sandeep Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, coffee_rules said: This one.. Kailash Temple at Ellora is magnificent. Made me really angry to see the destruction and defacing of such an exquisite human achievement by invaders, simply due to ignorance and bigotry. velu and coffee_rules 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Sun temple, Gujarat The geometric lines of the water tank in front of the sun temple are amazing. The temple itself lost a lot of its grandeur due to invaders hacking off the top of the dome for looting the gold. And folks around the temple claim that the idol housed in the temple had a jewel embedded in the forehead that would reflect light on specific spots depending on the equinox... Quality carvings around the exterior as well. Not too far is the "Rani ki Vaav" in Patan - a stepwell that is remarkably well-preserved in spite of being carved out of sandstone - thanks to being buried and forgotten until quite recently. When you see the carvings at Rani ki Vaav, you begin to realize how magnificent the original carvings must be, even those that have eroded due to time, or have been hacked away by invaders. I was able to go to both places on the same day-trip - one of the few opportunities that I've gotten to visit such sites in India. Thanks for posting the picture! coffee_rules, velu and Gollum 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Stradlater said: Also @velu @Gollum @sandeep it's not just limited to Temples. I don't know if you guys have ever seen the forts of Rajasthan , imo they represent the epitome of Indian craftsmanship. The buildings inside them with fine intricate carvings, majestic features and brilliant use of colour gives the whole place a magical feeling. The fort of Jaiselmer is situated in such a desolation that it still baffles me how they managed to erect such a splendor in a grim place like that and that too in the 11th century!! And not just forts , the havelis of marwari Baniyas from Shekhawati and Marwar region are so exquisitely alluring that you would feel enamored by the whole feeling. My village has countless such havelis and tourists from far flung places such as France and Germany regularly visit to view them. Yes, Rajasthan is a treasure trove of architecture. I would love to go there on my next trip to India. Stradlater and velu 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, sandeep said: Kailash Temple at Ellora is magnificent. Made me really angry to see the destruction and defacing of such an exquisite human achievement by invaders, simply due to ignorance and bigotry. Forget invaders, by taking over these temples ASI has left it open for modern Indian visitors to deface these temples. Gollum and velu 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBN Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Perhaps one of the few ancient architectures remaining in punjab region is the Katas Raj Temples in chakwal, punjab (modern day pak) 1875 overview of katas raj Photos: Nefer Sehgal Quote 1500 years of our history: Enter the Katas Raj temples Nefer SehgalUpdated Jul 30, 2016 12:36pm Spreading its beauty near Chakwal in Punjab province of Pakistan, the most reverenced among all the temples are the Katas Raj Temples. In a heaven like surrounding, complex of temples stands in homage to the deities of Hindu mythology. The Katas site houses the Satgraha or seven temples, a gathering of seven old temple, remains of a Buddhist stupa, a couple of medieval sanctuaries, havelis and some as the newly built sanctuaries, scattered around a lake considered sacred by Hindus. source Edited July 30, 2018 by PBN velu and Stradlater 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just now, PBN said: Perhaps one of the few ancient architectures remaining in punjab region is the Katas Raj Temples in chakwal, punjab (modern day pak) Photos: Nefer Sehgal Nothing in our side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBN Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Kafirkot, KPK Quote Locating Kafirkot We were driving on the edge of a barren mountain. It was a narrow road and the traffic was thin. A few mud houses covered with thatched roofs were interspersed on the road. Young mountain children wearing long skirts were playing along the way, oblivious to the hazards of the oncoming traffic. Occasionally we would cross a group of gypsies traveling West in search of a cooler summer with the winter season headed to its conclusion. Most of these were Balochi gypsies, carrying everything they owned on their beautiful tall camels. The men and the women walked along the road while the children sat on the top of the camels, their blue-green eyes piercing us with disdain for our sedentary lives. As a child I recall my eyes judging them for their perpetual movement. Carrying the bias of the entire settled civilization on my shoulders I used to feel a disdain for these nomadic communities whose entire worldview was different from mine. Being able to look beyond my prejudice today I could admire the elaborate dresses of the women with their colorful borders, and the ethnic caps of the men studded with glasswork. I was accompanied by my photographer friend Rida Arif, my wife Anam and my mentor Iqbal Qaiser. “I want to become a gypsy,” suggested Rida. It was an idea that resonated with me. The concept of spending