Mohammed Shami passes yo-yo test; available for the Test series selection.

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

the last time he played in an ODI though it was after a long break.

 

Shami's  last 3 ODIs

 

0 for 33 in 10 overs.

 

4 for 48 in 10 overs.

 

0 for 62 in 10 overs when Australia scored 334.   That is, his ER was less than innings ER. 

 

If he gets a regular run in ODIs, he may occasionally go for runs but is a genuine wicket taker.

[Mosher]

Great that he's physically fit, we also have see in what mental space he is in now. This will be a good headache for the team management. This is a long series I think everyone will get a chance. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Mosher

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Shami's  last 3 ODIs

 

0 for 33 in 10 overs.

 

4 for 48 in 10 overs.

 

0 for 62 in 10 overs when Australia scored 334.   That is, his ER was less than innings ER. 

 

If he gets a regular run in ODIs, he may occasionally go for runs but is a genuine wicket taker.

i am only judging by how he bowls now. His bowling suited ODIs before but not anymore.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

when on song , no one is better then shami 

Baat whai ke machine kab garam hoti hia 

han vo machine tab garam hoti hai jab game haath se nikal chuka hota hai.

[Ankit_sharma03]

23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I am looking forward to Shami and Bumrah combo bowling in test matches in the next 2 years.

 

There 2 are potentially our best 2 all-condition pacers.

looking more forward to umesh, he looks in gr8 rhythem and he is damn good reverse and this time i feel reverse will play a role and he has been taking wkts with new ball to 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Great that he's physically fit, we also have see in what mental space he is in now. This will be a good headache for the team management. This is a long series I think everyone will get a chance. 

he shud be mentally charged up, also he hasnt played for long so shudnt even hold him self back

[Gollum]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

he is not a mystery spinner to be figured by video analysis and he has already been playing now for about 3 years. there are no mystery tricks up his sleeve. he just bowls fast and accurate that is his strength.  

Unorthodox action too is a strength for him like it was for Malinga in the initial years. Besides such bowlers are easier to face in tests where there is no pressure to score quick runs. 

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Likes of BK and Bumrah have upped their games quite a notch and Shami has not played ODIs a lot after 2015 WC. 

BK is a rubbish ODI bowler, Shami at his worst is better than BK at his best in this format. He hasn't played too many ODIs post 2015 WC but team management is partly to blame for that.  

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Unorthodox action too is a strength for him like it was for Malinga in the initial years. Besides such bowlers are easier to face in tests where there is no pressure to score quick runs. 

 

but Teams could never really figure out Malinga till he started struggling due to fitness and lost this pace. 

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Potentially yes but I am not yet sold out on Bumrah, have seen enough of Indian pacers looking impressive in initial stages only to fade out later. He will be figured out very soon courtesy video analysis, it is upto him to adapt himself to stay on top. 

 

Bumrah success is due to him combining accuracy with genuine pace and bounce and getting consistent seam movement. He is also an intelligent bowler who understands batter's weaknesses and learns fast. Add to that good yorkers and slower balls in LOIs.

 

When a pacer does that, there is not much to figure out from the opposition's point of view.

 

He has been playing for more than 30 months ... a long time to be figured out.  His success is not due to any mystery factor.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

BK is a rubbish ODI bowler, Shami at his worst is better than BK at his best in this format. He hasn't played too many ODIs post 2015 WC but team management is partly to blame for that.  

BK is one of the best death bowlers in the world and one of the most economical as well.   Shami has not played ODIs in years. So we are not sure what he brings now but whatever I have seen he has regressed as an LOI bowler and wont be the same force as he was before.

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

i am only judging by how he bowls now. His bowling suited ODIs before but not anymore.

 

We need someone to play atleast 10 ODIs on the trot before judging him. 

 

No one can perform optimally when he plays 1 of 2 games in 6 months, in a particular format.

