Brainfade Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Pattern nterpretation may vary depending on whether or not the guy is hurt. While in one case one may say that the 7fer test meant he had figured Sena bowling out but got hurt; in the other case the 7fer test would be an aberration. It's just a bit extreme to say drop him and/or don't take spinners at all based on today's lack of effectiveness. What if he takes 2 fifers in the next test? Will we turn back (no pun intended) to the other side? Body of work can be considered after more data are in. Your bell curve would be stronger. Link to comment
zen Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Brainfade said: Pattern nterpretation may vary depending on whether or not the guy is hurt. While in one case one may say that the 7fer test meant he had figured Sena bowling out but got hurt; in the other case the 7fer test would be an aberration. It's just a bit extreme to say drop him and/or don't take spinners at all based on today's lack of effectiveness. What if he takes 2 fifers in the next test? Will we turn back (no pun intended) to the other side? Body of work can be considered after more data are in. Your bell curve would be stronger. This is not about the player but do we need ineffective spinners playing tests in SENA unless of course the exceptions as laid out in the OP Note that I have supported Ashwin as he can use the new ball too, offering versatility .... But this was a shockingly bad performance when he needed to put his hand up. I don’t see other spinners who are currently good enough to do the job in typical SENA conditions hence the thread Link to comment
Wall2018 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 If Ashwin is not taking wkts.. he is useless..just drop him.. same goes to other players also... Link to comment
Vk1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 7 hours ago, chewy said: Not going to blame Ashwin His record in England is on par with other visiting spinners from other teams, or even better But felt he could have adjusted his pace and length quicker considering his experience if there is any blame, has to be the batsmen, bunch of amateurs I remember Yasir shah winning tests on these pitches. Infact Graeme Swann too has done well. We have got to concede that Ashwin in turning overseas pitches cannot meet the demands and move on. Frustrated and express bowling 2 Link to comment
ravishingravi Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 No. Jadeja is a great option. He also provides batting depth. And he can be accurate. Link to comment
ravishingravi Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 3 hours ago, zen said: This is not about the player but do we need ineffective spinners playing tests in SENA unless of course the exceptions as laid out in the OP Note that I have supported Ashwin as he can use the new ball too, offering versatility .... But this was a shockingly bad performance when he needed to put his hand up. I don’t see other spinners who are currently good enough to do the job in typical SENA conditions hence the thread Think it is the pressure. After Moeen’s perfomance, he did not cope well with expectations. saik 1 Link to comment
Brainfade Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 So, it's clear now that Ashwin was carrying a groin injury in Test 4. You can argue the merits of playing playing an injured player. But, one cannot question Ashwin's skill nor can one make a case for never playing a spinner in SENA. Now if one said "Never play an injured spinner," ... completely agree. https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-england-team-management-ties-itself-in-knots-over-ashwin-fitness/story-G2TMvhxiJleIpcIUlojY9K.html Link to comment
wanted_desi Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Brainfade said: So, it's clear now that Ashwin was carrying a groin injury in Test 4. You can argue the merits of playing playing an injured player. But, one cannot question Ashwin's skill nor can one make a case for never playing a spinner in SENA. Now if one said "Never play an injured spinner," ... completely agree. https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-england-team-management-ties-itself-in-knots-over-ashwin-fitness/story-G2TMvhxiJleIpcIUlojY9K.html Clueless management! They messed up Bhuvi first by playing him for useless ODI match, and now playing Ashwin where a decent fit spinner would have won the game. Fire everyone! From Coaches/Manager/Physio. A Waterboy would be able to do better job than staff. Brainfade, Lannister, GolGappe and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment
Brainfade Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, wanted_desi said: Clueless management! They messed up Bhuvi first by playing him for useless ODI match, and now playing Ashwin where a decent fit spinner would have won the game. Fire everyone! From Coaches/Manager/Physio. A Waterboy would be able to do better job than staff. Still can't fathom why they would do it. Sometimes you got to protect the competitive player from himself. Link to comment
zen Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Brainfade said: So, it's clear now that Ashwin was carrying a groin injury in Test 4. You can argue the merits of playing playing an injured player. But, one cannot question Ashwin's skill nor can one make a case for never playing a spinner in SENA. Now if one said "Never play an injured spinner," ... completely agree. https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-england-team-management-ties-itself-in-knots-over-ashwin-fitness/story-G2TMvhxiJleIpcIUlojY9K.html read the OP "unless of ATG level (Warne, Murali, Chandra, etc. ) or conditions are relatively spin friendly or the spinner is in excellent form .... Discuss PS also consider that, unlike in the past, our pace bowling is strong" Link to comment
