Gill , Iyer , KL  ahead of him.

 

It depends on the batting position which is open.

Gill or Iyer can't be the No.6 or No.7 batter ... and those slots are ideal for Dube. 

 

And Dube can't be the No.4 or No.5 batter.

 

Quote

     I am 110% sure   our 6th part time bowler will be   a spinner in SC rather than a pacer , hence selectors will try Rana, Axar, Jaddu , Vihari (??) , Hooda for that spot .      

     

 

  

 

I feel that the choice of the 6th batsman cum 6th bowler should be based primarily on his big hitting ability ... and the ability to send down 5 decently economical overs if needed.

 

It should not be based on his bowling type. A Dube of mid 2019 adds much more value as a No.6 batsman who bowls a bit, than a Hooda of mid 2019 ... even if we are playing in India.

 

At best, Iyer should told to practice his bowling.

Edited by express bowling

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21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

My point is  ... if the 6th bowler is someone who does not get to bowl in half the matches and bowls 3 to 5 overs when he gets the chance then how important is his bowling type ? 

 

Such a part timer does not really add value as either a pacer or a spinner ... but needs to send down a few decently economical overs if some bowler is having an off day. 

 

Let's take the case of our current 6th bowler Jadhav.

 

His overall ODI bowljng stats ...

 

-- Has not bowled in 40% of the matches he has played in.

-- Has bowled 2.9 overs per match.

-- Has bowled 4.8 overs per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has 0.66 wickets per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has a bowling average of 37

-- Has an ER of 5.13

 

Now, let's take his bowling stats in India

 

--  Has not bowled in 38% of the matches he has played in.

-- Has bowled 3.5 overs per match.

-- Has bowled 5.5 overs per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has 0.66 wickets per innings he has actually bowled in.

-- Has a bowling average of 46

-- Has an ER of 5.54.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/290716.html?class=2;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

So, we see that Jadhav, being a spinner, has increased his usage only marginally in ODIs in India while his performance has actually dropped in India.

 

Which is why I think that the bowler type of the 6th bowler is not important unless we can play a decent enough bowler like say Axar as the No.6 batsman ( and he is not a No.6 batsman yet ).

 

Hardik at 6, Axar at 7 maybe a good option in India though.

 

 

It depends on the batting position which is open.

Gill or Iyer can't be the No.6 or No.7 batter ... and those slots are ideal for Dube. 

 

And Dube can't be the No.4 or No.5 batter.

 

 

I feel that the choice of the 6th batsman cum 6th bowler should be based primarily on his big hitting ability ... and the ability to send down 5 decently economical overs if needed.

 

It should not be based on his bowling type. A Dube of mid 2019 adds much more value as a No.6 batsman who bowls a bit, than a Hooda of mid 2019 ... even if we are playing in India.

 

At best, Iyer should told to practice his bowling.

Moreover a regular 6th bowler usually bowls after powerplay and with lots of cushion like immediately after a wicket falls to squeeze in couple of overs.. Jadhav's bowling in English conditons was always going to be a huge gamble and it turned out to be an utter flop. Dube or Vijay Shankar could have done better on that cloudy fateful day..

 

 

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Dube is an million times incremental upgrade over a 34 yr old midget jhadhav who for all his prowess can't even clear 30 yrd circle.. heck even Bangladesh would put our no 5, 6 to shame!! With ball eater thala nd midget jhadhav we can't even win trivial competitions.. let alone winning worldcup.. 

However the tribulations is even after costing india a world cup.. those Muppets at helm are still making merry ..at cost of India's detriments... it won't be surprising if we again see a second incarnation of lord thala with his awfully incredibly lunges galore.. nd with midget jhadhav continuing to be as futile as it can get... Seriously sorry state of affairs...

 

What we need is a dube like hitter at no 6.. he was at ease with such extreme pace of South Africa A bowlers.. he disdainfully dispatched nortje all around the park.. has a solid base a la yuvraj!!.. nd more importantly he doesn't hack.. rather he has power behind his shots nd times it well..  i hv also Watched his 70's odds runs innings against west Indies A.. looks benign to eyes nvr leaves impression of a bottler .. rather has an intimidating presence in crease with confidence oozing out!! These are attributes associated to good nd great players a la virat, hardik, rohit, bumrah et al.. not like jhadhav, kl, rayudu nd co who behaves like a deer in headlights!! 

Hope sanity prevails or else we will keep on clutching at straws rather then winning worldcups..

