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Franco Vazquez

India decriminalizes Homosexuality

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50 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Talking about sexuality may be TMI for you, but it isnt for most adults.

yes, but why I as a straight person would want to talk about what a Gay does or did with a boy or a man?  For me, even thinking about it is disgusting and I am talking from my personal experience.

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7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, but why I as a straight person would want to talk about what a Gay does or did with a boy or a man?  For me, even thinking about it is disgusting and I am talking from my personal experience.

Not being interested in gay sex talk is a normal hetero behavior.

 

As things become more normal and acceptable , it will be more politically correct to tell people to shut up as you don't give a damn.

 

For now it is more socially acceptable to just tell them you are not interested in listening  unless it is involves  the opposite gender....just like we do about other things like other sports or politics.

Or just say....boys are boring, lets talk about girls .Disgust them like they disgust you.:p:

Edited by beetle

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A lot of nonsense being spread in this thread, by people ignorant of on genetics/biology. 

 

Hormones are not independent of genes. As much as genes give people their body parts, they also give hormone levels as well. The rest is politically motivated nonsense. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Moochad

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13 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, but why I as a straight person would want to talk about what a Gay does or did with a boy or a man?  For me, even thinking about it is disgusting and I am talking from my personal experience.

so you as a straight person does not even talk to straight women about what THEY want the man to do, not do, etc ? 


It is disgusting for you, is because you grew up under the assumption that it is disgusting. When in reality, it is simply not SEXUAL for a person to talk about sex in a way they do not enjoy it. It becomes nothing more than discussing a hanging chad around your nipple. Can be weird and TMI to strangers, but amongst friends, its not a taboo topic often. 

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10 minutes ago, beetle said:

Not being interested in gay sex talk is a normal hetero behavior.

 

As things become more normal and acceptable , it will be more politically correct to tell people to shut up as you don't give a damn.

 

For now it is more socially acceptable to just tell them you are not interested in listening  unless it is involves  the opposite gender....just like we do about other things like other sports or politics.

Or just say....boys are boring, lets talk about girls .Disgust them like they disgust you.:p:

The most funny thing is if you talk about girls with such guys, they will call you ladkibaaz.  Aage kuan, piche khaayi.

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10 minutes ago, Moochad said:

A lot of nonsense being spread in this thread, by people ignorant of on genetics/biology. 

 

Hormones are not independent of genes. As much as genes give people their body parts, they also give hormone levels as well. The rest is politically motivated nonsense. 

 

 

 

 

 

hormones are not directly controlled by genes only. No such study has ever proven what your hormonal levels will be based on genetic analysis. This is a complicated relationship, where genes set the ground for hormones, but are not decisively running hormone production levels either. 
We are not completely driven by our genetic template as far as behaviour goes, since there is a lot of nature, nurture, etc. components to behaviour.

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26 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

what propaganda are you talking of ? are you closet-gay then, if you think that talking about gay stuff would be too much for you to endure and you won't be able to resist being gay openly ?!? 

People talking about sexual orientation and teaching kids about sex and sexual orientation is good. Its sad that the land that invented the science and culture of sexual openness is now victim to the desert-cult mindset towards sex. 

Now this is what I was talking about.

 

I gave an opposing opinion without hating on homos, and you respond with this aggressive post. Propaganda where traditionalists are forced to compromise over their own rights.

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2 hours ago, Moochad said:

You can't expect much else from the SC, it is populated by colonial remnants.  They think the country is their personal fiefdom. 

You should see the past threads where these issues were being discussed by the poster @Green Monster , a US board certified psychiatrist. There was all kinds of alternative facts there where people were denying  medical science and misinterpreting science articles because it was not favoring their politics. 

 

You would have loved that thread :phehe:  Although I think Green Monster has been banned as I haven't seen him here recently.

 

Edit: What is the prognosis here you think? 

You mean where he claimed to be a board certified psychiatrist, then claimed something as a fact, which i devisively proved to be false by quoting exact opposite paper dissertation from University of Victoria Psychiatry department, after which he stopped 'psychiatry-ing' us ? 

Lage-raho.....

 

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3 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Now this is what I was talking about.

 

I gave an opposing opinion without hating on homos, and you respond with this aggressive post. Propaganda where traditionalists are forced to compromise over their own rights.

I am asking you a question- what propaganda ? propaganda by definition, is false information. So what false information is being spread here by simply talking about alternative sexual preferences ??



Traditions have no rights. Zero. People do. Your rights do not include shutting people up from saying or doing something in their own free time, either, amongst consenting adults. They are not campaigning to have sex on the sidewalk. If we can advertise about guns-devices to kill other beings- then we certainly can advertise about what consentual adult acts we enjoy.....


