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The Outsider

Please drop Pandya to maintain Test cricket’s sanctity.

Pandya is the next......  

58 members have voted

  1. 1. Pandya is the next.........



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Pandya is no Kapil Dev, said the wise Holding. Pandya is not even a Madan Lal, Prabhakar, or Roger Binny.

 

He has no place in Test cricket and needs to be dispatched to the more colorful cricketing attire with some urgency. The guy struggles to play a proper forward defensive stroke and has been wicketless for four consecutive tests. 

 

His bowling is pedestrian. The guy struggles to pick up one wicket in a match at First Class level, and will struggle to do that in Tests as well, probably at an average topping 50. 

 

Incredible that India are playing a specialist batsman at number 7 and 8, a specialist batsman who averages 35 in First Class cricket. A specialist batsman should at least average 40. This cow-lasher has a First Class average of 35, and one century after lappebaazing the hapless Sri Lankans.

 

Okay, leeway can be made for borderline all rounders. Stokes averages 35, but picks up 2+ wickets per match. Shastri averaged 35, but picked up 2 wickets per match, and opened and scored hundreds against good attacks away from home. This lappebaaz plays at number 7/8 and will struggle to pick up even one wicket per match.

 

The guy is 25 and has no upside of becoming even a Prabhakar, Binny, or Madan Lal. Please spare Test cricket the presence of this cow lashing, lappebaaz, gun barrel straight, pie-chucker. 

 

 

EDIT: Adding stats to help with poal choices

 

 

Sobers: Batting average - 58; Bowling average - 34 (2.5 Wickets per test)

Kapil: Batting average - 31; Bowling average - 29 (3.5 Wickets per test)

Flintoff: Batting average - 32; Bowling average - 33 (2.75 Wickets per test)

Watson: Batting average - 35; Bowling average - 34 (1.25 Wickets per test)

Shastri: Batting average - 36; Bowling average - 41 (1.9 Wickets per test)

Prabhakar: Batting average - 33; Bowling average - 37 (2.4 Wickets per test)

Abdul Razzaq: Batting average - 29; Bowling average - 37 (2.2 Wickets per test)

Madan Lal: Batting average - 23; Bowling average - 40 (1.8 Wickets per test)

Abid Ali: Batting average - 20; Bowling average - 42 (1.6 Wickets per test)

Ronnie Irani: Batting average - 17; Bowling average - 37 (1 Wicket per test)

 

Edited by The Outsider
Poal and stats

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3 minutes ago, GautiMaan said:

Give Pandya 15 tests at home and he will easilly average over 45 with the bat

 

Going by the threads on ICF It's almost as if Pandya is the single cause of our Losses when in truth he has done better than the so called specialist batsmen

  

  

 

That's why he averages below 30 in FC.

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5 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Hardik's test batting average of 35 is good for a test batting all rounder. However, his test bowling SR of 88 is something which needs lot of improvement. Imo he should be given few more tests to let him showcase that he is improving as a test bowler. 

 for that he has to given a lot more bowling

he has jst bowled 102 overs in 8 test that basically 12-13 over per test which isnt much 

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Showcasing improvements, Haha! This is the showcase. 

 

A guy who can’t play proper forward defensive strokes and bowls utter tripe with no swing or controlled seam movement at the age of 25 has zero upside. 

 

There are a couple of non-negotiable things in Test cricket:

 

1. Batting: You must have at the minimum a proper forward defense. Successful batsmen who were attacking and weren’t sure of their off stump always, like Sehwag, Gilchrist, Kapil, all had a solid forward defense.

 

2. Bowling: Some kind of movement. This guy is gun barrel straight. He doesn’t swing the ball, neither does he hit the deck hard, and neither does he have the height to produce unpredictable bounce.

 

There are no cricketing tools to build on here. If he works on his game, he can possibly emulate Syed Abid Ali. Don’t see him crossing Madan Lal, Binny, or Prabhakar.

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5 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

His SR factors all the overs he bowls. 

that will improve with time and more responsibility at this point his role is to rest others and he is doing that....lets not look at s/r right now 

 

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

That's because he leaks runs and is part timer at best?

If u wanna call him a part timer u have to lower ur expectation towards him as bowler 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

that will improve with time and more responsibility at this point his role is to rest others and he is doing that....lets not look at s/r right now 

 

If u wanna call him a part timer u have to lower ur expectation towards him as bowler 

I differ on that view that AR needs to be used to rest bowlers.

