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prasen82

How do we select Test players going forward

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Considering that this series is done and dusted (barring a miracle we should mostly lose this test by 4th day lunch or before tea ) what should be our approach for selecting test players for future tours. The nepotism /favoritism towards existing players should stop.

 

 

We keep going back to TTF without giving the equal rope to players who have been successful in ranji.

 

IPL performances matter more than ranji and that is reflected in our selections. This would pose a long term problem wherein folks start to aim only for IPL as all others will be secondary and this will start the death knell for cricket in india.

 

I feel in the name of talent we tend to give a very long rope to existing players compared to newbies. Similarly we judge performances by stats rather than situations. As fans we are also guilty of this.

 

I feel Ranji and A series tours should  be the way forward for players. Every player should get at least 4 away tests and 3 home tests before they get discarded.  There will be exception only if the players appear woefully out of depth.

 

RANJI -A tour - senior team should be the mode of entrywl. People discarded from senior team will need to again perform in ranji and a tours well  to be selected again. 

 

And players should be identified as specialists based on type of pitch and opposition mix. Not everyone can be a kohli. Horses for courses strategy needs to be there. Again if wishes were horses.

 

 

Edited by prasen82

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I am not a big fan of processes and rules esp. in sports. But there needs to be some guidelines for tests:

 

  • Pick batsmen based on class. Bowlers based on current form. Remember that SR is for bowlers in tests  
  • WK is a specialist position. Once Wkt-Keeping skills are deemed to be adequate for tests, batting should be considered 
  • New players being introduced should ideally come in based on Ranji and Ind A performances 
  • If a player is fast tracked based on potential. Give him 3-4 series to adjust to the learning curve 
  • Injured players should automatically sit out of the next test unless they confidently pass the fitness test. Concepts such as this 80% fit player is still better than the 100% fit guy on the bench should not be applied 
  • Unless necessary, in a long series, rotate the fast bowlers. Don't give them too many continuous tests 
  • Don't tamper with the balance of the 11 to provide cushion (or cover for struggling players) to batting or bowling. First step is to optimize the slots by picking the 5 best inform batsmen for the conditions, the 4 bowlers, and the WK position. Once the best (non struggling) players are identified, adjust the remaining slot, which, ideally, should go to an all-rounder
  • Apart from the 16 member squad, a list of reserves should be available with packing order for the next 2-3 series. Once the selectors meet we should know who would be playing the WI and Aus test series, along with who their replacements would be if the players don't make it for whatever reason (lack of performance, fitness issues, injury, playing conditions, etc.). This also helps the players, both in the squad and in reserve, to prepare accordingly 
  • Hire a data analyst to gather relevant information on players (esp. what would make them successful in the upcoming series), opposition (strengths and weaknesses of players) and conditions. The dossier should be handed out to everyone so that they can prepare accordingly. Once the series is over, the analyst and team management should sit together to make the updates 
  • Wherever possible, reserve a couple of slots in the squad for youngsters so that they can learn 

 

That's what I can think of now :p:

 

 

Edited by zen

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identify a talent n back him n backing doesnt mean 2-3 games, it cud even mean 10-15 games

Filter the crap like dhawan n rohit, dnt get delusions on basis of Lanka bashing 

 

Select a player at right time

Mayank shud have been tested by now hadnt we wasted time on Dhawan

Nair also if not for rohit . 

Till now we wud have knwn if to persist with them or move ahead. Now shaw n vihari have gone ahead

 

 

Siraj shud have been in england, what an ideal place for a fast bowler to debut


 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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It's about selecting and giving enough chances in appropriate conditions for the selected youngsters. 

 

And rotation is a must. Dont play the same set of  players for every series . Define workload limits. 

 

For the reserves they should also tour during every away series and play parallel test series with the respective a side ke county sides.  I see that happening now and should continue. 

 

 

Edited by prasen82

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 i think we need to keep on with trail and error methods  until we get quality all round batsmen(a top 6 with variety for all formats and all conditions as  possible as it can get).Never get satisfied  with  one dimensional players like Vijay(test only player with limited talent),Dhawan(one day player &  proving as  utter failure in 3 of SENA in tests),Pujara(test player only with not a good record in any 1 of SENA yet),Rahane(test player only  with brilliant record in 3 of SENA), Rahul(not good in any format and any condition as of now).

