So another overseas failure - 8th straight SENA series defeat - Need to rebuild Again!

[chewy 2,315]

Changed captain, changed batting personnel, changed bowling personnel

but defeats continue since the horror show in England 2011.

 

I remember all his booha about changing domestic pitches and increased A tours to get players more equipped for overseas series.

 

But same old, same old...batting crumbles, sometimes bowlers take 1-2 Test matches to get their line and length adjusted, poor slip fielding, poor team selection, poor player fitness management

 

Alot of the players introduced to take over mentle of Sehwag, Dravid, Tendu, Laxman have been below par, they have been playing now for over four years and taken India to No.1 on home strength but feel they have reached their limits and just aren't good for next step up...to win series in NZ, Eng, SA and Aus.

 

Time to phase out likes of Dhawan, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit, Ashwin, Ishant...the rebuilding phase was completed two years ago, they did well in Asia but these bunch of players just haven't got the quality

[zen 5,666]

Strategically and tactically, Ind is weak .... it is not just in sports but in other domains too .... we also play cricketers based on past records and bhaichara, while failing to infuse youngsters at the right time 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zen 5,666]

If we have to rebuild in tests, WI series is a good opportunity 

[Frustrated 368]

Just before India departed for England tour , Shastri was saying in the press conference that this team would create history.   .  Wonder where the bewda would be hiding after the 1-4 drubbing. 

[SK_IH 3,213]

Only positive is a captain leading from the front however he too is defensive amd reactive and absolutely naive in so far as tactics and strategies are concerned,a dud coach does not help either.

 I don't like the fact how our bowling leader starts changing every year.Its a disgrace that someone like Bumrah who made his debut  early this year is our supposed leader and bowling maximum overs.Thats why I like to see Ishant finally getting dumped for good,this guy still can't be dependent upon to lead an attack and bowl enough match winning spells.

In spin,I think anyways Ashwin was never gonna be an asset in Australia,so I ll like to Kuldeep playing all games down under.

And about the lower middle order batting and supposed all rounder.We have compromised our batting on this tour by depending on likes of Pandya and Ashwin in crucial numbers,this has to change for good.

In so far as batting is concerned,Rahane spot should be looked at ,consistency has to be a criteria for selection which he fails miserably.Otherwise I think batting has to be backed with inclusion of one rookie may be.

 

 

[express bowling 23,770]

The only issue we have faced regarding this round of Sena tours ...

 

Not enough practice matches and not enough practice time with the red ball before the 2 test series.

 

If we had played 3 practice matches with the red ball before both tours ... we could have some much better.

 

Our fast bowling unit has done really well as a unit on both tours.

 

Kohli has performed superbly.  Pujara and Rahane have contributed during the later stages of both tours. Openers have given decent starts from test 3 of this series.

 

More practice games is the answer regarding this team.

 

 

Edited September 2 by express bowling

[beetle 12,834]

Which team is winning easily in away series consistently?

This is how things are .

Winning away series is a big ask .

We are not doing good but not too bad either this series.

 

We can still win this test if we get 2-3 good partnerships.

If not...we can hope to win next because it is not like we are so outclassed that winning is not possible.

We have a 50 -50 chance in this match and the next match.

 

We are the number one team but not so far ahead of others that we should expect miracles in away series.

 

The team is underperforming slightly .

Our expectations are too much.

 

 

 

[jf1gp_1 781]

take the second test and 3rd ODI out apart from that we played good cricket. Even this test we did well. Overall it was a good tour. 

[Frustrated 368]

2 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

take the second test and 3rd ODI out apart from that we played good cricket. Even this test we did well. Overall it was a good tour. 

We were pathetic in the 2nd ODI as well.  We were never in that game right from the start till the end.     I don't think it's a good tour if we lose odi and test series without giving a fight and win just T20 (a format which nobody cares about)

[NareshK 341]

India has traditionally been poor in SENA countries. We usually win one test or none in whole series. To expect miracles all of a sudden is stretching a bit too much. Fast bowling and catching has improved. Batting could have been better but there's promise.

