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Time to blood in Prithvi Shaw


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1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

Could Prithvi have scored less than 9 runs like Rahul did in SA. Doubt it . Surely he would have done better than that. He would have also averages better than Shikhar, Ajinkya and Vijay who all averaged under 21. These patta  players need a kick, otherwise the places are taken for granted.

You never know he could even score 0 like against WI A and Lions. Need to give him a chance but keep expectations low. It's not like Rahul is an experienced batsman. These are his first tours as well.

Edited by rkt.india
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1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

Could Prithvi have scored less than 9 runs like Rahul did in SA. Doubt it . Surely he would have done better than that. He would have also averages better than Shikhar, Ajinkya and Vijay who all averaged under 21. These patta  players need a kick, otherwise the places are taken for granted.

yes he can , rahul is the best young batting talent if he can fail so can anyone. If rahane who has been gr8 in overseas can fail so can anyone. Grass always looks greener on other side but when u have to face anderson n broad in their condition its a diff ball game . Its a diff game when u have face rabadda, steyn, morkel, phialnder in sa conditions 

 

Yes but new kids shud be brought in place of dhawan as he is pretty hopeless . But again dnt raise ur expectations 

 

Vijay, rahane, rahul are no patta players ...........england, Sa arent easy condiotions to score. The gr8 dravid doesnt have a gr8 avg in SA, kohli struggled in his 1st tour, Laxman didnt do that gr8 in eng 

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17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yes he can , rahul is the best young batting talent if he can fail so can anyone. If rahane who has been gr8 in overseas can fail so can anyone. Grass always looks greener on other side but when u have to face anderson n broad in their condition its a diff ball game . Its a diff game when u have face rabadda, steyn, morkel, phialnder in sa conditions 

 

Yes but new kids shud be brought in place of dhawan as he is pretty hopeless . But again dnt raise ur expectations 

 

Vijay, rahane, rahul are no patta players ...........england, Sa arent easy condiotions to score. The gr8 dravid doesnt have a gr8 avg in SA, kohli struggled in his 1st tour, Laxman didnt do that gr8 in eng 

Without giving chance how can one say Prithvi cannot average more than 9 runs in whole series. 

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4 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Without giving chance how can one say Prithvi cannot average more than 9 runs in whole series. 

M saying higher chances coz rahane n rahul are far more technically equipped then him at this point and even they are struggling which shows its not easy at all . 

M not saying he is bad....but the conditions are really difficult and players who betetr equipped are also struggling so high chances he wud meet same fate . 

 

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29 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

You never know he could even score 0 like against WI A and Lions. Need to give him a chance but keep expectations low. It's not like Rahul is an experienced batsman. These are his first tours as well.

That is not how you look at it. You just do the right thing and wait with optimism. I still remember how much criticism was thrown for picking Ganguly.  Once he scored that beautiful century on debut everyone went quiet. Rahul is a nervous wreck each time he bats. It is not exactly a great quality to have as a test batsman. I think Prithvi from what i have seen has more character than most of our current team members. 

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Just now, vvvslaxman said:

That is not how you look at it. You just do the right thing and wait with optimism. I still remember how much criticism was thrown for picking Ganguly.  Once he scored that beautiful century on debut everyone went quiet. Rahul is a nervous wreck each time he bats. It is not exactly a great quality to have as a test batsman. I think Prithvi from what i have seen has more character than most of our current team members. 

Ganguly was far more experienced by the time he came in 1996 and technically far strong then shaw is right now .

All its said is keep ur expectation low , these are extremely tough conditions considering opoosition bowler in mind. The same rahul smashed 199 against same bowlers at home, its nout about being nerveous....his game is tested here and so wud be of shaw

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Ganguly was far more experienced by the time he came in 1996 and technically far strong then shaw is right now .