You are wanting censorship to keep your sensibilities alive. Two can play that game - we can start demanding censorship from your hocus pocus God celebrations too....this zero sum game benefits no one.


You are being forced to compromise on nothing - the right to not hear other people's sexual orientation or right to stop others from consentually ejoying their own bodies does not exit.

 

Edited by Muloghonto

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1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

hormones are not directly controlled by genes only. No such study has ever proven what your hormonal levels will be based on genetic analysis. This is a complicated relationship, where genes set the ground for hormones, but are not decisively running hormone production levels either. 
We are not completely driven by our genetic template as far as behaviour goes, since there is a lot of nature, nurture, etc. components to behaviour.

Please provide a study that backs up your claim.

 

Otherwise quit spreading ignorance of genetics to push your agenda. You have no background in the field as a self-identified engineer to pass off such blanket statements. Hormones are directly linked to genes.  

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3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

so you as a straight person does not even talk to straight women about what THEY want the man to do, not do, etc ? 


It is disgusting for you, is because you grew up under the assumption that it is disgusting. When in reality, it is simply not SEXUAL for a person to talk about sex in a way they do not enjoy it. It becomes nothing more than discussing a hanging chad around your nipple. Can be weird and TMI to strangers, but amongst friends, its not a taboo topic often. 

Why do you think I grew up thinking it is disgusting? I have no problem in what two gays are doing together because that is their orientation and I respect that, but i cant get involved in that thing because that is not my orientation and they should respect that too.  It is like someone is vegetarian and then suddenly he is asked to eat meat, what will be his reaction!  This is same.  

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2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am asking you a question- what propaganda ? propaganda by definition, is false information. So what false information is being spread here by simply talking about alternative sexual preferences ??



Traditions have no rights. Zero. People do. Your rights do not include shutting people up from saying or doing something in their own free time, either, amongst consenting adults. They are not campaigning to have sex on the sidewalk. If we can advertise about guns-devices to kill other beings- then we certainly can advertise about what consentual adult acts we enjoy.....


You are wanting censorship to keep your sensibilities alive. Two can play that game - we can start demanding censorship from your hocus pocus God celebrations too....this zero sum game benefits no one.


You are being forced to compromise on nothing - the right to not hear other people's sexual orientation or right to stop others from consentually ejoying their own bodies does not exit.

 

Anarchist.

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3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You mean where he claimed to be a board certified psychiatrist, then claimed something as a fact, which i devisively proved to be false by quoting exact opposite paper dissertation from University of Victoria Psychiatry department, after which he stopped 'psychiatry-ing' us ? 

Lage-raho.....

 

Yes, also the one where you disregarded the entire field of psychiatry by claiming Psychiatry is a basically a "social science" and your status as an engineer gives you locus standi to pass judgments on the World Health Organization. 

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2 hours ago, Moochad said:

You should see the past threads where these issues were being discussed by the poster @Green Monster , a US board certified psychiatrist. There was all kinds of alternative facts there where people were denying  medical science and misinterpreting science articles because it was not favoring their politics. 

 

You would have loved that thread :phehe:  Although I think Green Monster has been banned as I haven't seen him here recently.

 

 

I read that one before that Green Monster was banned during IPL season.

 

WHO guidelines take a backseat to politically correct BS :laugh: 

 

Quote

Edit: What is the prognosis here you think? 

Doubt it will last long honestly. There is little ground support for the issue among the major political parties national or regional. 

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2 minutes ago, Moochad said:

Please provide a study that backs up your claim.

I am not making a verifiable claim, i am dismissing yours as unverified. Your claim is genetics control hormones. I have seen no evidence of that. 

2 minutes ago, Moochad said:

 

Otherwise quit spreading ignorance of genetics to push your agenda. You have no background in the field as a self-identified engineer to pass off such blanket statements. Hormones are directly linked to genes.  

Please show us studies that show hormones are linked only to genes and by using genetic analysis we can predict future hormonal behaviours. 

I never claimed to be an expert on this field. I am simply saying what you've claimed has never crossed before my eyes amongst piles and piles of science paper readings. Feel free to prove me wrong and i will happily eat crow.

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Just now, Muloghonto said:

anarchism is irrelevant to traditionalism. Otherwise communism - which is FUNDAMENTALLY against traditionalism to a large degree, would be anarchism. Get your accusations right.

 

Traditions are simple ideas- those have no rights.

So now you are communist as well. Please tell me what are your thoughts on the Cheka force of your hero and possibly god Lenin? And thousands of murders by Stalin?