 

With better preparation, India could have won this series and the one in SA.

 

Going forward, BCCI needs to invest in specialists in test formats especially for openers and fast bowlers.

[CG 1,567]

Wait till the match is over.

[rtmohanlal 846]

has been saying this several times. This team simply doesn't have the all round batting variety &  skill to succeed as a unit in all conditions.

As of now only Kohli & Rahane are the 2  above par performers  having been  brilliant in 3 out of the 4 of SENA. All the others in top 6 are far from adequate. And there is not a single player in this batting unit  who averages 40+ in ENG. That says a lot. This mainly happend because of the  team management's reluctance to test talented youngsters in home matches,dead rubbers , against lower ranked teams etc etc.Instead they persisted with proven failures like Dhawan,Pujara etc.Pujara's name may raise a few eye brows, but he has been far from being consistant in SENA. Only a complete hack left handed batsman in the top 6!!!!! To add to that, treating one day matches as preparation for test matches!!!!! How can this team succeed???

Edited September 2 by rtmohanlal

[chewy 2,315]

1 hour ago, beetle said:

Which team is winning easily in away series consistently?

This is how things are .

Winning away series is a big ask .

We are not doing good but not too bad either this series.

 

We can still win this test if we get 2-3 good partnerships.

If not...we can hope to win next because it is not like we are so outclassed that winning is not possible.

We have a 50 -50 chance in this match and the next match.

 

We are the number one team but not so far ahead of others that we should expect miracles in away series.

 

The team is underperforming slightly .

Our expectations are too much.

 

 

 

but that’s the thing, now 60 years of playing Tests, many fans (well on ICF) want the next step  up, not content dominating just at home but win those first series in Aus and SA

 

there were valid reasons for lack of success before

 

but now India has the plenty of resources and vast player pool but continue to falter, and failings are coming from India’s supposedly stronger discipline, batting. 

 

[raki05 2,528]

8 hours ago, zen said:

Strategically and tactically, Ind is weak .... it is not just in sports but in other domains too .... we also play cricketers based on past records and bhaichara, while failing to infuse youngsters at the right time 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forget about incompetent selectors and coach there are people here who endorse for bhaichara brigade over youngsters.

[raki05 2,528]

2 hours ago, beetle said:

Which team is winning easily in away series consistently?

This is how things are .

Winning away series is a big ask .

We are not doing good but not too bad either this series.

 

We can still win this test if we get 2-3 good partnerships.

If not...we can hope to win next because it is not like we are so outclassed that winning is not possible.

We have a 50 -50 chance in this match and the next match.

 

We are the number one team but not so far ahead of others that we should expect miracles in away series.

 

The team is underperforming slightly .

Our expectations are too much.

 

 

 

But I am really disappointed with our batting effort other than kohli and to some extent pujara our batting is total failure. It would have been better if experience guys like pujara/ Rahane and dhwan who has past experience in playing in these conditions should have shown more commitments from the start, I m sure we could have won first test. New guys or guys playing first time in these conditions are bound to fail, but senior player like rahane/pujara and dhwan should have performed from the start to win overhere.

[Sgattick10 1,946]

Our bowling attack is fine, maybe add a couple more so we can rotate them to avoid injury and fatigue. 

Batting is our biggest concern, apart from Virat none of the batters are consistent performers overseas. We need to identify 2 good openers with good offstump game and technique, catch them young and give a full series. Constant chopping and changing of openers also affects the team. Another problem is Virat being sole superstar batsmen and performer makes too powerful he knows there's no one to challange his captaincy in the team ... that makes him arrogant and lets him pick his favorites.

[beetle 12,834]

39 minutes ago, raki05 said:

But I am really disappointed with our batting effort other than kohli and to some extent pujara our batting is total failure. It would have been better if experience guys like pujara/ Rahane and dhwan who has past experience in playing in these conditions should have shown more commitments from the start, I m sure we could have won first test. New guys or guys playing first time in these conditions are bound to fail, but senior player like rahane/pujara and dhwan should have performed from the start to win overhere.

True...very disappointed with Rahane and vijay .I expected them to do well.

