Please drop Pandya to maintain Test cricket’s sanctity.

[The Outsider]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Sorry, which "pointed question(s)" have I left unanswered?  Please point them out. 

 

And btw, there's a difference between making a joke, and calling someone names like 'bewakoof".  Totally ad hominem and unnecessary.  

I’ll give you the pointed questions tomorrow.

 

How do you respond to the person who is saying I claimed Bangar’s spell was great bowling when I didn’t do so?

[Global.Baba]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

look at ur claim 1st on the scorecard before questioning my claim

N bangar 2 wkts is gr8 bowling n pandya 2 wkts is useless

No, the very fact that Bangar and Pandya are in the same bracket should make you introspect.

 

Bangar was not good enough too. However,the point is Bangar was used to open the batting which means that the team management even then thought there is no point of playing an allrounder for the sake of it unless they are made full use of in one department.

 

Bangar also had a large body of work in domestic FC and could make a case for tests and maybe his bowling ability gave him the nod.

 

There is no concept of a lower order hitter or a no.7 batsman in test matches. how difficult is it for you to understand. Pandya is not a good enough bowler and at this stage given our fragile middle order, doesn't fit in to the scheme of things ahead of accomplished specialist bats like Pujara or batsmen trying to get in like Nair.

[express bowling]

50 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I'm smiling about how you are politely chiming in on this debate, but real nice and careful, from a distance.  Diplomacy is needed in boardrooms, not on discussion forums EB!

 

Sandeep ... I tried debating yesterday.  But soon realized that we are not really discussing cricketing issues here.

 

This is just about disliking either  Pandya's all-rounder tag  or  his  low FC average   or  his showboating   or   his non-classical batting technique ( irrespective of effectiveness )   or  him being a lesser talent than Kapil but being compared to him  or   preserving the sanctity of test cricket  etc.

 

In the post you quoted, I just tried to point out the real reason why Pandya is in the test team, which is very pertinent to this topic.  Otherwise, there is no point in fighting with people's personal likes and dislikes ... they are entitled to that and I rarely debate on personal likes and dislikes.

 

P.s --  I  doubt I can be pulled into a debate by an intelligently disguised  " bait "  like  yours in the quoted post.          ...  this post being just a reflection on this thread.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

No, the very fact that Bangar and Pandya are in the same bracket should make you introspect.

I didnt start it, someone called him better

Had to show stats

 

 

Quote

Bangar also had a large body of work in domestic FC and could make a case for tests and maybe his bowling ability gave him the nod.

Pandya didnt play much FC he was fast tracked, now before u ask why- we needed it

COz we were suffering with binny n somewhat rishi dhawan

 

Once u enter international cricket ur domestic record doesnt matter...it stays their. Its what u do their 

Quote

There is no concept of a lower order hitter or a no.7 batsman in test matches. how difficult is it for you to understand. Pandya is not a good enough bowler and at this stage given our fragile middle order, doesn't fit in to the scheme of things ahead of accomplished specialist bats like Pujara or batsmen trying to get in like Nair.

He is batsman who has played good knock in tough conditions, just becoz he has the ability to strike the ball hard doesnt mean he cnt become a batsman

Its no joke to score 93 in SA or where our main batsman failed

To score  a 70 + in Aus against Aus-A on a green top where our every A team upcoming batsman failed( now before ask why i quoted that ....u also quoted bangar Fc ..atleast i quoted A games n the sample size of his test cricket is small to call him failure or success)

 

Ur a hitter , slogger , batsman doesnt matter.......what matters is when it was tough he stood up above those with reputation 

 

Not a good enough bowler n u have passed that judgement in 8 games.....bravo . U knw how small that sample size is ......if i take that amont of sample size for many top cricketer it wud be a problem. 

 

The guy got a MOM for his bowling on Debut against NZ who plays fast bowling day in n day out. 

 

About nair getting in, well m up for it and their are enough vacanies in batting order before even reaching pandya slot 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Global.Baba]

Pandya is a terrific white ball cricketer . However,his wickets come when the batsmen are trying to attack him and cash in and in that process,servicable delveries get him wickets. I have not seen any ability of swinging the new ball or reversing the old ball or setting up batsmen or making things happen like Stokes did the other day.That is fine for LOI cricket as a guy bowling 140 clicks is not always easy to hit.

 

With the bat,most innings are slam-bam knocks towards the end. Sure he did play 1-2 finishing knocks but they weren't exactly back to the wall knocks when all hope was lost. I have never seen ability to build an innings yet.

 

Again these are ok for white ball cricket.

 

How are we so confident this will translate to tests,when he has no body of work in FC?