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4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Why do you think I grew up thinking it is disgusting? I have no problem in what two gays are doing together because that is their orientation and I respect that, but i cant get involved in that thing because that is not my orientation and they should respect that too.  It is like someone is vegetarian and then suddenly he is asked to eat meat, what will be his reaction!  This is same.  

Again, you are imposing your own personal views on the situation. So you mean, anything you don't like, is automatically disgusting to you/hated by you, etc ? No middle ground ?

Like i dont like doritos. I dont hate them either. To most adults who have had talks about sex and sexuality with friends and family, sex that they dont like is kind of like talking about your toe-nails. A bit boring maybe. but thats it. 


Just because its not your orientation, doesn't mean people should shut up about it. Its YOUR orienttion. Its YOUR job to politely tell people you are not comfortable with a said topic and re-direct conversation.we encounter plenty of topics we dont want to talk about - this is no different, so don't treat it any different. 

And if you are the type who goes ape$hit on people for talking about stuff YOU don't like, its called being an a-hole in general more than the topics being discussed.

 

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3 minutes ago, Franco Vazquez said:

Muloghonto or Mulogotar reminds me of Arnab Goswami. They both run their mouth about something they have no idea of. His only expertise on this regard is that he worked with gays which I highly doubt he did because its the same story I have heard from different ultra-leftists. 

I have lived longer than you've been around, in San Fransisco, Seattle and Vancouver. Where gay people are very visible and dont let bigots like you shut them up. 

This is why you don't respond to a post directly, because you have no knowledge and are nothing more than another opinionated punk kid who's high on opinion and low on knowledge, forming opinions on things living in a part of the world where its impossible to form an informed opinion on said topic. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Franco Vazquez said:

So now you are communist as well. Please tell me what are your thoughts on the Cheka force of your hero and possibly god Lenin? And thousands of murders by Stalin?

idiot, i am not a communist. i am simply pointing out that Marxists have a long history of destroying tradition in every country they've taken root in and by that definition, communism would be anarchism, because they are anti tradition. Yet communism is much more about ORDER than capitalism, where anarchism is LACK OF CENTRAL ORDER.  You yet again, get into topics you have 0% knowledge on. 
Kindly google definitions of words before you seek to engage in them.

 

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10 minutes ago, Moochad said:

Yes, also the one where you disregarded the entire field of psychiatry by claiming Psychiatry is a basically a "social science" and your status as an engineer gives you locus standi to pass judgments on the World Health Organization. 

I pointed out that WHO is a political body making political decisions. They are not a medical body run strictly by physicians. WHO is not Health Canada. .

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I have visited all those places and also in the UK where the media will make you believe that there are a lot of gays but in reality, I won't say that they are even 5% of the population but since Muloghonto lives in his own little bubble, Its a waste of time posting on this thread.

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2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

idiot, i am not a communist. i am simply pointing out that Marxists have a long history of destroying tradition in every country they've taken root in and by that definition, communism would be anarchism, because they are anti tradition. Yet communism is much more about ORDER than capitalism, where anarchism is LACK OF CENTRAL ORDER.  You yet again, get into topics you have 0% knowledge on. 
Kindly google definitions of words before you seek to engage in them.

 

I have read and learned more about Communism than you have in your whole life and I guess you are over 40 and if you are actually 40+ you need to get a life really rather than posting on a forum and defend a mentally sick community.

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Just now, Franco Vazquez said:

I have visited all those places and also in the UK where the media will make you believe that there are a lot of gays but in reality, I won't say that they are even 5% of the population but since Muloghonto lives in his own little bubble, Its a waste of time posting on this thread.

Visiting as a kid means nothing, kid. Grow up before you form opinions on adult things, about things you do not have direct exposure to. 

There may be less than 5% strict gays in the world but there are a lot more bisexuals in the world than strict gays - especially amongst females. That much, is a fact. Ofcourse, you would not know this, living in the no-fun jaahil middle east where sex is a taboo topic.

 

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Just now, Franco Vazquez said:

I have read and learned more about Communism than you have in your whole life and I guess you are over 40 and if you are actually 40+ you need to get a life really rather than posting on a forum and defend a mentally sick community.

I am defending them, is because the they are not mentally sick. The mentally sick ones are the likes of you, who as barely out of their teens and living in closeted middle east, forms strong opinions on subjects with zero personal experience or education in. Its far easier to prove YOU are mentally sick than the ones you are calling because your behaviour is far easier to prove as irrational than theirs. 

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5 minutes ago, beetle said:

Lifestyle and  general health can also effect hormone.

 

Pcos in women causes hormonal imbalance.

 

Reducing weight helps in reducing pcos .

So it is not all genetics.

women are almost always bisexual.

