Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Let's be straight about it, it's simply a set of many indic cultural beliefs put under a one umbrella term by the lazy British EIC who couldn't be bothered to research more on the subject. There are no fixed set of beliefs or religious scriptures. Every region has its own sort of variations in the common cultural practices. There's no one single authority. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. In fact it's the best thing ever which shows we aren't tied to a fix no of stone age beliefs like the desert religions. It gives a plenty of scope to evolve which in the philosophy of human evolution makes perfect sense. My only issue with it is calling these practices as a religion. We are a Dharma which is very different from your usual religion as understood by the Abrahamics. Alam_dar and sandeep 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 all beliefs are closely related and overlap .. shiva is the main deity of shaivism and acknowledge the existence of vishnu.. vishnu is the main deity of vaishnavism and acknowledge the existence of shiva.. and this applies to all the other sects in hindusim as well .. Alam_dar and sandeep 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, velu said: all beliefs are closely related and overlap .. shiva is the main deity of shaivism and acknowledge the existence of vishnu.. vishnu is the main deity of vaishnavism and acknowledge the existence of shiva.. and this applies to all the other sects in hindusim as well .. In that sense many beliefs of Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism intersect each other as well. Heck I know Jains who worship hindu idols and Sikhs who visit Vaishnodevi. Why consider them as a separate religion then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Stradlater said: In that sense many beliefs of Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism intersect each other as well. Heck I know Jains who worship hindu idols and Sikhs who visit Vaishnodevi. Why consider them as a separate religion then? all are vedic religions i consider jainism as subset of Hinduism .. Edited August 27, 2018 by velu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, velu said: all are vedic religions i consider jainism as subset of Hinduism .. I know all indic beliefs are basically rooted in a same philosophy. That's why use of Dharma is more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, Stradlater said: I know all indic beliefs are basically rooted in a same philosophy. That's why use of Dharma is more appropriate. dharma or vedic .. again someone like you will create a thread in ICF and question why it is called as dharmic religion instead of hinduism ? sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, velu said: dharma or vedic .. again someone like you will create a thread in ICF and question why it is called as dharmic religion instead of hinduism ? Simply Dharma I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikhil_cric Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, velu said: all are vedic religions i consider jainism as subset of Hinduism .. Jainism is certainly not a subset of Hinduism. Jina dharma does not accept the infallibility of the Vedas and that is essential to all branches of Hinduism. Neither do the Sikhs, Carvakas, Buddhists etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: Jainism is certainly not a subset of Hinduism. Jina dharma does not accept the infallibility of the Vedas and that is essential to all branches of Hinduism. Neither do the Sikhs, Carvakas, Buddhists etc. infact we study religion in tamil language class .. under hindiusm tab we study shiva , vishnu , jain , murugan , buddism etc.. the Hinduism i follow is heavily influenced by jainism or they got converted to hinduism gradually .. western tamilnadu and southern Karnataka have this influence .. google sharavanabelgola hindusim is just an umberla term .. Edited August 27, 2018 by velu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: Jainism is certainly not a subset of Hinduism. Jina dharma does not accept the infallibility of the Vedas and that is essential to all branches of Hinduism. Neither do the Sikhs, Carvakas, Buddhists etc. Many Hindu philosophies do not accept the infallibility of Vedas including Samkhya. Believing in Supremacy of Vedas is not a pre condition to be a Hindu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 damn it .. we got slavic hinduism as well i am ready to become a hindu guru now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, velu said: damn it .. we got slavic hinduism as well i am ready to become a hindu guru now Some hindu philosophies do not even believe in existence of a powerful, omniscient and omnipotent God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moochad Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 It's a broad word that catches many different things. It isn't really accurate but it is what it is velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikhil_cric Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Stradlater said: Many Hindu philosophies do not accept the infallibility of Vedas including Samkhya. Believing in Supremacy of Vedas is not a pre condition to be a Hindu. Regardless , I think we can safely draw the line between Jainism, with regards to their ideas of karma, moksha etc, and Hinduism. Far too many differences. They were always considered heterodox even if the practices of Jains and Hindus do resemble each other to some superficial extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: Regardless , I think we can safely draw the line between Jainism, with regards to their ideas of karma, moksha etc, and Hinduism. Far too many differences. They were always considered heterodox even if the practices of Jains and Hindus do resemble each other to some superficial extent. Heterodox doesn't mean out of Sanatana fold. It simply meant rejecting Vedas as superior scriptures. There are many such schools which are different from mainstream Hinduism in that regard and yet considered part of it in modern times. How does Tantric Hinduism fits in your regular Hinduism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Stradlater said: In that sense many beliefs of Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism intersect each other as well. Heck I know Jains who worship hindu idols and Sikhs who visit Vaishnodevi. Why consider them as a separate religion then? You are making ample demonstration of your ignorance in this thread. Your premise itself is totally flawed, and this post baited me into responding. Buddhism does not accept hindu dieties as Godhead. It does share the fundamental belief in re-incarnation and nirvana as a structural basis for faith. Jainism does not share Hindu Gods either - Orthodox Jains and their temples actually claim that their faith is more ancient than Hindu Gods, and has a completely different nomenclature for the Gods - so that the idols are same, but names are different. In fact, in Jainism, 'Gods' are not to be worshipped, but their idols are present in their temples due to popularity, and if you ever find yourself in one, you would note that each "Hindu" idol has a disclaimer printed below it, that the Idols are not to be prayed to. If a Hindu says a prayer and bows his head at a Churh, or expresses respect at a dargah, it doesn't make him a Christian or a muslim. And if a Jain adherent chooses to worship Ganesh, doesn't make him Hindu. velu, sarcastic and Stradlater 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, sandeep said: You are making ample demonstration of your ignorance in this thread. Your premise itself is totally flawed, and this post baited me into responding. Buddhism does not accept hindu dieties as Godhead. It does share the fundamental belief in re-incarnation and nirvana as a structural basis for faith. Jainism does not share Hindu Gods either - Orthodox Jains and their temples actually claim that their faith is more ancient than Hindu Gods, and has a completely different nomenclature for the Gods - so that the idols are same, but names are different. In fact, in Jainism, 'Gods' are not to be worshipped, but their idols are present in their temples due to popularity, and if you ever find yourself in one, you would note that each "Hindu" idol has a disclaimer printed below it, that the Idols are not to be prayed to. If a Hindu says a prayer and bows his head at a Churh, or expresses respect at a dargah, it doesn't make him a Christian or a muslim. And if a Jain adherent chooses to worship Ganesh, doesn't make him Hindu. Umm many sects in Hinduism such as Bishnois etc do not believe in Hindu deities either and yet are considered as part of Hinduism. You are basing your argument on the mainstream Hinduism as it evolved after the Gupta period and practiced by the modern Hindus now a days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Dharam is translated as religion. Should it be translated as faith...or is there another term that can be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 direct translation of dharma is righteousness ? guess every religion says the same thing about it .. we can close the argument that Hinduism is just the umbrella term .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourneyMan Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 You have diversity in most religions. There isnt one single form of Judaism, Christianity or Islam either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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