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rtmohanlal

Won't it be the solution to play 3 all rounders on a consistant basis with Jadeja at no:6?

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Jadeja  avg:s around 50  with the bat and <25 with the ball in first class barring tests. That is  being great in both batting and bowling at least in first class.How many world class all rounders who have played the game as of now can boast of such a domestic record???

May be Sobers. Then Kapil? Botham? Imran?  no .... they don't have. And these 3 ATG bowling  all rounders didn't go on to become 40+

avg:ing test batsmen  either.Botham batted at 6 th position on the avg:.With Jadeja he has the added adv: that he is a spin bowler which takes far lesser toll on the body. And in my OP , i gave in detail his credentials. I don't know what more is required to at least give a chance at no: 6 .

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The expectation would have been for numbers 6,7 and 8 to make up for the lack of a specialist batsman at 6 Unfortunately neither Ashwin nor the keepers could even get to 40 runs which is pathetic and screwed the series for us. 

Now Jadeja and Pandya have stood out and these two should play maximum games but it took the team management the entire series to learn that

I wouldnt be surprised if in the Aus tour we make the same mistakes.Its always a case of what ifs with Kohli's team

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7 hours ago, zen said:

After a few games, if Jadeja does not live up to the high standards, many fans would be asking to replace Jadeja  

 

Disappointing. Strategically we are weak. Ind fans overrate their team and the players. They want the team to win everything. The players, including ATGs, usually don't live up to fan's high standards. Anyone who does well is automatically seen as a solution in the short term till he becomes inconsistent .... the cycle continues 

 

To improve selection in test cricket, first we have to acknowledge that Ashwin, Jadeja (though he has potential), Bhuvi, etc. are not test all-rounders. They are bowlers who can bat well. In the past, Kumble, Srinath, etc. had shown batting potential as well and perceived as players who can be all-rounders. We cannot imagine that the talent displayed in an occasional good inning will be continued by them consistently

 

Being an All-rounder is a responsibility. Unless you are a natural talent, you have to devote time to develop both aspect of your game. These guys are not even consistent in their primary area of strength. Coming out and playing a few good knocks here and there is different than becoming accountable as an all-rounder. A bad performance in your primary area can make your stock fall sharply like what happened to Ashwin in the last game. A good batting performance by him probably would not have saved him from criticism for the failure to deliver with the ball, his primary area  

 

 

Jadeja for sure has always been an alrounder. He may not have full-filled his promise but we cant say he was not an alrounder. averages 53 in FC cricket. Even likes of Dhawan and Vijay did not do that. So, there is certainly something.

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And the most important  factor  I think of  when  playing those 3 and 'even Kuldeep  too in Asia' is not all of them to technically  & effectively  do the 'role of a perfect all rounder' each, but to satisfy the theory that  'the sum of their parts' make up the contribution of specialists . Even in the on going series Ashwin & Pandya together avg:  around 41.5   in batting &  around 28.5 with the ball, and that is effectively playing a batsman and bowler each.And Jadeja.... as of now he is the best batsman and bowler in the lone test he is playing.

And this coming in an alien country gives too much hopes.

 

Just imagine a line up of  Jadeja,Ashwin,Pant,Pandya in that order.... 2 left handers, 2 right handers,  1 grafter, 1 'as per the situation' in Jadeja & other 2 explosive  batsmen. All 4  being at the crease for a continued period of time can bring in as much variety as  one can

ask for .Such  a line up is the most flexible and effective one to put as much runs on the board as possible.And they 4 together can easily

do the role of 2 specialist batsmen & 2specialist bowlers  each.

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I had always expected Jadeja to be better than Ashwin in batting. After a long overdue wait, he looks like he has reached his final level and ready to play a role as a good batsman down the order in tests. If he can play like this, he can play anywhere.  Certainly a plus for the future. He played well vs Australia  as well but the batting i saw yesterday was in a different league from the past.

 

And its equally disappointing that Pujara and Rahane are a bit stagnant and going though the motions.

 

However allrounders should not be misused. An allrounder cannot be played even at 7  as the wicket keeper is too raw. You need six specialists. Only when you have a solid contributor for a keeper, it is possible. But having  an allrounder is  far from a necessity.

 

I have been saying from 2013 that the no 6 batsman has to be developed. The 5th bowler and allrounder are no game changers.

It was always a going to be a waste of time.

 

Infact a pool of 7-8 batsmen has to be maintained. I would look at Shubnam Gill next year. IF  Baba Aparajith has a good season, he can be looked at too. 

 

Good that Vihari was brought in despite a low profile and he was always marked as a test batsman. It was great to see him adapting the challenge quickly. Very  impressive start.

 

 

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6 hours ago, SecondSlip said:

We are back to square one. This is why I am saying that we need a batting allrounder who can average at least 40 with the bat and can bowl 10-15 tight overs of spin bowling in a day at #6. 

 

 

As I said, we don't have one ready, as far as I know.

 

So, playing 5 bowling options means having a weaker No.6.  Moreover, most teams nowadays wants a bowler who can bat for the No.8 slot.

 

 

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Although just one innings is not a very good window to the future ...

 

but  Jadeja's innings yesterday was of a very high quality.  Broad and Anderson were bowling with accuracy and guile, the ball was swinging a lot and there was good bounce which Stokes and Broad used , some balls were spinning sharply from the rough for Rasheed and Moeen.

