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#MeToo India 2.0

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Pehle toh tumne kabhi Alok Jee ke baare main kabhi Kuch  khulasa nahi kiya,  aaj  media ki afwaao ke baad tum bhi unke charitra par keechad uchalna shuru. 
 
Yeh toh Bandwagon pe jump maarne wali baat ho gayi. 
That's because I don't have energy to say all gossips at one time.
I only say relevant stuff at relevant times

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58 minutes ago, beetle said:

Do you know nana patekar or alok nath?

Can you vouch for them without knowing them ?

Do you know the same way as your spouse or sibling?

If a wife believes her husband, she should stand by him till he is not proven guilty.

Same goes for brother or son....unless there is clear prove .

 

Where is the question of hypocricy?

The case goes to court to be proven either ways.

How is it unfair?

 

As for these celebrities getting bad name

.....that is what being a celebrity means. You get in the spotlight for good or bad  very easily.

That is the price you pay for stardom.

 

 

 

 

 

Bollywood is all crap. Everyone is fake as per me. So I have no sides to take. Male, female, trans - all are fake.

 

But overall in general life, feminazis are constantly creating an atmosphere of hatred towards men which is a problem for me. Just like women were oppressed, now women want men to be oppressed. 

 

Naming and shaming should be accepted only after proper investigation or if competent authorities have failed in taking certain steps. For eg police not filing a case or your HR dept at work not acting on a complaint, etc. These depts who should be held accountable for not acting are the biggest culprits IMO. Just like diginity, mental peace of victim is important, what if the accused who is wrongly framed loses his/her dignity, mental peace or even life. Isnt that a problem for you at all?

 

I have a problem with "Women are always true and honest" This is gross injustice to every single man who is living his life in lawful manner. I face such discrimination in my life on daily basis as well. And IMO most of the feminist men are actually the biggest predators around. They just use this facade of being champions of feminism to eventually do everything that girls called harassment. 

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19 minutes ago, Shunya said:

 

But overall in general life, feminazis are constantly creating an atmosphere of hatred towards men which is a problem for me. Just like women were oppressed, now women want men to be oppressed. 

i see very little evidence of this, since the overwhelming majority of feminists simply want to equal the scales. Citing 1 out of a 1000 crackpot extremist does not prove your point. 

 

19 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Naming and shaming should be accepted only after proper investigation or if competent authorities have failed in taking certain steps. For eg police not filing a case or your HR dept at work not acting on a complaint, etc. These depts who should be held accountable for not acting are the biggest culprits IMO. Just like diginity, mental peace of victim is important, what if the accused who is wrongly framed loses his/her dignity, mental peace or even life. Isnt that a problem for you at all?

Whats the point of naming and shaming if there is proper police-work ? if found guilty, they are going to jail or going to offer compensation. 
I support naming and shaming in cases where evidence is not easily obtainable. 

As for dignity, peace, etc - the overwhelming majority of people being named are not false accusations. False accusations account for less than 10% of all accusations. 
So i see no problem with naming and shaming, where there is no legal consequences, considering that the 10% who are falsely accused, face no legal or criminal action due to simply naming and shaming. 

19 minutes ago, Shunya said:

I have a problem with "Women are always true and honest" This is gross injustice to every single man who is living his life in lawful manner.

This is not just about women. Men have also been sexually assaulted by women and they too are part of #MeToo. 
 

19 minutes ago, Shunya said:

I face such discrimination in my life on daily basis as well. 

People have falsely accused you of sexually inappropriate behaviour ?!

19 minutes ago, Shunya said:

And IMO most of the feminist men are actually the biggest predators around. They just use this facade of being champions of feminism to eventually do everything that girls called harassment. 

False. Most men who are feminist are simply tired of seeing women (and some men) suffer systemic injustices, especially when it comes to sexual assault. 

 

 

You all want ' innocent until proven guilty' before anyone accuses anyone of sexual crimes, but you all refuse to answer the simple question of what constitutes evidence, if  you invite me for dinner at your place, i accept and then you assault me sexually ? 

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https://www.ndtv.com/entertainment/singer-chinmayi-sripaada-names-poet-vairamuthu-in-metoo-story-siddharth-tweets-support-1929438?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

 

Year 2005/2006 maybe.
Veezhamattom. An album for Srilankan Tamizhs that I had sung in, as had Manikka Vinayagam sir.
I dont remember if it was a book or an album release or both now; the performances and launch happened in Switzerland in (Bern / Zurich maybe)

 

We sang. We went to Switzerland. We performed.

Everyone left. Only my mother and I were asked to stay back.

The organizer(I dont remember his name) asked me to visit Vairamuthu sir in a hotel in Lucerne.

