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wanted_desi

Its just Painful to see this team not winning series in England

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It's fine. Losing 5 tosses. Poor selection. No preparation. Poor management of unfit players. Poor strategizing/captaincy.  Horrible scheduling . I'll take it if we can win this match. Winning 3 test matches in sena is ok compared to what we got in the 2011-17 period. 1 win in 21 matches. 

 

Also I think we were too complacent with Kohli/shastri not giving enough respect to conditions/opposition . SA surprised us with a returning AB/Steyn in the 1st test and England's all-rounders including that lad Curran were a surprise as well. 

 

I think 3-2 England would be a fair result all things considered. We didn't deserve to win . Had we won , it would have resulted in Kohli and shastri and everyone else gloating about the process, fearless cricket yada yada yada and we would have stagnated further. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

did u see the ashes ,eng could have won the 1st 2 tests ,ended up losing 4-0

the point is that fans assume that if things went perfectly for their team, they would have won. But then the other team can assume those things too :winky:

 

How many times have we heard such crap:

  • If Misbah had not played that shot in 2007 T20 WC
  • If the team did not fix 
  • If Viv Richards had not played that shot in 83 final
  • If Kapil had not made 175* 
  • If Gambhir had got out in 2011 WC
  • If BD had batted sensibly in Pandya's over in that T20
  • If Kohli had got a duck vs Aus in that T20 game 
  • If Ishant had not picked up that wkt in CT final vs Eng
  • If Yuv and Kaif had got out in Natwest final
  • If Ind did not prepare rank turners at home 
  • If both Warne and McGrath had played in the 2003/4 Test series in Aus
  • If Lax had not played that inning at Kol 
  • If Pandya had not picked up 5 quick wkts 

 

If fans do this, every team would have won everything. We want to accept other teams mistakes and discount ours when judging things 

Edited by zen

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9 minutes ago, zen said:

the point is that fans assume that if things went perfectly for their team, they would have won. But then the other team can assume those things too :winky:

 

How many times have we heard such crap:

  • If Misbah had not played that shot in 2007 T20 WC
  • If the team did not fix 
  • If Viv Richards had not played that shot in 83 final
  • If Kapil had not made 175* 
  • If Gambhir had got out in 2011 WC
  • If BD had batted sensibly in Pandya's over in that T20
  • If Kohli had got a duck vs Aus in that T20 game 
  • If Ishant had not picked up that wkt in CT final vs Eng
  • If Yuv and Kaif had got out in Natwest final
  • If Ind did not prepare rank turners at home 

 

If fans do this, every team would have won everything. We want to accept other teams mistakes and discount ours when judging things 

A close series will evoke such reactions and if you are on tour it implies that you have played well ,in home conditions there are no excuses for losing .

 

It depends how consistent and persistent you are ,aus came to ind in 2001 and lost the last 2 matches narrowly but next time round in 2004 they won the series.

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5 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

A close series will evoke such reactions and if you are on tour it implies that you have played well ,in home conditions there are no excuses for losing .

 

It depends how consistent and persistent you are ,aus came to ind in 2001 and lost the last 2 matches narrowly but next time round in 2004 they won the series.

This does not answer the question that if other team or Ind visualized a perfect situation for it while discounting the same for the other team, the result would have been different 

 

For e.g. if Ind had not left grass on the pitch at Nagpur, etc. .... In that case, we can visualize a different result 

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34 minutes ago, Lannister said:

3-2 is fine if we win this one. But the team management has to go. Get some quality staff who atleast knows what they are doing. 

3-2 would be good in fact first test match was ours to win but we lost only fear with 3-2 is the delusional and ignorant coaching staff will become more arrogant and coach will come out and run his mouth.

We had our moments in this series first test then last match from 86-6 to 246 was disappointing.

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

This does not answer the question that if other team or Ind visualized a perfect situation for it while discounting the same for the other team, the result would have been different 

 

For e.g. if Ind had not left grass on the pitch at Nagpur, etc. .... In that case, we can visualize a different result 

the difference was around 50 odd runs ,you dont need a perfect scenario for such narrow margins  .ofc at the end of the day a miss is as good as a mile.