Means Kohli alone is the 1 deserving element in this top 6. Then Rahane & Pujara... both needs to be sustained with until adequate replacements are found out.Others need to be permanently  dropped from at least tests for  ever.

Compare this to Sachin,Ganguly,Dravid,Laxman,Sehwag,Gambhir & Yuvraj. What a core group that was!!!!. Laxman was test specialist, Yuvraj was one day specialist , all the others 'brilliant to atleast'  good in both. That is what makes a good team. Even the least 'all format player' in that group Gambhir was far better than  any one from this group except Kohli.

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Batsmen --

 

1. Good off-stump game and play the ball under their eyes.  

2.  Decent against short balls.

3. Performer in FC and Unofficial tests for India-A.

4.  Have the grit to hang on in touch situations.

 

Pacers --

 

1.  Have pace and bounce.

2. Can put a high percentage of deliveries in the right areas.

3.  Wicket taker in FC and in Unofficial tests for India-A.

 

 

Spinners --

 

1.  Gives the ball lots of revs and can turn the ball on most surfaces.

2.  Has a good flipper / arm ball  and  googly / carrom ball if possible.

3.  Wicket taker in FC and in Unofficial tests for India-A.

 

 

General --

 

Has genuine will to play and excel in test cricket.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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1 hour ago, NareshK said:

Hopefully more specialists who only play one format but for strange reasons, this never happens in Indian cricket.

I think this is crucial.  IPL and tests dont go hand in hand unless you are a kohli. Sooner bcci realizes this the better it is.

 

The fundamentals of our batsmen seem so bad.

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2 hours ago, NareshK said:

Hopefully more specialists who only play one format but for strange reasons, this never happens in Indian cricket.

 

Vijay, Pujara, Ashwin, Shami ... even Rahane nowadays.  All are test specialists now.

 

None have done well this year in tests.

 

The multi format players ... Kohli, Bumrah, Bhuvi have been really good.

 

Thing is ...  any cricketer who gets left out from the LOI squads and does not get a fat IPL contract feels left out and demotivated.  That is where the main interest lies these days.

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Main thing is ... don't play TTFs and HTBs in home test series.  (  Like Dhawan, Rohit, Karthick )

 

Utilize this opportunity to develop all condition test cricketers.

 

We missed this chance on the 2016 and 2017 test series and the 2018 test vs Afghanistan.

 

Must do it in test series vs WI.  Must play Shaw, Vihari, Nair, Pant, Siraj, Saini.

Edited by express bowling

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Do not go for style both on field and off field (Tattoos and other) BS ..Sometimes players may play ugly but does not matter as long as they get runs. Look for players like Badrinath, Mithun Manhas and other workhorses in FC and reward them.

DO NOT USE IPL and T20 as selection criteria. Use FC records. Hardik pandya. Averages 27 in FC. Kuldeep and Pant needs more FC matches.
Vijay Shankar is averaging 47 in FC but ppl in ICF are saying he is not fit for test team because he failed in T20.

No 6 should be a batsman. Our top order is weak. Stop experimenting with fast bowling allrounders. Maybe in subcontinent we can play Ashwin as the allrounder.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

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Team selection was not a problem. Problem was rotation/benching. Ashwin should have been benched, Vijay played on his past reputation. rahane should have been benched along with Dhawan. Pant should have been benched in this test. The problem is there are no repercussion for non performance. Look at Vihari today how well he played. Other guys played as if it was a Govt. job.

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1 hour ago, prasen82 said:

Pujara did well

Shami martial problems

Ashwin injury and weight problems

Rahane is the only one and he has been underperforming for 2 years.

This year ...

 

Pujara averages 31 from 7 away tests this year.  

 

Vijay total failure.

 

Shami affected by marital problems in SA.  Not in England.

 

Ashwin was having issues with injury only in the 4th test and maybe the end stages of the 3rd test.  Weight problem is lack of motivation on his part.

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People go through rare patches. Pujara is too. But he did come back well. He showed the intent to play country and slug it out.

 

Pant rahul pandya the new gen IPL superstars seem to lack it. Easy money , instant fame seems to have affected them.

 

Test cricket requires grit and determination which sadly lot lack. 

 

Rahane is probably the odd man out as I just think he has lost his mojo completely. 

 

Ashwin should be told that he will not be selected for odis. This way at least he can work on cementing his legacy as a test atg.