 

 

3, maybe 4 years ago, he had a book release function & asked me to sing Tamizh Thaai vaazhthu.
I said I would be unable to.
He in turn responded ‘I ll tell (a politician) you spoke ill of him on stage, yelled at me and kept the phone down
I bawled. My parents in law consoled me

 

Then had the courage to call his manager back & told him ‘I ll go and tell the same politician you re lying because I have NEVER given a political speech and HE will trust ME.
This for refusing to sing.

And you ask why victims dont name him?!

To hell with those of you who do.

 

Vairamuthu was outed as an alleged sexual predator by several women on social media. Some harrowing accounts of survivors have been shared by Chimayi while many have been posted on Twitter by journalist Sandhya Menon, who has been posting #MeToo stories of several women.

 

.......................

 

 

QUestion to the cynics: what are these people gaining here by naming these guys.

Do you not see any positive from this?

Do you think this guy will dare to do this to another women so blatently in future?

 

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6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Harassment when she says no to your advances but you still try to force yourself on her

making any advance on a coworker is harrasment. Some people dont say no that does not mean they want it so its still harrasment. 

If you force yourself on some one its molestation or rape lol.. Be safe rkt.

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5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Correction: she has nothing to gain. Talking about an embarassing event, especially in a country where a large # of people will see you as 'damaged goods / sucks to be you/loss of dignity' sounds like plenty to lose. 

An ex-actress, who is not suing anyone, risking humiliation, scorn and not to mention, re-living a traumatic event, is pretty much the definition of a 'nothing to gain, lots to lose' situation. 

i dont think she is doing this to gain anything.  There was certainly an incident in 2008 but was that sexual harassment? I do not think it was a case of sexual harassment.  Yes, maybe misconduct or ill tempered behavior.  Both are different things.  

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3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

i You all want ' innocent until proven guilty' before anyone accuses anyone of sexual crimes, but you all refuse to answer the simple question of what constitutes evidence, if  you invite me for dinner at your place, i accept and then you assault me sexually ? 

Obviously any form of sexual assault is a crime, regardless of who has done it. There is no question about it. But sorry, I cannot accept that "women are always true and whatever they say has to be accepted" - This is just illogical and nowhere closer to justice. I would like police, courts, organizations, women cell in workplace, etc to be more empowered with proper guidelines on harrasment, sexual assaults, etc which takes up these cases and make sure it reaches the conclusion in timely manner.

 

If these organisations and law is not doing its job properly, then probably next you can use media/sm to further your case. But just writing stuff on Internet without any accountability should not be encouraged. It is just another form of bullying and harrasment. Today women are writing stuff against men, tomorrow men will start writing about women. All the slutshaming, character assassination, being hounded at workplace, etc will become norm as no lines are drawn and who knows people will even start killing each other based on twitter accusations. 

 

 

Edited by Shunya

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3 hours ago, Shunya said:

 

 

I have a problem with "Women are always true and honest" This is gross injustice to every single man who is living his life in lawful manner. I face such discrimination in my life on daily basis as well. And IMO most of the feminist men are actually the biggest predators around. They just use this facade of being champions of feminism to eventually do everything that girls called harassment. 

Men are also harassed by girls, may not be sexually but mentally, emotionally and financially.  There will always be issues till two genders exist.  Yes, number of incidents might decrease or increase based on the sensibility of the society or education but then even the highest educated have been guilty of doing the same.   

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1 hour ago, beetle said:

https://www.ndtv.com/ent

 

.......................

 

 

QUestion to the cynics: what are these people gaining here by naming these guys.

Do you not see any positive from this?

Do you think this guy will dare to do this to another women so blatently in future?

 

yes, he will.  You cannot change the nature.

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46 minutes ago, Vilander said:

making any advance on a coworker is harrasment. Some people dont say no that does not mean they want it so its still harrasment. 

If you force yourself on some one its molestation or rape lol.. Be safe rkt.

yes that is what i meant by harassment and by favors i did not mean sexual favors.  I meant like friendship or something.  No sane person will just go to a coworker and will ask for sexual favors.  It is stupid and idiotic.

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28 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Men are also harassed by girls, may not be sexually but mentally, emotionally and financially.  There will always be issues till two genders exist.  Yes, number of incidents might decrease or increase based on the sensibility of the society or education but then even the highest educated have been guilty of doing the same.   

are sirji abhi toh mooh mat khulwao mera... there are hundreds of incidents on daily basis in India where there is gross discrimination against men just because they are men. I even feel that because of this toxic environment created by feminists, some men cant even behave normally and have to roam around in fear of not being judged as sexual predators. Not every men is a rapist/molestor and they do not have to show their feminist credentials to be heard or be considered genuine.

 

Also, media pe toh there is no lines drawn on harrasment, sexual harrasment, assault, sexual assault, etc. In the power struggle and toxic environment of India in general, even arguments turn into rape threats and similarly rape accusations. So it becomes paramount to investigate instead of criminalizing someone's life based on something written on twitter. Not everything is bollywood drama, and lot of real peoples lives be destroyed bcos of this social media accusations and namecalling...