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Something about Pandya is irking the posters here and I'm not sure it's his cricketing pedigree or lack thereof

 

If Pandya is as bad as you think then Test Cricket will expose him just like Binny, Raina and others before.Right now we have bigger problems like how technically correct batsmen with forward defence can't score half the runs as Pandya

 

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Lets all agree to disagree on pandya here, ppl have diff opinions

 

But likes of tendulkar, ganguly, wasim, ponting , sangakkara and even Ian chappell is having high expectation n have backed him ........u think these guys foolish

 

Something tell me that after around 15 test ill be laughing at this thread, 

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14 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

Showcasing improvements, Haha! This is the showcase. 

 

A guy who can’t play proper forward defensive strokes and bowls utter tripe with no swing or controlled seam movement at the age of 25 has zero upside. 

 

There are a couple of non-negotiable things in Test cricket:

 

1. Batting: You must have at the minimum a proper forward defense. Successful batsmen who were attacking and weren’t sure of their off stump always, like Sehwag, Gilchrist, Kapil, all had a solid forward defense.

 

2. Bowling: Some kind of movement. This guy is gun barrel straight. He doesn’t swing the ball, neither does he hit the deck hard, and neither does he have the height to produce unpredictable bounce.

 

There are no cricketing tools to build on here. If he works on his game, he can possibly emulate Syed Abid Ali. Don’t see him crossing Madan Lal, Binny, or Prabhakar.

Prabhakar was different. He opened the bowling as well as batting.

 

But yes, I do agree that showcasing can not go on and on.  That's why I said 20 tests, not 30 or 60 odd.

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I have never seen such shameless and unprofessional behavior by a group of fans like that of Pandya. To justify his position in the team they have redefined the role of all rounder. Throw the classic definition out the window and say that he lets the main bowler rest. They are making up shyt as they go along to support him. This man has no role in this team.

 

Sports are about sport boards. He is registering a big zero in the wickets column. 

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5 minutes ago, Khota said:

I have never seen such shameless and unprofessional behavior by a group of fans like that of Pandya. To justify his position in the team they have redefined the role of all rounder. Throw the classic definition out the window and say that he lets the main bowler rest. They are making up shyt as they go along to support him. This man has no role in this team.

 

Sports are about sport boards. He is registering a big zero in the wickets column. 

but acc to u all rounder are like unicorn they dnt exist ....to ye defination kaha se aa gayi

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4 minutes ago, Khota said:

I have never seen such shameless and unprofessional behavior by a group of fans like that of Pandya. To justify his position in the team they have redefined the role of all rounder. Throw the classic definition out the window and say that he lets the main bowler rest. They are making up shyt as they go along to support him. This man has no role in this team.

 

Sports are about sport boards. He is registering a big zero in the wickets column. 

By the way a AR definition is not going to change by discussions on forum. So chill.

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15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

that will improve with time and more responsibility at this point his role is to rest others and he is doing that....lets not look at s/r right now 

 

If u wanna call him a part timer u have to lower ur expectation towards him as bowler 

Calling him part timer is based on performance and not expectation.

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3 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

One way is make him bat by dropping a specialist batsman  as he is scoring more runs than them. And then pick one specialist bowler.

ill tell u a simple way -

Lets stop putting names on him- he is batsman or bowler 

 

Simple he is a batting all rounder who can offer rest to our fast bowler, after ages we found 140k+ bowler ...so lets not break them like we did in 2013-14 series. Neither do we have the luxury of ganguly, sehwag, sachin as bowler. Now our batting struggles overseas so we cnt play full bowlers as well so some batting cushion is needed and he has done decent till now

 

It may sound like bits n pieces....but lets stop focussing on name

Naam ke liye batsman khila lo- lekin wo bhi kya kr rhe hia ya piche bhi konsa bradman baitha hia 

 

What important is what is the need of team

Ill take ganguly, irfan  over him but are that option avl....hell no. So ill have to live with what i have. 

N pateince is must with young player ......u think chappel is a fool who said this series can be a turn around for him. Ian chappel player from old school, or tendulkar was a fool when he said he gives this side what it needs

 

Here ppl jst want a name- wo kya ye btao 

A lot of times a player may not give a big impression but is a need of team

 

This kid has talent n attitude but he lacks experience so we need patience.........

 

Anyone who wants proper all rounder- Mera ashirwaad tumhare saath hai jaao jaake dhundho india men agle kapil dev ko

 

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31 minutes ago, Lannister said:

We need a proper bowler in his place. He averages 46 with his bowling in Test cricket. His ODI bowling stats is also worse. 

A good point. We need a better test bowler than Hardik. He can replace some specialist batsman as he is batting better than him, which would mean he bats in top 6. Which would also allow to accommodate a bowler who has much better SR and lower average runs per wicket.