 

I personally don't hate Pandya's off-field shenanigans,hell Indian captain the best player in the world is kind of master at that. However I have not seen any indication that he has cricketing awareness or acumen. He is a fantastic athlete though I will give him that.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Global.Baba said:

Pandya is a terrific white ball cricketer . However,his wickets come when the batsmen are trying to attack him and cash in and in that process,servicable delveries get him wickets. I have not seen any ability of swinging the new ball or reversing the old ball or setting up batsmen or making things happen like Stokes did the other day.That is fine for LOI cricket as a guy bowling 140 clicks is not always easy to hit.

Watch his 1st game against NZ in dharamshala then

HE doesnt get new balls most times

Reverse happens when the ball is prepared , i dnt remeber it being prepared in last many test 

 

Stokes has played a lot of cricket and playing in home condition , these things comes with time. Also what did stokes do in India 

Just now, Global.Baba said:

 

How are we so confident this will translate to tests,when he has no body of work in FC?

Didnt he score in SA, SL n atleast showed application in 1st test , even on A tour against Australia in Australia again where ur next line of batsman didnt do much on greentop

Their are signs

Dnt u think u need to have patience, wud have understood ur claim had their been no show or others were on scoring fest and this guy was inconsistent 

 

[zen]

I hope that our specialists bring sanctity to test cricket at Lords .... Or will Ind have to rely on the heroics of Pandya to bring sanctity to test cricket .... the guy has the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat no matter what the format is as can be seen from his 3 wkts in that last over vs BD in T20, the 80 odd against Pak in ODI, or the 90 odd vs SA in Test 

 

PS to refresh our memories, the guy also has a test 100:

 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by zen

[Global.Baba]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I didnt start it, someone called him better

Had to show stats

 

 

Pandya didnt play much FC he was fast tracked, now before u ask why- we needed it

COz we were suffering with binny n somewhat rishi dhawan

 

Once u enter international cricket ur domestic record doesnt matter...it stays their. Its what u do their 

He is batsman who has played good knock in tough conditions, just becoz he has the ability to strike the ball hard doesnt mean he cnt become a batsman

Its no joke to score 93 in SA or where our main batsman failed

To score  a 70 + in Aus against Aus-A on a green top where our every A team upcoming batsman failed( now before ask why i quoted that ....u also quoted bangar Fc ..atleast i quoted A games n the sample size of his test cricket is small to call him failure or success)

 

Ur a hitter , slogger , batsman doesnt matter.......what matters is when it was tough he stood up above those with reputation 

 

Not a good enough bowler n u have passed that judgement in 8 games.....bravo . U knw how small that sample size is ......if i take that amont of sample size for many top cricketer it wud be a problem. 

 

The guy got a MOM for his bowling on Debut against NZ who plays fast bowling day in n day out. 

 

About nair getting in, well m up for it and their are enough vacanies in batting order before even reaching pandya slot 

Once again, there is no specialist position called "allrounder" the accurate term for that is bits and pieces.

 

struggling with Binny and Rishi Dhawan? How many tests  did Rishi Dhawan play.How many tests did Binny play?

 

Binny's inclusion didn;t really hurt us but he was not good enough and replaced by a specialist. Did it harm us in any ways?

 

For LOI's 100% agree,Pandya is a must and no one questions his spot there.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, zen said:

I hope that our specialists bring sanctity to test cricket at Lords .... Or will Ind have to rely on the heroics of Pandya to bring sanctity to test cricket .... the guy has the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat no matter what the format as can be seen from his 3 wkts vs BD in T20, the 80 odd against Pak in ODI, or the 90 odd vs SA 

To be honest specialist are lucky to have pandya, they getting away with it

Rahul , vijay, dhawan didnt even score a 50 in Sa but pandya criticisim has shielded them

Pujara who cudnt buy a run in county is looking like a saviour to many jst by being on bench.......

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, zen said:

I hope that our specialists bring sanctity to test cricket at Lords .... Or will Ind have to rely on the heroics of Pandya to bring sanctity to test cricket .... the guy has the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat no matter what the format as can be seen from his 3 wkts vs BD in T20, the 80 odd against Pak in ODI, or the 90 odd vs SA 

Did you see that game? It was more like Bangla batsmen's brainfarts and idiocy. Pandya bowled them the perfect ball to hit straight down the ground for a single to win the game lol. Must say though the last ball in that over was very good.

 

The 80 against Pak was just plain no holds barred hitting, it wasn't like a calculated assault.

 

90 odd vs SA was good,but do you think England will keep up with Karan for his brilliant knock in the 1st test if he keeps failing with the ball? we have seen plenty such innings by lower-middle order in tests.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

Once again, there is no specialist position called "allrounder" the accurate term for that is bits and pieces.