one’s entire life on the move has a charm. I imagine a life unburdened by the compulsion of making a living. No alarm clocks, no 9-5. The international border, a sacred line in the modern iconography of nationalism doesn’t exist for them On our right was the River Indus, the lifeline of the Indus civilization. It was snaking through the plains of the Punjab. “When Indus is a river in Pakistan than why does India derive its name from the Indus?” said Iqbal Qaiser. I smiled politely acknowledging that I had registered what he had said without adding anything more. I wasn’t exactly in the mood for having a conversation. I was enjoying the drive. But what he said was similar to what I was thinking. Having spent the night at my uncle’s house in the city of Koniya the four of us had left after breakfast to see the ruins of ancient temples not far from the city. Koniya is a small city in the district of Mianwali, which was earlier part of the Bannu district. In 1901, when the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa was carved out of Punjab, Mianwali was made part of Punjab and given the status of an independent district. Police at a security post stopped us to enquire about our whereabouts just before we reached the bridge on the top of Chashma Barrage with the reservoir of water on one side and the river on the other. The administrative authorities change hands at this point, hence the vigilance. We were now heading into the province of KPK and as we exited from the bridge I noticed an equally eager security check post, this time composed of KPK police officials in blue sweaters. There was nothing in the geography of the land or the attitudes of the people that ushered our journey from Punjab to KPK. It was exactly the same. However in my mental map we had crossed an important boundary, into a foreign territory away from the protection of the security of Punjab and into the land of mayhem, torn by acts of terrorism and counter-terrorism. “Is it even safe to be in these mountains?” I wanted to ask our companions but was too embarrassed to. The embarrassment came not from admitting to others that I felt unsafe in KPK but from the self-realization that all it took for me to feel unsafe was an imagined boundary that has absolutely no significance but administrative demarcation. In another car we were being led by a group of locals from Koniya. For them this part of the land which belonged to KPK was also as much their “local” area as was the land on the side of Punjab. In their understanding of boundaries, maps and borders there was no division of the piece of land that they call their hometown. Riding on these barren roads I reflected on the arbitrariness of boundaries and borders. For these gypsies who have been traversing these mountains for thousands of years, finding refuge in the warmth of the plains of Punjab during the winters and then perching in the comfort of the mountains during the winters, this division between Punjab and KPK does not exist. Some of them, along with their animals, would continue walking to Afghanistan. The international border, a sacred line in the modern iconography of nationalism just doesn’t exist for them. The vast reservoir of the lake created by the Chasma barrage was visible from the height that we were on. This is also the season when a lot of migratory birds that have traveled from cold places like Serbia start heading back. For now they were comfortably playing around in the water. Like human gypsies, Serbia, Russia, Mianwali, Pakistan, Punjab, KPK, are all one land to them. Their entire existence, like that of the gypsies, is a story of the defiance of these entities. Our guides driving in front of us stopped without warning on the side of the road. Zaheer, a cousin of my uncle’s with whom we were staying at Koniya, got out of the car and asked a man who was standing in a field next to the road if Kafirkot was at the top of the mountain. There was a track leading to the top of the mountain from here which eventually got lost within the mountains. There was a group of boys standing at the top of this mountain staring down at us. From here we could only see their silhouettes. “I think you’ve left Kafirkot way behind,” suggested the Pathan man. “He doesn’t know anything. Ask those villagers,” suggested my uncle, while the man he was talking about stood right next to him. “Yeah do that,” he suggested. “I am a traveler myself so I am not the best person to ask for the address.” Zaheer walking on a small path that divided one agricultural field from another headed towards an isolated house in the middle of the fields. After a while he returned confirming for us that Kafirkot was on the top of the mountain. Leaving our cars on the side of the road we started climbing. Kafirkot literally means a fort of infidels. One can understand the origins of its name. We were going to the top to see the ancient temples that existed here at the time when Islam spread as the dominant religion around these parts, and these abandoned ancient structures which must once have been the pride of this civilization became symbols of infidels – hence Kafirkot. The climb to the top was steep but the path made out of rocks was sturdily built. After a trek of about fifteen minutes the first signs of the fort appeared – a thick boundary wall on the edge of the mountain cliff. We walked into the