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4 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

the difference was around 50 odd runs ,you dont need a perfect scenario for such narrow margins  .ofc at the end of the day a miss is as good as a mile.

why is why I like to move on .... most of the time, every game would have those moments 

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4 minutes ago, Switchblade said:

3-2 would be good in fact first test match was ours to win but we lost only fear with 3-2 is the delusional and ignorant coaching staff will become more arrogant and coach will come out and run his mouth.

We had our moments in this series first test then last match from 86-6 to 246 was disappointing.

I don't think we should have won the first test. Kohli was dropped couple of times and we would've bowled out for below 100 in the first innings, if not for his freak innings. 

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3 minutes ago, Lannister said:

I don't think we should have won the first test. Kohli was dropped couple of times and we would've bowled out for below 100 in the first innings, if not for his freak innings. 

They were 86-7 and then Curran was dropped would have been chasing 130-140.The cheerleader coach has to go though sick of him and his stupid statements.

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Pak drew a series here, WI won a test chasing 324, SL won a series in 2015, hence the comparison. The others were not 5 test series and hence it happened. But, rueing over not able to chase <250 runs is a mental problem (FOrget Lords, it was a toss/weather gods defeated us), but we could have won 2 tests which we lost in 40 and 60 runs! Gutless batting except Kohli.

 

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Math equation of fans: 

 

  • India's performance - Opponent's Selected Performance  (they don't benefit from any positive perceived corrections) +/- Perceived Corrections = Ind win 

 

So if Ind loses by 29 runs where X scored a 100 and Y a 0. Replacing Y with Z who fans would assume would have scored 30 would translate in to 130. Opponent's performance would remain constant. So if A scored from the other team scored 0, he would score a 0 in the new formula as well .... In real world, if Z were playing, who knows, he would have run X out for 0 and got out the next ball .... and who knows if Z drops 2 important catches, A would have scored a 100 .... but we are not supposed to consider those negative scenarios :lol: 

 

If one factor changes, it could influence a variety of factors. If a team loses by 10 runs, those 10 runs reflect all the plays made in the game. Mathematically, removing a play and adding a more favorable one may not necessarily change the end result in the real world. As the change could drive other changes as well .... Mathematically, the opponent, or any team, can create favorable equations as well 

Edited by zen

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6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Dreaded name Curan ruined the party. If only curan had got his duck in the last match lol

What if Kohli and Pujara had got ducks too? :hmmmm:

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1 minute ago, zen said:

What if Kohli and Pujara had got ducks too? :hmmmm:

That is not what i meant. I mean he was the sole difference in the series. We were basically his wicket away from winning 2 tests. Being a lower order bat, him batting with another lower order bat mostly it was tactical failure on our part besides toss losses.

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3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is not what i meant. I mean he was the sole difference in the series. We were basically his wicket away from winning 2 tests. Being a lower order bat, him batting with another lower order bat mostly it was tactical failure on our part besides toss losses.

But then Eng can argue too that if only it got Kohli out early or neutralized bowler X, it could have whitewashed Ind :dontknow:

Edited by zen

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1 minute ago, zen said:

But than Eng can argue too that if only it got Kohli out early or neutralized bowler X, it could have whitewashed Ind :dontknow:

I am not saying getting Root wicket or any other top order. A 20 year late order noob killed us not once not twice but thrice. Kohli scoring runs is not a miracle

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4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I am not saying getting Root wicket or any other top order. A 20 year late order noob killed us not once not twice but thrice. Kohli scoring runs is not a miracle

So many players have done well in their debut series. Azhar scored 3 100s in 3 tests. Sachin helped Ind to draw the series. Kambli hit 200s .... and so on 

 

we cannot cherry pick scenarios to create a rosy picture 

Edited by zen

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47 minutes ago, zen said:

So many players have done well in their debut series. Azhar scored 3 100s in 3 tests. Sachin helped Ind to draw the series. Kambli hit 200s .... and so on 

 

we cannot cherry pick scenarios to create a rosy picture 

You can rank them. You can pretty much ask any experts. Curan's contribution was  the biggest influence in the result of the series. 

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28 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

You can rank them. You can pretty much ask any experts. Curan's contribution was  the biggest influence in the result of the series. 