Edited by Shunya

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2 hours ago, beetle said:

.......................

 

 

QUestion to the cynics: what are these people gaining here by naming these guys.

Do you not see any positive from this?

Do you think this guy will dare to do this to another women so blatently in future?

 

Again, bollywood is kachra, let them * each other up, good that these things are finally being talked about.

 

There are positives like there is discussion happening, people need to be educated on harrasment, sexual harrasment, assualt, etc. Lot of things need to be defined and awareness has to be created on the procedures to handle and make it a safer workplace. And this includes women as well as men, sometimes an argument is turned into sexual harrasment case just because it is against women. So hopefully everyone should be educated about the laws, guidelines, procedures, etc. Obviously we all believe that punishment for sexual assualt, Rape should be very severe. There is no 2 ways about it. But on one hand while making punishment severe on one hand, we also need to make sure someone is not being trapped falsely.

 

But I still do not understand the logic that you are using to believe this. Is it enough for you if a women accuses someone? You just mentioned couple of posts back that you will stand by your husband if someone accuses him because you know him. For everyone else that you do not know, all that matters to you is "Women is always right"? If you bypass the law and investigation part and believe what is being written on twitter, then probably every men is a potential criminal. Instead of proclaiming every men that is being accused guilty, you might want to just support the victim and help them with justice. Stop these extreme reactions.

Edited by Shunya

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31 minutes ago, Shunya said:

are sirji abhi toh mooh mat khulwao mera... there are hundreds of incidents on daily basis in India where there is gross discrimination against men just because they are men. I even feel that because of this toxic environment created by feminists, some men cant even behave normally and have to roam around in fear of not being judged as sexual predators. Not every men is a rapist/molestor and they do not have to show their feminist credentials to be heard or be considered genuine.

 

Also, media pe toh there is no lines drawn on harrasment, sexual harrasment, assault, sexual assault, etc. In the power struggle and toxic environment of India in general, even arguments turn into rape threats and similarly rape accusations. So it becomes paramount to investigate instead of criminalizing someone's life based on something written on twitter. Not everything is bollywood drama, and lot of real peoples lives be destroyed bcos of this social media accusations and namecalling...

Regarding Bollywood, people may not believe but what I got from a former reporter and a writer who has written movies that young men, aspiring actors etc, are exploited and treated far worse than women even sexually and that person who said all this is a female herself.  Nowadays, these men have become easier targets as there is less risk to have chances of accusation of molestation or rape.

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7 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Again, bollywood is kachra, let them * each other up, good that these things are finally being talked about.

 

There are positives like there is discussion happening, people need to be educated on harrasment, sexual harrasment, assualt, etc. Lot of things need to be defined and awareness has to be created on the procedures to handle and make it a safer workplace. And this includes women as well as men, sometimes an argument is turned into sexual harrasment case just because it is against women. So hopefully everyone should be educated about the laws, guidelines, procedures, etc. Obviously we all believe that punishment for sexual assualt, Rape should be very severe. There is no 2 ways about it. But on one hand while making punishment severe on one hand, we also need to make sure someone is not being trapped falsely.

 

But I still do not understand the logic that you are using to believe this. Is it enough for you if a women accuses someone? You just mentioned couple of posts back that you will stand by your husband if someone accuses him because you know him. For everyone else that you do not know, all that matters to you is "Women is always right"? If you bypass the law and investigation part and believe what is being written on twitter, then probably every men is a potential criminal. Instead of proclaiming every men that is being accused guilty, you might want to just support the victim and help them with justice. Stop these extreme reactions.

I din't understand your logic.

I will support my husband for what I know him as.

If proven wrong , then what is there to support.

 

 

So what the hell do you want people to do.

Tell these women to shut up and let the country stay the same crap hole itvis for women.

Why the hell are guys like you so anti women that you cannot even see  random women getting support.

 

I feel sickened when I read the comment in the articles and then read comments here and yhen I realise why our country is one of the most dangerous places for women.

 

It is like most men in this country want to keepnthe status quo.Why change when it means they will have to give up the sweet luxury of casual harrassment.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Regarding Bollywood, people may not believe but what I got from a former reporter and a writer who has written movies that young men, aspiring actors etc, are exploited and treated far worse than women even sexually and that person who said all this is a female herself.  Nowadays, these men have become easier targets as there is less risk to have chances of accusation of molestation or rape.

Even in the modelling and fashion design industry.

 

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Regarding Bollywood, people may not believe but what I got from a former reporter and a writer who has written movies that young men, aspiring actors etc, are exploited and treated far worse than women even sexually and that person who said all this is a female herself.  Nowadays, these men have become easier targets as there is less risk to have chances of accusation of molestation or rape.
True- more so because The concept that men can too be harassed, sexually assaulted - is kind of alien and borderline funny/absurd to many people.