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5 minutes ago, beetle said:

Lifestyle and  general health can also effect hormone.

 

Pcos in women causes hormonal imbalance.

 

Reducing weight helps in reducing pcos .

So it is not all genetics.

food also plays a part. If you consume a lot of soy milk daily, you will get a lot of plant based estrogen. So much for 'genetics being the only driver for hormones' argument. Genetics form the blueprint for hormones. Lifestyle makes up for the rest.

 

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1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Visiting as a kid means nothing, kid. Grow up before you form opinions on adult things, about things you do not have direct exposure to. 

There may be less than 5% strict gays in the world but there are a lot more bisexuals in the world than strict gays - especially amongst females. That much, is a fact. Ofcourse, you would not know this, living in the no-fun jaahil middle east where sex is a taboo topic.

 

Yeah it seems like you have visited a lot thats why you are still terming middle east as a jahil country whereas UAE is one of the most progressive countries in the world in every aspect. Its safe, people have rights and now please don't bring labor in this because labor is a community which is oppressed everywhere even if you go to the UK, Canada, US etc and the thing that you believe that women are oppressed here is another western propaganda just like your this whole LGBT BS. 

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5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am not making a verifiable claim, i am dismissing yours as unverified. Your claim is genetics control hormones. I have seen no evidence of that. 

 

No, your claim is:

Quote

hormones are not directly controlled by genes only. No such study has ever proven what your hormonal levels will be based on genetic analysis. This is a complicated relationship, where genes set the ground for hormones, but are not decisively running hormone production levels either. 
We are not completely driven by our genetic template as far as behaviour goes, since there is a lot of nature, nurture, etc. components to behaviour.

That is a verifiable claim and a dishonest statement that displays ignorance of the field. 

 

There is little, if anything, that can be shown to be 100% down to genetics in humans currently. We in the medical field as well as geneticists lack the tools to sufficiently experiment on humans, and even if we had the tools, it would be unethical.  

 

Just because an experiment is currently impossible and unethical doesn't justify making  baseless blanket statements. It is within the realm of possibility that only genes affect hormones. It is also possible that it is not solely genes. The statement "hormones are not directly controlled by genes only" is unproven. 

 

My statement was 

Quote

Hormones are not independent of genes. As much as genes give people their body parts, they also give hormone levels as well. The rest is politically motivated nonsense. 

 

Which anyone with training in genetics would know.

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3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am defending them, is because the they are not mentally sick. The mentally sick ones are the likes of you, who as barely out of their teens and living in closeted middle east, forms strong opinions on subjects with zero personal experience or education in. Its far easier to prove YOU are mentally sick than the ones you are calling because your behaviour is far easier to prove as irrational than theirs. 

Believe it or not, Homosexuality is a mental illness and being mentally ill doesn't mean you harm the society. A lot of mental illnesses like Depression are a personal thing and there's another thing which is swept under the carpet in the West that there are a lot of concentration camps where parents send their children who are acting like gays to convert them to heterosexual. It might be a bitter pill to swallow for you but its the truth because I have heard people going there.

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1 minute ago, Franco Vazquez said:

Yeah it seems like you have visited a lot thats why you are still terming middle east as a jahil country whereas UAE is one of the most progressive countries in the world in every aspect.

UAE is less free than India. I lived in the gulf for 5 years, i have family who lives in UAE...not a whole lot has changed. A country where couples cant even hold hands in public without it being a crime, is laughable as 'progressive'. 

1 minute ago, Franco Vazquez said:

Its safe, people have rights and now please don't bring labor in this because labor is a community which is oppressed everywhere even if you go to the UK, Canada, US etc and the thing that you believe that women are oppressed here is another western propaganda just like your this whole LGBT BS. 

People have rights in UAE ? you have no freedom of speech. I can yell 'islam is evil' anywhere in the western world. They will term me an extremist maybe, people will boo me, but nobody is going to arrest me for saying islam is evil. Now do that in UAE...

freedom my a$$....

 

you remind me of an Iranian proverb - birds who are born in a cage, think flying is an illness.

 

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Just now, MechEng said:

@Muloghonto you get worked up too easily in online discussions, chill. You will inevitably meet people with different opinions in internet.

Agree.

@Muloghonto...discuss politely. You will get across to more people ....than getting them cross .:roti:

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2 minutes ago, Moochad said:

 

No, your claim is:

That is a verifiable claim and a dishonest statement that displays ignorance of the field. 

Its not. its a negative claim - as in, i have seen no evidence that says hormones are directly controlled ONLY by genes. you are getting caught up in words, where it should be clear from a scientific POV what is and what is not a positive claim. 

