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Sooda

Agarwal Vs Shaw

Reserve opener  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should have replaced Vijay

    • Prithvi Shaw
      25
    • Mayank Agarwal
      11


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What do you keen observers make of the Shaw selection for the remaining tests ahead of Agarwal.

 

And more to the point, who is the better batsman and test prospect- him or Agarwal?

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Both are unproven in so far as Test Cricket is concerned,however Mayank gives you that Dinesh Karthik feeling (if you know what I mean).So,am happy with Shaw getting the preference.

However Mayank may also get his chances soon.

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2 minutes ago, BlueBee said:

Shaw for Vijay is a good but I think Mayank too deserves a chance in place of Dhawan. 3K runs in a season is no joke, he convinces you or not is a different thing but he's made a case for himself and a very very strong one that is.

i agree personal opinions aside the guy has made a huge case for himself and he shud atleast get a chance 

If dhawan fails remaining 2 games, mayank shud get in WI test series

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45 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Both are unproven in so far as Test Cricket is concerned,however Mayank gives you that Dinesh Karthik feeling (if you know what I mean).So,am happy with Shaw getting the preference.

However Mayank may also get his chances soon.

I agree with you. 

Do kinda feel for Mayank, but whenever I've seen him, not been too impressed.

 

Is your pic from yday's press conference? RS looked like he'd been drinking the whole match

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40 minutes ago, Sachinism said:

I agree with you. 

Do kinda feel for Mayank, but whenever I've seen him, not been too impressed.

 

Is your pic from yday's press conference? RS looked like he'd been drinking the whole match

yes its that smug face from yesterday's presser :giggle:

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Its a wrong comparison for the simple reason that Shaw will get a special treatment that 99.8% of others don't.

 

Exceptional talents will leapfrog everyone. Only when was the question.

 

Shaw is undoubtedly the better prospect . Mayank has worked and refined his game better through

several seasons of trial and error. 

 

Mayank and Vihari have to perform consistently to get their chance.

 

Players of Exceptional promise will be fast tracked and can bull doze their way to a slot. For others, getting that slot in the indian team may require several years of consistency and a chance of luck with a vacancy.

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5 hours ago, youngindia said:

Its a wrong comparison for the simple reason that Shaw will get a special treatment that 99.8% of others don't.

 

Exceptional talents will leapfrog everyone. Only when was the question.

 

Shaw is undoubtedly the better prospect . Mayank has worked and refined his game better through

several seasons of trial and error. 

 

Mayank and Vihari have to perform consistently to get their chance.

 

Players of Exceptional promise will be fast tracked and can bull doze their way to a slot. For others, getting that slot in the indian team may require several years of consistency and a chance of luck with a vacancy.

It's precisely that trait that for me would make him a better option for now. Older, knows his game better? Shaw possibly too young and needs a season or two more in FC.

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If they had selected Siraj along with Shaw then I wouldn't have a problem with this. But it seems like Shaw has been pushed into the team because of a strong backing from Mumbai lobby, while the others are left with having to prove themselves more. Mayank Agarwal was hard done by the petty politics. 

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23 hours ago, BlueBee said:

3K runs in a season is no joke, he convinces you or not is a different thing but he's made a case for himself and a very very strong one that is.

It is precisely for this reason that he deserves a chance.. may be a run of 3 ODIs atleast

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1 hour ago, Lannister said:

If they had selected Siraj along with Shaw then I wouldn't have a problem with this. But it seems like Shaw has been pushed into the team because of a strong backing from Mumbai lobby, while the others are left with having to prove themselves more. Mayank Agarwal was hard done by the petty politics. 