Cricket is not played with terms

A teams needs 10-15 overs from someone and we dnt have a luxury of ganguly,sehwag, sachin.....so they ahve to find an naswer somewere despite not affecting our batting much

 

So u have to look at the option

Give me someone like a ganguly ill take him over pandya in such condition but we dnt have one

 

So these terms are good for talking , doesnt work in the need

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

 

struggling with Binny and Rishi Dhawan? How many tests  did Rishi Dhawan play.How many tests did Binny play?

Coz they were only our fast bowling all rounder option

 

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

 

Binny's inclusion didn;t really hurt us but he was not good enough and replaced by a specialist. Did it harm us in any ways?

Binny did play a few infact when we won in england it was with him in team and he helped us drew a test last time

His few runs came in handy in lanka 

n fast bowlers n captained admired those 10-15 overs coz it gave rest to fast bowlers in that heat

 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Did you see that game? It was more like Bangla batsmen's brainfarts and idiocy. Pandya bowled them the perfect ball to hit straight down the ground for a single to win the game lol. Must say though the last ball in that over was very good.

 

The 80 against Pak was just plain no holds barred hitting, it wasn't like a calculated assault.

 

90 odd vs SA was good,but do you think England will keep up with Karan for his brilliant knock in the 1st test if he keeps failing with the ball? we have seen plenty such innings by lower-middle order in tests.

That is his strength that even a global baba cannot figure him out ..... X factor  

 

Or may be he is a bigger baba

Edited August 7, 2018 by zen

[The Outsider]

This argument seems done and dusted when Pandya supporters are purporting him with respect to Stuart Binny and Bangar. 

[zen]

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Can I have a puff of that ' roll' plz  

no. its legal where i come from..not in India sorry.

[Vilander]

ok guys honest assessment.

 

its going to be sobers then pandya then kallis be ready to eat crow next ipl. 

[cowboysfan]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

no one player wins u a cup, the whole team does

ganguly, kumble , dravid never won a WC doesnt reduce them as players 

 

no skill as international player

yet he scores 70+ in CT final where the whole batting fails

Scores 90+ on a spicy pitch in Sa.....a place were most of our batsman apart from kohli struggled to cross 50

Get MOM for bowling on his Debut against a side who plays fast bowling day in day out.......NZ

 

yea right he is no international class, bas tukke lag rhe hai 

We definitely won that Ct final.a few mindless slogs in SA which he failed to replicate again in the tour.

[SK_IH]

some loaded debate going on to and fro.however I fail to understand why Pandya fans thinks he is being used a scapegoat for last test loss, has anyone stated we lost the test because of him? 

playing pandya destroys the balance of the side completely instead of improving it.he is truly a neither here nor there kind of player for test.can we expect wkts from him when there is a partnership going on ? no,can we expect 100s from him ? no 

his favoured skill i.e batting is not good enough to sustain place in the side,not a difficult thing to understand i guess

[Straight Drive]

3 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

some loaded debate going on to and fro.however I fail to understand why Pandya fans thinks he is being used a scapegoat for last test loss, has anyone stated we lost the test because of him? 

playing pandya destroys the balance of the side completely instead of improving it.he is truly a neither here nor there kind of player for test.can we expect wkts from him when there is a partnership going on ? no,can we expect 100s from him ? no 

his favoured skill i.e batting is not good enough to sustain place in the side,not a difficult thing to understand i guess

He hasn't flopped totally if you see his series by series performances.it has been a mixed bag of peaks and lows.

 

To clarify:

1. He had a very good debut series versus SL in SL both with bat and ball.

 

2. Then he had a bad series versus SA in SA both with bat and ball.Here he averaged 20 with bat and had bowling sr of 102 with 3 wickets in 3 matches.

 

3.Again he had a very good series with the bat against Afghanistan in India averaging 71 !!  but couldn't pick a wicket as captain did not give him more than 9 overs and usually for a high SR bowler which he is, it is difficult for him to pick wicket in those many overs.Overall still a  very good series considering he excelled with bat.

 

It is a very conditions specific performance trend in terms of opponents and in terms of asian/sena series.Think he needs to be given couple of series which will let us know whether there is an improvement in trends or not.

 

 

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Did you see that game? It was more like Bangla batsmen's brainfarts and idiocy. Pandya bowled them the perfect ball to hit straight down the ground for a single to win the game lol. Must say though the last ball in that over was very good.

 

The 80 against Pak was just plain no holds barred hitting, it wasn't like a calculated assault.

 

90 odd vs SA was good,but do you think England will keep up with Karan for his brilliant knock in the 1st test if he keeps failing with the ball? we have seen plenty such innings by lower-middle order in tests.

karan is a bowler first, batsman second.  he wont be dropped if he is doing reasonably well with the ball.  Pandya is a batsman first, bowler second.  He will primarily be judged based on his batting.  He is more like a sixth batsman who can bowl some like Ganguly used to be for us.