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#MeToo India 2.0


coffee_rules

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1 minute ago, Shunya said:

Aah more accusations and more bullying. Typical feminazi harrasment. 

 

What mysogynist rant? Stop this harrasment and character assassination by throwing new accusations every post.

 

I clearly mentioned, I do not want to pass any judgements by becoming police, lawyer, judge myself. I do not want to follow your dictat of "Women are always true no matter what". This can be anyone who is a victim - men or women. Its better to live in a society which has a proper functioning system for all such cases. But feminazis are hell bent on mob lynching and breaking all laws turning it into banana republic without any accountability and most of them are hypocritical like you when it comes to their own men getting accused. And there is discrimination against men by these biased feminists, calling them out does not make anyone anti-woman. I am anti-feminists, want to have equal rights and stop the abuse of power by men and women alike. Your gross generalization and hatred for men every single time something wrong happens is not doing any good. 

 

1. What are proper functioning systems for your word vs mine ? Answer my scenario honestly and you will understand the reason for naming and shaming. 

 

2. No laws are being broken. Its their word vs the word of the perp. And the people being named and shamed are mostly serial offenders. 

 

3. you cannot be anti-feminist and want equal right for both the sexes. 

 

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10 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

n what is that vibe

Coz tanushree dutta has done bold stuff in her movies so means she is fake 

 

It was not an ego clash from her side, she said is not comfortable.......thats it baat khatam waha pe 

If a women is not comfortable thats it n to her support it wasnt conveyed to her before 

 

Getting her blacklisted through MNS

how is that justified??/

 

 

how do u justify this ?

 

https://www.opindia.com/2018/10/who-are-these-goons-jumping-on-tanushrees-car-from-this-2008-viral-video/

 

It was a mob incident gone astray which was instigated by some initial altercation with media. How many times have we seen such incidents in public? Gaadi gaadi takra jaata hain, people itna bawaal machate hain, ki duniya rukh jaati hain. There was no attack from any political party, goons etc. She's making it all up after some disagreement. She didn't like to be seen dancing with a char actor which might have taken down her value. She backed off with some illogical argument. 

Edited by coffee_rules
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49 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

stop beating around the bush to the question you quoted and answer it directly.

IDC if its a man or a woman. 


Since you are having trouble relating to the reality of this scenario for women, i will paint a similar scenario for you which you can relate:

Say I am your boss at work. I am a jovial, fun-loving kinda guy. Very considerate etc. 
We go on a business trip. 

After settling in in our respective rooms, we go for the business meeting the next day. Meeting goes well. On our way back to the hotel, i say ' we should celebrate today's job well done. 7 o'clock, my room. We are going to order a feast !

You say 'excellent idea boss'. 

7 o'clock arrives, you show up and there is already a trolley with 10 dishes and 3 bottles of wine. 

We eat, we do gup-shup. We put on the tv and start taking the piss out of Rahane's batting. 

We drink.

We watch more tv. 

As we watch tv, i come it beside you, put my hand on your crotch and start fondling you over the material. 

 You are shocked, but i have a sly smile on. 

I start unzipping your pants. You get up in an uproar and ask ' KYA HO RAHA HAYE YEH!!!!' 

I look at you directly and say ' SAALE, PICHLE DIN PAYDAA HUA HAI KYA ? Fine. You breathe a word about it, you are fired and i will sue you for defamation'.

 Then i kick you out of my room and cancel you from the rest of the business trip.

  

Deal with this scenario. Tell us what is 'proof' and how should you, the victim, proceed. 

I dunno what the proof is or how investigation works. Will have to read on police investigation protocols for crime, I am not expert at it so cannot say how to solve this or what proof is valid and what is not. You are asking this question in the wrong forum. Infact you should ask this to the police dept and educate all of us on how crime investigation is done. For eg. Rape, robbery, assault, murder - anything can happen in the example you provided. If investigating authority do not know how to investigate, there is a big problem I say which is the first thing everyone should demand. That is why I am more interested in empowering these authorities and make them competent. This includes police, lawyers, courts, workplace harrasment cells, women cell, etc - anyone that is more competent and authentic than twitter.

