Tibarn Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) Another poster mentioned our play vs spin, so I wanted to look through our current and past players to see what their averages vs spin are/were (based off of dismissal data) M. Vijay http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/237095.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2008-2018 67 8 19 27 0 13 0 0 0 0 25.55 7 spin bowler 2009-2018 31 2 12 4 4 9 0 0 0 0 69.74 0 mixture/unknown 2014-2016 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 15.50 0 KL Rahul http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/422108.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2014-2018 31 10 8 9 0 4 0 0 0 0 27.41 4 spin bowler 2014-2017 13 1 9 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 51.30 0 mixture/unknown 2017-2017 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 57.00 0 S Dhawan http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28235.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2013-2018 34 5 17 9 0 3 0 0 0 0 33.32 4 spin bowler 2013-2018 21 1 12 1 2 5 0 0 0 0 53.95 0 V Kohli http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2011-2018 71 4 33 19 0 15 0 0 0 0 40.53 6 spin bowler 2011-2018 39 3 22 3 0 10 1 0 0 0 67.71 0 mixture/unknown 2012-2012 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 22.00 0 C Pujara http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2010-2018 54 13 17 17 0 7 0 0 0 0 40.27 2 spin bowler 2010-2018 34 7 18 2 1 6 0 0 0 0 50.85 0 mixture/unknown 2012-2018 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 14.14 2 A Rahane http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/277916.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2013-2018 37 2 17 10 0 8 0 0 0 0 33.51 2 spin bowler 2013-2018 37 7 21 1 3 5 0 0 0 0 35.43 3 MS Dhoni http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28081.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2006-2014 88 9 40 30 0 9 0 0 0 0 27.81 8 spin bowler 2005-2014 34 6 22 1 3 2 0 0 0 0 37.47 2 mixture/unknown 2006-2014 6 0 0 1 0 1 0 4 0 0 53.33 0 S Ganguly http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28779.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 1996-2008 111 19 55 23 0 14 0 0 0 0 34.38 10 spin bowler 1996-2008 56 7 30 6 4 9 0 0 0 0 44.46 3 mixture/unknown 2001-2004 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 21.25 0 V Sehwag http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2001-2013 123 21 58 27 0 17 0 0 0 0 38.21 15 spin bowler 2002-2013 42 9 24 2 4 3 0 0 0 0 74.09 1 mixture/unknown 2001-2012 9 1 0 1 1 1 0 5 0 0 46.22 0 G Gambhir http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28763.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 2004-2016 70 13 20 21 0 16 0 0 0 0 33.85 7 spin bowler 2004-2016 25 2 11 2 1 9 0 0 0 0 64.12 0 mixture/unknown 2004-2014 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 26.00 0 VVS Laxman http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30750.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 1996-2012 128 35 52 28 0 12 1 0 0 0 32.00 14 spin bowler 1996-2012 54 4 30 6 5 9 0 0 0 0 40.24 0 mixture/unknown 2001-2011 9 0 1 1 0 0 0 7 0 0 39.11 0 R Dravid http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28114.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 1996-2012 167 43 49 53 0 22 0 0 0 0 39.65 6 spin bowler 1996-2011 69 12 36 10 1 10 0 0 0 0 53.43 1 mixture/unknown 1999-2011 18 0 2 1 0 2 0 13 0 0 58.16 1 SR Tendulkar http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary Dismissal summary Grouping Span Dis bwd c fie c wk st lbw hw ro oth no Ave 0s pace bowler 1989-2013 191 45 71 36 0 39 0 0 0 0 42.66 12 spin bowler 1989-2013 92 9 54 5 1 23 0 0 0 0 50.02 2 mixture/unknown 1989-2013 13 0 2 1 0 1 0 9 0 0 26.46 0 Total by Avg vs Spin Over 70 Sehwag Over 60 Gambhir Kohli Vijay Over 50 Tendulkar Dravid Pujara Dhawan Rahul Over 40 Laxman Ganguly Over 30 Rahane Dhoni Below 30 None So, the data is interesting. What do you guys think? Do the averages vs spin confirm or defy your expectations? Which group do you think is/was better vs spin, our current batsmen or our former batsmen? Edited September 2, 2018 by Tibarn velu and Moochad 1 1 Link to comment
zen Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 After a quick glance, From the current lot, only Kohli and Pujara have done well against both type of bowlers Former batsmen played ATG spinners such as Warne and Murali. Even Saqlain, Swann, etc., were pretty good too When you throw someone like Sehwag in to the mix, it automatically tilts the balance in favor of former batsmen Link to comment
R.D forever Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Problem is no one out of current lot can sweep. Anything outside off should be swept away Link to comment
Number Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 No doubt we have badly regressed against the spin I won't even look at stats for this one. Spinners who look ordinary against other teams are troubling us. Link to comment
vayuu1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, zen said: After a quick glance, From the current lot, only Kohli and Pujara have done well against both type of bowlers Former batsmen played ATG spinners such as Warne and Murali. Even Saqlain, Swann, etc., were pretty good too When you throw someone like Sehwag in to the mix, it automatically tilts the balance in favor of former batsmen You know why coz sehwag never let spin dictate terms they were scared of him, sehwag would have smashed Ali to oblivion, the thing is none of our current bats barring Kohli and pujara have decisive footwork and look for strike rotation sums up the whole problem, sehwag was genius in this regard sensible-indian, zen, diehardpacer and 1 other 4 Link to comment
vayuu1 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 minute ago, R.D forever said: Problem is no one out of current lot can sweep. Anything outside off should be swept away Exactly I have been saying this you need to do something to disturb their rythem,no spinner likes it. Stan AF 1 Link to comment
zen Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Batting master class by Ind's most impactful test batsman: velu and Straight Drive 1 1 Link to comment
