No trundler policy

[zen]

There was a time when we were blessed with Roger Binny, Madan Lal, Chetan Sharma, etc.  In the 90s, Srinath came and we started to  that we get more such bowlers .... Now we have a bunch of bowlers who can bowl 140+ consistently -> Bumrah, Khaleel, Saini, Siraj, Pandya (AR), etc. .... And then we have a back up of useful bowlers who can bowl quick - Shami, Yadav and Ishant 

 

We need to impose a no trundler policy. No Bhuvi, Chahar, Thakur, Kaul and company unless conditions demand it 

 

No trundlers

[Laaloo]

 

I'd like to review this decision please. I love my trundlers!!!!!!

[tweaker]

I will not be surprised to see Kaul & Chahar soon in the team

[Nikola]

Start the good work by dropping biggest trundler with avg of Bradman. Bhubi.

[Suhaan]

Chahar and Kaul will probably replace Bhuvi

 

[express bowling]

Pacers who can bowl quick    or are quickish and tall    in India now

 

a)  In Team India

 

1. Bumrah  -  skilled  ( bouncy )

2. Shami  -  skilled

3. Umesh - swing and reverse swing

4. Khaleel  -  skilled   (  tall  )

5. Siraj  -  skilled for his experience level  (  tallish  )

6. Ishant  -  accurate in tests  (  tall  )

7. Pandya   (  tallish  )

 

b)   Playing for India-A

 

8. Saini  -  skilled  (  tallish  )

9. Rajpoot  -  skilled  (  tall  )

10. Prasidh  -  skilled for his experience level  (  tall  )

 

c)  Other prominent pacers

 

11. Mavi  -  skilled for his experience level   ( bouncy )

12. Nagarkoti  -   skilled for his experience level

13. Avesh  - Bowls a heavy ball  (  tall  )

14. Aaron    ( bouncy ) 

15. Khejroliya  - bowls a heavy ball  (  tall  )

16. Thampi -

17. Asif

18. Warrier - skilled for his experience level  (  tallish  )

19. Nathu  -  skilled for his experience level

20. Aniket C  -  skilled  (  tall  )

21. Sangwan

 

 

 

Prominent medium pacers    or short seamers without extra pace  

 

a)  In Team India

 

1.  Bhuvi  -  skilled 

2.  Kaul  -  not sufficient skills for his low pace and short height 

3. Chahar  -  just a swing bowler 

4. Thakur -   not sufficient skills for his standard pace and short height  

 

 

b)   Playing for India-A

 

5. Gurbani  -  just a swing bowler 

 

 

c)  Other prominent pacers

 

6. Unadkat  -  not sufficient skills for his low pace   ( tall )  played for India 6 months back

7. Dhawal  -  not sufficient skills for his low pace  

 

 

 

 

So ... we are seeing that most prominent trundlers are getting chances and quite a few skilled quicks are sitting out.

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by express bowling

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, zen said:

No Bhuvi

difficult since he is the best when it comes to a swinging seaming wicket and has very good death bowling skill.

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Vilander said:

difficult since he is the best when it comes to a swinging seaming wicket and has very good death bowling skill.

Even Kapil Dev could not do much when he lost his pace .... Bowlers like him can be played if conditions allow. His avg is high too and we have good options 

Edited October 3, 2018 by zen

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Even Kapil Dev could not do much when he lost his pace 

agreed, but we have seen Bhuvi is able to use optimum pace, while clearly not a fast bowler he has moved to fast medium and hit 140 + in effort balls in LOI and be around that 135 mark when he needs to even in tests - with his skill complement that makes him very effective. If say someone like  siraj comes in and does what he does but faster then yes - we had the same scenario there was an elaborate Umesh vs Bhuvi time...i was one of the troops that thought Umesh will get more and more accurate and swing both ways at 140 - 148..which he did in one Aus series and that BD home test unplayable stuff then reverted to line and length issues - the thing i like about Bhuv and Bumrah is that they are mostly accurate and deal with inaccurate lengths or make appropriate length and line changes within an ODI game leave alone a session worth in tests - thats gold.