[rkt.india]

Shami for me will stay an ordinary bowler overseas until he bowls some spells when it really mattered and win us the game.  Every time, we have toured overseas, he has flattered to deceive. Aus tour, England tour, SA, NZ everywhere.

[Mosher]

This is likely to the bowling attack. BK will be the 1st choice pacer based on his performance last time around. Ishant the 2nd pacer because of his "county experience"   and Shami/Bumrah/Umesh will fight it out for the 3rd pacer slot. Pandya the AR will be the 4th pacer.  I am hoping we go in with 4 frontline pacers -  Bk, Shami, Umesh and Bumrah. Kuldeep/Ashwin as the lone spinner. 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Mosher

[Mosher]

12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he shud be mentally charged up, also he hasnt played for long so shudnt even hold him self back

Hope he will be charged up. Need him to bowl with full intensity and not be up and down like we saw in SA. 

[Pollack]

And what if Ishant still starts in playing eleven....

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Shami for me will stay an ordinary bowler overseas until he bowls some spells when it really mattered and win us the game.  Every time, we have toured overseas, he has flattered to deceive. Aus tour, England tour, SA, NZ everywhere.

 

When Shami played those 4 away series in 2013-14 ...he was a rookie and within the first 5 months to 17 months of his test career.  Moreover, the team was in total disarray and there were no senior pacers to take responsibility ( Zak was a shadow of his past during SA 13 and NZ 14 ).

 

A bunch of rookie pacers can't do well overseas when the team is in disarray.  

 

Even the other young pacers' performances were adversely affected during those tours.

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah success is due to him combining accuracy with genuine pace and bounce and getting consistent seam movement. He is also an intelligent bowler who understands batter's weaknesses and learns fast. Add to that good yorkers and slower balls in LOIs.

 

When a pacer does that, there is not much to figure out from the opposition's point of view.

 

He has been playing for more than 30 months ... a long time to be figured out.  His success is not due to any mystery factor.

I am talking about test cricket, granted he is brilliant in the shorter formats. In tests some of his strengths will be negated and batsmen can afford to see him out and challenge his fitness, patience, perseverance, precision and mental tenacity...whole different ball game altogether. Besides he is unproven in tests outside SA, he may well repeat his magic in other places but we need to see him actually do that before placing him on a pedestal. 

 

Bounce...positive trait agreed 100%.

 

Accuracy...also needs to be supplemented by right radar. Ishant too is accurate but on the shorter side and 5th stump line. Radar varies from country to country, if he bowls SA length with great accuracy in Eng he will be taken to cleaners, even peak Steyn wasn't spared over there. Accuracy must work hand in hand with correct length/line, i.e. he needs to be adaptable. Adaptability is the toughest trait to master and I have seen even ATGs like Wasim, Ambrose, Steyn take time to figure out the right lengths to bowl. 

 

Pace... can he sustain it over 20 overs per day in a test match? And will his body break down at any stage? In ODIs/T20s it is easier to maintain intensity over 2-4 over spells. 

 

Seam movement...for now good but Ishant was even better when he came to the stage, Sreesanth too was excellent. Quicks losing their action/wrist position/seam position after initial burst is not unheard of, happens to the best. Bumrah to abhi baccha hai, long long way to go. 

 

Intelligent...yes in white ball cricket, test cricket demands long term strategy where a batsmen will have to be worked over a long spell/multiple spells, so unproven. Also excess chalaki will backfire in the longer format as happened with Ash (also Wasim Akram if you recall his career) in some of his earlier tests, need to be relentless more than super shrewd.

 

Yorkers, slower balls...not as effective in a format where batsmen will be happy to defend.

 

Unorthodox action...a big factor but gradually teams will get more comfy with it in test cricket, in T20s/ODIs it will take longer to decode as was the case with Malinga. 

 

[raki05]

37 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Likes of BK and Bumrah have upped their games quite a notch and Shami has not played ODIs a lot after 2015 WC. 

Not BK he might have improved his pace a bit but he doesn't have  wkt taking ability. He only gets wkt when batsmen go for hit. Umesh is good wkt taking option in starting over. So Umesh/Shami should be there in odi squad ahead of BK.