It was but if we say that if he had scored zero, Eng can argue too that if Kohli or whoever had done badly .... Take Kohli’s 600 runs out :dontknow:

 

which is is why I think of all these as gully cricket talk - a) if I had not got runout, I would have smashed them (could hv got out the next ball), b) if my arm was not injured, I would have bowled faster and got x wkts 

 

Would we accept the argument that if Wasim had played the 1996 QF, Pak would have won (Jadeja would hv smashed Wasim too). If Razzaq had moved quickly to take Sachin’s catch in 2003 game, Pak would hv won (Sehwag could have scored a 100). If Misbah had attacked earlier in 2011 WC, Pak would have won (he could have been out early)

 

Anyways, whatever we find solace in 

Edited by zen

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It will be pathetic to blame one thing or one person for the loss. Our batting was just not good enough on regular basis whether you say your favorite wasn’t picked in the line up or not. These guys were expected to perform better than they did. Batting under performed and now deserves to be called overrated line up by anyone until they do well overseas. I still have confidence in Rahane and Pujara down the line but for now, all of them including our pathetic opening stand this series will be considered overrated. Our line up needs to come back up with a strong performance Down Under with a different openinng pair as this one clearly isn’t working. 

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3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Pak drew a series here, WI won a test chasing 324, SL won a series in 2015, hence the comparison. The others were not 5 test series and hence it happened. But, rueing over not able to chase <250 runs is a mental problem (FOrget Lords, it was a toss/weather gods defeated us), but we could have won 2 tests which we lost in 40 and 60 runs! Gutless batting except Kohli.

 

SL drew a two test series, not won.

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2 hours ago, zen said:

It was but if we say that if he had scored zero, Eng can argue too that if Kohli or whoever had done badly .... Take Kohli’s 600 runs out :dontknow:

 

which is is why I think of all these as gully cricket talk - a) if I had not got runout, I would have smashed them (could hv got out the next ball), b) if my arm was not injured, I would have bowled faster and got x wkts 

 

Would we accept the argument that if Wasim had played the 1996 QF, Pak would have won (Jadeja would hv smashed Wasim too). If Razzaq had moved quickly to take Sachin’s catch in 2003 game, Pak would hv won (Sehwag could have scored a 100). If Misbah had attacked earlier in 2011 WC, Pak would have won (he could have been out early)

 

Anyways, whatever we find solace in 

Sorry you are not understanding my point. You are losing the context and applying it literally. In all the matches when Curan walked out India was in absolute dominant position almost going for the kill. 3 times. That is why he was the game breaker of the series more than anyone else. 

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1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

So, it became a clash of two bowling attacks and England just edged ours because our bowlers let England lower order flourish at the crucial moments.

Agree but we were missing bhuvi who could have became our Curran. This series has been decided by 2 close test matches which we lost and the difference was Curran. If we had bhuvi in place of shami this would have been 2-2 atm. 

Also we missed bumrah in the first 2 test ,bumrah playing in the first test and the story might have been different 

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I see things differently. Despite all its flaws, the fact that this team managed to stay in the game and make it somewhat close in the first test and the fourth is itself an achievement. What if Kohli had his catch taken in the first match? What if he had a poor run like in 2014? And despite his good form, the series at one point threatened to become a one sided farce. Though it hurts a lot as fans to see years of built up overseas win hopes cruelly dashed yet again, it could have been much worse with a 2011 like flop show.

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not that painful because of 2 elements .One, luck with the toss. How can you win if you are such unlucky with the toss??? Winning toss

can influence a lot in cricket. But even with law of averages, you need to win 2 out of 5 tosses at least . When all tosses are lost, nothing can be done.

 

Secondly even if tosses were lost, there were still great chances of winning the series if the 2 opening spots  were occupied with at least good players. Unfortunately the experienced Vijay   who  was at the most a  mere 'good' player went terribly out of form .To compensate for that we needed  a great opener at the other side.Instead what we got was a complete hack in Dhawan.Thus paid the price of not at all  finding out an already established great  opener for such an important away series. Any unluckly the instant replacement for Vijay too proved to be utter failure, that is Rahul.

 

 

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