Tibarn Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 People are underrating our current lot I think. Vijay/Kohli both average over 60 Dhawan/Rahul/Pujara all avg over 50 vs spin Only Rahane is looking bad here at 35.3 @Moochad Look at the stats for Rahane, Laxman and MSD. They all avg lower than players who come in at the top of the order. Of the players who average over 60, 3 are openers: Sehwag, Gambhir, and Vijay. This kind of supports what you were saying the other day. There is no way Laxman and MSD and could average so low vs spin if they were up the order, methinks Moochad 1 Link to comment
WC2011INDIA Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, R.D forever said: Problem is no one out of current lot can sweep. Anything outside off should be swept away I once saw the marathi sweeping against Australia in India...but the guy does that once in a blue moon i.e. when in the right frame of mind...most of the time tatti is activated in his head. Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Moeen , in rhythm, is a very good spinner. It's time we accept that. anish2tweet 1 Link to comment
Moochad Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Tibarn said: People are underrating our current lot I think. Vijay/Kohli both average over 60 Dhawan/Rahul/Pujara all avg over 50 vs spin Only Rahane is looking bad here at 35.3 @Moochad Look at the stats for Rahane, Laxman and MSD. They all avg lower than players who come in at the top of the order. Of the players who average over 60, 3 are openers: Sehwag, Gambhir, and Vijay. This kind of supports what you were saying the other day. There is no way Laxman and MSD and could average so low vs spin if they were up the order, methinks It is surprising that VVS ends up averaging below 50 vs spin. He is as good a player of spin as I have seen before. Link to comment
Moochad Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I voted Older generation. Sehwag decides it for me. I wish he was batting today vs Moeen. Link to comment
diehardpacer Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) People keep forgetting that older gen players were losing a lot to SL & Pak. Batting collapse in Bangalore vs Pak,vs Eng in Mumbai under Dravid,Clarke taking 6 wickets,losing every tri series final to Pak or Sl while chasing in the Ganguly era,54 all out vs SL,losing wickets to Paul Harris show oldies had their issues with spinners.Heck they even lost 2-3 ODIs playing against spinners of Bangladesh like Rafique.In most matches in 2000s,till Sehwag was there,spinners will be subdued.After his departure,spinners will start dominating again.The major difference between oldies & newbies is they were playing lots of balls,hence lots of matches were drawn instead of losing.But the current issue is t20 & ODI players in test side showing their impatience & loose techniques against spinners like Moeen,Lyon.The old players were not good at sweeping spinners either. I see too much praise being showered to oldies which they don't deserve either. Edited September 3, 2018 by diehardpacer Link to comment
Vilander Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said: Moeen , in rhythm, is a very good spinner. It's time we accept that. he hit the rough today. and had 4 inning pressure, he was gifted wickets in first inning thats down to poor batting. GolGappe 1 Link to comment
anish2tweet Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 You know why coz sehwag never let spin dictate terms they were scared of him, sehwag would have smashed Ali to oblivion, the thing is none of our current bats barring Kohli and pujara have decisive footwork and look for strike rotation sums up the whole problem, sehwag was genius in this regard Rahane did well this test against spinners, playing with soft hands.Sent from my CPH1819 using Tapatalk Link to comment
rkt.india Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 People do over rate past a lot. we have seen our greats crumbling to average spinners in the past and despite making rank turners, we never had this good record at home. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Moochad said: It is surprising that VVS ends up averaging below 50 vs spin. He is as good a player of spin as I have seen before. it shows how perception works. Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 33 minutes ago, Vilander said: he hit the rough today. and had 4 inning pressure, he was gifted wickets in first inning thats down to poor batting. Perhaps but he has been a damn good spinner. His revs have been as high as 2400 rpm compared to ashwins peak of around 1600 rpm. That's a massive difference. That why he was getting so much bounce and turn on the odd delivery. Currently among offspinner s - Lyon and Ali give it the biggest rip consistently. Ashwin is no match for that. We need a spinner who can match that. Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, rkt.india said: People do over rate past a lot. we have seen our greats crumbling to average spinners in the past and despite making rank turners, we never had this good record at home. That's because other teams/batting line ups were much stronger back then. zen, Adi BB and Nikola 3 Link to comment
Adi BB Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, rkt.india said: People do over rate past a lot. we have seen our greats crumbling to average spinners in the past and despite making rank turners, we never had this good record at home. That's because most teams in the past were good especially in batting department and our bowling was never that good even at home. Our current bowling attack under kohli is ruthless at home hence we get good results . Our current batsmen are a step or 2 down against spin in spinning conditions except a couple of batsmen,if you can't see this simple thing then I can't help . The England series in India wlare the perfect type of pitches for India to win because our batsmen can play on those relatively easily and our bowlers are class enough to wither down the opposition batsmen. On rank turners it can be a gamble like against Aus in pune Link to comment
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