nsareen Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 If you look around the world teams, the fast bowlers can tonk the bowl & bat really well at times, for e.g. broad, russell, holder, faheem, hasan ali, plunkett, southee, anderson, starc, johnson, even malinga could give it a stick. It's just that after Srinath, i've not seen an indian bowler who had the skills to tonk the ball. Agarkar had the skills only in domestic not in international cricket. e.g. Ishant, bhuvi, bumrah, kaul. Pandya is more of a batsmen who can bowl so not counted in this list of pure bowlers. Even in the upcoming one's apart from Shardul Thakur no-one has the body language to be aggressive & hold the bat. I believe there has something to do with the coaching, that these bowlers are not groomed to use improve the batting skills. Thoughts? Upcoming bowlers like Mavi / Nagarkoti have some promise but the wider group is pretty disappointing. Link to comment
raki05 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Have you heard of Shami and Umesh, they have test fifty as well. And when they play odi they can tonk the ball really hard. However the kauls,bumrah et al are dud, agreed. chewy, Mosher, Tibarn and 6 others 1 8 Link to comment
Tibarn Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 BK looks like a decent test bowling-allrounder, at least at times. Shami and Umesh are sloggers. Ishant is a blocker. Bumrah is a proper tail-ender. The only one who looks timid ever is Bumrah, but he has only just started his test career, so he will get better. A real timid Indian bowler with the bat was Zak. Sometimes it seemed he would just throw his wicket away by mindless slogging, just so he wouldn't have to be on the pitch any longer. Moochad and beetle 2 Link to comment
chewy Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Likes of Bumrah, Kaul and Ishant ain’t got muscle power to tonk...they puny Umesh, Shami, Shardul are well built where mishits can go for fours and sixes and besides many named in OP are considered all rounders..Russel, Holder, Johnson, Broad (was, now rubbish) raki05 and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1 Link to comment
nsareen Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 The indian spinners are more aggressive when it comes to batting than the fast bowlers,like harbhajan, jadeja, ashwin, patel all can bat & can be dominating too & the fast bowlers can only slog or be timid, they can't dominate. This needs to change if we want to be a better all round team. every one in the team needs to bat & be dominating when required. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Vk1 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 This is a major issue.. you cant have bowlers in Odis who are absolute duds..atleast not at 9 & 10.. Shardul Thakur should focus more on his batting and try to become a Coulter nile / Ben cutting kind of bowler who can hit big consistently UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Pehle bowling to theek se karne do fir batting ki umeed rakhenge unse. Edited July 21, 2018 by Straight Drive UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Not wise to put pressure of runs on specialist bowlers. Didn't they do their job well in SA. Let them concentrate on bowling. That is what they must be accountable for. Bhuvi is one of the best batsman amongst specialist bowlers. Even performs as good as specialist batsmen of some teams in tough conditions for batting. Edited July 21, 2018 by Straight Drive UrmiSinhaRay and beetle 1 1 Link to comment
Vilander Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Shami and Umesh are not timid at all. Ishant blocks a lot and bowler has to take wicket. Bhuv is certain conditions is actually as assured as Ashwin so borderline allrounder. diehardpacer, beetle and UrmiSinhaRay 1 2 Link to comment
nsareen Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 All points said above are valid, we need specialist bowlers , but the trend around the world has changed, bowlers can dominate with the rbat too..Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
nsareen Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Shami and Umesh are not timid at all. Ishant blocks a lot and bowler has to take wicket. Bhuv is certain conditions is actually as assured as Ashwin so borderline allrounder. Bhuvi can't take on fast bowling, he can hold his bat against spinners though.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, nsareen said: Bhuvi can't take on fast bowling, he can hold his bat against spinners though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Did you watch his three fifty's versus England test series in England. And the ODI Knock he played with Dhoni at other end. Ashwin and Bhuvi are the best batsmen amongst bowlers of all teams. Maybe only Philander comes close to those two. Edited July 21, 2018 by Straight Drive Vilander, beetle, diehardpacer and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment
