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Trichromatic

Pant has passed first test with flying colors

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It was a strange passage of play. Pant was trying to defend , ashwin was trying to play a reverse sweep. 

 

As a keeper he has done well, at a batsman he will mature. At this point 6 is a bit high, let him come after ashwin at 8 and swing his bat. 

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What Pant is going through is normal.   Just a 20 year old playing his first test series away from home.

 

What will define him as a player in the coming days is how he uses his playing experiences in England.  Will he think about what areas need improvement and will he work hard to improve them.

Edited by express bowling

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10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

What Pant is going through is normal.   Just a 20 year old playing his first test series away from home.

 

What will define him as a player in the coming days is how he uses his playing experiences in England.  Will he think about what areas need improvement and will he work hard to improve them.

No it's not.

Compare him with an 18 year old Parthiv who played in England in 2002 and in Australia at 2003.

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2 hours ago, Stan AF said:

No it's not.

Compare him with an 18 year old Parthiv who played in England in 2002 and in Australia at 2003.

 

And what is the result of that comparison ?   Only 40+ score by Parthiv in these two countries was in Sydney in his 13th test.

Edited by express bowling

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Typical ICF... first unnecessary hype and then asking for the head once he fails...lol

Let him go through the grind... he is young and would learn with time... Surely can be better than DK, Pappu. If he can keep himself fit for few more years can do the job like Saha. Hope he was tried earlier in easy tours at home and in chindi series like windies, lanka, etc. But Kohli was jus fattu. Becoming next MSD is way out of reach for him, but he deserves more chances.

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44 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Typical ICF... first unnecessary hype and then asking for the head once he fails...lol

Let him go through the grind... he is young and would learn with time... Surely can be better than DK, Pappu. If he can keep himself fit for few more years can do the job like Saha. Hope he was tried earlier in easy tours at home and in chindi series like windies, lanka, etc. But Kohli was jus fattu. Becoming next MSD is way out of reach for him, but he deserves more chances.

 

On what basis ?

 

Pant at 20 is a better keeper and a better batsman in all formats compared to Dhoni at 25 when he made his international debut.

 

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41 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

On what basis ?

 

Pant at 20 is a better keeper and a better batsman in all formats compared to Dhoni at 25 when he made his international debut.

 

I dont mind him playing more cricket for India. He deserves more chances, first series in England is no way easy whether 20 or 25. I understand you guys dont like Dhoni much here, but he is still the Gold standard for keeper/bat in modern era, it is not easy to replace such an MVP. Let Pant play all formats for few years first, that itself is very difficult for a keeper to sustain without injuries. 

Edited by Shunya

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3 minutes ago, Shunya said:

I dont mind him playing more cricket for India. He deserves more chances, first series in England is no way easy whether 20 or 25. I understand you guys dont like Dhoni much here, but he is still the Gold standard for keeper/bat in modern era, it is not easy to replace such an MVP. Let Pant play all formats for few years first, that itself is very difficult for a keeper to sustain without injuries. 

 

How did you assume I don't like Dhoni? I'd have him in my all time ODI World XI, ahead of Gilchrist.

 

I was asking what is the basis for you to say "Becoming next MSD is way out of reach for him" about Pant who at 20 seems to be a better WK-Bat than Dhoni at 25.

 

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7 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

How did you assume I don't like Dhoni? I'd have him in my all time ODI World XI, ahead of Gilchrist.

 

I was asking what is the basis for you to say "Becoming next MSD is way out of reach for him" about Pant who at 20 seems to be a better WK-Bat than Dhoni at 25.

 

Cricket is not a actuarial game. Firstly its subjective about how “good” he really is. Secondly, it doesn’t suggest that his career trajectory is meant for greatness. 

 

Irfan Pathan was considered better than Wasim at 19. Where did that end up ? Lets not BS ourselves. One test old 20 year old should be treated as one. No more. 

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24 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

How did you assume I don't like Dhoni? I'd have him in my all time ODI World XI, ahead of Gilchrist.

 

I was asking what is the basis for you to say "Becoming next MSD is way out of reach for him" about Pant who at 20 seems to be a better WK-Bat than Dhoni at 25.

 

Apologies if my assumption is wrong. I assumed that because you picked 1 sentence mentioning MSD out of my post and ignored everything else about Pant and his performance in this test and previous one which is the main topic of discussion.

 

Pant being better than Dhoni is out of question, where at 20 or 25. He has done nothing yet. Let him play for couple of years, right now he has done well in domestics to deserve a chance in national team, thats it. Comparing him with Dhoni is illogical that is why I said he is way out of his reach. Dhoni is an ATG and the best keeper/bat to come out of India overall, Pant has not even played 10 games yet in any format, let alone playing all formats. He is work in progress with both batting and keeping. Lets see him improving series after series instead of creating hype.

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8 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Apologies if my assumption is wrong. I assumed that because you picked 1 sentence mentioning MSD out of my post and ignored everything else about Pant and his performance in this test and previous one which is the main topic of discussion.