2 minutes ago, Moochad said:

There is little, if anything, that can be shown to be 100% down to genetics in humans currently. We in the medical field as well as geneticists lack the tools to sufficiently experiment on humans, and even if we had the tools, it would be unethical.  

 

That does not mean we run with the assumption that every thought in your mind, every urge, is genetically based, either. we certainly have evidence of altering hormonal levels by non-genetic means, which means it CANNOT BE sole purview of genetics. 

 

2 minutes ago, Moochad said:

Just because an experiment is currently impossible and unethical doesn't justify making  baseless blanket statements. It is within the realm of possibility that only genes affect hormones. It is also possible that it is not solely genes. The statement "hormones are not directly controlled by genes only" is unproven. 

no it is not, since consumption of plant hormones can directly affect individual's hormone levels, ergo hormones are not directly controlled by genes either. 

2 minutes ago, Moochad said:

My statement was 

 

Which anyone with training in genetics would know.

i did not dispute your statment, which is why i said genetics provides the template for hormones.

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2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

UAE is less free than India. I lived in the gulf for 5 years, i have family who lives in UAE...not a whole lot has changed. A country where couples cant even hold hands in public without it being a crime, is laughable as 'progressive'. 

People have rights in UAE ? you have no freedom of speech. I can yell 'islam is evil' anywhere in the western world. They will term me an extremist maybe, people will boo me, but nobody is going to arrest me for saying islam is evil. Now do that in UAE...

freedom my a$$....

 

you remind me of an Iranian proverb - birds who are born in a cage, think flying is an illness.

 

So you think calling Islam evil is freedom of speech but if you say something about gays it automatically turns into hate speech. The example which you gave is of hate speech and not freedom of speech and that couple thing is BS because if it was true then why the hell a lot of white people live here.

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4 minutes ago, Franco Vazquez said:

Believe it or not, Homosexuality is a mental illness and being mentally ill doesn't mean you harm the society.

you keep making statements without any support to them. ok. in that case, islam is a mental illness...coz i said so. just like how you said so for homosexuality. so if you can accept my POV that islam is a mental illness, i can accept yours - cool ? or maybe i will say being of pakistani origin is a disease....anyone can make any random statement...

 

you have failed to provide a single medical evidence of homosexuality being a disease.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Franco Vazquez said:

So you think calling Islam evil is freedom of speech but if you say something about gays it automatically turns into hate speech.

yep. islam is a concept. it has no rights. people have rights. if i were to diss muslims, then that would be the equivalent to dissing gays. but islam ? its a bunch of words. nothing more. no rights for a bunch of words - sorry. 

1 minute ago, Franco Vazquez said:

The example which you gave is of hate speech and not freedom of speech and that couple thing is BS because if it was true then why the hell a lot of white people live here.

false. saying XYZ is evil is not hate speech. again, get a better education.hate speech, by definition has to be targetted towards a being or a bunch of people. saying muslims are evil, is hate speech. 

If i walked around here with 'muslims are evil' poster, yes cops will get involved. But if i walked around with 'islam is evil', no cop will harass me. you clearly have no ideas on rights, which is not surprising since you live in a kingdom where a Sheikh 'deciedes' what rights to give or not give. 

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2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

you keep making statements without any support to them. ok. in that case, islam is a mental illness...coz i said so. just like how you said so for homosexuality. so if you can accept my POV that islam is a mental illness, i can accept yours - cool ? or maybe i will say being of pakistani origin is a disease....anyone can make any random statement...

 

you have failed to provide a single medical evidence of homosexuality being a disease.

 

 

Ok I accept that Muslims are mentally ill and Pakistani are mentally ill if that helps you sleep at night

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Just now, Franco Vazquez said:

It didn't even take 5 minutes for me to destroy Muloghonto. Its not even the first time I have done it. Muloghonto you should argue with someone who's on your level and your level Gotar.

Says the kid who cannot provide a straight answer a single time - i asked you many times -produce a medical paper that shows homosexuality is a disease, that is from the last 20 years. Until you do, your opinion is unsupported nonsense, based on islamic views on the topic. 

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1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Says the kid who cannot provide a straight answer a single time - i asked you many times -produce a medical paper that shows homosexuality is a disease, that is from the last 20 years. Until you do, your opinion is unsupported nonsense, based on islamic views on the topic. 

The opposite of normal is abnormal and now please don't say that homosexuality in men is normal because its not. Ask any male in your Canada and US to have sex with you and they will straight on punch you on the face and during the treatment please also get your head checked. Any type of behaviour which is genetically abnormal becomes illness just like people with Down Syndrome or Autism. You won't call autism normal right?

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