Brainfade Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, zen said: read the OP "unless of ATG level (Warne, Murali, Chandra, etc. ) or conditions are relatively spin friendly or the spinner is in excellent form .... Discuss PS also consider that, unlike in the past, our pace bowling is strong" Ashwin was in good form; he'd just taken 7 wkts in a test match in the same series. He is our premier matchwinner. If he's 100% fit, and in good form, he walks in. The problem is he wasn't 100% fit. Big blunder by mgmt. saik 1 Link to comment
zen Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Brainfade said: Ashwin was in good form; he'd just taken 7 wkts in a test match in the same series. He is our premier matchwinner. If he's 100% fit, and in good form, he walks in. The problem is he wasn't 100% fit. Big blunder by mgmt. He had 8 days before the test and could have informed the management so can't hide behind the fitness .... it was a bad performance PS I like him as a player though Edited September 7, 2018 by zen Link to comment
The Dark Horse Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 5 hours ago, zen said: He had 8 days before the test and could have informed the management so can't hide behind the fitness .... it was a bad performance PS I like him as a player though Not the first time a player played with a niggle..so not entirely Ashwin's fault. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 7 hours ago, wanted_desi said: Clueless management! They messed up Bhuvi first by playing him for useless ODI match, and now playing Ashwin where a decent fit spinner would have won the game. Fire everyone! From Coaches/Manager/Physio. A Waterboy would be able to do better job than staff. It's player's fault, not management. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Dark Horse said: Not the first time a player played with a niggle..so not entirely Ashwin's fault. It's Ashwin's fault. if he was injured, he should not have played. Edited September 8, 2018 by rkt.india Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I am not sure our spinners know how tweaking the ball with more revs is important in England. Floating the ball up is easier to negotiate. You need a strong pivot. Only those who do that get some purchase. Swann, Lyon, Ali, Murali. Aggressive tweaking ability is needed with the duke ball. High time we look for a spinner who can spin the ball anywhere sharply. Even Jaddu is more a darter than a tweaker. Any under 19 prospect? How about Gautam? He could strike as well. Can he tweak? zen 1 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: I am not sure our spinners know how tweaking the ball with more revs is important in England. Floating the ball up is easier to negotiate. You need a strong pivot. Only those who do that get some purchase. Swann, Lyon, Ali, Murali. Aggressive tweaking ability is needed with the duke ball. High time we look for a spinner who can spin the ball anywhere sharply. Even Jaddu is more a darter than a tweaker. Any under 19 prospect? How about Gautam? He could strike as well. Can he tweak? Its about hitting right areas even you are not tweaking the ball. Jadeja did that today. Ashwin did not in last game. He was all over the place. You dont need to tweak a lot spin the ball from the rough like Moeen and Lyon does. Its their flight that is different to Ashwin. Ashwin isnt a flight bowler. Moeen and Lyon beat the batsmen through their trajectory more than just turn. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Its about hitting right areas even you are not tweaking the ball. Jadeja did that today. Ashwin did not in last game. He was all over the place. You dont need to tweak a lot spin the ball from the rough like Moeen and Lyon does. Its their flight that is different to Ashwin. Ashwin isnt a flight bowler. Moeen and Lyon beat the batsmen through their trajectory more than just turn. If you want to take wickets you need to tweak. Otherwise you will end up bowling lot of overs and doing nothing. Moeen Ali doesn't have any magic deliveries. HE just aggressively tweaks, spins. Overspin, drift. Ashwin relies on ball helping him rather him helping the ball especially when it is not SG ball. Link to comment
The Dark Horse Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: It's Ashwin's fault. if he was injured, he should not have played. Same thing happened with Bumrah, Bhuvi, Saha...how is the management not responsible? He was even sent to bat when they were leading comfortably..Agree Ashwin has prime responsibility....Why is there a coach, support staff and physios if they can't tell him not to play? Link to comment
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said: Same thing happened with Bumrah, Bhuvi, Saha...how is the management not responsible? He was even sent to bat when they were leading comfortably..Agree Ashwin has prime responsibility....Why is there a coach, support staff and physios if they can't tell him not to play? Bumrah got injured during the game so there was nothing in Bumrah's case. it is the mistake of individual player when they play despite not feeling fit. A player needs to tell the management that he is not fit to play. How would management know otherwise if he is fit or not. Anyway, Ashwin did not show any signs of injury while in the field or while batting. Link to comment
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