 

Also now tell me if you can imagine this story in your head so easily, what stops someone from creating a false story just like you have when they know that all they have to do is make a twitter ID and #metoo and the accused will be pronounced guilty. Isnt that wrong as well?

 

P.S sorry forgot to answer the question. I think I would be complaining to the higher authority, HR or harrasment cell whatever is available. And after that will file a police complaint and pursue that. If I dont get a result, than will go on an use media or other source to name and shame and try to find justice. Again, since this is hypothetical, I do not know how I would be feeling at that point of time. So my response might be different, not sure.

Edited by Shunya
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12 minutes ago, Shunya said:

I dunno what the proof is or how investigation works. Will have to read on police investigation protocols for crime, I am not expert at it so cannot say how to solve this or what proof is valid and what is not. You are asking this question in the wrong forum. Infact you should ask this to the police dept and educate all of us on how crime investigation is done. For eg. Rape, robbery, assault, murder - anything can happen in the example you provided. If investigating authority do not know how to investigate, there is a big problem I say which is the first thing everyone should demand. That is why I am more interested in empowering these authorities and make them competent. This includes police, lawyers, courts, workplace harrasment cells, women cell, etc - anyone that is more competent and authentic than twitter.

 

Also now tell me if you can imagine this story in your head so easily, what stops someone from creating a false story just like you have when they know that all they have to do is make a twitter ID and #metoo and the accused will be pronounced guilty. Isnt that wrong as well?

buddy, you are clueless. The fact that you are putting rape/sexual assault in the same group as robberty, assault or murder, is indicative that you know very little of the difference. The latter group of crimes leaves objective evidence behind. 

 

As to the scenaro i've painted that occurs all over the world, THERE IS NO PROOF. It is your word vs mine. 

You will say i touched your crotch,i will say i didn't. You are saying $hit coz you are after my job. Even if i raped you while you got too drunk (also happens), i will say no i didn't, you WANTED me, YOU made the first advance and we just had consentual sex. Now you just wanna exploit it for professional gain. You will say no, i will say yes. 


This is why rape/sexual harassment cases ALWAYS go the route of 'who has more credibility'. Learn these things before you argue. The internet is there to do quality research on almost all issues - there are many case files like these with transcripts online. 

What will happen, is the police will take a report, then ask you and me to both lawyer up. Then my lawyer and your lawyer will battle in court, trying to prove who's character and social reputation is superior. The one with better social reputation will win. 


Because there is no objective proof to these cases, it is FUNDAMENTALLY your word versus mine. 

 

Are there false allegations ? yes. But they are a statistical minority. Most objective research shows that less than 50% of cases are reported worldwide and of them anywhere between 2-10% are false accusations. Meaning that in entirity of numbers, the total % of false accusations are less than 1% to less than 5%. 

 

In cases where its fundamentally your word versus mine and where most of the crime isn't reported, with false accusations being a small minority of the cases, the lesser of two evils is to believe the accuser than to defend the accusee. Automatically it makes one closer to improving the rate of just dispensation. 

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Bollywood has supportecriminals like Salman, Sanjay. So I dont see as any difference. Its short memories and these accused will be just fine. But the hypocrisy is clear, these people in bollywood/tv talk a lot about social issues during film promotions, but when its about them, they do nothing and instead talk about introspection or some internal investigation.  

 

But a comman man have to be more careful, one can misuse the rules and wrongfully assuse another...

 

 

 

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 If people look at the issue from men vs women then there won't be any solution.  There is this perception that if you are a male you should defend all males  and all of them should be given the benefit of doubt. That will only allow this age-old problem to continue. As a man I don't have to defend any perverts, creeps walking around just because he is a "man". Sure there are some odd instances where man could be framed. But those are not norms. Those are exceptions. Given the track record of celebrities around the world who like to abuse the power for sexual favors i don't trust any of these guys. ONly one instance i had suspicion was Michael Jackson case where he unnecessarily had a settlement with a serial extortionist. 

