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Muloghonto

SECOND TEST VS WEST INDIES - A TEST OF LONG TERM PLANNING OR SHORT TERM THINKING

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As the title says, i think the next test will demonstrate whether this Indian team is interested in long term planning and the Australia series in mind, or simple short-term thinking for the sake of boosting averages against a minnow. 


Let me explain. 

India has a couple of concerns with its test team long-term, which would badly affect it in Australia: 

 

1. Lack of a stable opening duo. Emphasis on the word 'duo'. Regardless of how many runs Shaw scores in this or next test (doesnt look like he will bat again this test), it doesn't change the fact that the 2nd opener's slot is wide-open for Australia. Says a lot about India that the slot that seems 'taken' is the slot filled by a debutant currently. 

India has a few options here - go with Dhawan, give Rahul another shot to solidify his confidence for OZ or go for a new opener alltogether. 

My recommendation - give Mayank a chance and see how it pans out. 

 

2. Test Rahul in the middle order. His entire style of play, his runs, etc. are all indicative of a player not cut out to be an opener. He doesn't have the 1 in a million hand-eye coordination of Sehwag to make the late career middle order to opener jump. But he can learn, so that avenue isn't closed yet. Better to see if he can bat more assuredly in the middle order.


My recommendation - given Pujara's form overseas historically and currently, he should still be our first choice #3 but a couple of bad tests in OZ can bring back his gremlins. Give Rahul a chance in the middle to see if we have a viable alternative to Pujara at #3. 

 

3. Rest Kohli. Yes, he is amazing, but this team doesn't need Kohli to win vs the Windies. And if it does, we are in deep doo-doo in Australia. Rest him for the next test, to see how the batting order responds to him being left out. Will Rahane grab the chance with both hands ? Will someone else ?

 

If Kohli is not rested, definitely rest Rahane. Barring scoring an unbeaten triple, there is not much Rahane can do versus this West Indies attack that will boost his confidence for Australia. 

 

My recommendation ? Rest Kohli, give Rahane the captaincy and put him in the 'do or die' situation vs a minnow. This is the perfect opportunity for Rahane to test his mettle, as his sheer batting skill won't be tested by the Windies, so it will be all about his mindset & mental game.

 

4. Bat Vihari. He has been our ace in the domestic circuit for a while now and he needs more than a debut 50 in England (though very commendable) and 3 months rest before Australia. Giving him the opportunity to score big will be a good boost to his confidence and demonstrate the meritocracy of the lineup. 

 

5. Play next test with 3 pace bowlers. Yes, i know its counter-productive in India or vs the West Indies, but we need to see who amongst our pacers (apart from Ishant and Bumrah) can bowl well with the old ball. Maybe even give one of the young speedsters a go and see if they can seize the moment. Bottomline is in Australia we wont be bowling with 3 spinners and we dont need 3 spinners at home vs West Indies either. 

 

6. Rest Ashwin. He is still not 100% since his hip injury. No need to get him 'playing fit'. He needs rest and recouperation. It also gives us the opportunity to see if one of our spinners not named 'Jadeja or Ashwin' can be a spearhead spinner, atleast at home. 

 

As such, my lineup for test 2 would be:

 

Mayank 

Prithvi

Rahul

Pujara

Rahane*

Vihari

Pant +

Jadeja

Kuldeep/another spinner

pacer

pacer

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The trying of Vihari has also one pleasant upside: Hanuma seems to be the 'missing unicorn' of  Indian cricket of the last 7-8 years, something we took for granted forever and actually serves a very good purpose : a part time bowler who won't get  tonked around willy nilly and can give our bowling attack a break.

This was Amarnath, Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly etc's huge bonus value to us. 


Right now, we don't have a single batsman who can be relied upon to send down even 5 overs per innings in test cricket. 
Hanuma showed that he may have the ability to tie down one end and send 10-12 overs per innings if required, thus giving a 4-man bowling attack a much needed respite. 

As is, he averages nearly 6 overs per first class innings of bowling, keeping a neutral just over 3RPO going rate and an extremely respectable <40 average with the ball, while taking nearly 2 dozen FC wickets. 

If Vihari reaches his potential as a reliable middle order batsman who can send down a few overs of off-spin when in a bind, his value to Indian test team would be immense.

 

Edited by Muloghonto

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Mulo's back.  With a decent OP as well.  As is expected.

 

Disagree on pushing Rahul down and fitting Mayank in though.  Rahul sees himself as an opener, and I'm not sure pushing him down to #3 would work for him personally - although I do find the idea intriguing.  