[Vilander]

^ whilst agreeing that bhuv is mostly around 128-134 he has shown ability to hit higher speeds as a tool item.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Vilander said:

agreed, but we have seen Bhuvi is able to use optimum pace, while clearly not a fast bowler he has moved to fast medium and hit 140 + in effort balls in LOI and be around that 135 mark when he needs to even in tests - with his skill complement that makes him very effective. If say someone like  siraj comes in and does what he does but faster then yes - we had the same scenario there was an elaborate Umesh vs Bhuvi time...i was one of the troops that thought Umesh will get more and more accurate and swing both ways at 140 - 148..which he did in one Aus series and that BD home test unplayable stuff then reverted to line and length issues - the thing i like about Bhuv and Bumrah is that they are mostly accurate and deal with inaccurate lengths or make appropriate length and line changes within an ODI game leave alone a session worth in tests - thats gold.

As mentioned in OP, Bhuvi can be played if conditions demand .... But his avg is on the higher side and we have better options .... if we have a no trundler policy, bowlers like Bhuvi will have to do a lot better than what he has done so far

 

In the last two years in ODIs, Bhuvi has been one of our worst specialist quick/medium bowlers:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date greater than or equal to 3 Oct 2016

Qualifications innings bowled in greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Kuldeep Yadav	2017-2018	29	27	250.4	8	1166	58	6/25	20.10	4.65	25.9	2	1
JJ Bumrah	2016-2018	37	37	308.5	20	1451	61	5/27	23.78	4.69	30.3	1	1
YS Chahal	2017-2018	28	27	247.1	8	1194	45	5/22	26.53	4.83	32.9	1	1
UT Yadav	2016-2018	16	15	128.1	4	757	26	4/71	29.11	5.90	29.5	1	0
KM Jadhav	2016-2018	39	26	133.5	1	651	22	3/23	29.59	4.86	36.5	0	0
B Kumar	2017-2018	35	34	269.5	15	1375	36	5/42	38.19	5.09	44.9	0	1
AR Patel	2016-2017	13	13	120.1	3	538	14	3/34	38.42	4.47	51.5	0	0
HH Pandya	2016-2018	42	41	294.4	3	1638	40	3/31	40.95	5.55	44.2	0	0
RA Jadeja	2017-2018	14	14	127.0	2	637	15	4/29	42.46	5.01	50.8	1	0

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by zen

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

As mentioned in OP, Bhuvi can be played if conditions demand .... But his avg is on the higher side and we have better option .... if we have a no trundler policy, bowlers like Bhuvi will have to do a lot better 

 

In the last two years, Bhuvi is one of our worst specialist quick/medium bowlers:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date greater than or equal to 3 Oct 2016

Qualifications innings bowled in greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 9 of 9

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Kuldeep Yadav	2017-2018	29	27	250.4	8	1166	58	6/25	20.10	4.65	25.9	2	1
JJ Bumrah	2016-2018	37	37	308.5	20	1451	61	5/27	23.78	4.69	30.3	1	1
YS Chahal	2017-2018	28	27	247.1	8	1194	45	5/22	26.53	4.83	32.9	1	1
UT Yadav	2016-2018	16	15	128.1	4	757	26	4/71	29.11	5.90	29.5	1	0
KM Jadhav	2016-2018	39	26	133.5	1	651	22	3/23	29.59	4.86	36.5	0	0
B Kumar	2017-2018	35	34	269.5	15	1375	36	5/42	38.19	5.09	44.9	0	1
AR Patel	2016-2017	13	13	120.1	3	538	14	3/34	38.42	4.47	51.5	0	0
HH Pandya	2016-2018	42	41	294.4	3	1638	40	3/31	40.95	5.55	44.2	0	0
RA Jadeja	2017-2018	14	14	127.0	2	637	15	4/29	42.46	5.01	50.8	1	0

 

 

oh ok..we are talkng ODI.. 

 

but those stats are revealing still.  Umesh is doing fine in ODI. Bhuv is pretty poor in the same period. 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Vilander said:

oh ok..we are talkng ODI.. 

 

but those stats are revealing still.  Umesh is doing fine in ODI. Bhuv is pretty poor in the same period. 