 

Pant being better than Dhoni is out of question, where at 20 or 25. He has done nothing yet. Let him play for couple of years, right now he has done well in domestics to deserve a chance in national team, thats it. Comparing him with Dhoni is illogical that is why I said he is way out of his reach. Dhoni is an ATG and the best keeper/bat to come out of India overall, Pant has not even played 10 games yet in any format, let alone playing all formats. He is work in progress with both batting and keeping. Lets see him improving series after series instead of creating hype.

 

You are the one who is comparing Pant to Dhoni, by saying it's way out of reach. 

 

Let him play couple of years.

 

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2 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

You are the one who is comparing Pant to Dhoni, by saying it's way out of reach. 

 

Let him play couple of years.

 

Never realized dhoni was an mvp in tests :rotfl:. The guy was an average keeper overseas. Hes a great odi player. No arguments. But let's call a spade a spade. He's a average test player and a mediocre t20 player for team India.

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1 minute ago, Laaloo said:

Never realized dhoni was an mvp in tests :rotfl:. The guy was an average keeper overseas. Hes a great odi player. No arguments. But let's call a spade a spade. He's a average test player and a mediocre t20 player for team India.

Which he certainly is. But lets also be clear whom we are comparing. In his first test in England, he held out the English bowlers for an hour with number 11 to draw the test and giving India the opportunity to win the series. 

 

Not a great test player but lets not even begin to compare this kid to him. 

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24 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Apologies if my assumption is wrong. I assumed that because you picked 1 sentence mentioning MSD out of my post and ignored everything else about Pant and his performance in this test and previous one which is the main topic of discussion.

 

Pant being better than Dhoni is out of question, where at 20 or 25. He has done nothing yet. Let him play for couple of years, right now he has done well in domestics to deserve a chance in national team, thats it. Comparing him with Dhoni is illogical that is why I said he is way out of his reach. Dhoni is an ATG and the best keeper/bat to come out of India overall, Pant has not even played 10 games yet in any format, let alone playing all formats. He is work in progress with both batting and keeping. Lets see him improving series after series instead of creating hype.

Dhoni started out when there were virtually no infra for cricket in India. 

Uparse he comes from a lower middle class family and that too from a small town like Ranchi when it was impossible to make it big in cricket if you're not from big towns.

He also started out quite late in his life and India definitely wasn't a cricketing giant back them. 

He had to work tremendously hard- both on his game and finding a good backer .

So whatever he has done, achieved in the field of cricket is certainly not comparable to Pant in this moment IMO. 

Also cricket had stronger opponents back in the day.

Pant might be talented,  but he certainly has more training and political backing than Dhoni ever could get in his early days if Not Ganguly backed him. 

Phony literally had to fend for himself when he first started out. 

What he has achieved in terms of crickets and politics is second to none.

 

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19 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

You are the one who is comparing Pant to Dhoni, by saying it's way out of reach. 

 

Let him play couple of years.

 

What I meant was Dhoni is the peak and Pant has just begun, hence he is way out of reach. In the ladder of greatness, he will have to cross DK and Pappu on immediate terms, than probably be better than other upcoming youngsters like Kishan, jagdeesan or the kid from last U19 wc, than probably Saha, and than MSD. 

 

But yes, we agree let him play for couple of years. I actually like him and want him to be another Dhoni. 

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16 minutes ago, UrmiSinhaRay said:

Dhoni started out when there were virtually no infra for cricket in India. 

Uparse he comes from a lower middle class family and that too from a small town like Ranchi when it was impossible to make it big in cricket if you're not from big towns.

He also started out quite late in his life and India definitely wasn't a cricketing giant back them. 

He had to work tremendously hard- both on his game and finding a good backer .

So whatever he has done, achieved in the field of cricket is certainly not comparable to Pant in this moment IMO. 

Also cricket had stronger opponents back in the day.

Pant might be talented,  but he certainly has more training and political backing than Dhoni ever could get in his early days if Not Ganguly backed him. 

Phony literally had to fend for himself when he first started out. 

What he has achieved in terms of crickets and politics is second to none.

 

Dhoni is great and his story is inspirational. I believe he is one of our MVP in cricket and also reason for lot of improvements in recent times. But Dhoni is gone, almost done in ODIs as well. So nothing more to add. 

 

Pant is definitely deserving, just dont like the hype without doing much yet. Let him actually contribute something for the national team to be even considered permanent.

 

The main point about this thread was his performance in first series which by all means look like work in progress. But he deserves this series, infact should have been tried in an easier series at home or against lanka, windies, etc. Unnecessary hype and discarding him based on 1 series is both extreme and illogical.

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3 hours ago, Laaloo said:

Never realized dhoni was an mvp in tests :rotfl:. The guy was an average keeper overseas. Hes a great odi player. No arguments. But let's call a spade a spade. He's a average test player and a mediocre t20 player for team India.