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Men are also harassed by girls, may not be sexually but mentally, emotionally and financially.  There will always be issues till two genders exist.  Yes, number of incidents might decrease or increase based on the sensibility of the society or education but then even the highest educated have been guilty of doing the same.   

It is difficult for men to even complain because other men laugh at them .A guy going to the police with a sexual harrassment complaint against a woman will more likely to have the policemen amused by his complaint .

 

Sexual abuse of transgenders is also rampant but we hardly hear about anyone going to the police or it becoming news.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Regarding Bollywood, people may not believe but what I got from a former reporter and a writer who has written movies that young men, aspiring actors etc, are exploited and treated far worse than women even sexually and that person who said all this is a female herself.  Nowadays, these men have become easier targets as there is less risk to have chances of accusation of molestation or rape.

Bollywood is total crap yaar. Cant trust anything coming out of there, everything seems fake. Nobody would even believe anything when the abuse is against men.

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My 3rd grade teacher harassed little girls. Even as a third grade all of us knew what he was upto. Feeling up the girls, Touching them inappropriately. Nobody even thought about telling this to parents. Because we felt too embarrassed even to talk about it.  Remember the olympic gym trainer who harassed over 5000 girls for years. Even winners. You think they all went with video evidence?

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3 hours ago, beetle said:

https://www.ndtv.com/entertainment/singer-chinmayi-sripaada-names-poet-vairamuthu-in-metoo-story-siddharth-tweets-support-1929438?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

 

Year 2005/2006 maybe.
Veezhamattom. An album for Srilankan Tamizhs that I had sung in, as had Manikka Vinayagam sir.
I dont remember if it was a book or an album release or both now; the performances and launch happened in Switzerland in (Bern / Zurich maybe)

 

We sang. We went to Switzerland. We performed.

Everyone left. Only my mother and I were asked to stay back.

The organizer(I dont remember his name) asked me to visit Vairamuthu sir in a hotel in Lucerne.

 

 

3, maybe 4 years ago, he had a book release function & asked me to sing Tamizh Thaai vaazhthu.
I said I would be unable to.
He in turn responded ‘I ll tell (a politician) you spoke ill of him on stage, yelled at me and kept the phone down
I bawled. My parents in law consoled me

 

Then had the courage to call his manager back & told him ‘I ll go and tell the same politician you re lying because I have NEVER given a political speech and HE will trust ME.
This for refusing to sing.

And you ask why victims dont name him?!

To hell with those of you who do.

 

Vairamuthu was outed as an alleged sexual predator by several women on social media. Some harrowing accounts of survivors have been shared by Chimayi while many have been posted on Twitter by journalist Sandhya Menon, who has been posting #MeToo stories of several women.

 

.......................

 

 

QUestion to the cynics: what are these people gaining here by naming these guys.

Do you not see any positive from this?

Do you think this guy will dare to do this to another women so blatently in future?

 

Yup Exactly. It is not as easy as it sounds. The first reaction of many women sometimes even parents is to keep quiet and let it pass a bad dream due to patriarchal culture. This has been true even more so in the United States. Look at how many women Bill Cosby abused over the years. Being filthy rich and an iconic figure nobody dared to complain about him until someone came forward. Others joined. If it had happened to one of the family members what would they exactly do? They will go around searching for proof?  Replace the woman with your wife or daughter or friend or any relative someone you can trust. The reaction will be very different. In this case, she took sometime before even telling her husband. She just came up with a super hit movie where she lent the voice to lead actress and sang 5 hit songs. Why would she need more popularity?  I see no reason why anyone would take the side of predators.

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31 minutes ago, beetle said:

So what the hell do you want people to do.

Tell these women to shut up and let the country stay the same crap hole itvis for women.

Stop passing judgements on media and accuse men of guilt without any sort of investigation or even basic complaint or rebuttals. You might end up destroying someone's life. You are doing same as slutshaming and character assasination that you oppose. This is not empowering women, this is just empowering media/social media and making the grounds of far bigger abuse in future. Helping a victim to use the law and system would be a good step if at all you are interested in justice and trying to make this country better.

 

39 minutes ago, beetle said:

Why the hell are guys like you so anti women that you cannot even see  random women getting support.

 

I feel sickened when I read the comment in the articles and then read comments here and yhen I realise why our country is one of the most dangerous places for women.

 

It is like most men in this country want to keepnthe status quo.Why change when it means they will have to give up the sweet luxury of casual harrassment.

 

Please keep this bullshit feminazi attitude to yourself. Stop directing your frustration against all men every time something wrong happens. By generalizing everyone people like you are creating even more toxic environment in our country. These people should also be punished alongside every accused for harrasment. Instead of making it a better place, to satisfy their ego, they end up harrasing lot more people.

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I din't understand your logic.
I will support my husband for what I know him as.
If proven wrong , then what is there to support.
 