Shaw is a special talent , If mumbai lobby was the reason iyer wud have gone for nair or vihari

Here on ICF many doubt mayank, m sure in cricketing circle many do to..........jst becoz u hve piled on runs in domestic doesnt gurantee u success at international level

 

N a word is taken from dravid to before selecting someone- panyda n jayant got a strong backing from dravid 

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Shaw is a special talent , If mumbai lobby was the reason iyer wud have gone for nair or vihari

Here on ICF many doubt mayank, m sure in cricketing circle many do to..........jst becoz u hve piled on runs in domestic doesnt gurantee u success at international level

 

N a word is taken from dravid to before selecting someone- panyda n jayant got a strong backing from dravid 

Iyer was also fast-tracked ahead of players like Pandey and Rahul and he just couldn't secure his place. Everyone knew he would've a hard time adjusting based on his technique and he still got his chance ahead of a well deserving players. 

 

Mayank was next-in-line with a top-performance in the last three seasons, atleast you need to award that performance otherwise there is no point in playing Ranjis. Players will eventually lose respect with the system and they will just focus on the IPL. 

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50 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Iyer was also fast-tracked ahead of players like Pandey and Rahul and he just couldn't secure his place. Everyone knew he would've a hard time adjusting based on his technique and he still got his chance ahead of a well deserving players. 

Iyer wasnt fast tracked he made tons of runs in Domestic n A tours

PAndey n rahul debut before iyer so how was he fats track ahead of him?????

Quote

Mayank was next-in-line with a top-performance in the last three seasons, atleast you need to award that performance otherwise there is no point in playing Ranjis.

Their is no fixed line, going by the line rishi dhawan was ahead of pandya

Their is no fixed rule, neither their shud be 

U find a special talent pick him, u find a better talent ...to hell with the line

 

Quote

Players will eventually lose respect with the system and they will just focus on the IPL. 

thats their problem if they loose hope so soon, international cricket wnt be easy for them if they have that attitude 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Mayank Agarwal toured for Ind A to England. He scored 69 runs @ avg of 17.25 


Shaw scored 250 runs @ avg of 62.50.
 

 

Therein lies the answer.

 

We are looking for test batsmen who can handle the moving ball.

 

Shaw has done that better than most others.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Therein lies the answer.

 

We are looking for test batsmen who can handle the moving ball.

 

Shaw has done that better than most others.

 

 

to be honest even i wasnt keen on throwing shaw so soon but with vijay failing no other option left to go for a youngster , n their no doubt he is a special talent looking at the way he punches the ball 

Their are many in line who have done well in domestic but shaw is a special talent above all  n considering like of dravid n tendulkar pushing him despite knowing his flaws suggest he may have what it takes to be on international level. 

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

to be honest even i wasnt keen on throwing shaw so soon but with vijay failing no other option left to go for a youngster , n their no doubt he is a special talent looking at the way he punches the ball 

Their are many in line who have done well in domestic but shaw is a special talent above all  n considering like of dravid n tendulkar pushing him despite knowing his flaws suggest he may have what it takes to be on international level. 

 

If a cricketer is gauged to be a special talent ... and is performing in both FC / List-A  and A-team games ... he should get a chance then.

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2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Iyer wasnt fast tracked he made tons of runs in Domestic n A tours

PAndey n rahul debut before iyer so how was he fats track ahead of him?????

Their is no fixed line, going by the line rishi dhawan was ahead of pandya

Their is no fixed rule, neither their shud be 

U find a special talent pick him, u find a better talent ...to hell with the line

 

thats their problem if they loose hope so soon, international cricket wnt be easy for them if they have that attitude 

So the tons of runs Agarwal scored doesn't get a notice, eh? There was one point where Iyer was preferred ahead of those two and that's how he was able get a lot opportunity.

 

Agarwal is currently an in-form batsman, it's not like he scored those runs couple of years ago. He's clearly head and shoulders ahead of other players in last three domestic seasons. He scored a century in a warm-up match in England A tour and an half century against WI A. The only match he failed was against Lions where he was made to bat in the middle order in order to accommodate Vijay. 

 

If consistent runs doesn't get you a chance, then why do you think the players are going to bother about Test Cricket. What's the point of playing Ranji? 

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I think IPL has become very important to show the selectors that you can do well at the international level. Mayank probably missed out due to that.