 

averaging close to 40 is not an average average in tests for a lower order batsmen :p: 

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1 hour ago, speedheat said:

 you want him to be another dhoni in testmatches and t20is ?? No then OK if yes then you don't like him my friend.

Dhoni is the best keeper/bat we have produced overall in all formats combined and also one of the best in the world, so yes if he can be like him or better than him that will be awesome for us. 

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13 hours ago, Shunya said:

Dhoni is the best keeper/bat we have produced overall in all formats combined and also one of the best in the world, so yes if he can be like him or better than him that will be awesome for us. 

Since he is individually poor/average in two of the three formats just club together all formats: Dhoni is the best keeper/bat overall in all formats combined. :rotfl:

Honestly only ODIs are where he shined. Others didn't get chance in the other two formats. And that was not because dhoni was good but because he was captain and brilliant in ODIs. 

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Based on what I saw this version of Pant will struggle in SC against the spinners. His collection is poor, he has to sort it out...no 2 ways about it. He is very young, so not a glaring issue but no one can seriously tell me his technique is acceptable for international level. Both Saha and Pant must be selected for all test series the next 18 months and Pant should be under the Master's tutelage. Don't remove Pant from the picture, he needs time and some mentoring....it is disgraceful to see how they are treating him in white ball formats.

Edited by Gollum

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41 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Since he is individually poor/average in two of the three formats just club together all formats: Dhoni is the best keeper/bat overall in all formats combined. :rotfl:

Honestly only ODIs are where he shined. Others didn't get chance in the other two formats. And that was not because dhoni was good but because he was captain and brilliant in ODIs. 

It is a fact that he is the best from India and one of the best in world. It does not matter what you or me like or not. If it was as simple as you are trying to say, I am sure there will be hundreds of keepers around who would replicate such things and play in all formats and be good at it.

 

Anyhow, Dhoni is gone. Lets focus on Pant now, he has been poor so far. But obviously, he has potential and is young so have lots of time to work on it. Hope he can concentrate and not get carried away with the media/SM hype. Would be disaster if all of them in the team end up being showboats and no substance.

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1 hour ago, Shunya said:

If it was as simple as you are trying to say, I am sure there will be hundreds of keepers around who would replicate such things and play in all formats and be good at it.

But Dhoni wasn't good in all formats. He was good only in one format. And hence it wouldn't be so difficult for others to replicate such things and it's ridiculous to expect them to be good in all formats to be better than dhoni since your so called benchmark himself wasn't good in all of them.

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52 minutes ago, Pollack said:

But Dhoni wasn't good in all formats. He was good only in one format. And hence it wouldn't be so difficult for others to replicate such things and it's ridiculous to expect them to be good in all formats to be better than dhoni since your so called benchmark himself wasn't good in all of them.

Tests and ODIs - he was great. T20Is not. And he is the benchmark for every keeper, you can disagree with it but it will be a fact. 

BTW - Forget Dhoni - dont understand why are you so offended by Dhoni being called an ATG. What do you think of Pant? He is already got an early start which is very rare. Does he look better than Pappu, DK and Saha?

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I didn't watch the first innings 0(29) looks like he is not comfortable playing outside his comfort zone. He should be like Butler. shot making is what that suits you just go for it.  Gilly never held himself back just because Australia is 5 down. Percentage cricket suits Dhoni not sure Pant has reached that level. 

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1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

I didn't watch the first innings 0(29) looks like he is not comfortable playing outside his comfort zone. He should be like Butler. shot making is what that suits you just go for it.  Gilly never held himself back just because Australia is 5 down. Percentage cricket suits Dhoni not sure Pant has reached that level. 

Can't compare with Dhoni... He is more like maxwell/Afridi type. Should stick to his original game. 

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1 minute ago, Yoda-esque said:

Kid already owns an Audi SUV.
Difficult to see where these youngsters are going to get inspiration from...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 

:p: Would be disappointed in him if he didn't get a Lambo or a Ferrari. That's what he should be aiming for... 

 

Few seasons in IPL is enough. 

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2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Try better. It definitely means Badrinath is not Maxwell/Afridi type.

Nothing really there to try. I was just pointing out a guy who has high average FC but he could never make it to the big scenes. FC averages doesn't mean anything. 

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Dhoni was a pretty good keeper batsman by every standard even in tests, some naysayers might find it hard to digest but he was pretty good.If Pant can be as good as him in tests I ll take that ,going beyond him would be awesome.

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Based on batting only, I think we should have introduced Pant at home rather than here in England. 

 

I support introducing new batsmen only during home series. Pant is playing like Rahul did when he came in Australia. They play too aggressive and try to hit too much. 

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Pant took the right approach early today by playing his natural game but got a little too carried away. Bad stuff by Pant in terms of dismissal. As much as I admire the kid and liked his approach today at the start of the innings, sometimes we must accept faults of the player whom we support and Pant today should be disappointed after starting off well. He will and should get plenty of chances but needs to be more gritty from here on.

 

 

 

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