 

I feel that radically re-jigging the batting unit is overkill ahead of the Aus tour.  And I'm not overly impressed by the runs that even Shaw will score against this Windies 'attack'.  I wouldn't want to carry a virgin opening 'duo' for a tour down under.  

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6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Wanted to Siraj and Saini to debut in this series. qtiya selectors. Saini is 25, Siraj 24, was perfect time to hand them debut. they again went for TTF Yadav.

There's absolutely no reason to deny Siraj a debut. We need to throw him into test cricket and see what he can do.  Kid has earned it.  Its likely he'll end up on the squad to Oz anyway, better that he gets a game at home or 2.  We could potentially have another Bumrah on our hands.  And to think, he's supposedly behind the likes of Shardul Thakur.   That's qtiyapa of the highest order.

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Mulo's back.  With a decent OP as well.  As is expected.

 

Disagree on pushing Rahul down and fitting Mayank in though.  Rahul sees himself as an opener, and I'm not sure pushing him down to #3 would work for him personally - although I do find the idea intriguing.  

 

I feel that radically re-jigging the batting unit is overkill ahead of the Aus tour.  And I'm not overly impressed by the runs that even Shaw will score against this Windies 'attack'.  I wouldn't want to carry a virgin opening 'duo' for a tour down under.  

Was not aware that Rahul genuinely fancies himself as an opener more than a middle order bat. That is a troubling sign, because it shows Rahul is not as mentally strong as Sehwag, who for example, relished being an opener but always saw himself as a 'middle order bat adapted to being an opener. His belief in himself did not change depending on the team needs, rather, he kept his belief and accomodated the team's needs'. 

 

The re-jigging of the batting order is of no consequence to the batting order itself - i am not saying we should carry the same batting order ahead if it clicks, to Australia. This is a perfect opportunity to test our bench strength. 


For eg, if we do play Vihari next game and he scores runs and Rahane doesn't, then it makes a strong case for dropping Rahane for first two tests in OZ and giving Vihari the spot. 

 

Same with having another opener - if he (Mayank in my eg) succeeds, i'd still go with Shaw + Rahul/Dhawan/Vijay for first two tests in OZ, but it gives us a better footing than recycling old players low on confidence due to ongoing failure (ie, after 2 tests in OZ) or blooding a complete newbie. 

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

As the title says, i think the next test will demonstrate whether this Indian team is interested in long term planning and the Australia series in mind, or simple short-term thinking for the sake of boosting averages against a minnow. 


Let me explain. 

India has a couple of concerns with its test team long-term, which would badly affect it in Australia: 

 

1. Lack of a stable opening duo. Emphasis on the word 'duo'. Regardless of how many runs Shaw scores in this or next test (doesnt look like he will bat again this test), it doesn't change the fact that the 2nd opener's slot is wide-open for Australia. Says a lot about India that the slot that seems 'taken' is the slot filled by a debutant currently. 

India has a few options here - go with Dhawan, give Rahul another shot to solidify his confidence for OZ or go for a new opener alltogether. 

My recommendation - give Mayank a chance and see how it pans out. 

 

2. Test Rahul in the middle order. His entire style of play, his runs, etc. are all indicative of a player not cut out to be an opener. He doesn't have the 1 in a million hand-eye coordination of Sehwag to make the late career middle order to opener jump. But he can learn, so that avenue isn't closed yet. Better to see if he can bat more assuredly in the middle order.


My recommendation - given Pujara's form overseas historically and currently, he should still be our first choice #3 but a couple of bad tests in OZ can bring back his gremlins. Give Rahul a chance in the middle to see if we have a viable alternative to Pujara at #3. 

 

3. Rest Kohli. Yes, he is amazing, but this team doesn't need Kohli to win vs the Windies. And if it does, we are in deep doo-doo in Australia. Rest him for the next test, to see how the batting order responds to him being left out. Will Rahane grab the chance with both hands ? Will someone else ?

 

If Kohli is not rested, definitely rest Rahane. Barring scoring an unbeaten triple, there is not much Rahane can do versus this West Indies attack that will boost his confidence for Australia. 

 

My recommendation ? Rest Kohli, give Rahane the captaincy and put him in the 'do or die' situation vs a minnow. This is the perfect opportunity for Rahane to test his mettle, as his sheer batting skill won't be tested by the Windies, so it will be all about his mindset & mental game.