However FC performance are the first criteria to get noticed.

The likes of Surya Kumar Yadav are not in contention becuase of average FC record despite being good at the IPL.

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27 minutes ago, Lannister said:

So the tons of runs Agarwal scored doesn't get a notice, eh? There was one point where Iyer was preferred ahead of those two and that's how he was able get a lot opportunity.

 

Agarwal is currently an in-form batsman, it's not like he scored those runs couple of years ago. He's clearly head and shoulders ahead of other players in last three domestic seasons. He scored a century in a warm-up match in England A tour and an half century against WI A. The only match he failed was against Lions where he was made to bat in the middle order in order to accommodate Vijay. 

 

If consistent runs doesn't get you a chance, then why do you think the players are going to bother about Test Cricket. What's the point of playing Ranji? 

Unnoticed???? he is already in A team and in line for Indian team......if anyone fails now among opener mayank wud be next 

Shaw is also inform 

As a talent Shaw is above him 

 

Their have been ranji legends who didnt do much in international cricket , Ranji stats doesnt gurantee u sucess in international cricket . Ranji is a criteria but its isnt the only criteria 

 

If ranji becomes the only criteria then what wrong has vinay kumar done 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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29 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Unnoticed???? he is already in A team and in line for Indian team......if anyone fails now among opener mayank wud be next 

Shaw is also inform 

As a talent Shaw is above him 

 

Their have been ranji legends who didnt do much in international cricket , Ranji stats doesnt gurantee u sucess in international cricket . Ranji is a criteria but its isnt the only criteria 

 

If ranji becomes the only criteria then what wrong has vinay kumar done 

 

:laugh: It's not just about Ranji, he is also scoring runs for India A. He has just scored 200 against SA and not to mention, the performances I quoted in my previous post. If Shaw was selected on the basis of a talent, then why didn't they select Siraj? If you cannot see a clear pattern here, hen I don't know. First it was with Iyer and now Shaw. Is it the Indian Cricket we are rooting for or the Mumbai Cricket?  

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19 hours ago, Sooda said:

It's precisely that trait that for me would make him a better option for now. Older, knows his game better? Shaw possibly too young and needs a season or two more in FC.

All other things being equal..Its not equal in this case...

 

Exceptional talents are fore most priority...only then exposure for more mortal players. Exceptional players are  much greater in  value addition and are what one would call "force multiplier".... there is no equality here. Only for other players, its equal.

 

Anyone who has followed my views would know I do not recommend any u24 batsman for tests...only the odd special talent who can be one in a generation.

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30 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Mumbai Cricket?  

how many mumbai cricketers do u see in the squad

 

 

Karnataka - NAir, rahul
Saurashtra- pujrara, jadeja
delhi- ishant, dhawan, kohli, pant
mumbai- rahane, shaw, shardul
Tamil nadu- vijay, ashwin, DK
Gujrat- bumrah, hardik

 

What Mumbai cricket ????

 

30 minutes ago, Lannister said:

:laugh: It's not just about Ranji, he is also scoring runs for India A. He has just scored 200 against SA and not to mention, the performances I quoted in my previous post. If Shaw was selected on the basis of a talent, then why didn't they select Siraj? If you cannot see a clear pattern here, hen I don't know. First it was with Iyer and now Shaw. Is it the Indian Cricket we are rooting for or the Mumbai Cricket?  

N shaw is also performing on A-tour infact he did better then Mayank in england 

Ask selectors, why didnt they select siraj.......fast bowling isnt looking that bit of a problem....,btw why dont u recommend vinay kumar ahead of siraj. Opening spot ws clearly open and if dhawan fails now mayank will get in

 

Now ur question is why Shaw 1st ....many will tell u coz he is a better talent 

 

Whats the pattern??? Iyer what with him....u gave one logic that was tottaly wrong 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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23 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

how many mumbai cricketers do u see in the squad

 

 

Karnataka - NAir, rahul
Saurashtra- pujrara, jadeja
delhi- ishant, dhawan, kohli, pant
mumbai- rahane, shaw, shardul
Tamil nadu- vijay, ashwin, DK
Gujrat- bumrah, hardik

 

What Mumbai cricket ????