 
So what the hell do you want people to do.
Tell these women to shut up and let the country stay the same crap hole itvis for women.
Why the hell are guys like you so anti women that you cannot even see  random women getting support.
 
I feel sickened when I read the comment in the articles and then read comments here and yhen I realise why our country is one of the most dangerous places for women.
 
It is like most men in this country want to keepnthe status quo.Why change when it means they will have to give up the sweet luxury of casual harrassment.
 
 
 


I understand as a woman you are emotional about this but I am not in agreement with what you say. That doesn't make me anti women whatsoever as I am not seeing it as man vs woman at all.
For me it's a case of one person accusing other person.

I refuse to take stand for anyone of them as I personally don't know them. I am not in a position to judge anyone of them. I don't want to be part of a mob which could potentially (even if the chances are slim) ruin an innocent person's life.

What I will support is a better infrastructure in place to tackle such issues in the future. Witnesses being accountable in such scenarios.

I thought we already have such things in place in corporate offices. I don't think anyone is kicked out from a company based on mere accusation either.

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Quote

Indian flight attendant accuses Arjuna Ranatunga of sexual harassment

“My starstruck colleague spotted Indian and Sri Lankan cricketers in the elevator of Hotel Juhu Centaur, Mumbai and decided to meet them in their room for autographs. I decided to chaperone her, fearing for her safety, we were offered drinks (perhaps laced) I declined and stuck to my bottle of water I’d brought along. They were 7 and we 2, they latched the room door putting the chain secure. My discomfort growing inside of me, I urged her to get back to our room.”

“She was smitten and wanted to go for a stroll by the poolside, this was at 19:00 hrs, the walk to the pool a desolate, unlit pathway at the back of the hotel, I look back to find (her friend) and the Indian cricketer nowhere in sight.”

 

“Ranatunga grabs me by waist, sliding his hands along the side of my breasts, I scream fearing the worst, kicking on his legs and feet. Threatening him of dire consequences, passport cancellation, reporting it to the cops etc., for he is a Sri Lankan misbehaving with an Indian. Wasting no time, I dashed for the hotel reception a good run on an incline screaming on top of my voice. The reception said, “it is your private matter” and that they can’t help me,” the Facebook post read.

https://www.crictracker.com/indian-flight-attendant-accuses-arjuna-ranatunga-of-sexual-harrasement/

 

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2 hours ago, Shunya said:

Stop passing judgements on media and accuse men of guilt without any sort of investigation or even basic complaint or rebuttals. You might end up destroying someone's life. You are doing same as slutshaming and character assasination that you oppose. This is not empowering women, this is just empowering media/social media and making the grounds of far bigger abuse in future. Helping a victim to use the law and system would be a good step if at all you are interested in justice and trying to make this country better.

 

Please keep this bullshit feminazi attitude to yourself. Stop directing your frustration against all men every time something wrong happens. By generalizing everyone people like you are creating even more toxic environment in our country. These people should also be punished alongside every accused for harrasment. Instead of making it a better place, to satisfy their ego, they end up harrasing lot more people.

Keep writing.

You are exposing yourself as the problem this country has.

And stop telling people what to think , feel and write.

You and men like you are the reason why this country is one of the unsafest place foe women on earth . You guys encourage this unsafe environment .

 

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54 minutes ago, nikred said:


 

 


I understand as a woman you are emotional about this but I am not in agreement with what you say. That doesn't make me anti women whatsoever as I am not seeing it as man vs woman at all.
For me it's a case of one person accusing other person.

I refuse to take stand for anyone of them as I personally don't know them. I am not in a position to judge anyone of them. I don't want to be part of a mob which could potentially (even if the chances are slim) ruin an innocent person's life.

What I will support is a better infrastructure in place to tackle such issues in the future. Witnesses being accountable in such scenarios.

I thought we already have such things in place in corporate offices. I don't think anyone is kicked out from a company based on mere accusation either.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
 

 

That is because these things happen in dark. It took months of planning from Gretchen Carlsen who was a star for their network to gather evidence against a giant like Roger Ailes. Not every poor girl can afford to do that. They could be threatened. They could reverse the truth and blame the victim. They could be financially crippled. First and foremost reaction should be "not to trust" or "Trust" them. First thing one should do is "Listen". Then you go from there. But some try to discredit her story based on the person they accuse of. So they are already taking a side. This is in the interest of future women. It could be our daughters, friend's daughters, relatives. Lot of young girls will be terrified of reporting even a major incident if we start discounting, discrediting their story at the outset. Give them the power to report first before discussing about "proof" "victimization of innocent men".  That will follow later. Trust me majority of these men are not "innocent".  They always have an ugly side. 