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21 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

buddy, you are clueless. The fact that you are putting rape/sexual assault in the same group as robberty, assault or murder, is indicative that you know very little of the difference. The latter group of crimes leaves objective evidence behind. 

 

As to the scenaro i've painted that occurs all over the world, THERE IS NO PROOF. It is your word vs mine. 

You will say i touched your crotch,i will say i didn't. You are saying $hit coz you are after my job. Even if i raped you while you got too drunk (also happens), i will say no i didn't, you WANTED me, YOU made the first advance and we just had consentual sex. Now you just wanna exploit it for professional gain. You will say no, i will say yes. 


This is why rape/sexual harassment cases ALWAYS go the route of 'who has more credibility'. Learn these things before you argue. The internet is there to do quality research on almost all issues - there are many case files like these with transcripts online. 

What will happen, is the police will take a report, then ask you and me to both lawyer up. Then my lawyer and your lawyer will battle in court, trying to prove who's character and social reputation is superior. The one with better social reputation will win. 


Because there is no objective proof to these cases, it is FUNDAMENTALLY your word versus mine. 

 

Are there false allegations ? yes. But they are a statistical minority. Most objective research shows that less than 50% of cases are reported worldwide and of them anywhere between 2-10% are false accusations. Meaning that in entirity of numbers, the total % of false accusations are less than 1% to less than 5%. 

 

In cases where its fundamentally your word versus mine and where most of the crime isn't reported, with false accusations being a small minority of the cases, the lesser of two evils is to believe the accuser than to defend the accusee. Automatically it makes one closer to improving the rate of just dispensation

Great Thanks for sharing. I read this process for the first time. Dunno how it works though, will have to read further on "Who has more credibility wins" scenario. Can you please share the source of this information? Cos if there is no objective proof in these cases, how were things done so far and what would be the definition of harrasment or sexual harrasment?

 

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50 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

https://www.opindia.com/2018/10/who-are-these-goons-jumping-on-tanushrees-car-from-this-2008-viral-video/

 

It was a mob incident gone astray which was instigated by some initial altercation with media. How many times have we seen such incidents in public? Gaadi gaadi takra jaata hain, people itna bawaal machate hain, ki duniya rukh jaati hain. There was no attack from any political party, goons etc. She's making it all up after some disagreement. She didn't like to be seen dancing with a char actor which might have taken down her value. She backed off with some illogical argument. 

beating her car with car with camera n jumping on is mob incidence

4 actor, bhai konsi dunia men rehta hia .....wo kaam chodh ke kyun jayegi

she leave the money n fame that comes with item number, also item number gets u shows which is more money

 

aur ye jo iska explaination hai fraud hai, thats how u react like a gawar 

 

ye iss cameraman ki reality

 

 

3-3 eye witness aa chuke hia , par tumne kasam kha rkhi ki wo sahi nhin ho sakti kyun wo actress hai, on face blunt hia

Vanita women looks soft so she wud be innocent

 

why cnt both be innocent, image pe mat jao 

Even a prostitute has a right to complain against harrasment , then tanushree is an artist 

 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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4 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Great Thanks for sharing. I read this process for the first time. Dunno how it works though, will have to read further on "Who has more credibility wins" scenario. Can you please share the source of this information? Cos if there is no objective proof in these cases, how were things done so far and what would be the definition of harrasment or sexual harrasment?

 

google is your friend. There are reams and reams of sexual assault court cases on the internet, they ALL go this way. 

I just told you how things are/were done. Your lawyer will go around asking for your buddies and those who think well of you to give good character testimonies, my lawyer will do the same. Then we will go back to high school and find that one girl who was being bullied that we stood up for and she will come and say how you are an angel and she can never see you lie about this stuff. My lawyer will do the same. 

It will come down to who the judge/jury believes has a better story.

 

And in most one-off cases, the defendant wins. 

 

This is why naming and shaming them is so important, particularly for the serial abusers who are in position of power.

 

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10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

google is your friend. There are reams and reams of sexual assault court cases on the internet, they ALL go this way. 

