Kapil as a test allrounder

[zen]

Was Kapil a consistent all-rounder or an impact all-rounder? 

 

Career summary vs. the strong side during his time:

 

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	5248	163	31.05	8	434	9/83	29.64	23	64	0	1.40	Profile
filtered	1978-1994	115	4584	129	30.15	7	385	9/83	29.96	22	60	0	0.18

 

 

Away

 

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	5248	163	31.05	8	434	9/83	29.64	23	64	0	1.40	Profile
filtered	1978-1994	59	2188	129	26.04	3	196	8/85	32.85	12	22	0	-6.80

 

 

Home

 

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	5248	163	31.05	8	434	9/83	29.64	23	64	0	1.40	Profile
filtered	1978-1993	56	2396	126*	35.23	4	189	9/83	26.97	10	38	0	8.26

[Nikola]

He had to bowl 20 - 25 overs in day and sometimes even more than that. As an all rounder he had alot work load as other trundlers didn't do their job. Stats sometime don't reveal many things.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Nikola

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Nikola said:

He had to bowl 20 - 25 overs in day and sometimes even more than that. As an all rounder he had alot work load as other trundlers did do their job. Stats sometime don't reveal many things.

Against strong sides, he bowled 4,100 overs in 197 inns, which is around 21 overs per inning (not day) 

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	227	4623.2	1060	12867	434	9/83	11/146	29.64	2.78	63.9	23	2	Profile
filtered	1978-1994	115	197	4099.5	910	11538	385	9/83	11/146	29.96	2.81	63.8	22	2

 

 

PS for perspective, Ind bowling in the 5th test 1st inning 

 

BOWLING	O	M	R	W	ECON	WD	NB
JJ Bumrah	30	9	83	3	2.76	0	0
I Sharma	31	12	62	3	2.00	0	0
GH Vihari	1	0	1	0	1.00	0	0
Mohammed Shami	30	7	72	0	2.40	0	0
RA Jadeja	30	0	79	4	2.63	0	0

Edited September 9, 2018 by zen

[rtmohanlal]

Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in  bowling and  based on the position he batted w.r.t batting.

 

for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling  unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his
first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!!

 

Another factor is work density.

Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days.
Kapil bowled  21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is  4128 days
that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61%

Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year.

Work densiy of Kapil  in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year.
Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference.

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[Tattieboy]

19 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in  bowling and  based on the position he batted w.r.t batting.

 

for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling  unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his
first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!!

 

Another factor is work density.

Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days.
Kapil bowled  21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is  4128 days
that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61%

Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year.

Work densiy of Kapil  in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year.
Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference.

 

 

 

Your work density of balls bowled per year are wrong 

[Soorma_Bhopali]

In 1970s and 80s , there were no weak teams like Zimbabwe or Bangaldesh  to pad  up the stats ..lot of top order batsmen used to average in mid-30s and late 30s . Having 45+ average was rare . In that context, his  batting average of 29 was not too bad.

[rtmohanlal]

45 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Your work density of balls bowled per year are wrong 

where did i go wrong???

[Tattieboy]

33 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

where did i go wrong???

You are only quoting test balls bowled not actual total balls bowled by each in a year. 

[rtmohanlal]

5 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

You are only quoting test balls bowled not actual total balls bowled by each in a year. 

that is the basic data. you shall conclude what ever based on that

[zen]

Kapil was one of the great ARs. But wanted him to fulfil is full potential. He was good enough to avg 40+ with the bat 

[Straight Drive]

I would say Kapil Dev was the best cricketer India has ever produced from those i have watched across decades (Vishy, Sunny, Sachin, Dravid,  Kohli).  

 

(1).No cricketer ever has one gone to WI in 1982/83 and dominated that worlds best pace attack in history of test cricket like the ATG all-rounder Kapil Dev..... without helmet. Sunny and Mohinder Amarnath have scored a ton against this pace quartet in same series, but no all-rounder has ever batted as well against those bowlers. His 100* against the bowling lineup of Andy Roberts, Malcolm Marshall, Joel Garner and Michael Holding.  He did that in 95 balls.  I doubt anyone in world cricket has scored at more than run a ball against the best pace attack in history of cricket at their home grounds. What was more significant that it ensured India could draw the test.Mohinder Amarnath too scored a ton in that second innings.  

 

(2.)His 9 wickets for 90 odd runs in an innings against WI remains the best pace bowling innings performance i have ever seen on the flat Ahmedabad wicket. I doubt any Indian pace bowler has ever taken a 9 wicket haul in a test innings.  Grenidge, Gomes, Richards, Lloyd were some of the main wickets he took.  Only Anil Kumble has picked 10 fer in innings against Pakistan at Kotla  which probably everyone is aware, but for an Indian pacer  Kapils 9 fer remains an unbroken record till date.