 

N shaw is also performing on A-tour infact he did better then Mayank in england 

Ask selectors, why didnt they select siraj.......fast bowling isnt looking that bit of a problem....,btw why dont u recommend vinay kumar ahead of siraj. Opening spot ws clearly open and if dhawan fails now mayank will get in

 

Now ur question is why Shaw 1st ....many will tell u coz he is a better talent 

 

Whats the pattern??? Iyer what with him....u gave one logic that was tottaly wrong 

And then ask yourself, how did a guy like Thakur made into the Test team ahead of Siraj who's been toiling away in domestic Cricket? The same thing is happening with Agarwal, who has been doing it for a much longer time when compared to a noob like Shaw who just played his first FC season. 

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2 minutes ago, Lannister said:

And then ask yourself, how did a guy like Thakur made into the Test team ahead of Siraj who's been toiling away in domestic Cricket?

Ask selectors why are u asking me 

HE has been on Radar for few years

U hve problem when someone gets rewarded for domestic perfomance, u hve a problem when someone talented gets a nod

 

In a team only 16-18 will get selected so u cnt keep everyone happy and not every will get a chance

2 minutes ago, Lannister said:

The same thing is happening with Agarwal, who has been doing it for a much longer time when compared to a noob like Shaw who just played his first FC season. 

Much longer doesnt matter if many rates shaw talent higher 

At the end its not about que but about who is better ( n dnt ask me that thakur question again, if selections were 100 % on mark we wud have been a much better team)

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26 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Ask selectors why are u asking me 

You are the one who is defending them. Atleast makeup your mind.

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

HE has been on Radar for few years

U hve problem when someone gets rewarded for domestic perfomance, u hve a problem when someone talented gets a nod

 

In a team only 16-18 will get selected so u cnt keep everyone happy and not every will get a chance

Much longer doesnt matter if many rates shaw talent higher 

At the end its not about que but about who is better ( n dnt ask me that thakur question again, if selections were 100 % on mark we wud have been a much better team)

So let me make it clear for you. When Thakur gets selected it's because he is finally getting rewarded for his domestic performance, who is no doubt inferior to many other bowlers interms of talent, let alone someone like Siraj.

 

And if Agarwal didnt make it, its because there's someone bigger talent than him. :giggle:

You make a fine politician.

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8 minutes ago, Lannister said:

You are the one who is defending them. Atleast makeup your mind.

Coz ur using bull crap logic of politics , where as its aclear case of considering other better 

8 minutes ago, Lannister said:

So let me make it clear for you. When Thakur gets selected it's because he is finally getting rewarded for his domestic performance, who is no doubt inferior to many other bowlers interms of talent, let alone someone like Siraj.

Every one is getting rewarded for domestic perfomance

Even shaw has performed in domestic n better then mayank on England-A tour where he is going now 

Thakur has been with this team for 1-2 yrs now so he will get the nod, i dnt agree but their is a logic and he hasnt been given a chance in 11 to even dispatch him

 

Mayank vs shaw was a choice and selectors like many thought shaw has a better talent and he has performed every where 

8 minutes ago, Lannister said:

And if Agarwal didnt make it, its because there's someone bigger talent than him. :giggle:

You make a fine politician.

Har cheez men politics dhundhte rahoge to bas kuch nhin ho sakta tumhara

 

Oh btw do u think ppl were foolish who have been calling shaw a child prodigy for years... why wasnt mayank called that 

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@Lannister

U want a logic ill give u logic

HE is selected for England tour , where both shaw n mayank went on A tours

 

Mayank Agarwal toured for Ind A to England. He scored 69 runs @ avg of 17.25 
Shaw scored 250 runs @ avg of 62.50.