I just told you how things are/were done. Your lawyer will go around asking for your buddies and those who think well of you to give good character testimonies, my lawyer will do the same. Then we will go back to high school and find that one girl who was being bullied that we stood up for and she will come and say how you are an angel and she can never see you lie about this stuff. My lawyer will do the same. 

It will come down to who the judge/jury believes has a better story.

 

And in most one-off cases, the defendant wins. 

 

This is why naming and shaming them is so important, particularly for the serial abusers who are in position of power.

 

Will hold onto that conclusion that naming and shaming is the right way or not for later. Good that we are discussing the main point now. Will read up a bit more aaram se...

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1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 Sure there are some odd instances where man could be framed. But those are not norms. 

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/false-rape-cases-in-delhi-delhi-commission-of-women-233222-2014-12-29

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/crime-city-43-rape-cases-that-we-solved-in-2016-were-false-say-police/articleshow/56748082.cms

Not odd instances this is a menace in India thanks to 2013 amendment. That's why you see a lot of men in India being critical of "always believe her" because they have seen how this is ruining lives of innocent men. 

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1 minute ago, Number said:

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/false-rape-cases-in-delhi-delhi-commission-of-women-233222-2014-12-29

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/crime-city-43-rape-cases-that-we-solved-in-2016-were-false-say-police/articleshow/56748082.cms

Not odd instances this is a menace in India thanks to 2013 amendment. That's why you see a lot of men in India being critical of "always believe her" because they have seen how this is ruining lives of innocent men. 

57% are true then?   why do you  support the 43%?

30 men raped a 11 year old girl for 6 months

5 guys raped a girl in a running bus pulling her intestines out and tossing her out

A 20 plus year old guy raped a 7 year old neighbour and tossed her body away and later killed his own mother

Look at the celebrities

Since 2017 , 252 celebrities were found to indulge in sexual harassment.

 

How many women are in the above list

 

https://www.vox.com/a/sexual-harassment-assault-allegations-list

 

That is why you have to check the credibility of the witness and see if there are any other ulterior motives. In the entertainment industry, it is much more common that women are subjected to this. Even way back in the 1950s Indian men directors asked the actresses to pose nude before casting. There is some evidence for that.  

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13 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

57% are true then?   why do you  support the 43%?

30 men raped a 11 year old girl for 6 months

5 guys raped a girl in a running bus pulling her intestines out and tossing her out

A 20 plus year old guy raped a 7 year old neighbour and tossed her body away and later killed his own mother

Look at the celebrities

Since 2017 , 252 celebrities were found to indulge in sexual harassment.

 

How many women are in the above list

 

https://www.vox.com/a/sexual-harassment-assault-allegations-list

 

That is why you have to check the credibility of the witness and see if there are any other ulterior motives. In the entertainment industry, it is much more common that women are subjected to this. Even way back in the 1950s Indian men directors asked the actresses to pose nude before casting. There is some evidence for that.  

Not supporting anything just saying 43% does not count as "odd instance". This is a menace and every man in India has right to be paranoid about "just believe her".

 

 

Edited by Number
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9 minutes ago, Number said:

One thing I feel is the punishment for rape must be totally overhauled.

For any age it should be surgical castration if possible even without anaesthesia. 

punitive punishment is far less of a detriment than better education.

Simple reality is, Indians need to talk about sex and sexual conduct with their children. Something that 99.9% Indian parents STILL dont do.

 

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23 minutes ago, Number said:

That I agree but I feel these two are completely different issues. 

The measure to reduce unreported cases can't be blind arrest and charge-sheet the accused. 

Also looking for absolute proof and letting creeps wander around based on this presumption will only embolden them. There is a risk for some group of people. But you police can investigate and clear them. But what about the trauma that a girl has to go through for the rest of her life? Do you think men are held to a higher standard as women? Men sleeping with multiple women is not really viewed as a crime or shame. In fact some consider it as an achievement. But would you say the same about women? If we continue operating under an "assumption" that every reported case is false we won't have a solution. I still doubt that statistics of 43%. What are the odds that they were considered because of the status of persons involved or the woman was not smart enough to corroborate her story. 

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