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Sona Mohapatra lashes out at Kailash Kher, narrates her own Me Too story

https://www.hindustantimes.com/music/sona-mohapatra-lashes-out-at-kailash-kher-narrates-her-own-me-too-story/story-ojYU5pJypOJpVMtwBEG2TL.html

Sona Mohapatra has always been vocal about her views on social issues and never minces any words in expressing her disappointment with people in the industry. After a photojournalist Natasha Hemrajani shared her Me Too experience at the hands of singer Kailash Kher in 2006, a fan recounted her experience with the singer and another unnamed journalist accused him of harassment, now Sona has spoken about her encounter with Kailash. She took to Twitter to share a detailed account of her own ordeal

Retweeting the fan’s confession, Sona shared her experience with the Allah ke Bande singer in a series of tweets. Sharing the details of her meeting with Kailash at Prithvi Cafe in Mumbai, she wrote, “I met Kailash for coffee in Prithvi Café to discuss a forthcoming concert where both our bands were playing & after the usual, a hand on my thigh with lines likes, your so beautiful, feel so good that a ‘musician got you’ (Ram) not an actor. I left not soon after.”

Sona also mentioned how Kailash’s misbehaviour continued even as they landed in Dhaka for a concert. She wrote, “That did not deter Kailash Kher though. On landing in Dhaka & on my way to the venue with the organisers, keeps calling me & when I don’t pick up, calls the organisers phone to get through to me & asks me to ‘skip’ the soundcheck & join him in his room instead to ‘catch up’.”

 

Speaking about her association with the singer, Sona continued, “The fact that Kailash had sung in my studios & for many projects in which I was the producer & knew me to be as strong as i am or that he had only recently taken a favour from my partner @RamSampathLive to create a personal track for him didn’t stop him. #TheHubris of such #men.”

She also turned down his apology towards a victim for being too little, too late.

She went on to blast Kailash on the social media for calling himself ‘simple’ and ‘devoted to music’.

Making herself clear on the matter, Sona also stated that she wasn’t anonymous and added, “This isn’t to say that anyone should get accused wrongly, multiple people corroborating a story always better.”

Interestingly, the singer has supported Sacred Games writer Varun Grover who has also been accused of sexual harassment by an unknown woman. She wrote, “Know & really like Varun for some years.” and added, “I personally hope to see his name cleared.”

 

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11 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Tanushree is now married and not working in movies anymore.  She has nothing to lose now. So, she is not risking anything in this case. 

By that same token, she doesn't have much to gain.  And its not as if she is jumping in with a new complaint.  She actually filed a complaint 10 years ago but it went nowhere.

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Quote

Sandhya Mridul extends support to Vinta Nanda, says Alok Nath attacked her on TV show sets

https://www.hindustantimes.com/tv/sandhya-mridul-extends-support-to-vinta-nanda-says-alok-nath-attacked-her-on-tv-show-sets/story-ydfB9jmW8bpFeCtavJZZsI.html

Here is Sandhya’s full note:

At the very start of my career, I was shooting a telefilm in Kodaikanal. I was the lead. And very excited. Alok Nath was my on-screen father and Reema Lagoo my mother.

Alok Nath was very impressed with me and called me “God’s own child” and openly praised me every day. I was over the moon. I was a huge fan of this wonderful Babuji.. I felt so fortunate happy and confident.

Till one night after an early pack up. The cast went out for dinner. At dinner he got progressively drunk and started insisting I sit with him and that I belonged to him and other stuff that I don’t clearly remember but it made me very nervous and uncomfortable. My co-star realised what was happening and got me out of there.

We went back to the hotel without dinner. It was late and I was back in my room and the costume dada came to my room to give me my clothes for the next day as I had a very early call time. Few minutes after he left there was a knock on my door I opened the door thinking it was him again .. it was an inebriated Alok Nath I instinctively tried to shut the door but he pushed it and lunged at me, I stepped aside he went flying past me into the room .. I fell back toward the bathroom door he lunged at me again screaming I want you you’re mine .. I dodged again he went into the bathroom and I think I latched the loo door and ran out of my room down the corridor into the lobby. Fortunately, my DoP was there making a call from the reception ..

He came back to my room what ensued was traumatic because a belligerent Alok Nath refused to leave.. kept screaming shouting threatening abusing trying to grab me.. but at some point we managed to make him leave. The hairdresser was called and made to sleep in my room I was so shaken up.

In a few hours I had scenes with Bauji, in one I had to sit on his lap and cry. I still feel nauseous when i think of it.

It didn’t stop there .. every evening he would drink and every night calls were made to my room. I dreaded the ring.. I had to keep it off the hook most of the times. But then he would come calling. It was a catch 22 situation. I had the hairdresser moved in to my room permanently. I was a nervous wreck.

Few days later I got very sick & was laid up and couldn’t shoot. The stress had broken me. He continued to traumatise me with calls. And knocks. The hairdresser would answer. One day when he landed up at the door and cried and begged to be allowed in to sodas to me to apologise.. I couldn’t take it anymore I told her to accompany him in..he pulled a chair next to my bed and howled. Said he was an alcoholic and that he had destroyed everything his family his marriage everything’s and I was like his daughter and he respected me and that he was very sorry. He says he had learnt his lesson and that he would go to therapy and change it all..