Even in tests, Bhuvi will not do much in unhelpful conditions. He probably was played and only did well where the ball swung prodigiously 

Edited October 3, 2018 by zen

[SUMO]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Pacers who can bowl quick    or quickish with bounce     in India now

 

a)  In Team India

 

1. Bumrah  -  skilled  ( bouncy )

2. Shami  -  skilled

3. Umesh - swing and reverse swing

4. Khaleel  -  skilled   (  tall  )

5. Siraj  -  skilled for his experience level  (  tallish  )

6. Ishant  -  accurate in tests  (  tall  )

7. Pandya   (  tallish  )

 

b)   Playing for India-A

 

8. Saini  -  skilled  (  tallish  )

9. Rajpoot  -  skilled  (  tall  )

10. Prasidh  -  skilled for his experience level  (  tall  )

 

c)  Other prominent pacers

 

11. Mavi  -  skilled for his experience level   ( bouncy )

12. Nagarkoti  -   skilled for his experience level

13. Avesh  - Bowls a heavy ball  (  tall  )

14. Aaron    ( bouncy ) 

15. Khejroliya  - bowls a heavy ball  (  tall  )

16. Thampi -

17. Asif

18. Warrier - skilled for his experience level  (  tallish  )

19. Nathu  -  skilled for his experience level

20. Aniket C  -  skilled  (  tall  )

21. Sangwan

 

 

 

Prominent medium pacers    or short seamers without extra pace  

 

a)  In Team India

 

1.  Bhuvi  -  skilled 

2.  Kaul  -  not sufficient skills for his low pace and short height 

3. Chahar  -  just a swing bowler 

4. Thakur -   not sufficient skills for his standard pace and short height  

 

 

b)   Playing for India-A

 

5. Gurbani  -  just a swing bowler 

 

 

c)  Other prominent pacers

 

6. Unadkat  -  not sufficient skills for his low pace   ( tall )  played for India 6 months back

7. Dhawal  -  not sufficient skills for his low pace  

 

 

 

 

So ... we are seeing that most prominent trundlers are getting chances and quite a few skilled quicks are sitting out.

 

 

 

This gives hope that after kaul chahar thakur flops....next one will be from better lot for years to come.

[vvvslaxman]

39 minutes ago, zen said:

Even Kapil Dev could not do much when he lost his pace .... Bowlers like him can be played if conditions allow. His avg is high too and we have good options 

Bhuvi needs to pitch the ball up a lot more than he does.

[Vilander]

51 minutes ago, SUMO said:

This gives hope that after kaul chahar thakur flops....next one will be from better lot for years to come.

We deperately need our domestic batters to stop getting out to gurbani.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Vilander

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, SUMO said:

This gives hope that after kaul chahar thakur flops....next one will be from better lot for years to come.

 

Supply line is long for quick pacers  ... but new additions to our squads in the last one year or thereabouts ...  have been 4 trundlers and 2 quicks.

 

That is the worrying part.

 

The IPL successes are making their way into ODI teams.

 

But they are forgetting that the first 40 overs of ODIs are not like T20s.   T20 is the only format where some trundlers succeed as bowling variations is the key.    But bowling good lines and lengths at pace is needed in the first 40 overs of ODIs.

 

Who knows ... the next IPL may bring to the fore new trundlers who will get in the national squad quickly.

 

This is where a bit of vision and a clear idea about requirements of ODIs and tests is required.

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bhuvi needs to pitch the ball up a lot more than he does.

Pitch the ball means more thrashing.

[MK55]

The onus should be on Kohli. He should have the balls to demand quick bowlers who look promising for international cricket.

 

I get the feeling he just doesnt bother as long as he gets the 2 or 3 pacers that he wants. Very myopic vision

[Trichromatic]

Need bowlers who have good control over line and length. Trundlers or no trundlers wasn't an issue. Problem was that trundlers were considered as line and length bowlers who lacked pace, when in fact they hardly had any control. Have seen trundlers bowling short or on pads all the time. 

 

Any bowler who can bowl consistently at good line and lengths should play - Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi, Ishant all do that right now.