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Rishabh Pant performance watch thread

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1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

And most important thing was that he read googly early.

 

If you don't read the ball, then doesn't matter what shot you play.

If you read the ball early even then you have to execute your shot properly.And yes it does matter what shot you were playing even when you fail to read the ball.

Edited by Pollack

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2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Which one?

He means this.

18.2 Bumrah to Root, FOUR, edged and the ball wrongfoots Pant. He was moving to his left and the ball goes the other way. Root is caught on the crease, jabbing at an inslanter, takes the edge and splits Pant and Che. May have just bounced in front of him had he been in his original position

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Not sure whose idea it was - an instruction from the brainless team management or Pant himself - but he clearly didn't come out playing his natural game. He was doing what Pandya did last evening, didn't play the way his natural game warrants.

 

Pant's strength is to always look for scoring opportunities and throw the line and length of bowlers off. This is the game that has brought him here and it'd be foolish if he's asked not to stick with his game.

Edited by sarchasm

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1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

Not sure whose idea it was - an instruction from the brainless team management or Pant himself - but he clearly didn't come out playing his natural game. He was doing what Pandya did last evening, didn't play the way his natural game.

 

Pant's strength is to always look for scoring opportunities and throw the line and length of bowlers off. This is the game that has brought him here and it'd be foolish if he's asked not to stick with his game.

It has to be the management. If you recall Kohli’s press conference where he spoke about he wants composure from the batsmen, not aggression, or something like that

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He has been batting with hard hands even in English swing conditions.

Therefore, a sitting duck against hint of swing. (either out caught behind or edging to slips)

 

Unless he changes his technique massively, he is bound to fail. Sadly, No senior batsman has given him advice , it seems. Probably coz they have themselves failed.  

 

In all likelihood, Saha will be our WK in Australia with DK as back up. And this will go on for at least another couple of years

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15 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

He has been batting with hard hands even in English swing conditions.

Therefore, a sitting duck against hint of swing. (either out caught behind or edging to slips)

 

Unless he changes his technique massively, he is bound to fail. Sadly, No senior batsman has given him advice , it seems. Probably coz they have themselves failed.  

 

 

Agree with this.

 

But the coach and batting coach should be telling him this.  What are they doing  ?

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29 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Agree with this.

 

But the coach and batting coach should be telling him this.  What are they doing  ?

He has had plenty of guidance from Rahul Dravid in the A set up I'm sure. Advice and guidance is one thing but until you find a method to make runs for yourself, you will always look at sea in alien conditions. 

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Coach, coach coach!!, That's all I read 

These guys are international cricketers , the creme de  la crème of cricket in their countries, they have been coached and coached , mentored , it's the mental pressure they can't stand!!

Two examples, Vijay and Ashwin 

Did the coaches say to Vijay , play through mid wicket 5th ball off middle and off stump 5th  the test match to Jimmy Anderson or tell Ashwin to reverse sweep 5 mins after getting in? ..of course they didn't , they couldn't handle the pressure .

At the moment Pant can't handle the pressure , he is a good bat but needs to learn to play in pressure situations.

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9 hours ago, WeStMiDz said:

He has had plenty of guidance from Rahul Dravid in the A set up I'm sure. Advice and guidance is one thing but until you find a method to make runs for yourself, you will always look at sea in alien conditions. 

 

Even Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli in their peak years needed / need guidance during difficult phases ... because an outside perspective is often needed when someone is doing something wrong.

 

The precise reason why coach, batting coach, bowling coach and fielding coach are there.

 

And Pant is just a kid playing his 3rd test in one of the more difficult batting conditions nowadays ... batting against a rampaging Anderson and Broad in these conditions.

 

Pant, Vihari, Shaw  etc. need constant guidance on these difficult tours .

Edited by express bowling

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6 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Coach, coach coach!!, That's all I read 

These guys are international cricketers , the creme de  la crème of cricket in their countries, they have been coached and coached , mentored , it's the mental pressure they can't stand!!