[Gollum]

26 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

but Teams could never really figure out Malinga till he started struggling due to fitness and lost this pace. 

Test cricket ki baat karte hai. 

24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

BK is one of the best death bowlers in the world and one of the most economical as well.   Shami has not played ODIs in years. So we are not sure what he brings now but whatever I have seen he has regressed as an LOI bowler and wont be the same force as he was before.

Don't confuse T20 with T50. T50 is played on pattas and Bhuvi isn't a strike bowler. Simply bowling good death overs thrice in 5 matches won't cut it any longer. I'd rather go to over 41 with Eng/Aus at 270/7 and no Bhuvi than 240/3 with BK's 3-4 overs at the death. In the former case at least there will be a fair chance to restrict them to under 320...modern day T50 has made defensive bowling obsolete. If you can't pick wickets, no matter how good you are defensively you will consistently concede 350+ scores, isn't that why Kuldeep/Chahal have replaced Ashwin/Jadeja? 

 

And how can you say 'whatever I have seen he has regressed as an LOI bowler and wont be the same force as he was before'? How many ODI matches has he played in the recent past that you can make a judgement? No T20/IPL reference please. 

 

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I am talking about test cricket, granted he is brilliant in the shorter formats. In tests some of his strengths will be negated and batsmen can afford to see him out and challenge his fitness, patience, perseverance, precision and mental tenacity...whole different ball game altogether. Besides he is unproven in tests outside SA, he may well repeat his magic in other places but we need to see him actually do that before placing him on a pedestal. 

 

Bounce...positive trait agreed 100%.

 

Accuracy...also needs to be supplemented by right radar. Ishant too is accurate but on the shorter side and 5th stump line. Radar varies from country to country, if he bowls SA length with great accuracy in Eng he will be taken to cleaners, even peak Steyn wasn't spared over there. Accuracy must work hand in hand with correct length/line, i.e. he needs to be adaptable. Adaptability is the toughest trait to master and I have seen even ATGs like Wasim, Ambrose, Steyn take time to figure out the right lengths to bowl. 

 

Pace... can he sustain it over 20 overs per day in a test match? And will his body break down at any stage? In ODIs/T20s it is easier to maintain intensity over 2-4 over spells. 

 

Seam movement...for now good but Ishant was even better when he came to the stage, Sreesanth too was excellent. Quicks losing their action/wrist position/seam position after initial burst is not unheard of, happens to the best. Bumrah to abhi baccha hai, long long way to go. 

 

Intelligent...yes in white ball cricket, test cricket demands long term strategy where a batsmen will have to be worked over a long spell/multiple spells, so unproven. Also excess chalaki will backfire in the longer format as happened with Ash (also Wasim Akram if you recall his career) in some of his earlier tests, need to be relentless more than super shrewd.

 

Yorkers, slower balls...not as effective in a format where batsmen will be happy to defend.

 

Unorthodox action...a big factor but gradually teams will get more comfy with it in test cricket, in T20s/ODIs it will take longer to decode as was the case with Malinga. 

 

 

I agree with your point ...  any bowler has to be seen over a decent period of time and in different conditions, in a particular format, before  calling him really good or bad.

 

Bumrah, the test bowler, will have to go through the test of time as well.

 

But, a few points are there which give us hope.

 

He did sustain really high speeds of 138 k to 148 k in all 3 test matches in almost every spell.  That gives us hope regarding his speed sustainence unless there is a major injury ( but that risk remains with every pacer ).

 

He has been bowling those top of off stump to top of 5th stump deliveries for the last year or so, in both tests and opening spells of ODIs  ( after he decided to really work hard for a test berth ).  This bodes well for his test career.

 

He has developed this delivery which moves away marginally from the off stump or 4th stump line.  Combining it intelligently with his incoming balls.

 

His bounce should always be there.

Edited July 6, 2018 by express bowling