nsareen Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Did you watch his three fifty's versus England test series in England. And the ODI Knock he played with Dhoni at other end. I've but when I say take on fast bowling I meant dominate fast bowlers, hit them for boundaries when they feel to, even sixes, I've not seen bhivi hit sixes to fast bowler, how would you compare bhivi with the likes of Johnson or broad or Holder or Braithwaite or faheem ashraf the new guy, or even pat cummins or starc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, nsareen said: I've but when I say take on fast bowling I meant dominate fast bowlers, hit them for boundaries when they feel to, even sixes, I've not seen bhivi hit sixes to fast bowler, how would you compare bhivi with the likes of Johnson or broad or Holder or Braithwaite or faheem ashraf the new guy, or even pat cummins or starc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk In tests there is no need to take on bowlers. Bhuvi and Ashwin have test batting average of 22 and 30 respectively which is very good from bowlers at international level. Even though batting SR of bowlers do not matter in tests, Bhuvi and Ashwin have batting SR of 45 and 54 respectively which is very good for a bowler. SR of 54 means that when Ashwin wants he can score higher than that as that is only an average SR. In some innings he can bat at SR over 100 like he does in few ODI and T20 innings. His ODI SR is 85 so it's not like he can't score run a ball in some innings. I think no other team has two bowlers with this batting average. Faheem and Brathwaite has just started test career. Even Holder has not played half the tests as Ashwin. Moreover they are not specialist bowlers to compare with Bhuvi or Ashwin. If one wants to compare Faheem Ashraf, Brathwaite or Holder then a like for like all rounder comparison with someone from Indian team would be all rounder Hardik Pandya, not Ashwin or Bhuvi. Would you name any cricketer whose specialist skill is bowling in tests but has better test batting average than Ashwin or for that matter even Bhuvi. Would be even better if you post their test batting averages in comparison. Player with bowling as primary skill - Test batting AVG Ashwin - 30 Philander - 25 Starc - 22 Bhuvi - 22 Cummins - 20 We have one bowler who has best test batting average amongst all specialist bowlers. Bhuvi with batting average of 22 is also someone with good batting average. So we have the top 2 batsmen in bowling departments. Even Aussie pair of Starc and Cummins are second to our two bowlers. Edited July 21, 2018 by Straight Drive beetle, Vilander and UrmiSinhaRay 1 2 Link to comment
Vilander Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 10 hours ago, nsareen said: I've but when I say take on fast bowling I meant dominate fast bowlers, hit them for boundaries when they feel to, even sixes, I've not seen bhivi hit sixes to fast bowler, how would you compare bhivi with the likes of Johnson or broad or Holder or Braithwaite or faheem ashraf the new guy, or even pat cummins or starc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk in tests preservation of wicket is most important after that scoing runs. Bhuv can do both. beetle 1 Link to comment
beetle Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 In tests, bhuvi can be considered a bowling allrounder . In Lois , he does not have the fire power to hit out that is required at the end. At best he can be expected to rotate strike and get the big hitter on strike. If early wkts fall down cheaply in odi's , then they should try sending bhuvi ahead of Pandya to try and steady the innings and save Pandya for the big hitting later on. In T20...bhuvi is pretty useless with the bat. Ankit_sharma03 and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1 Link to comment
Clarke Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 They don't consume much red meat UrmiSinhaRay and sriniwu 1 1 Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Having said that we have two best batsman amongst bowlers in tests (Bhuvi and Ashwin), we will miss batting of both of them this test series against England. Bhuvi is injured and Ashwin might not make playing 11 of few tests. In a way it is good. It makes the specialist batsmen accountable for runs. Think the absence of lower order runs from Bhuvi and Ashwin will put the specialist batters in their right place.They have masked the batting issues overseas to some extent due to their contribution with bat. Edited July 22, 2018 by Straight Drive beetle and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1 Link to comment
beetle Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Clarke said: They don't consume much red meat Kadhi chawal bowlers... UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Switchblade Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 hours ago, UnknownGenius said: Deepak Chahar Shardul Thakur KM Asif Can all bat and bowl. Can hit down the order. Ok not sure of Asif but other two are proven match winners with bowl and bat and won the most recent major trophy Thakur played the decider but did nothing apart from one wicket went for plenty the winning mentality was missing . UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
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