I finally broke my silence I screamed shouted cried and it was done. I believed him. I had to.

He left. He got away. I don’t know how I shot with him for the remaining days and weeks.

I’m grateful to my co-actors , my DOP & especially the late Reema lagoo for finally taking him on & protecting me like a mother from then on.

But it was too late. The damage was done. A very disillusioned, disgraced & unsure me returned home. He went on to return to Bombay and tell people I was difficult and arrogant. All apologies forgotten. He was a popular man I was a newbie. He laid the foundation others like him built on. All those who heard ‘No’. Attitude my biggest crime. The deal breaker.

Mr. Alok Nath. You know this to be true. As do few others.

I had to forgive you for myself then and for my sanity but I will never forgive you for what you did with Vinta. Whom I have always respected and loved.

I stand by you Vinta. What I went through is nothing compared to you. I’m so sorry.

More power to you.

To us all.

I’m certain there are others. I urge you to come forward.

“Your time is up Sir”.

The problem is sexual harassment has been open to interpretation.

I come from a time when nobody wanted to hear. I was a nobody. When I tried to speak I was labelled arrogant and difficult.

And replaced from work.

And there was no social media to make ourselves heard, directly.

It’s taken me years to lay those demons to rest and move on.

And just stay away from it all.

But it never actually goes away. Does it?

I do little work because I do it with people I trust. And those who respect me. My choices.

I felt I had two choices then. One , to fight for work or two to preserve my dignity.

And stay away from the conflict, the ugliness and embarrassment to me and my family.

Which to me meant silence.

I chose the latter. At that point.

It’s way different now, they know me so I’m spared. From abuse.

And from work.

Even though i managed to escape or prevent it somehow and it never reached the point where i was assaulted physically.

My soul was. My creativity was. My career was.

But I stood my ground. As shaky as it got.

My bold bindaas badass image comes from there.

But nobody wanted to work with “such a woman.”

Yes I was told that. On many occasions.

My career was set in stone.

What Tanushree has started is admirable.

I’m happy now women can speak go on social media. So there’s that platform.

And it’s pretty powerful. I believe.

We have a voice finally.

I have a lot more to say. But it’s been buried so long. I need to dig up what I buried.

For that I need more courage and clarity.

I need time.

Yes, some of us need time. To dig into the shame and darkness we’ve buried to be able to work with strength and dignity.

I’m work in progress.

And where do I begin?

So much happened that I can’t remember.

And the worst part is I don’t have evidence anymore.

Except for me.

But I stand with Tanushree. And Vinta. And every woman. Who has been through this & will follow suit and break her silence.

We have a voice.

I’d like to tell all the newcomers that they should use it. Correctly. Honestly. Wisely. Fearlessly.

Don’t be ashamed.

Don’t be scared.

Don’t bury.

Don’t let it fester. And corrode your soul.

Let’s Speak.

Let’s keep this fire going.

#TimesUp

 

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29 minutes ago, beetle said:

Keep writing.

You are exposing yourself as the problem this country has.

 And stop telling people what to think , feel and write.

 You and men like you are the reason why this country is one of the unsafest place foe women on earth . You guys encourage this unsafe environment .

 

Stop harassing me. You have lost your mind.

It was Ok being hypocritical and biased. But now everyone who doesn't agree with you becomes anti-woman and criminals. Oh wait you are a feminazi, you can just accuse anyone and everyone as you feel. 

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13 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Stop harassing me. You have lost your mind.

It was Ok being hypocritical and biased. But now everyone who doesn't agree with you becomes anti-woman and criminals. Oh wait you are a feminazi, you can just accuse anyone and everyone as you feel. 

You can stop quoting me .

And you think you can just use the word feminazi for any one who doesn't accept your mysogynist rant and  justify your stance.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, beetle said:

If the me too movement is going to lessen the sexual exploitation of the little girls of today in future...then it will be a huge achievement .

If it empowers the little girls of today to not take this crap quietly , then it is a huge success.

 

I don't understand the cynics. It is like they don't have women in their lives that they love and care for. These women and girls in their lives live in the same **** world and face and will face the same problems . 

Do they think their wives and sisters and daughters have a seperate world that is all nice and innocent ?

 

Your sister and daughter may have to face the same kind of perverts when they go out of home or even in the home .what are they going to do then? Tell them to stay quiet if they don't have evidence of the abuse.

 

Creating an environment when the victims feel shamed or feel they should not  speak out because they have no solid evidence is also encouraging sexual harrassment .

@beetle ji, I may be woron but you seem to be confusing issue. 