 

Jadeja showed impeccable understanding of where his off stump is ... left very well as a result, and not just on line but on length too ... did not poke at deliveries outside the off stump ... his bat speed was good and he did not push at deliveries while defending ... defended with soft hands ... but never missed any chance of scoring off bad balls ... spaced his innings well ... farmed the strike when tailenders were there ... negotiated the new ball ... started hitting when no.11 was there ... drove, pulled and cut well.

 

It must be one of the near perfect innings I have seen in swinging cinditions.

 

Jadeja may never play such an innings again ... but if he does, it bodes well for the future.

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5 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

from which site you got that 

I am talking about proper FC numbers excluding test stats. His FC average before test debut used to be around that number. Current FC stats include test and other FC games like warmups and tour games and A games.

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6 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

from which site you got that 

You can calculate it.

 

a )  Subtract Jadeja's test runs from total FC runs.

 

b )  Subtract Jadeja's test innings from total FC innings, after adjusting for not outs for both.

 

Divide  (a)  by  ( b)

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9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

You can calculate it.

 

a )  Subtract Jadeja's test runs from total FC runs.

 

b )  Subtract Jadeja's test innings from total FC innings, after adjusting for not outs for both.

 

Divide  (a)  by  ( b)

too many calculations for a simple guy like me 

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I am talking about proper FC numbers excluding test stats. His FC average before test debut used to be around that number. Current FC stats include test and other FC games like warmups and tour games and A games.

thats why i asked ,i thought you got the extracted ranji stats from some site.

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42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Although just one innings is not a very good window to the future ...

 

but  Jadeja's innings yesterday was of a very high quality.  Broad and Anderson were bowling with accuracy and guile, the ball was swinging a lot and there was good bounce which Stokes and Broad used , some balls were spinning sharply from the rough for Rasheed and Moeen.

 

Jadeja showed impeccable understanding of where his off stump is ... left very well as a result, and not just on line but on length too ... did not poke at deliveries outside the off stump ... his bat speed was good and he did not push at deliveries while defending ... defended with soft hands ... but never missed any chance of scoring off bad balls ... spaced his innings well ... farmed the strike when tailenders were there ... negotiated the new ball ... started hitting when no.11 was there ... drove, pulled and cut well.

 

It must be one of the near perfect innings I have seen in swinging cinditions.

 

Jadeja may never play such an innings again ... but if he does, it bodes well for the future.

definitely it was such a level  inns  which ' Jadeja was accused of not having the calibre to produce in his life time'. Scoring a 90 at home when  all things were in his favour was ok. Scoring  68  when it was even  for both teams was better. But  to score 86* when the chips were really down  against such high quality attack  and that too taking the rare oppertunity that came  his way speaks about the character of that man.I am sure he is the 6th position candidate.

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2 hours ago, motomaverick said:

Bhuvi is a swing bowler. He will be carted around on the Australian flatbeds.

We hype up the player who is not playing .... so we are like if he was playing, we would have to give solace to ourselves

 

when Jadeja was not playing, ppl were like if he was playing. Now he is playing and just scored a 100 with the ball 

 

BOWLING   O M R W ECON
JJ Bumrah   20 4 51 0 2.55
I Sharma   8 3 13 0 1.62
Mohammed Shami   14 3 50 1 3.57
RA Jadeja   27.6 3 100 1 3.57
GH Vihari   4 0 13 0 3.25
Edited by zen

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Ashwin, Bhuvi, etc as AR is a dumb thought floating around to solace ourselves   .... These guys are ARs when they are not playing. When they play, we want the guys not playing to be playing in their place

 

:rofl:

Edited by zen

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For now let us stick with vihari. Jadeja at no 6 with Pant as keeper :facepalm:. If the score is 40/4 we can straightaway assume that the innings is over

 

We need a batting allrounder. And we don't have a pace bowling allrounder like Curran woakes Stokes ..

 

Let's stick to our strength. Am sure we can find some spin bowling allrounders like Sundar, krunal, baba aparjith 

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23 minutes ago, R.D forever said:

For now let us stick with vihari. Jadeja at no 6 with Pant as keeper :facepalm:. If the score is 40/4 we can straightaway assume that the innings is over

 

We need a batting allrounder. And we don't have a pace bowling allrounder like Curran woakes Stokes ..

 

Let's stick to our strength. Am sure we can find some spin bowling allrounders like Sundar, krunal, baba aparjith 

Jadeja can play as a specialist bowler in helpful conditions .... not really useful in SENA 

 

we we are developing Pandya as an AR who can bowl with pace. Already won Ind a game so will get opportunities 

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@express bowling 

 

As I said yesterday, specialist spinners are barely going to take wickets in SENA regularly. It’s better to go in with a batting spin allrounder + 4 specialist fast bowlers to compete better. 

 

Just look at Jadeja’s bowling performance in the second innings that is currently going on. 

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3 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

@express bowling 

 

As I said yesterday, specialist spinners are barely going to take wickets in SENA regularly. It’s better to go in with a batting spin allrounder + 4 specialist fast bowlers to compete better. 

 

Just look at Jadeja’s bowling performance in the second innings that is currently going on. 

 

I said  yesterday that I agree with this concept  ...  but not finding any suitable candidate.

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59 minutes ago, zen said:

If Vihari picks up 2 wkts now, he will become the new AR material :lol:

W
Vihari to Root, OUT, Vihari has got a wicket in his first Test. And that too of the opposition captain. Root is looking for quick runs, and tries to slog-sweep this but it stops after pitching in the rough and takes a top edge to deep midwicket where substitute Pandya takes the catch

JE Root c sub (HH Pandya) b Vihari 125 (190b 12x4 1x6) SR: 65.78

 

::bow:

Edited by zen

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