 

Jadeja has come back pretty strongly after the benching. So for experienced players benching should be much more to drive their hunger.

 

And let's not create more amol mazumdars and badrinaths. We need these players in tests. 

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27 minutes ago, prasen82 said:

People go through rare patches. Pujara is too. But he did come back well. He showed the intent to play country and slug it out.

Good to see hardwork being rewarded and Pujara turn it around in this series .... Pujara  :cheer5:

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Go slot by Slot

 

Openers

Shaw, Rahul , Mayank, Vijay 

 

  • Shaw n Rahul shud open In WI, If rahul get runs in 1st game ...give mayank the 2nd game. Play shaw in both game 
  • Take shaw n Mayank to Nz-A tour afterwards 
  • Tell murali vijay if he piles on runs in county n then in domestic he has a chance but he has to work really hard 

No.3 

Pujara, Vihari, dhruv Shorey, Rahane

 

  • Pujara Has done enough to safe his place but still is a long way before he can be relied on in overseas . Play him in WI test and if possible he also can be send to NZ-A ( again i dnt knw the timelines)
  • If pujara fails in Aus Lets look at next options - Rahane ( if in form), Vihari if he passes test till then , Shorey another one

No.4

Not to be touched

 

No. 5

Rahane, Nair, Vihari 

  • Hopefully Rahane finds some form, Take him atleast to A tour of NZ , if not pujara . Drop him from WI Series or make him bat up if u wanna persist . 
  • Make sure we give both Vihari n Nair WI series both games and then NZ-A tour to 

No.6 

Pandya or Shankar

  • Let pandya play WI series and get some runs under his belt . Drop him from ODi....and ask him to work on playing with soft hands or else he ll be in trouble in australia to
  • Take Shankar on A-tour to NZ and see if his bowling is good enough to contain, my fear is he can be carted in Aus. 

No. 7 

Pant

  • Persist with him. If u want him dropped....i have news for u that u have no patience so never suggest a youngsters name. Play him In WI series and do not go back to DK or Pappu 
  • Anyways if he keeps failing. Start looking at samson n telll him to work on his batting n keeping as he is being looked as test prospect

 

Having said that their is something that we need to understand

When u get many youngsters in a squad their is higher chance of failing in away condition but in that case have patience coz they are in process of learning. Winning in Away conditions is hard. Give these young players a breathing space or else dnt suggest blooding new players coz players take time to mature. If u dnt have patience well then its ur problem. If u want many youngsters in squad be ready to accept whatever results come. Also its the seniors who shud be questioned rather making young kids soft targets 

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The only criteria should be the overseas performance for any test player. If he is just a home track bully, then discard him without any hesitation as he is going to hinder the team's growth and development and set a very low standards. 

 

A good overseas 'A' tour performance should be the entry point for any player into the senior's team. So arrange as many overseas A tours as possible. 

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If test cricket is to survive, and if Indian management honestly wants it to survive, the first thing they need to do is limit the no of matches in IPL. Finish the IPL in 1 month.

They need to put a cap on the money players earn in IPL. 

 

The payout for Test team should be higher than the money earnt in IPL or T20 or LOI. Only then will players concentrate on it. 

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I think the time has come for the Indian selectors, players and especially the general public to choose between IPL and Test cricket. You can have one or the other not both. You can be essentially be good in only one of the above two things and I think the results in the last 7 years (11 tests lost in england alone) since the world cup win have shown what has been chosen.

 

If you are looking at how to select Test players make sure that they're not adulterated by IPL. Multiple format players are strictly to be banned except Kohli. The test team needs a lot of work and the problems just won't go away with short fixes. Make tests the highest paying format and reward the players more or most of them will be sucked up by the shorter formats.

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No quick fix. Just about everything is wrong with our system lol. It's actually a miracle that we are even producing half decent players these days across formats. 

 

Agree with a lot of posts above about IPL, multi format players etc. but money comes into the equation in those and that would hurt those with vested interests. But the real elephant in the room is domestic cricket. Let's face it. Ranji Trophy is beyond garbage and so are domestic 50 over competitions. They are supposed to produce finished products not to promote mediocrity. Too many half baked cricketers padding stats against weak teams etc. It needs to be torn down and replaced completely. Similarly for the 50 over competitions. 

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