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5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Calling him part timer is based on performance and not expectation.

calling him anything on such short test career on basis of like 12-13 overs a test isnt a bit hurry 

n if team wants to use him like that which is fair enough coz till now helpful tracks have been given so a need hasnt arised. But u cnt go in a test match with that thinking..........when needed he took 3 Sa top order batsman in one of the innings 

 

In subcontinent his bowling wnt be needed much, in overseas till now tracks have been such that 4 bowlers have been enough. SO its his batting that has been under more of test ....bowling is quite underused. 

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5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ill tell u a simple way -

Lets stop putting names on him- he is batsman or bowler 

 

Simple he is a batting all rounder who can offer rest to our fast bowler, after ages we found 140k+ bowler ...so lets not break them like we did in 2013-14 series. Neither do we have the luxury of ganguly, sehwag, sachin as bowler. Now our batting struggles overseas so we cnt play full bowlers as well so some batting cushion is needed and he has done decent till now

 

It may sound like bits n pieces....but lets stop focussing on name

Naam ke liye batsman khila lo- lekin wo bhi kya kr rhe hia ya piche bhi konsa bradman baitha hia 

 

What important is what is the need of team

Ill take ganguly, irfan  over him but are that option avl....hell no. So ill have to live with what i have. 

N pateince is must with young player ......u think chappel is a fool who said this series can be a turn around for him. Ian chappel player from old school, or tendulkar was a fool when he said he gives this side what it needs

 

Here ppl jst want a name- wo kya ye btao 

A lot of times a player may not give a big impression but is a need of team

 

This kid has talent n attitude but he lacks experience so we need patience.........

 

Anyone who wants proper all rounder- Mera ashirwaad tumhare saath hai jaao jaake dhundho india men agle kapil dev ko

 

It is not necessary that an AR has to be there. If we do not have one then we can play specialists. But I would prefer to try and give 20 odd tests to him and see if he fits the bill because it would help balance team. If not then back to specialists. 

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7 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

Pandya has tailunt. I’m tempted to do a Pandya has more tailunt than Kapil thread.

Hi Outsider good to see you here after a very long time :two_thumbs_up:.Sunil Gavaskar was irritated and asked people not to compare him with Kapil Dev as he was once in a lifetime cricketer.

Edited by Switchblade

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3 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

It is not necessary that an AR has to be there. If we do not have one then we can play specialists. But I would prefer to try and give 20 odd tests to him and see if he fits the bill because it would help balance team. If not then back to specialists. 

i hve specifically written the need

We played specialist till we had fab four five coz among them they use to take 10-15 overs out easily . Now we dnt have the luxury. 

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Pandya has scored the 2nd highest number of runs for India in 5 test matches so far in 2018  ( which includes 4 tough away tests )  ...  and has the 3rd highest average among top 7 batters .  If he is the problem then what should we do with our other specialist batsmen  ?

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=8;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2018;spanmin1=01+Jan+2018;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=battin

 

Edited by express bowling

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Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

i hve specifically written the need

We played specialist till we had fab four five coz among them they use to take 10-15 overs out easily . Now we dnt have the luxury. 

That is bs. if Pandya is taking up the slot of No.6,the question must be asked is he the best No.6 batsman in India? If not the next question is who are the Top batsmen in India who can fill the slot.

 

If Pandya is atleast the Top 20 batsmen in India ready for an India cap,sure his bowling ability gets him in but is he though? Are you telling me none of the 20 batsmen in Indian domestics who are toiling hard to break into the side can get a few overs in?

 

The arguments I heard since yesterday, he is a specialist No.7 bat,I mean how ridiculous that sound. Then I was told he was an apprentice No.6 whatever that means, then the argument that he is an xfactor again an intangible argument.It just keeps piling up.

 

Coming to his bowling,if the question is raised that his bowling is useless,the argument seems to become he is a support bowler. Isn't the support bowler supposed to keep the runs down? Then when his high economy rate is brought up,he comes an attacking bowler.

 

We keep going in circles to prove the utility of Pandya.

 

As the OP mentioned,he has no technique whatsoever for test cricket as a batsman and his bowling is toothless.

 

I will say it again worth his weight in gold in LOI's given how pathetic our middle-lower middle order is.

 

The closest we have to an allrounder in this side is Ashwin and to some extent Bhuvaneshwar kumar. case can be made for Jadeja as well.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

.  If he is the problem then what should we do with our other specialist batsmen  ?

 

Acc to many here

Play one more specialist batsman.................naam ka batsman chahiye kaam ka nhin

or

Play one more specialist bowler.....coz who knws ICC might make a special rule for India that we ll have to take more then 20 wkts 

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This thread isn’t about how other batsmen are performing. If they’re not doing well, drop them and find replacements. 