[Frustrated 368]

As an Indian fan we should be happy if we can atleast draw a series in SENA countries .  Like how Pakistan drew 2-2 in 2016 in England.   Nobody is expecting India to win.    But unfortunately even that is not happening. Which is very disappointing.  There seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.  

[Tibarn 2,357]

With the tour of Australia in mind, I don't think we need a total rebuild.

 

We need a couple of new batsmen, particularly openers. I don't mind our 3-5 for Australia, assuming Pujara carries his new form in the tests between Aussie tour and now. Kohli and Rahane have a good record in Australia. 

 

Ashwin is a big question. All confidence in him is gone after this match, although that may be an overreaction. 

 

The fast bowlers are good enough as of now, based on the current performance. 

[GolGappe 411]

India at best is a solid mid-tier team when playing away from home.

Great teams are not built on the back of one great batsman.

 

India is already a batsman short due to Hardik's selection and Pujara/Rahane haven't been consistent enough to provide enough support to Kohli. Openers have been disappointment away from home.

 

I don't back our last 6 to score 50 runs in a pressure situation.

 

On top of it, India's piss poor attitude towards warm up games, some really bizarre selections,  and somewhat bad luck with tosses hasn't helped.

 

But as beetle said, in recent times, not even a single side has been consistently impressive playing away from home.

 

 

[chewy 2,315]

4 hours ago, GolGappe said:

India at best is a solid mid-tier team when playing away from home.

Great teams are not built on the back of one great batsman.

 

India is already a batsman short due to Hardik's selection and Pujara/Rahane haven't been consistent enough to provide enough support to Kohli. Openers have been disappointment away from home.

 

I don't back our last 6 to score 50 runs in a pressure situation.

 

On top of it, India's piss poor attitude towards warm up games, some really bizarre selections,  and somewhat bad luck with tosses hasn't helped.

 

But as beetle said, in recent times, not even a single side has been consistently impressive playing away from home.

 

 

Yep, it has been a good just short of 4 years under Kohli captaincy tenure, solidyfing India No.1 rank based on home performances. But time to re-build.

Need two openers, Pujara and Rahane need to be phased out. And Pandya and Ashwin needs to go back to domestics. 

That's 5-6 new players needed to brought in

[AmreekanDesi 155]

I think people are being harsh here.

 

this is not ideal or good obviously but much better than 2011 and 2014

 

in this series we have been almost equal or better than England for 3 of the four matches. We have been very competitive and it’s been fine margins

 

in 2011 and 2014 the gulf between us and England was so vast that it was embarassing. We weren’t ever in the game 

[Vilander 6,646]

Need one solid batsman.  Need to replace hardik or Ash with a proper batsman and hope the rest of bowlers do a great job.  Batting is failing. 

 

Replace kl Rahul and dhawan with anyone. 

[LordPrabhzy 1,054]

12 hours ago, Frustrated said:

Just before India departed for England tour , Shastri was saying in the press conference that this team would create history.   .  Wonder where the bewda would be hiding after the 1-4 drubbing. 

he actually meant the amount of beers they would watch him drink or how many selfies they can take as humanly possible.

[Sgattick10 1,946]

In post match analysis, Gavaskar said some if these players need to go back to domestic matches... not just dropped from team but dropped from squad so they feel the pinch of sitting out. And come back as better players like how  Moeen was dropped after Aus series and he made a great comeback. I agree, players like Rahul, Pandya, Ashwin needs go out ..perform at domestic and make a comeback again if they are good enough.

[Lala 1,197]

India's fear of SENA will remain for another decade I'm sure. India needs to make green tracks and atleast play one test on every home series. It's not all about lose a match at home for experiments. It's just planing for future to avoid series loses in SENA. One win here and there does not make any sense at a expense of series lose. Therefore BCCI should set one green tracks for every home series in order to get use to swing, bouncy conditions. 

[MultiB48 1,128]

i think they need to space out the tours,have one sena tour every year, rather than have them back to back .Otherwise for 3 yrs there arent many of these tours and then suddenly you need to adjust .