5.Pant 6.dube 7.hardik would be an ideal choice for next year t20 worldcup nd coming ODI series

 

Edited by Amit228

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14 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

           3. If Dubey cannot be sure of bowling then is he going to be considered only for his batting?  I think india has far better batsmen than him likes of         Gill , Iyer , KL  ahead of him.

KL's form is in question and Gill doesn't have the big hitting game to play in the middle order. Iyer would make a good No. 4 but 5, 6, 7? Needs some big hitters and Dube, Pandya and Pant/Kishan could factor in that.

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Gill can be an ideal No.4.  He is s natural stroke-player, can rotate strike, can hit big shots too but not on demand. ( which is why he can't bat at No.6 or No.7 )

The skills that you mentioned are more suited for a No. 3. I don't think Gill playing at his regular pace can score quicker than Kohli playing at his regular pace, which is why it makes no sense to me that Gill would play below Kohli. A No. 4 should be able to up the momentum in the middle overs and then notch it up to 5th/6th gear approaching the death, and that's not Gill's game. I'm not saying he'd do badly at it, just that he's not suited for it as compared to someone like Iyer.

 

I see it more suited to Gill to be playing at No. 3 with Kohli batting after him at 4, but that's a move I think most here would disagree with, even though I think Kohli's skillsets make him the perfect No. 4.

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47 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

The skills that you mentioned are more suited for a No. 3. I don't think Gill playing at his regular pace can score quicker than Kohli playing at his regular pace, which is why it makes no sense to me that Gill would play below Kohli. A No. 4 should be able to up the momentum in the middle overs and then notch it up to 5th/6th gear approaching the death, and that's not Gill's game. I'm not saying he'd do badly at it, just that he's not suited for it as compared to someone like Iyer.

 

I see it more suited to Gill to be playing at No. 3 with Kohli batting after him at 4, but that's a move I think most here would disagree with, even though I think Kohli's skillsets make him the perfect No. 4.

 

Gill can up the ante in the middle overs. I have seen it. His only shortcoming is batting in the last 5 overs.

 

Iyer maybe can bat at either 4 or 5.  But I like the solidity of Gill at 4. 

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2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Gill can up the ante in the middle overs. I have seen it.

The thing is what you have seen of him in the middle overs is mostly when he was opening the innings and is already set by then. That's different than coming in at the crease in the middle overs and immediately getting the scoreboard running with your partner at the other end.

 

Again, top order and No. 4 require unique skillsets. At No. 4, we need someone who's naturally more attacking tham Kohli, not less.

Edited by TNAmarkFromIndia

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47 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

The thing is what you have seen of him in the middle overs is mostly when he was opening the innings and is already set by then. That's different than coming in at the crease in the middle overs and immediately getting the scoreboard running with your partner at the other end.

 

Again, top order and No. 4 require unique skillsets. At No. 4, we need someone who's naturally more attacking tham Kohli, not less.

 

Gill is actually way more attacking than Kohli. His FC SR of 76 is partial reflection of that.

 

His only shortcoming, which may also be his strength, is that he can't slog on demand.

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Just now, express bowling said:

 

Gill is actually way more attacking than Kohli. His FC SR of 76 is partial reflection of that.

 

His only shortcoming, which may also be his strength, is that he can't slog on demand.

That can come with experience, even Kallis had one gear for a long period n then adjusted, Gill, Shaw, Sarfaraz, Pant for me are the future

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2 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

A List-A strike rate of less than 90 proves otherwise.

 

Domestic List-A games are, more often than not, much lower scoring affairs than ODIs due to the nature of pitches used. You will see most players having lower strike rates in List-A.

 

Take the case of a really big hitter like Hardik Pandya.

 

ODI. SR of  115.6

List-A  SR of only 85  (  excluding ODIs ).

 

Gill's List-A SR of 88 is very good actually.

 

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9 hours ago, express bowling said:

Domestic List-A games are, more often than not, much lower scoring affairs than ODIs due to the nature of pitches used. You will see most players having lower strike rates in List-A.

Kedar Jadhav, Ajinkya Rahane, Dinesh Karthik, Ravindra Jadeja all have superior strike rates in List-A than they do in ODIs. As do guys like KL Rahul, Rishabh Pant and Vijay Shankar, but you'd probably say they haven't played that many ODIs.

Edited by TNAmarkFromIndia

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1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Kedar Jadhav, Ajinkya Rahane, Dinesh Karthik, Ravindra Jadeja all have superior strike rates in List-A than they do in ODIs. As do guys like KL Rahul, Rishabh Pant and Vijay Shankar, but you'd probably say they haven't played that many ODIs.