Two examples, Vijay and Ashwin 

Did the coaches say to Vijay , play through mid wicket 5th ball off middle and off stump 5th  the test match to Jimmy Anderson or tell Ashwin to reverse sweep 5 mins after getting in? ..of course they didn't , they couldn't handle the pressure .

At the moment Pant can't handle the pressure , he is a good bat but needs to learn to play in pressure situations.

 

Can't compare experienced players like Vijay, Rahane and Ashwin with rookies like Pant, Vihari etc.

 

Both Pant and Vihari are playing with hard hands.  They have been brought up batting in India where that is how they play.  Never played county cricket or in any swinging cinditions. When they toured England for the A-team, it was hot and the ball was not moving this much.

 

How are they supposed to know how to play swing  ?  

 

Even Kohli looked like a rookie last time in England ... and he was and is very good at handling pressure.

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Just now, express bowling said:

 

Can't compare experienced players like Vijay, Rahane and Ashwin with rookies like Pant, Vihari etc.

 

Both Pant and Vihari are playing with hard hands.  They have been brought up batting in India where that is how they play.  Never played county cricket or in any swinging cinditions. When they toured England for the A-team, it was hot and the ball was not moving this much.

 

How are they supposed to know how to play swing  ?  

 

Even Kohli looked like a rookie last time in England ... and he was and is very good at handling pressure.

they are just not used to these conditions after playing all their cricket in ind,

check this video... how comically kallis is playing spin in his early yrs 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Can't compare experienced players like Vijay, Rahane and Ashwin with rookies like Pant, Vihari etc.

 

Both Pant and Vihari are playing with hard hands.  They have been brought up batting in India where that is how they play.  Never played county cricket or in any swinging cinditions. When they toured England for the A-team, it was hot and the ball was not moving this much.

 

How are they supposed to know how to play swing  ?  

 

Even Kohli looked like a rookie last time in England ... and he was and is very good at handling pressure.

They know exactly how they should be playing and will have been practising in the nets BUT as I said it's a whole different game when you face huge pressure like they are . Mind not working properly, feet not moving, and all of a sudden you see ball leave hand and ooooooh a good length ball next thing out and people unhoused sitting in chairs going why did he not play this or that way .

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37 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

They know exactly how they should be playing and will have been practising in the nets BUT as I said it's a whole different game when you face huge pressure like they are . Mind not working properly, feet not moving, and all of a sudden you see ball leave hand and ooooooh a good length ball next thing out and people unhoused sitting in chairs going why did he not play this or that way .

 

Even great batsmen have had technical issues since the start of cricket.

 

Attributing everything to inability to handle mental pressure is not right.  There are lots of cricketers in this team who are good at handling pressure.  I don't think you can become successful international cricketers unless you know how to handle pressure.

 

Knowing something loosely (  technical aspect )  ... and incorporating it in one's batting style ... different things altogether.  

Edited by express bowling

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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Even great batsmen have had technical issues since the start of cricket.

 

Attributing everything to inability to handle mental pressure is not right.  There are lots of cricketers in this team who are good at handling pressure.  I don't think you can become successful international cricketers unless you know how to handle pressure.

 

Knowing something loosely ... and incorporating it in one's batting style ... different things altogether.  

What do you think of Azhar Ali of Pakistan?

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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

A very dogged old fashioned test batsman ... focuses on test cricket ...  has incorporated the technical aspects needed for test match survival by practicing for multiple years.

 

Wasn't this good in his early years.

Last game of cricket I ever played was against him , he was about 21, I would have bet my house on him not playing Test cricket never mind, 5000 runs with av of 44.84 and top score 302* 

I played many seasons  with an Indian test player, he was ten times the bat that Ali was , scored thousands of Ranji Trophy runs career av of 49  and played only two tests for India because he couldn't handle the pressure of test cricket but Azhar Ali can .

 

When you get to that level they all have the ability most of the time, little tweaks here and there but it's all about confidence and mental strength 

 

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9 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Last game of cricket I ever played was against him , he was about 21, I would have bet my house on him not playing Test cricket never mind, 5000 runs with av of 44.84 and top score 302* 

I played many seasons  with an Indian test player, he was ten times the bat that Ali was , scored thousands of Ranji Trophy runs career av of 49  and played only two tests for India because he couldn't handle the pressure of test cricket but Azhar Ali can .

