Alam_dar Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Some lessons from my point of view. Imran is getting support from all types of groups in Pakistan. His vote bank consists of: * Punjabi,Pashtoon Baluchi, Sindhi, Urdu Speaking migrants ... * Barailvi, Deobandi, Shias, Ahlehadith/Wahabi ... * Even there is some support from right wing religious parties and people too. * But at the same time Liberals have also been supporting Imran Khan. Getting support from two opposing segments at the same time is fine art of politics. While under BJP, the Indian society is becoming "polarized". Not all segments of the society are with BJP, while some showing extreme opposition to BJP. Imran has very clear edge here over Modi. Imran is a very clever person and strategist and politician. He learnt that success could come if he stays in the "middle" and from here some times he moves little bit on the "right" and sometimes little bit on the "left". === I earlier wrote here that if would be best for India: * If BJP thinks it is a non corrupt party, and it has the ability to win elections ONLY on the bases of Progressive Policies, then BJP should shun the idea of using Hindutva policies in order to get the votes. * BJP should show it's soft image and try to land somewhere in the centre. From here it could move to little right if it still wishes so. * This will immensely help BJP to make inroads into all the segments of the Indian society and get their true support. Ultimately it will help in solving a lot of problems in India. * Polarization is neither good for BJP nor for India. BJP will get no benefit if it's perception becomes the same of RSS and it's being held responsible for all the lynching and wrong doings of the RW extremist Hindus. Clarke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Some lessons from my point of view. Imran is getting support from all types of groups in Pakistan. His vote bank consists of: * Punjabi,Pashtoon Baluchi, Sindhi, Urdu Speaking migrants ... * Barailvi, Deobandi, Shias, Ahlehadith/Wahabi ... * Even there is some support from right wing religious parties and people too. * But at the same time Liberals have also been supporting Imran Khan. Getting support from two opposing segments at the same time is fine art of politics. While under BJP, the Indian society is becoming "polarized". Not all segments of the society are with BJP, while some showing extreme opposition to BJP. Imran has very clear edge here over Modi. Imran is a very clever person and strategist and politician. He learnt that success could come if he stays in the "middle" and from here some times he moves little bit on the "right" and sometimes little bit on the "left". === I earlier wrote here that if would be best for India: * If BJP thinks it is a non corrupt party, and it has the ability to win elections ONLY on the bases of Progressive Policies, then BJP should shun the idea of using Hindutva policies in order to get the votes. * BJP should show it's soft image and try to land somewhere in the centre. From here it could move to little right if it still wishes so. * This will immensely help BJP to make inroads into all the segments of the Indian society and get their true support. Ultimately it will help in solving a lot of problems in India. * Polarization is neither good for BJP nor for India. BJP will get no benefit if it's perception becomes the same of RSS and it's being held responsible for all the lynching and wrong doings of the RW extremist Hindus. Problem with that idea is division of votes on other lines like caste. It's not simple religious line v development line. Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Ur liberals support Taliban Khan ? Tells everyone how far right wing ur country & politics are. BJP, the "right wing" party is not interfering with the Supreme court in the pursuit of accepting homosexuality as normal human behavior. Come back with the comparison when ur Taliban Khan & PTI can do the same in ur country. asterix, Turning_track, DHONI_FANN and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Clarke said: Ur liberals support Taliban Khan ? Tells everyone how far right wing ur country & politics are. BJP, the "right wing" party is not interfering with the Supreme court in the pursuit of accepting homosexuality as normal human behavior. Come back with the comparison when ur Taliban Khan & PTI can do the same in ur country. Unfortunately, we are not living in a perfect world. Liberals do hate Taliban Khan, but what are the alternatives for the Liberals in Pakistan? Let us see: 1. We have Peoples Party which has been considered a liberal party. But this liberal party is perhaps the most corrupt party in Pakistan. Imran Khan is defeating them on the bases of his non corrupt politics. 2. We have Nawaz Sharif, but for sure his party is more extremist than Imran Khan. Nawaz party is the legacy of Zia-ul-Haq basically. 3. MQM of Karachi. They are also liberal, but they limited themselves only to Karachi by playing the Mahajir card. And there are other problems too with this party where it has relations with the weapons and Mafias. I wished there would have been any moderate, liberal, non-corrupt party in Pakistan which could have offered a substitute for PTI. I see both liberals and religions people abusing Imran Khan, but somehow still they end up voting for him. We have one person Jibran Nasir. I just hope one day he becomes the Prime Minister of Pakistan, and I see all liberal votes going to him. Note his name ... Jibran Nasir. === Unfortunately it is also not enough for BJP to accept the decision of SC regarding homos. Even Muslims of India had to accept this decision and they didn't protested against it. But it would be best if BJP could move more in the right, so that it could get support from all/many segments of the society, so that it could unite whole Indian society. Edited July 28, 2018 by Alam_dar sensible-indian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: Problem with that idea is division of votes on other lines like caste. It's not simple religious line v development line. I believe if problem of religion could be come over through the progressive development policies, then we could also hope that problem of cast could also be overcome. Sometimes I wonder how big is the problem of caste in India that it even surpasses the problem of religion. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Too early to compare... PTI is just starting on National level governance. IK has a long way to go to even start contemplating comparison with Modi... Maybe a better time to compare once IK “completes” his first term... Actually theres no point to compare. Both countries are completely different and hence the governance too. One country has Army taking major policy decisions and controls the outcome of elections where as another has more credible institutions. No comparisons at all... Switchblade and Alam_dar 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 @ the comparison... Switchblade and adi B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Maybe Imran khan needs to focus on winning Punjab outright.Modi got a majority. Imran did not. There is no comparison Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 47 minutes ago, asterix said: Too early to compare... PTI is just starting on National level governance. IK has a long way to go to even start contemplating comparison with Modi... Maybe a better time to compare once IK “completes” his first term... Actually theres no point to compare. Both countries are completely different and hence the governance too. One country has Army taking major policy decisions and controls the outcome of elections where as another has more credible institutions. No comparisons at all... You are right there is no comparison about the institutions. Therefore, I focused only on the support among the people. It is clear that MQM is limited to Karachi only. People's party is limited to Sindh only. Nawaz League is limited to Punjab only. While Imran Khan has support in almost whole of Pakistan. It may be that Imran Khan is not winning the majority seats in Punjab, but the other side of the story is this that he is everywhere in Punjab no. 2 with very few difference of votes. If we count votes overall Pakistan, or if we had a Presidential System, then Imran khan would have won it easily. Imran Khan is tilted towards right wing. He sold his principles for the votes. I don't like him. But I could not deny that he is the only non corrupt politician among the big parties, and for sure he will rise sooner or later due to this reason. It is same that BJP rose while it was non corrupt/less corrupt as compared to Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 the problem is Imran khan is number 2 in the assemblies of Sindh (a distant second) and Punjab (a close second) which make up 85% of the population of Pakistan. So this claim that everybody has voted for him does not stand up. When Modi won in 2014, BJP was the largest party in UP Maharashtra and Bihar the three most populous states. Secondly the biggest give away of the nature of elections in Pakistan is that turnout actually dipped. This is cause the very institutions did not allow PML(N) voters to vote despite there being long lines at the polling station. When Modi won in 2014 there was a 8-10% rise in turnout. The tale of these turnouts in both elections tells you all what you need to know about mandate. Imran khan maybe an honest man. But he struck a deal with the army to be PM. Alam_dar, asterix, sandeep and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 and as far as the BJP goes. Since 2014 they have won most elections than they have lost. So whatever strategy they are employing is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 hours ago, G_B_ said: Imran khan maybe an honest man. But he struck a deal with the army to be PM. I think Establishment has made the case of IK weaker by supporting him. Pakistanis got no other option than IK at the end while Nawaz and PPP are both corrupt. Even the educated Pakistanis voting for IK due to this reason. But due to the establishment, now many People have become deadly against IK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Imran is seen as an army stooge so let him first show that he can take decisions on key matters independently Edited July 28, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stradlater Posted July 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2018 Saw This pic doing rounds on twitter. Gollum, zen, asterix and 7 others 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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G_B_ Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 51 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: I think Establishment has made the case of IK weaker by supporting him. Pakistanis got no other option than IK at the end while Nawaz and PPP are both corrupt. Even the educated Pakistanis voting for IK due to this reason. But due to the establishment, now many People have become deadly against IK. Mahatma Gandhi was not corrupt. But his economic ideas were just terrible. What Pakistan needs is economic reforms. Your tax to GDP ratio for example is low. So if Imran can deliver those reforms alongside being not corrupt then fair enough. This is assuming he lasts 5 years. The army had backed Nawaz at one point in the past. Past experience tells me army will not allow a power base to develop. Alam_dar and sandeep 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakistan Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Clarke said: Ur liberals support Taliban Khan ? Tells everyone how far right wing ur country & politics are. BJP, the "right wing" party is not interfering with the Supreme court in the pursuit of accepting homosexuality as normal human behavior. Come back with the comparison when ur Taliban Khan & PTI can do the same in ur country. Does right or left even matter when people are not getting bread two times a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakistan Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Mahatma Gandhi was not corrupt. But his economic ideas were just terrible. What Pakistan needs is economic reforms. Your tax to GDP ratio for example is low. So if Imran can deliver those reforms alongside being not corrupt then fair enough. This is assuming he lasts 5 years. The army had backed Nawaz at one point in the past. Past experience tells me army will not allow a power base to develop. They gave birth to him. Now they are neutral so Nawaz crying rigging. This is the guy who is used to playing with his own umpires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, Pakistan said: Does right or left even matter when people are not getting bread two times a day? Do u practice abstinence coz there's someone not getting the food they need ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 I hope people realise that reason for this post is not Imran Khan. He may have many issues, many problems, many failures, but these are irrelevant. The main reason for this topic is Universal Lesson i.e. a non corrupt, progressive and development oriented centre BJP would be very beneficial for India. While at moment BJP has to carry the burden of RW extremists in form of lynching and others, which is not letting BJP to make true inroads among the other segments of the society. Please ponder upon it. Clarke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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