 

this was the result, now u want someone avg 17.50 to be selected over someone who avg 62.50 ( clearly ur asking for something unfair)

 

 

Aggarwal made 0 n 1 against england lions who had woakes n curran( who are playing for engaland)

 

Shaw made 0 n 62 against same bowlers

 

 

Now did Mumbai lobby came n scored for shaw n gave mayank out unfairely 

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10 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Coz ur using bull crap logic of politics , where as its aclear case of considering other better 

Every one is getting rewarded for domestic perfomance

Even shaw has performed in domestic n better then mayank on England-A tour where he is going now 

Thakur has been with this team for 1-2 yrs now so he will get the nod, i dnt agree but their is a logic and he hasnt been given a chance in 11 to even dispatch him

 

Mayank vs shaw was a choice and selectors like many thought shaw has a better talent and he has performed every where 

Har cheez men politics dhundhte rahoge to bas kuch nhin ho sakta tumhara

 

Oh btw do u think ppl were foolish who have been calling shaw a child prodigy for years... why wasnt mayank called that 

Rubbish. Thakur has been mostly playing LOI cricket and his performance there is a bog average. How did that earn him a test call? And his FC bowling average is a mind-boggling 28.

 

10 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

@Lannister

U want a logic ill give u logic

HE is selected for England tour , where both shaw n mayank went on A tours

 

Mayank Agarwal toured for Ind A to England. He scored 69 runs @ avg of 17.25 
Shaw scored 250 runs @ avg of 62.50.

 

this was the result, now u want someone avg 17.50 to be selected over someone who avg 62.50 ( clearly ur asking for something unfair)

 

 

Aggarwal made 0 n 1 against england lions who had woakes n curran( who are playing for engaland)

 

Shaw made 0 n 62 against same bowlers

 

 

Now did Mumbai lobby came n scored for shaw n gave mayank out unfairely 

You are just repeating the same things. I have already answered to that. There is every reason for Mayank to feel he was hard done by some bizzare selections.  

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1 hour ago, Lannister said:

Rubbish. Thakur has been mostly playing LOI cricket and his performance there is a bog average. How did that earn him a test call? And his FC bowling average is a mind-boggling 28.

 

You are just repeating the same things. I have already answered to that. There is every reason for Mayank to feel he was hard done by some bizzare selections.  

Wasnt Thakur  top ranji wkt taker a few seasons ago. Or in the top few anyway. If anything his list A performances are less good. So whilst Ankit, Siraj and others are better prospects he deserves at least a few goes in the A team

 

Clearly Shaws performance in England gave him the nod. Can't argue with that.

 

Would like to see Mayank in a ODI squad soon.

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1 minute ago, Sooda said:

Wasnt Thakur  top ranji wkt taker a few seasons ago. Or in the top few anyway. If anything his list A performances are less good. So whilst Ankit, Siraj and others are better prospects he deserves at least a few goes in the A team

Siraj averages 19 compared to 28 by Thakur. Not to mention Thakur is just an ordinary trundler and his selection in a Test squad is a blasphemy.

 

4 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Clearly Shaws performance in England gave him the nod. Can't argue with that.

 

Would like to see Mayank in a ODI squad soon.

That may be true but Agarwal did score 100 in a warm-up game and fifty against WI A. Just recently he scored another double century against SA. He has reasons to be disappointed with the team selections. 

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5 hours ago, Lannister said:

Rubbish. Thakur has been mostly playing LOI cricket and his performance there is a bog average. How did that earn him a test call? And his FC bowling average is a mind-boggling 28.