 

Kedar Jadhav is one guy who has truly managed to score somewhat faster in domestic List-A matches compared to ODIs. 

 

Most of the other guys in that list have either not played that many ODIs as you said  or have not been able to perform that well with the bat in ODIs, like Rahane and Jadeja.

 

 

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Kedar Jadhav is one guy who has truly managed to score somewhat faster in domestic List-A matches compared to ODIs. 

 

Most of the other guys in that list have either not played that many ODIs as you said  or have not been able to perform that well with the bat in ODIs, like Rahane and Jadeja.

Actually your argument is flawed. More pitches are getting flatter in India, and in domestic cricket the batsmen get to feast on a much inferior level of bowling. Hence why you have so many players with a lower strike rate in ODIs than List-A. You can't tell me Dinesh Karthik with 94 ODIs has played too few games. His ODI strike rate is 73.24 compared to his List-A strike rate of 99.78.

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20 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

KL's form is in question and Gill doesn't have the big hitting game to play in the middle order. Iyer would make a good No. 4 but 5, 6, 7? Needs some big hitters and Dube, Pandya and Pant/Kishan could factor in that.

I am not sure how good a hitter Kishan is against international level fast bowling.. I know that he can hit spinners easily in the cow corner..

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1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Actually your argument is flawed. More pitches are getting flatter in India, and in domestic cricket the batsmen get to feast on a much inferior level of bowling. Hence why you have so many players with a lower strike rate in ODIs than List-A. You can't tell me Dinesh Karthik with 94 ODIs has played too few games. His ODI strike rate is 73.24 compared to his List-A strike rate of 99.78.

 

Here are the scores of the first 15 games of Vijay Hazare Trophy 2018-19.

 

Played in different venues.

 

I did not pick and choose any game

 

238

239

 

266

267

 

290

255

 

190

183

 

231

235

 

303

278

 

118

104

 

253

254

 

120

121

 

254

151

 

187

170

 

245

107

 

268

146

 

184

186

 

237

238

 

 

Now you form an opinion.

 

Most pitches for domestic games in India are bowler friendly now. And that is being done by design.

Edited by express bowling

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2 hours ago, Vk1 said:

I am not sure how good a hitter Kishan is against international level fast bowling.. I know that he can hit spinners easily in the cow corner..

Maybe just decent,but can hit them

He was manhandling Lockie Ferguson early this year in our A tour to NZ,though it remains to be seen whether he can do it consistently or was it an exception

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Odis are being played on far more flatter tracks than in domestics now which nullifies  effect of international bowlers,not only in India but also in other domestic setups scores have been modest

No one would watch  internationals being played on bowler friendly conditions,people do come to stadiums for huge sixes thats what makes t20s more relevant,a popular perception though

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3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Now you form an opinion.

Most pitches for domestic games in India are bowler friendly now. And that is being done by design.

Now here's the strike rates of the top 10 run scorers in the same tournament.

 

90.03

110.44

118.95

124.11

83.84

87.80

95.44

83.93

91.46

111.57

 

7 out of 10 are 90+. 4 out of those 100+.

 

Shubman Gill scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 83.93. In comparison to his own Punjab team mates Anmolpreet Singh who scored 314 runs at a strike rate of 114.59, and Gurkeerat Singh who scored 268 runs at a strike rate of 107.63. If you think a strike rate of 88 is great, I can only imagine what you think of a strike rate of 105+. Even Gautam Gambhir scored 518 runs at a strike rate of 110.44 in that tournament. You think he could have scored faster than that in ODIs in 2018/19?

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18 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Now here's the strike rates of the top 10 run scorers in the same tournament.

 

90.03

110.44

118.95

124.11

83.84

87.80

95.44

83.93

91.46

111.57

 

7 out of 10 are 90+. 4 out of those 100+.

 

Shubman Gill scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 83.93. In comparison to his own Punjab team mates Anmolpreet Singh who scored 314 runs at a strike rate of 114.59, and Gurkeerat Singh who scored 268 runs at a strike rate of 107.63. If you think a strike rate of 88 is great, I can only imagine what you think of a strike rate of 105+. Even Gautam Gambhir scored 518 runs at a strike rate of 110.44 in that tournament. You think he could have scored faster than that in ODIs in 2018/19?

 

 

1)  Many of the top SRs you have quoted are Plate League batsmen playing against much inferior bowling attacks.