 

If Pandya is a better batsman than them, make him bat in top 5/6. 

 

This is is about the abomination of a useless cricketer playing tests after tests because he is a LOI lappebaaz, at number 7/8 and not bowling. When he bowls he gets hammered.

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

But you have to understand Pandya still is bits and pieces player who should not be playing test cricket.

As i have written m not somebody who gets in tittle , i knw this team needs him 

Find me a better option ill be the 1st one to say dump him..........

 

Infact i hve written many times carry him n shankar overseas n use acc to condition 

 

For me team needs is important- ye sab tittle - bits n pieces, all rounder, batting alll rounder doesnt work once u enter in ground ...ur perfomance matter and currently he is doing better then many 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Acc to many here

Play one more specialist batsman.................naam ka batsman chahiye kaam ka nhin

or

Play one more specialist bowler.....coz who knws ICC might make a special rule for India that we ll have to take more then 20 wkts 

The argument that that Pandya is scoring a few runs more than specialist batsmen is built on a wrong premise. If Ishant Sahrma ends up scoring more runs than Rahane in this series but fails as a bowler doesn't mean that he should replace Rahane as a batsman or Ishant's place should not be questioned.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

i hve specifically written the need

We played specialist till we had fab four five coz among them they use to take 10-15 overs out easily . Now we dnt have the luxury. 

I also agree and in fact mentioned in my previous post that preferred tactic would be to have atleast one all-rounder. But then his batting average and bowling average and bowling SR should be evaluated, whoever he is. It should not be a non measurable performance criteria. 

 

Like there is no use of wicketkeeper batsman if he is going to drop 3 catches per innings and then score 30 runs on average. Similarly no use of all rounder who scores runs in test matches with a bad contribution in bowling. Otherwise there is no difference between specialist and AR.

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5 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

That is bs. if Pandya is taking up the slot of No.6,the question must be asked is he the best No.6 batsman in India? If not the next question is who are the Top batsmen in India who can fill the slot.

Coz u need some bowling

Do we hve a batsman capable of giving us 10-15 overs even if he doesnt take wkts....lets say like ganguly

 

Let me knw when u find one

5 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 

If Pandya is atleast the Top 20 batsmen in India ready for an India cap,sure his bowling ability gets him in but is he though? Are you telling me none of the 20 batsmen in Indian domestics who are toiling hard to break into the side can get a few overs in?

In last 5 test he has been better then ur top batters of the country 

5 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 

The arguments I heard since yesterday, he is a specialist No.7 bat,I mean how ridiculous that sound. Then I was told he was an apprentice No.6 whatever that means, then the argument that he is an xfactor again an intangible argument.It just keeps piling up.

U hear n quote what ever u want to 

5 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 

Coming to his bowling,if the question is raised that his bowling is useless,the argument seems to become he is a support bowler. Isn't the support bowler supposed to keep the runs down? Then when his high economy rate is brought up,he comes an attacking bowler.

 

He is suppourt bowler , thats how team is looking at

who asked to decide for kohli how he wants to use him

5 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

We keep going in circles to prove the utility of Pandya.

 

As the OP mentioned,he has no technique whatsoever for test cricket as a batsman and his bowling is toothless.

 

I will say it again worth his weight in gold in LOI's given how pathetic our middle-lower middle order is.

 

The closest we have to an allrounder in this side is Ashwin and to some extent Bhuvaneshwar kumar. case can be made for Jadeja as well.

 

 

So lets agree to disagree

 

Jadeja is one the shiitiest batsman in these conditon............dnt even think about making his case

Well pandya did better with bat then ashwin in SA n Eng till now 

Bhuvi - he is more of a bowler who can bat even he is no all rounder

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5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

As i have written m not somebody who gets in tittle , i knw this team needs him 

Find me a better option ill be the 1st one to say dump him..........

 

Infact i hve written many times carry him n shankar overseas n use acc to condition 

 

For me team needs is important- ye sab tittle - bits n pieces, all rounder, batting alll rounder doesnt work once u enter in ground ...ur perfomance matter and currently he is doing better then many 

Simple, list me the next 20-30 specialist batsmen/bowlers who are ready to break in the squad. Pretty sure atleast some of the batsmen can roll their arm over or some bowlers who can contribute some uselful runs.

 

Not that difficult is it?

 

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Show me one proper cricket team in the history of Test cricket (please exclude the Ronnie Irani and Larsen types, because they were not proper Test teams), which batted someone at number 7/8 because he could give their other bowlers a hammock to rest upon.

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