All its said is keep ur expectation low , these are extremely tough conditions considering opoosition bowler in mind. The same rahul smashed 199 against same bowlers at home, its nout about being nerveous....his game is tested here and so wud be of shaw

It depends on the batsman. How they move their feet, how they play late, how they cope with. Lot of young players have done well in testing conditions compared to their seniors. That is how we identify potential greats. Your basic game decides whether you will do well or not. Not our age or experience. sam curran for a 20 year old negotiated much better by hanging on the backfoot.  Only players who play as late as possible can survive here. That is why i always back Gill to come good. He plays as late as possible. He never tries to reach out for the ball.  Fundamentals have to be sound. May be too much T20/ODI but Rahul has been an inconsistent player in all formats. Rahane may be a lean patch. But we just cannot have anyone with lean patch now. Let him come back later. Rightnow we need someone who can score runs or even hang around like umesh and ishant.

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1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

It depends on the batsman. How they move their feet, how they play late, how they cope with

Shaw feet movement isnt gr8 , anderson will eat him alive

Even rohit plays late and we all knw how he fared

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Lot of young players have done well in testing conditions compared to their seniors. That is how we identify potential greats. Your basic game decides whether you will do well or not. Not our age or experience. sam curran for a 20 year old negotiated much better by hanging on the backfoot. 

Sam curran play in these condition day in n out

I wnt have put this question had shaw been playing in India against same anderson n broad

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Only players who play as late as possible can survive here. That is why i always back Gill to come good. He plays as late as possible. He never tries to reach out for the ball.  Fundamentals have to be sound. May be too much T20/ODI but Rahul has been an inconsistent player in all formats. Rahane may be a lean patch. But we just cannot have anyone with lean patch now. Let him come back later. Rightnow we need someone who can score runs or even hang around like umesh and ishant.

I love gill n rate him highly then shaw but selectors arent even giving him a chance in 4 day games.....so no point even arguing on that point . 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

M saying higher chances coz rahane n rahul are far more technically equipped then him at this point and even they are struggling which shows its not easy at all . 

M not saying he is bad....but the conditions are really difficult and players who betetr equipped are also struggling so high chances he wud meet same fate . 

 

I never said you mentioned he was bad. My point was it is very easy for a specialist batsman to average more than 9 runs in whole series. Hardik even with lesser technique than Prithvi or Rahul or Ajinkya or Shikhar or Vijay outscored them in SA. So why can't Prithvi. And Hardik did not struggle because better technically equipped batters struggled. If Prithvi shows better application, temperament and hand eye coordination then he can score more than the poor benchmarks that were set in SA. I am not saying he will average 40 but 9 runs average is a joke. So is 21  runs. And Prithvi just has to hit 3 fours to get past all of that. 

 

Actually, his average was 7.50 runs, not even 9 runs.

Edited by Straight Drive
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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Shaw feet movement isnt gr8 , anderson will eat him alive

Even rohit plays late and we all knw how he fared

Sam curran play in these condition day in n out

I wnt have put this question had shaw been playing in India against same anderson n broad

I love gill n rate him highly then shaw but selectors arent even giving him a chance in 4 day games.....so no point even arguing on that point . 

 

 

We cannot introduce players only in easier conditions against easier oppositions. Eventually, they have to play here. Dravid/Ganguly/Tendulkar all had to playa gainst very good opposition or conditions at the start. Idea is to MOVE ON. As simple as that. No more recycling business. They fail so be it. persist with them. We cannot select players because we are scared that they might fail against Anderson/Broad.  At home conditions, Dhawan is a certified bully. We will never move forward with the timid selection.