fort and found ourselves facing ancient temples. The temples were empty but beautifully carved, and constructed in a cone shape, the hallmark of ancient temples. Judging by the way some of these structures were preserved we could tell that the Archaeology Department had been here and had been digging out this place. A few months earlier I was in Karachi in connection with a research project. There on the island of Manora I came across another ancient temple constructed right on the beach. It too was a cone shaped construction very similar to the architecture of the ancient temple on the top of this mountain here, thousands of kilometers away. It is remarkable how similar these architectural traditions were no matter how far apart. Given the size of this place it clearly must have been a residential fort, which means that an entire city would have once resided within these boundary walls. The temples were scattered over a vast area as well. There was one more near another edge of the mountain beyond which was the zigzagging Indus. It was a splendid sight. At the time when this city must have been raised it would have been important to locate a place next to the river but also high enough to not be inundated by it during the monsoons. “Sir do you think these are Jain temples?” I asked Iqbal Qaiser as he too appeared after a little while taking his time to complete this steep journey. After his successful book on historical shrines Iqbal Qaiser is now working on the Jain temples of Pakistan and he had found in the Jain sources that there were a few ancient temples in the region of Bilot not far from here. However no other sources besides the Jain sources regard these temples as Jain, including the records of the Archaeology Department. “I am not sure. These look Buddhist,” said Iqbal Qaiser. His analysis was based on pure conjecture. Standing on the steps of one of the ancient temples I called Salman Rashid, one of the most popular travel writers from Pakistan. “These are Hindu temples,” he said. “They are about one thousand years old. There are other ancient temples south from here. Those too are Hindu temples.” He was referring to Bilot which according to Iqbal Qaiser’s research were Jain. The journey back was much less exhausting but a greater exercise for the calf muscles. Our next destination was the temples at Bilot, about thirty minutes from here and in the district of Dera Ismail Khan. Haroon Khalid Edited July 30, 2018 by PBN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Naam mein hi 'Kafir' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, kira said: Prelims ka result kaisa rha riddle? @Stradlater preparing for ias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Oh for * sake 3 minutes ago, MechEng said: @Stradlater preparing for ias? Does a ias aspirant spend 16 hrs browsing icf? @kira stop messing around , will you? velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, sandeep said: Yes, Rajasthan is a treasure trove of architecture. I would love to go there on my next trip to India. like to visit this and like to see some stone wells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, velu said: like to visit this and like to see some stone wells Hawamahal is overrated. There are much much better places than it to visit in Jaipur. coffee_rules and Gollum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Few pictures I took at the Step Well in Patan - the notable thing about this site is that since it was buried for quite a long time, the sandstone carvings are remarkably well-preserved and look as they designed to. Sandstone in particular erodes over time a lot more than say, marble. So when one goes to Ajanta/Ellora or Elephanta/Kanheri in Mumbai, the ruins impress with their size, but not as much with the delicate detail, especially to the casual observer. Edit: Looks like upload limits are quite tight, need to downscale picture further... Edit2: 1st and 4th picture are from the Step Well, 2 and 3 are from Modhera Sun Temple. Edited July 30, 2018 by sandeep coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Gollum said: Hope GOI promotes these ancient marvels just like they do with Delhi Sultanate and Mughal architecture. I get a feeling there was more thrust on Islamic architecture under Congress rule when Marxist history professors were in charge of culture department, ASI, National Museum etc. I am not denying the beauty of the Taj Mahals and Qutb Minars but there are many more masterpieces across the country and much older too. South is lucky they have their architecture still surviving. Sorry, but strongly disagree with you. GoI has a typical government lazy ass attitude when it comes to promoting anything. The only reason Taj Mahal etc are 'promoted' more because they already had an existing name recognition. There is no "thrust" on one vs other, apart from silly political stunts that we have seen in the last couple of years. And I say that as someone who totally hates Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, sandeep said: Sorry, but strongly disagree with you. GoI has a typical government lazy ass attitude when it comes to promoting anything. The only reason Taj Mahal etc are 'promoted' more because they already had an existing name recognition. There is no "thrust" on one vs other, apart from silly political stunts that we have seen in the last