 

2)  SR of batters in 50 over games depend on the roles given to batters too. Many high SR batters are those who bat either in the lower middle order or are used as pinch hitters. Gill's role is neither of the two.

 

3) Anmolpreet played just 3 games. Sample is too small.  Gurkeerat usually comes to bat later in the innings and his role is to slog. Not really comparable to Gill.

 

4) Main point is ... having watched Gill in many many matches ... he usually scores very quickly. Only problem he faces is in the last 5 overs of ODIs and T20s.

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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5 hours ago, express bowling said:

1)  Many of the top SRs you have quoted are Plate League batsmen playing against much inferior bowling attacks.

2)  SR of batters in 50 over games depend on the roles given to batters too. Many high SR batters are those who bat either in the lower middle order or are used as pinch hitters. Gill's role is neither of the two.

3) Anmolpreet played just 3 games. Sample is too small.  Gurkeerat usually comes to bat later in the innings and his role is to slog. Not really comparable to Gill.

4) Main point is ... having watched Gill in many many matches ... he usually scores very quickly. Only problem he faces is in the last 5 overs of ODIs and T20s.

1. Only 5 of those top 10 batsmen play in Plate group. Of the remaining 5, four have strike rate of 90+ out of which two have strike rate of 100+. The only one of those five with a strike rate of less than 90 is Shubman Gill who had a strike rate of 83.93.

 

2. I mentioned Anmolpreet Singh and Gautam Gambhir. Both of them are top order batsmen and not middle order or pinch hitters, as is Abhinav Mukund who opens for Tamil Nadu and scored the most runs in that tournament.

 

3. For a more like for like comparison, Anmolpreet Singh scored his highest score in that tournament of 141 off 114 balls in a game against Goa. In the same match, Shubman Gill, who opened with Anmolpreet, scored 73 off 88. In an innings where everyone else from the Punjab team played with a strike of 100+, Shubman Gill scored at a strike rate of 82.95.

 

Anmolpreet's other century in that tournament came in a chase against Karnataka where he scored 138 off 106 balls. Again in that same match, Gill, who opened with him, scored 77 off 93 balls at a strike rate of 82.79 while chasing 297.

 

4. Like the numbers above show, he's more suited for the No. 3 position where he can play the role of an accumulator, play himself in while others around him take the initiative of scoring more quickly. The No. 3 position would allow him to develop his game at the international level without the pressure of having to play outside of his comfort zone. No. 4 requires different skillsets which doesn't suit Gill's natural game right now.

 

Anyway, regardless of what we think, Gill himself has made it known that he prefers opening the innings than playing in the middle order.

Edited by TNAmarkFromIndia

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1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

1. Only 5 of those top 10 batsmen play in Plate group. Of the remaining 5, four have strike rate of 90+ out of which two have strike rate of 100+. The only one of those five with a strike rate of less than 90 is Shubman Gill who had a strike rate of 83.93.

 

2. I mentioned Anmolpreet Singh and Gautam Gambhir. Both of them are top order batsmen and not middle order or pinch hitters, as is Abhinav Mukund who opens for Tamil Nadu and scored the most runs in that tournament.

 

3. For a more like for like comparison, Anmolpreet Singh scored his highest score in that tournament of 141 off 114 balls in a game against Goa. In the same match, Shubman Gill, who opened with Anmolpreet, scored 73 off 88. In an innings where everyone else from the Punjab team played with a strike of 100+, Shubman Gill scored at a strike rate of 82.95.

 

Anmolpreet's other century in that tournament came in a chase against Karnataka where he scored 138 off 106 balls. Again in that same match, Gill, who opened with him, scored 77 off 93 balls at a strike rate of 82.79 while chasing 297.

 

4. Like the numbers above show, he's more suited for the No. 3 position where he can play the role of an accumulator, play himself in while others around him take the initiative of scoring more quickly. The No. 3 position would allow him to develop his game at the international level without the pressure of having to play outside of his comfort zone. No. 4 requires different skillsets which doesn't suit Gill's natural game right now.

 

Anyway, regardless of what we think, Gill himself has made it known that he prefers opening the innings than playing in the middle order.

 

 

As I said above, SR of batsmen in LO games often depend on the roles assigned to them. 

 

While playing for the Punjab in List-A matches, Gill had been given the anchor's role of playing through the innings if possible. Hence the slightly lowish SR this season.

 

While playing List-A for India-A, he has not been assigned the anchor's role.  

 

And the SRs of his last three 40+ innings  for India-A in List-A in the last few months are

 

77 runs st a SR of 173

69 runs at a SR of  95

46 runs at a SR of  98. 