 

4. Bat Vihari. He has been our ace in the domestic circuit for a while now and he needs more than a debut 50 in England (though very commendable) and 3 months rest before Australia. Giving him the opportunity to score big will be a good boost to his confidence and demonstrate the meritocracy of the lineup. 

 

5. Play next test with 3 pace bowlers. Yes, i know its counter-productive in India or vs the West Indies, but we need to see who amongst our pacers (apart from Ishant and Bumrah) can bowl well with the old ball. Maybe even give one of the young speedsters a go and see if they can seize the moment. Bottomline is in Australia we wont be bowling with 3 spinners and we dont need 3 spinners at home vs West Indies either. 

 

6. Rest Ashwin. He is still not 100% since his hip injury. No need to get him 'playing fit'. He needs rest and recouperation. It also gives us the opportunity to see if one of our spinners not named 'Jadeja or Ashwin' can be a spearhead spinner, atleast at home. 

 

As such, my lineup for test 2 would be:

 

Mayank 

Prithvi

Rahul

Pujara

Rahane*

Vihari

Pant +

Jadeja

Kuldeep/another spinner

pacer

pacer

Agree with this . However , siraj has to be one of those Pacers and I think Rahul should bat at 4 or 5. Pujara is decent enough at 3 . Rahul is a bit vulnerable in the top order .

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Disgree with resting kohli, pujara or rahane.

Rahane should play all next test and aus series. If he fails send him back to domestics for 1 year to resurrect himself.

Same with rahul.

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5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

As the title says, i think the next test will demonstrate whether this Indian team is interested in long term planning and the Australia series in mind, or simple short-term thinking for the sake of boosting averages against a minnow. 


Let me explain. 

India has a couple of concerns with its test team long-term, which would badly affect it in Australia: 

 

1. Lack of a stable opening duo. Emphasis on the word 'duo'. Regardless of how many runs Shaw scores in this or next test (doesnt look like he will bat again this test), it doesn't change the fact that the 2nd opener's slot is wide-open for Australia. Says a lot about India that the slot that seems 'taken' is the slot filled by a debutant currently. 

India has a few options here - go with Dhawan, give Rahul another shot to solidify his confidence for OZ or go for a new opener alltogether. 

My recommendation - give Mayank a chance and see how it pans out. 

 

2. Test Rahul in the middle order. His entire style of play, his runs, etc. are all indicative of a player not cut out to be an opener. He doesn't have the 1 in a million hand-eye coordination of Sehwag to make the late career middle order to opener jump. But he can learn, so that avenue isn't closed yet. Better to see if he can bat more assuredly in the middle order.


My recommendation - given Pujara's form overseas historically and currently, he should still be our first choice #3 but a couple of bad tests in OZ can bring back his gremlins. Give Rahul a chance in the middle to see if we have a viable alternative to Pujara at #3. 

 

3. Rest Kohli. Yes, he is amazing, but this team doesn't need Kohli to win vs the Windies. And if it does, we are in deep doo-doo in Australia. Rest him for the next test, to see how the batting order responds to him being left out. Will Rahane grab the chance with both hands ? Will someone else ?

 

If Kohli is not rested, definitely rest Rahane. Barring scoring an unbeaten triple, there is not much Rahane can do versus this West Indies attack that will boost his confidence for Australia. 

 

My recommendation ? Rest Kohli, give Rahane the captaincy and put him in the 'do or die' situation vs a minnow. This is the perfect opportunity for Rahane to test his mettle, as his sheer batting skill won't be tested by the Windies, so it will be all about his mindset & mental game.

 

4. Bat Vihari. He has been our ace in the domestic circuit for a while now and he needs more than a debut 50 in England (though very commendable) and 3 months rest before Australia. Giving him the opportunity to score big will be a good boost to his confidence and demonstrate the meritocracy of the lineup. 

 

5. Play next test with 3 pace bowlers. Yes, i know its counter-productive in India or vs the West Indies, but we need to see who amongst our pacers (apart from Ishant and Bumrah) can bowl well with the old ball. Maybe even give one of the young speedsters a go and see if they can seize the moment. Bottomline is in Australia we wont be bowling with 3 spinners and we dont need 3 spinners at home vs West Indies either. 

 

6. Rest Ashwin. He is still not 100% since his hip injury. No need to get him 'playing fit'. He needs rest and recouperation. It also gives us the opportunity to see if one of our spinners not named 'Jadeja or Ashwin' can be a spearhead spinner, atleast at home. 