couple of years. And I say that as someone who totally hates Congress. https://www.thequint.com/news/india/sc-lambastes-centre-up-govt-for-failing-to-preserve-taj-mahal UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stradlater said: https://www.thequint.com/news/india/sc-lambastes-centre-up-govt-for-failing-to-preserve-taj-mahal what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, sandeep said: Sorry, but strongly disagree with you. GoI has a typical government lazy ass attitude when it comes to promoting anything. The only reason Taj Mahal etc are 'promoted' more because they already had an existing name recognition. There is no "thrust" on one vs other, apart from silly political stunts that we have seen in the last couple of years. And I say that as someone who totally hates Congress. Sorry, they have historically promoted Islamic architecture (Marxist influence) but on top of that even now there is a major focus on a few pockets like Delhi, UP, Punjab, Rajasthan (latter 2 lesser than former 2 though) etc. For example why don't they promote Gol Gumbaz (Bijapur) like they do with some rather less impressive architecture in Delhi from the Sultanate period? And I think you are mistaken if you feel that they give the same treatment to Konark Sun temple and South Indian temples like they do with Mughal architecture in North India. Care to explain this? India’s top 5 revenue generating monuments were all built by Muslim rulers Do you seriously mean to say that there is no Hindu/Jain/Buddhist architecture to even make it to the top 5? 2500 years of history and we have nothing to show the world? Notice that there are no Muslim monuments from South or even West/East for that matter. Clearly this is not just a religious issue but also a geographical one. You may find it uncomfortable to hear but Congress has surrendered the dharmic culture of this country before the desert cultists just for appeasement. I don't have any problem if one loves and admires Muslims/Pakistanis or takes great pride in the Islamic monuments (freedom of choice) but one simply can't deny that under Congress rule we were taught a sanitized version of history and Hindus were made to feel embarrassed about their history and culture...this extended to all parts of our culture including tourist places. Time has come to take back what is rightfully ours, preserve our Islamic medieval past but also loosen the purse strings for our ancient past (and medieval non Muslim past). At the same time treat all parts of India equally. GOI wants to show Delhi's Islamic past fine, but even the Deccan and Bengal had a long and illustrious Islamic past that can't be swept under the carpet. And our treasure of temples in South India needs a leg-up....there is no justifiable reason for zero non Islamic monuments in the top 5. Edited July 30, 2018 by Gollum sorry mistakes, very drunk Stradlater, Moochad and UrmiSinhaRay 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, sandeep said: what's your point? Was agreeing with you. Look how Govt has handled Taj, the monument with which the name of India is synonymous with. UrmiSinhaRay and sandeep 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Gollum said: Sorry, they have historically promoted Islamic architecture (Marxist influence) but on top of that even now there is a major focus on a few pockets like Delhi, Rajasthan, UP, Punjab etc. For example why don't they promote Gol Gumbaz (Bijapur) like they do with some rather less impressive architecture in Delhi from the Sultanate period? And I think you are mistaken if you feel that they give the same treatment to Konark Sun temple and South Indian temples like they do with Mughal architecture in North India. Care to explain this? India’s top 5 revenue generating monuments were all built by Muslim rulers Do you seriously mean to say that there is no Hindu/Jain/Buddhist architecture to even make it to the top 5? 2500 years of history and we have nothing to show the world? Notice that there are no Muslim monuments from South or even West/East for that matter. Clearly this is not just a religious issue but also a geographical one. You may find it uncomfortable to hear but Congress has surrendered the dharmic culture of this country before the desert cultists just for appeasement. I don't have any problem if one loves and admires Muslims/Pakistanis or takes great pride in the Islamic monuments (freedom of choice) but one simply can't deny that under Congress rule we were taught a sanitized version of history and Hindus were made to feel embarrassed about their history and culture...this extended to all parts of our culture including tourist places. Time has come to take back what is rightfully ours, preserve our Islamic medieval past but also loosen the purse strings for our ancient past. At the same time treat all parts of India equally. GOI wants to show Delhi's Islamic past fine, but even the Deccan and Bengal had a long and illustrious Islamic past that can't be swept under the carpet. And our treasure of temples in South India needs a leg-up....there is no justifiable reason for zero non Islamic monuments in the top 5. LMAO zyada ho gayi aaj sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Stradlater said: LMAO zyada ho gayi aaj Kyaaaa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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