 

When you get to that level they all have the ability most of the time, little tweaks here and there but it's all about confidence and mental strength 

 

he has failed a lot in eng ,mostly scores runs in asia

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7 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

he has failed a lot in eng ,mostly scores runs in asia

He was second top test run scorer in 2016 tour of England which included a ton. My point is not individual tours or innings but  certain players have it to play at test match level mentally and others with more talent don't .

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42 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Last game of cricket I ever played was against him , he was about 21, I would have bet my house on him not playing Test cricket never mind, 5000 runs with av of 44.84 and top score 302* 

 

That is what I said.  He was not this good in his early years ... but has built his game for test matches over the years.

 

Quote

I played many seasons  with an Indian test player, he was ten times the bat that Ali was , scored thousands of Ranji Trophy runs career av of 49  and played only two tests for India because he couldn't handle the pressure of test cricket but Azhar Ali can .

 

What you are talking about is some very talented players not having the temperament needed for success in international cricket. And some other players with lesser talent making it bigger due to determination.

 

 

That is a known fact.  No one dusputes it.

 

While discussing rookies like Pant, Vihari etc.  we don't really know what their temperament is like for the biggest stage. Only time will tell.

 

But even players with good temperaments have struggled on their first legs of overseas test tours.

 

Quote

When you get to that level they all have the ability most of the time, little tweaks here and there but it's all about confidence and mental strength 

 

But, with packed international calendars, 4 or 5 days of practice with the red ball before a series and solitary practice matches on foreign tours ... do the batsmen have the time to incorporate those minor tweaks in their games and make it their 2nd nature while batting overseas   ?

 

Why is every touring team struggling on foreign tours there days  ?  (  after multiple T20 leagues have started, players have less time to adapt from one format to another and calenders sre packed  )   Why is Australia getting whitewashed away from home against a weak Sri Lanka  ?   

 

Look at Shikhar Dhawan ... a big match players who performs in ICC tournaments and big matches in ODIs.  Has a good temperament.  But is let down by his poor technique when the ball is moving.

 

 

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@Tattieboy

 

I was listening to an interview of Virat Kohli.   He was asked how he was so successful in all 3 formats.

 

He replied  ( and we know it too )  that his basic game does not change irrespective of the format he is playing.   He plays cricketing shots only, rarely slogs and plays very few lofted shots.  This helps him get back to test cricket more smoothly then others, despite playing a T20 or ODI series a few days ago.

 

Obviously, every batsman does not have the talent to play so classically in LOIs ... but this planning from before hand helps too.

 

Try to stop bad habits from creeping in even while playing LOIs if possible.  Then the adapting back to red ball cricket is easier.

 

 

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Got a decent run of 3 matches. I hope that he would have realized that he needs to work on both batting and keeping to be effective in test cricket 

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8 minutes ago, prasen82 said:

I hope pant does justice to his talent and expectations. Need to give him the wi series and Australia series before judging him.

 

Have been a DK supporter but feel he should have grabbed this opportunity. 

He let it go for perpetuity.

 

 

Do you really think DK would have not performed this time. I feel bad for DK because he cannot fight the poor image he has. I feel he is good enough to play for India.

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9 minutes ago, Khota said:

Do you really think DK would have not performed this time. I feel bad for DK because he cannot fight the poor image he has. I feel he is good enough to play for India.

he didnt this time, his feet were not even moving........he looked awfull with the bat

and ganguly told in one of the pre matches that he saw karthik in nets and he looked woefully out of form

 

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1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

Dk is crap. He blew his chances he has gotten. Stick with pant. We will reap benefits. No point in sticking with dk.

Pant blew it. Test is not the place where you should get three successive chances.

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1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

Dk is crap. He blew his chances he has gotten. Stick with pant. We will reap benefits. No point in sticking with dk.

No point in giving DK another chance, he is never going to work. Rohit Sharma will never be good test batsman.

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