 

(3)His 175 in knockout match when we were 17/5 against Zimbabwe was fascinating. That counter attacking innings was something which Viv Richards would have been very happy.  Without that innings, the India would not have made the WC finals.

 

(4) His catch to dismiss Viv Richards in the final was a wonderful running catch. That wicket of Viv had a lot of say in our win.
 

I could go on an on about the impact player that Kapil paaji was but these are the top 4 efforts i remember from watching him play.  iirc he played 62 tests without a break, the rested for one test and then again played 63 tests without any break. No other all-rounder in history of this game was as fit as Kapil Dev. Gotta remember he did most of the bowling for India as well with his medium pace. No wonder he is a ATG all-rounder.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Straight Drive

[Rightarmfast]

On 9/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, rtmohanlal said:

Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in  bowling and  based on the position he batted w.r.t batting.

 

for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling  unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his
first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!!

 

Another factor is work density.

Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days.
Kapil bowled  21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is  4128 days
that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61%

Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year.

Work densiy of Kapil  in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year.
Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference.

 

 

 

Can you give an analysis viz a viz Imran Khan?

Edited January 1, 2019 by Rightarmfast

[velu]

On 9/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, rtmohanlal said:

Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in  bowling and  based on the position he batted w.r.t batting.

 

for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling  unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his
first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!!

 

Another factor is work density.

Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days.
Kapil bowled  21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is  4128 days
that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61%

Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year.

Work densiy of Kapil  in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year.
Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference.

 

 

 

 

chetta .. i am 99.98% sure that you have got plenty of time to burn

[neel roy]

4 hours ago, velu said:

 

chetta .. i am 99.98% sure that you have got plenty of time to burn

Appreciate the level of analysis.. these type of analysis and stats are rare to find even in wisden

[nevada]

On 9/10/2018 at 2:34 AM, Nikola said:

He had to bowl 20 - 25 overs in day and sometimes even more than that. As an all rounder he had alot work load as other trundlers didn't do their job. Stats sometime don't reveal many things.

He used to bowl accurately too, creating pressure which other bowlers reaped the benefit of. Another fact which stats don't reveal.

[rtmohanlal]

6 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Can you give an analysis viz a viz Imran Khan?

TRCTBI - total runs conceded,the bowler included
TWTTBI - total wickets taken,the bowler included
RCBTB -  runs conceeded by the bowler
WTBTB -  wickets taken by the bowler
TRCTBE - total runs conceded,the bowler excluded (support bowling strength)
TWTTBE - total wickets taken,the bowler excluded (support bowling strength)

 

 

 

bowler TRCTBI   TWTTBI   avg:    RCBTB    WTBTB  avg:   TRCTBE    TWTTBE    avg:

Imran  39354      1297    30.34     8258       362    22.81    31096        935        33.26 //full career stats of Imran

kapil     61403      1730    35.49   12867      434    29.64    48536       1296       37.45 //full career stats of Kapil

kapil     46175      1292    35.74   10222      354    28.87    35953         938       38.33  //till 20 nov 89 where Kapil bowled first 21000

                                                                                                                                     //balls & avg:ed 28.87

 

Above is the data . Here too , though not as much a difference  when compared to that of  Botham,  the difference is still  5.07  

in his first 21000 balls against Kapil .From that point on wards  till his career end,  with the arrival of Kumble,Srinath etc to assist him

he got better support so that his career end  bowl support avg: gets increased to 37.45

 

 

w.r.t work density , there is no need to even go for it because Imran bowled his 19500+ balls in long 21 years where as Kapil bowled his 27740 balls in just 15 y & 5 m.

Edited January 1, 2019 by rtmohanlal

[rtmohanlal]

6 hours ago, velu said:

 

chetta .. i am 99.98% sure that you have got plenty of time to burn

 

2 hours ago, neel roy said:

Appreciate the level of analysis.. these type of analysis and stats are rare to find even in wisden

this is simple data filtration mates . We can derive these stats from cricinfo itself. Only small basic calculations remained to be done.That's all.

[Temujin Khaghan]

On 9/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, rtmohanlal said:

Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in  bowling and  based on the position he batted w.r.t batting.

 

for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling  unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his
first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!!

 

Another factor is work density.

Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days.
Kapil bowled  21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is  4128 days
that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61%

Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year.

Work densiy of Kapil  in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year.
Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference.

 

 

 

meanwhile shahid afridi bowling donkey balls!!!

[Temujin Khaghan]

6 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Can you give an analysis viz a viz Imran Khan?

also he will give you his bank account details, first pay him something before giving such homework...

Edited January 1, 2019 by Temujin Khaghan

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

also he will give you his bank account details, first pay him something before giving such homework...

can't simply understand  what's the problem here.... a bit confused