Non-religious countries experience greater economic growth, study finds

[chewy]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/religion-economic-development-wealth-gdp-bristol-university-a8453386.html

 

 

A link between religion and wealth has been known about for decades, as researchers have observed that the poorest nations tend to be highly religious.

While the new research does not demonstrate a causal link between lack of godliness and economic development, it suggests that wealth is not in itself the cause of secularisation.

"Our findings show that secularisation precedes economic development and not the other way around,” said Damian Ruck, the study's lead researcher at the University of Bristol.

“However, we suspect the relationship is not directly causal. We noticed that secularisation only leads to economic development when it is accompanied by a greater respect for individual rights.”

[asterix]

Yes... take the example of China...

[Tibarn]

It's always fun to read a social science article   

 

The linked article itself says

Quote

While the new research does not demonstrate a causal link between lack of godliness and economic development, it suggests that wealth is not in itself the cause of secularisation.

1) Create a bombastic title to grab eyeballs, then walks back instead of making any conclusion 

 

Also

Quote

“However, we suspect the relationship is not directly causal. We noticed that secularisation only leads to economic development when it is accompanied by a greater respect for individual rights.”

2) Basically Capitalism(greater individual economic freedom) = greater economic development.  What a ground-breaking discovery.  Like anyone who understands basic economics doesn't already know that.   

 

I guess some in India should learn this since we have so many socialists/communists in our midst, but even the Euros/Americans are starting to have them as well (it's no wonder the relative power of Euros/Americans are on the decline, socialism = cancer).   

 

Quote

However, the researchers conceded that more work is required to test this conclusion.

"Very often secularisation is indeed accompanied by a greater tolerance of homosexuality, abortion, divorce etc,” said Mr Ruck.

“But that isn't to say that religious countries can't become prosperous. Religious institutions need to find their own way of modernising and respecting the rights of individuals."

3) The "research" implies that, for example, greater tolerance of homosexuality will lead to economic growth, via respecting the rights of individuals, yet doesn't show how exactly if tomorrow major groups in some poor countries stopped persecuting homosexuals they would get richer.

 

Does anyone with a brain really think that say Afghanistan will suddenly start skyrocketing in growth rate if they abandon their typical bigotry vs homosexuals. Only a social science article can produce such drivel. 

 

Now from the research paper itself comes:

Quote

For indices of cultural values, we use data from the European Values Survey (EVS) and the World Values Survey (WVS) since 1990.

 4) They themselves admit to using data since the 1990s only, not even 3 decades 

 

The EVS and WVS only have data since the 1980s  

http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/page/surveys.html

http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSDocumentationWVL.jsp

 

So basically, in the last 3-4 decades economic growth has been associated with Secular countries, essentially Europe and North America, ie the countries that top the list on all measures of capitalism, while other countries like India, where geniuses like Nehruji promoted socialism have traditionally had a minuscule rate of growth despite the abundance of secularism we have. 

 

In reality 

The Middle East/North Africa, and the West are two of the highest income regions in the world, despite their governments being less secular than Latin American or Asian countries. The reality is that good economic policies, quality natural resources, and technological innovation are the key to economic growth.  

 

 

Anyone that actually knows history knows how rubbish this article is. Europe, and later the entire West, has been consistently the wealthiest part of the world (per capita) since at least around the 1700s. This is the exact period where these same Euros were committing genocide on non-believers and converting infidels across the globe (along with colonizing the vast swathes of land on the planet). Why did they get rich? "They" invented the key technologies of the last several centuries such as: the printing press, steam engine, assembly line. etc 

 

[FischerTal]

Middle eastern oil rich nations...........

[MechEng]

Interesting, how did secularism became being non religious? Wasn't secularism all about being in harmony with all religions instead of complete atheism?

[Muloghonto]

8 hours ago, MechEng said:

Interesting, how did secularism became being non religious? Wasn't secularism all about being in harmony with all religions instead of complete atheism?

secularism has always been non-religious, with Indian secularism being the only exception. Secularism = seperation of church and state.

Ie, the state machinery is not beholden to any religious ideal for making its laws or running its business. In multi-religious nations, it means making the government machinery atheist. The only exception are religious holidays, mostly due to practical reasons (and that everyone loves a paid day off, so nobody is gonna uproot a paid day off). 

[Stradlater]

10 hours ago, MechEng said:

Interesting, how did secularism became being non religious? Wasn't secularism all about being in harmony with all religions instead of complete atheism?

There are different models of secularism such as French, American and Indian one.

French one is completely atheistic while Indian model is somewhat similar to what you wrote above.

[Clarke]

An interesting book on the topic by a right wing economist, Niall Ferguson

 

 

 

 

 

It suggests 6 factors that contributed to economic growth & military strength:

 

competition

scientific revolution

security of private property

Medicine 

evolution of the consumer society

Protestant work ethic

 

Reference: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/civilization-the-west-and-the-rest-by-niall-ferguson-2238079.html

 

 

[chewy]

I think title is misleading, and it’s not about being non-religious but just respectful of others and non-interference of religion in National governance (incl law & justice)

Being non-religious, one can point to the total failure of Soviet Union and Mao’s China

 

“Proper” secularism probably has some credence, but as overall package not just wealth, I.e sociological issues - gender equality, low crime, freedom of speech, violence against children and women, corruption etc.

 

 

 

[Tibarn]

5 hours ago, Clarke said:

An interesting book on the topic by a right wing economist, Niall Ferguson

 

 

 

 

 

It suggests 6 factors that contributed to economic growth & military strength:

 

competition

scientific revolution

security of private property

Medicine 

evolution of the consumer society

Protestant work ethic

 

Reference: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/civilization-the-west-and-the-rest-by-niall-ferguson-2238079.html

 

 

IMO the protestant work ethic is overblown. Only some countries in Europe are even Protestant(England, Netherlands ), while many are Catholic (France, Spain, Portugal) and something like Germany is balanced between the two. However, all of Europe seems to have developed simultaneously, whether Protestant or Catholic, which implies to me neither was the basis of the development over the other. 

 

The first 4 on the list I definitely agree with though.