 

As such, my lineup for test 2 would be:

 

Mayank 

Prithvi

Rahul

Pujara

Rahane*

Vihari

Pant +

Jadeja

Kuldeep/another spinner

pacer

pacer

Not any pacer pacer. Siraj and another pacer. If not now, then when?

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9 hours ago, sandeep said:

There's absolutely no reason to deny Siraj a debut. We need to throw him into test cricket and see what he can do.  Kid has earned it.  Its likely he'll end up on the squad to Oz anyway, better that he gets a game at home or 2.  We could potentially have another Bumrah on our hands.  And to think, he's supposedly behind the likes of Shardul Thakur.   That's qtiyapa of the highest order.

Saini has been very impressive too though didn't have as many wickets to show as Siraj but he is one those rare indian fast bowlers who combines PACs and accuracy with bounce together. His high arm action is perfect for Aus conditions. 

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7 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

The **** is Shami doing in the team after a dismal England series?

Lets not get started on whom all should be dropped based on performance in english series. We have a quiet a few names excluding those who have already been dropped. 

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10 hours ago, sandeep said:

Mulo's back.  With a decent OP as well.  As is expected.

 

Disagree on pushing Rahul down and fitting Mayank in though.  Rahul sees himself as an opener, and I'm not sure pushing him down to #3 would work for him personally - although I do find the idea intriguing.  

 

I feel that radically re-jigging the batting unit is overkill ahead of the Aus tour.  And I'm not overly impressed by the runs that even Shaw will score against this Windies 'attack'.  I wouldn't want to carry a virgin opening 'duo' for a tour down under.  

This.

@Muloghonto should spend more time in cricket section than the adultery thread.:p:

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If we were planning properly then Navdeep Saini is one pacer we would have tried in both tests against the West Indies.

 

In test matches, teams ideally need pace bowlers who can bowl a high percentage of deliveries in the right areas with good pace snd bounce.

 

Saini is that bowler along with Bumrah ofcourse.

 

In Australia, the ball won't swing much.  Seam movement is moderate.   Medium paced swing bowlers or inaccurate quick bowlers won't work there.

Edited by express bowling

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3 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Lets not get started on whom all should be dropped based on performance in english series. We have a quiet a few names excluding those who have already been dropped. 

Shami is too inconsistent. With age not on his side, this series could have been a great opportunity to try someone like Siraj.

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12 hours ago, express bowling said:

If we were planning properly then Navdeep Saini is one pacer we would have tried in both tests against the West Indies.

 

In test matches, teams ideally need pace bowlers who can bowl a high percentage of deliveries in the right areas with good pace snd bounce.

 

Saini is that bowler along with Bumrah ofcourse.

 

In Australia, the ball won't swing much.  Seam movement is moderate.   Medium paced swing bowlers or inaccurate quick bowlers won't work there.

We will try him probably when he reaches 30+ or reaches the pace of a Chahar/kaul

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I would play vihari at middle order bat at 5 and go with 4 pacers - siraj, ishant, bumrah and shami/bhuvi.

 

No Pandya unless he can bat in same vein as vihari. Not sure if we need a spinner in Australia especially on Gabba.

 

This is the problem if we play rahane. If rahane flops in second test and is dropped then we have a good combo.

 

Shaw , Rahul/mayank, pujara, Kohli, vihari, pant, Pandya,Ashwin, ishant,siraj,bumrah.

 

Hope they try out Vijay Shankar as well with the bat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If I am not wrong, the squad for WI the two tests is already announced. And if so, there would be no changes to the squad. As for playing 11, go with the following:

  • Shaw
  • Agarwal
  • Pujara
  • Kohli
  • Vihari
  • Pant
  • Jadeja
  • Ashwin
  • One of the Yadavs (Kuldeep favorite) 
  • Siraj
  • Shami

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Pujara should be  rested. An inns or 2  against  this  hapless Windies team  at home(would be a cake walk for Pujara) wouldn't prove any thing w.r.t Pujara's mettle in Australia. If he can't perform in AUS even after 7 series in SENA(mediocre in all )  till now,  that only means he is far from adequate.  BTW, expecting at least  an avg: of 40 from him for the sake of the team. Kohli , Ashwin  too should take a rest.

Just like Pujara's  case, Ashwin don't need a performance against these poor Windies  to prove his mettle his AUS, even more so becuuse of him being a bowler .

 

Play in Mayank,Hanuma & Siraj  in place of  these 3

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