 

And Gill has a SR of 76 at an average of 75 from 13 FC matches. This is tremendous and shows his ability to score really fast.

 

I don't think he would have any problem at No.4 in ODIs as he can rotate the strike and play spin  too. 

 

 

P.s -- This thread is about Dubey ... so. I will stop discussing Gill now.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

As I said above, SR of batsmen in LO games often depend on the roles assigned to them. 

While playing for the Punjab in List-A matches, Gill had been given the anchor's role of playing through the innings if possible. Hence the slightly lowish SR this season.

It's one thing to bat as an anchor for the team, it's another to play at a strike rate of 82 on a 350+ pitch or while chasing 297.

 

It requires game sense to know when it's time to accelerate, and that's crucial at No. 4 much more than at the top of the order. Like I said, he's not suited for No. 4.

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24 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

It's one thing to bat as an anchor for the team, it's another to play at a strike rate of 82 on a 350+ pitch or while chasing 297.

 

It requires game sense to know when it's time to accelerate, and that's crucial at No. 4 much more than at the top of the order. Like I said, he's not suited for No. 4.

 

No point derailing this thread about Dubey.

 

Let's discuss it in the Shubman Gill thread.

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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27 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Dubey deserves his chances .His first class record is far superior to that of Hardik. That being the case  & being a left hander,  it is disappointing  not to see him  in the Indian team as of now.

Hardik can bowl 135+ in FC matches and 140+ in LOIs when needed, Dubey still is mid to low 120s, needs to up it by another 5-6 kmph to be of  consistent int'l standards. 

 

Best thing is to play both in T20s (if only this TM has any vision). But guess these jokers do not prefer players with a care free attitude.

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Kudos to selectors n A team setup that they are playing Dubey in all format......the wayto develop any youngster is to make him play a lot of high quality cricket. This is an indication they have an eye on him.....hopefully he shud get a place in t20 asap....needs to be seen how good wud he be at international level

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On 9/18/2019 at 6:51 PM, express bowling said:

Dubey has to be considered as a specialist batsman who can bowl a bit.

 

He isn't an all-rounder or 5th bowler yet.  IMO, he is not competing with Hardik in LOIs for this reason. Can replace Kedar Jadhav.

Haven't seen him play. How does he compare with Hardik, Jadeja in terms of individual disciplines?

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12 minutes ago, RajBan said:

Haven't seen him play. How does he compare with Hardik, Jadeja in terms of individual disciplines?

 

Dubey is more of a batsman who bowls at bit.

 

He is a big hitter and a stroke player ... ideal for a No 6 in ODIs and T20s.  Have seen him brutally hit the really quick Nortje and fast-medium Jansen.  I am not that clear about his defensive game against pace. His consistency and hunger for runs have been impressive in the recent past.

 

His bowling is military-medium.  He can't be a 5th bowler like Hardik is, but can be a good 6th bowler in LOIs.

 

In a nutshell

 

LOI lower-middle order batting ranking ----

 

Hardik 

Dubey  (  But Dubey maybe more consistent  )

Jadeja

 

LOI bowling ranking ----

 

Jadeja

Hardik

...

...

Dubey

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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On 9/7/2019 at 6:51 PM, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

They would if those 2 medium-pace all-rounders can make the team on their batting alone.

Like I said, Dube shouldn't be considered as a replacement for Pandya if he can make the team on his batting alone. They can both play in the same XI. Dube at 6, Pandya at 7, two frontline pacers and two frontline spinners at No. 8-11.

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14 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Dubey is more of a batsman who bowls at bit.

 

He is a big hitter and a stroke player ... ideal for a No 6 in ODIs and T20s.  Have seen him brutally hit the really quick Nortje and fast-medium Jansen.  I am not that clear about his defensive game against pace. His consistency and hunger for runs have been impressive in the recent past.

 

His bowling is military-medium.  He can't be a 5th bowler like Hardik is, but can be a good 6th bowler in LOIs.

 

In a nutshell

 

LOI lower-middle order batting ranking ----

 

Hardik 

Dubey  (  But Dubey maybe more consistent  )

Jadeja

 

LOI bowling ranking ----

 

Jadeja

Hardik

...

...

Dubey

 

 

 

 

his bowling seems to be under-rated. his kind of bowlers can always escape with respectable figures if they are allowed to bowl in the relatively slower periods of 15 to 35 overs.. except for England, rest of the teams still see that period for consolidation and setting up the stage for last 10.  

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