 

You are just repeating the same things. I have already answered to that. There is every reason for Mayank to feel he was hard done by some bizzare selections.  

their is no reason for him to be disappointed, they both got chances in england against same bowlers n shaw performed 

If mayank feels sad after avg 17 well be sad 

 

Btw shardul has been decent in odi in whatever chances he got, he took a 4-fer in SA and even if shardul case is wrong doesnt mean u hve to repeat it. 2 wrongs dnt make right

Shaw is more talented and has done well in the desired test in the same country against woakes n curran 

 

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

their is no reason for him to be disappointed, they both got chances in england against same bowlers n shaw performed 

If mayank feels sad after avg 17 well be sad 

 

Btw shardul has been decent in odi in whatever chances he got, he took a 4-fer in SA and even if shardul case is wrong doesnt mean u hve to repeat it. 2 wrongs dnt make right

Shaw is more talented and has done well in the desired test in the same country against woakes n curran 

 

You are just nitpicking here. Like I said Agarwal has been doing it for a much longer period even before we heard anything about Shaw and he has set some domestic records to his name. To just casually throw it all away just because he couldn't score runs in a match where he was made to bat in the middle order is just biased and disrespectful. I think we are done here. Let's just agree to disagree and leave at it. 

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55 minutes ago, Lannister said:

You are just nitpicking here. Like I said Agarwal has been doing it for a much longer period even before we heard anything about Shaw and he has set some domestic records to his name. To just casually throw it all away just because he couldn't score runs in a match where he was made to bat in the middle order is just biased and disrespectful. I think we are done here. Let's just agree to disagree and leave at it. 

Last season Agarwal scored 5 tons in 8 matches.

 

Before that it was 3 in 34 matches, idk what his average was until 2016/17 it'd be interesting to know.

 

He's been around for a while but was well below average until last season. If he gets picked it will be reward for one spectacular season not consistency over a period of time like say Panchal. 

 

There is an element of judgement here too, I don't know what either of these guys are like but I have to trust the selectors judgement that Prithvi is the best option  for now.

 

And it's not like Mayank is getting ignored altogether. Long run for the A team and Obviously next in line and he'd be picked for an odi squad if an opener slot was available

 

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2 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Last season Agarwal scored 5 tons in 8 matches.

 

Before that it was 3 in 34 matches, idk what his average was until 2016/17 it'd be interesting to know.

 

He's been around for a while but was well below average until last season. If he gets picked it will be reward for one spectacular season not consistency over a period of time like say Panchal. 

 

There is an element of judgement here too, I don't know what either of these guys are like but I have to trust the selectors judgement that Prithvi is the best option  for now.

 

And it's not like Mayank is getting ignored altogether. Long run for the A team and Obviously next in line and he'd be picked for an odi squad if an opener slot was available

 

    Here my cue would be Vengsarkar's view even though he is a mumbaikar  i trust his selection judgement .

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16 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Last season Agarwal scored 5 tons in 8 matches.

 

Before that it was 3 in 34 matches, idk what his average was until 2016/17 it'd be interesting to know.

 

He's been around for a while but was well below average until last season. If he gets picked it will be reward for one spectacular season not consistency over a period of time like say Panchal. 


 

 

Very good point.

 

And Shaw has scored and scored right from the start of his FC career.  Averaging 56.7 after 14 FC games with 7 centuries.  Achieving this average without any double century, which shows incredible consistency showcased by 12   50+ scores from 26 innings.

 

Moreover, Shaw is a special talent whose ceiling can be very high if he comes good.  Has to be tried as soon as possible.

 

But I would like to see how his off stump game and short ball game is against quality pace bowling.

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On 8/24/2018 at 1:10 PM, Lannister said:

If they had selected Siraj along with Shaw then I wouldn't have a problem with this. But it seems like Shaw has been pushed into the team because of a strong backing from Mumbai lobby, while the others are left with having to prove themselves more. Mayank Agarwal was hard done by the petty politics. 

I agree....Mayank is ready and more mature, Shaw should be picked one year later , as of today Mayank is ready and better than shaw.

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On 8/24/2018 at 4:41 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Mayank Agarwal toured for Ind A to England. He scored 69 runs @ avg of 17.25 
Shaw scored 250 runs @ avg of 62.50.
 

He doesn't look convincing to me as also Shreyas Iyer. Iyer however did not get proper chance and has not done bad in limited opportunity he got.

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