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4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

We cannot introduce players only in easier conditions against easier oppositions. Eventually, they have to play here. Dravid/Ganguly/Tendulkar all had to playa gainst very good opposition or conditions at the start. Idea is to MOVE ON. As simple as that. No more recycling business. They fail so be it. persist with them. We cannot select players because we are scared that they might fail against Anderson/Broad.  At home conditions, Dhawan is a certified bully. We will never move forward with the timid selection.

eventually is better coz atleast ull come from scoring runs, if u fail in ur 1st series u start to question urself that if ur good enough in those condition

If u check tendulkar interview where he talks about his 1st match failure- he said he started questioning that is he good enough for this stage 

 

n that was tendulkar 

 

Again dravid , ganguly, tendulkatr highly equipped player technically 

 

M all up for Moving on but all m saying is keep ur expectation low with youngsters, i see how harsh we get with pandya n rahul

 

8 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

I never said you mentioned he was bad. My point was it is very easy for a specialist batsman to average more than 9 runs in whole series. Hardik even with lesser technique than Prithvi or Rahul or Ajinkya or Shikhar or Vijay outscored them in SA. So why can't Prithvi. And Hardik did not struggle because better technically equipped batters struggled. If Prithvi shows better application, temperament and hand eye coordination then he can score more than the poor benchmarks that were set in SA. I am not saying he will average 40 but 9 runs average is a joke. So is 21  runs. And Prithvi just has to hit 3 fours to get past all of that. 

 

Actually, his average was 7.50 runs, not even 9 runs.

prithvi will have to face new ball unlike pandya , n pandya have the pressure of failing with bat that much as he plays as all rounder, m not saying dnt give him a chance 

jst keep low expectation , dnt expect drastic changes in fortune be ready for same fate ( u may feel what ths point of saying that but to be honest we dnt have patience for youngsters n pandya n rahul are best xamples) 

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I would certainly back Prithvi to score 2 fours or average 8 runs at least in whole series. Not saying that expectation is to score 1 run more than Rahul. But sometimes selectors need to show that someone has batted worse than a tailender. Else we see same temperament in next series too like we saw in England. Let the flopped batsman make comeback. Now Lords will be batting friendly, more so than Edgbaston at least and everyone will say Rahul, Vijay,Shikhar,Ajinkya had a blip. Sorry it wasn't a blip. It was a whole miserable series followed by another struggle in next series where conditions were supporting bowlers. Then the same story repeats. Home it's like lion in jungle and fish out of water in some places. 

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12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

eventually is better coz atleast ull come from scoring runs, if u fail in ur 1st series u start to question urself that if ur good enough in those condition

If u check tendulkar interview where he talks about his 1st match failure- he said he started questioning that is he good enough for this stage 

 

n that was tendulkar 

 

Again dravid , ganguly, tendulkatr highly equipped player technically 

 

M all up for Moving on but all m saying is keep ur expectation low with youngsters, i see how harsh we get with pandya n rahul

 

prithvi will have to face new ball unlike pandya , n pandya have the pressure of failing with bat that much as he plays as all rounder, m not saying dnt give him a chance 

jst keep low expectation , dnt expect drastic changes in fortune be ready for same fate ( u may feel what ths point of saying that but to be honest we dnt have patience for youngsters n pandya n rahul are best xamples) 

Harsh on Rahul ?. The fact he got picked for international series again without  being asked to work upon flaws and  make comeback after average of 7.50 was God's grace. One of the most luckiest cricketer i would say. And how does he reacts after all the luck. Bats next series with a rubbish temperament. 

 

I know he is much better cricketer than 8 runs average even at this level even against same bowlers and tough conditions. I would say he would average 20 at least in tough conditions rather than 7.50. But to get those 20 runs from him he has to be reminded this is not place for granted. Some players need to be bought back to thinking zone inspire of all the talent. I hope you get my point of view.

 

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Hopefully Virats hard words on the lines of top order should learn from Umesh and Ishant as to how to bat will be enough danda for the time being. Whether batsmen should have been told to learn how to bat from bowlers in public is another point, but the message was much needed. That danda will hopefully have the desired effect of being dropped and we will see better scores on much better batting conditions at Lords.

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35 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Harsh on Rahul ?. The fact he got picked for international series again without  being asked to work upon flaws and  make comeback after average of 7.50 was God's grace. One of the most luckiest cricketer i would say. And how does he reacts after all the luck. Bats next series with a rubbish temperament. 

Flaws need to come out 1st which is looking evident only on eng tour

Even kohli flaws came out in england, he avg 13 in that tour

 

picked again???? why was he dropped in 1st place?

how is he lucky....the guy gets no backing

what is rubbish temprament, did he bring holiday weight like rohit sharma on tour . Playing a poor shot doesnt mean rubbish termparement. Greatest players ahve played poor shots

 

This is the harsh behaviour m talking about, this is how ull react when shaw ill be found out???

 

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2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Well I won't comment about his preference for beard etc. But seriously 9 runs average for specialist batsman. The worst I can recall was Yuvi with 4 runs versus Aussies. Some would say if there was hindsight that Rahul would average 9 runs and Ajinkya, Shikhar, Vijay below 21 then one would have opted Prithvi. It's the same story again on non-patta wicket. Do we not back Prithvi to score more runs than these 4 jokers even on non-patta wicket.

 

Moreover he is in form and has experience of playing in England. So at least he is used to conditions unlike being a total novice over here.

BC ....Bade Bade jhandu Jo 10 Saal se khel rahey hai unhoney ne kya ukhar liya and here you have a problem with an youngster who is not getting his chance consistently , in that SA series all players whose name was not kohli or ab failed miserably. He is not out and out failure like these 10 year old veterans.moreover u loss credeblity of ur statement as soon as you rooted for pappu . Failing with younger player is no shame at least they have potential , no doubt you selectors make these dubious selection when we have people here on icf who still happy for pappu Patel and other oldies.

Edited by raki05
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17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Flaws need to come out 1st which is looking evident only on eng tour

Even kohli flaws came out in england, he avg 13 in that tour

 

picked again???? why was he dropped in 1st place?

how is he lucky....the guy gets no backing

what is rubbish temprament, did he bring holiday weight like rohit sharma on tour . Playing a poor shot doesnt mean rubbish termparement. Greatest players ahve played poor shots

 

This is the harsh behaviour m talking about, this is how ull react when shaw ill be found out???

 

Leave it mam, its useless  to discuss with the fan who is still basking in the glory of PP. He is taking name of other 3 top order oldies just to bash Rahul

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13 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Flaws need to come out 1st which is looking evident only on eng tour

Even kohli flaws came out in england, he avg 13 in that tour

 

picked again???? why was he dropped in 1st place?

how is he lucky....the guy gets no backing

what is rubbish temprament, did he bring holiday weight like rohit sharma on tour . Playing a poor shot doesnt mean rubbish termparement. Greatest players ahve played poor shots

 

This is the harsh behaviour m talking about, this is how ull react when shaw ill be found out???

 

If you think average of 7.50 is justified then fair enough. I respect your view. For me 7.50 is damn pathetic for a specialist batsman. I would end at that.

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14 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

We cannot introduce players only in easier conditions against easier oppositions. Eventually, they have to play here. Dravid/Ganguly/Tendulkar all had to playa gainst very good opposition or conditions at the start. Idea is to MOVE ON. As simple as that. No more recycling business. They fail so be it. persist with them. We cannot select players because we are scared that they might fail against Anderson/Broad.  At home conditions, Dhawan is a certified bully. We will never move forward with the timid selection.

yes they did debut in England but that England attack was as ordinary as it gets.

 

regarding Dhawan being certified bully at home. Even that is not true.  Exclude his debut century and even his home record is as poor. he could not last Philander on a flat pitch even at home.  he averages 34 at home in 10 tests.

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16 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

If you think average of 7.50 is justified then fair enough. I respect your view. For me 7.50 is damn pathetic for a specialist batsman. I would end at that.

m not justifying it, but u wnt always score runs

tendulkar avg below 20 in 2013 whole year, kohli avg 13 last tour england

 

sometimes u hve to let a player fail to, he ll only get better after failure. Kohli to did coz he rectified his error .

thats how u build players, failure is also a part of building a player 

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