MeToo is a movement of strong women to that of day today stuff that goes in society. The social stuff you are on about is most deplorable thing and their is no room for it in society. Its unlawful behavior and law must be able to enforce it.

 

Now back to meToo. For example, Asking for a coffee to someone is never unlawful but asking your subordinate for a coffee could be classed sexual harrasment in corporate world. In India a junior male will confidently go out with her female boss, while a female sobordinate will have so many things in her mind if he male boss has asked the same. MeToo is for those subordinate types who felt uncomfortable to go on coffee but knew that if they dont go, their career may be over.  meToo definitely about calling it a sexual harrasment if further uncomfortable situation comes after going on that uncomfortable cup of coffee.

 

Corporate world, have created and trained its employees with set of rules. However its time when sectors like Entertainment, and other sectors and (small businesses bigger then certain number of employee count) should take a cue and came with  stringent rules and procedures. For example a doctor should have to go through disciplinary proceedings of Medical council and may be struck off register if he is found to be doing something inappropriate.

 

Its time various sectors took some measures and do something about safety of women in that sectors

 

 

May be it can be classed as sexists but I dont care to change it now. For me, males have moral responsibility to provide best possible comfortable atmosphere to females. Every male should know their boundary, and limit himself to it, and boundry being females around them feel comfortable by their words,actions expectations. Its females job to let man cross that boundary and make the man happier . Teach this to your sons and we will get resolution to social issues of India:bow:

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5 hours ago, Shunya said:

Obviously any form of sexual assault is a crime, regardless of who has done it. There is no question about it. But sorry, I cannot accept that "women are always true and whatever they say has to be accepted" - This is just illogical and nowhere closer to justice. I would like police, courts, organizations, women cell in workplace, etc to be more empowered with proper guidelines on harrasment, sexual assaults, etc which takes up these cases and make sure it reaches the conclusion in timely manner.

 

If these organisations and law is not doing its job properly, then probably next you can use media/sm to further your case. But just writing stuff on Internet without any accountability should not be encouraged. It is just another form of bullying and harrasment. Today women are writing stuff against men, tomorrow men will start writing about women. All the slutshaming, character assassination, being hounded at workplace, etc will become norm as no lines are drawn and who knows people will even start killing each other based on twitter accusations. 

 

 

stop beating around the bush to the question you quoted and answer it directly.

IDC if its a man or a woman. 


Since you are having trouble relating to the reality of this scenario for women, i will paint a similar scenario for you which you can relate:

Say I am your boss at work. I am a jovial, fun-loving kinda guy. Very considerate etc. 
We go on a business trip. 

After settling in in our respective rooms, we go for the business meeting the next day. Meeting goes well. On our way back to the hotel, i say ' we should celebrate today's job well done. 7 o'clock, my room. We are going to order a feast !

You say 'excellent idea boss'. 

7 o'clock arrives, you show up and there is already a trolley with 10 dishes and 3 bottles of wine. 

We eat, we do gup-shup. We put on the tv and start taking the piss out of Rahane's batting. 

We drink.

We watch more tv. 

As we watch tv, i come it beside you, put my hand on your crotch and start fondling you over the material. 

You are shocked, but i have a sly smile on. 

I start unzipping your pants. You get up in an uproar and ask ' KYA HO RAHA HAYE YEH!!!!' 

I look at you directly and say ' SAALE, PICHLE DIN PAYDAA HUA HAI KYA ? Fine. You breathe a word about it, you are fired and i will sue you for defamation'.

Then i kick you out of my room and cancel you from the rest of the business trip.

 

Deal with this scenario. Tell us what is 'proof' and how should you, the victim, proceed. 

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32 minutes ago, beetle said:

You can stop quoting me .

And you think you can just use the word feminazi for any one who doesn't accept your mysogynist rant and  justify your stance.

 

 

 

Aah more accusations and more bullying. Typical feminazi harrasment. 

 

What mysogynist rant? Stop this harrasment and character assassination by throwing new accusations every post.

 

I clearly mentioned, I do not want to pass any judgements by becoming police, lawyer, judge myself. I do not want to follow your dictat of "Women are always true no matter what". This can be anyone who is a victim - men or women. Its better to live in a society which has a proper functioning system for all such cases. But feminazis are hell bent on mob lynching and breaking all laws turning it into banana republic without any accountability and most of them are hypocritical like you when it comes to their own men getting accused. And there is discrimination against men by these biased feminists, calling them out does not make anyone anti-woman. I am anti-feminists, want to have equal rights and stop the abuse of power by men and women alike. Your gross generalization and hatred for men every single time something wrong happens is not doing any good. 

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1 minute ago, Shunya said:

Aah more accusations and more bullying. Typical feminazi harrasment. 

 

What mysogynist rant? Stop this harrasment and character assassination by throwing new accusations every post.

 

I clearly mentioned, I do not want to pass any judgements by becoming police, lawyer, judge myself. I do not want to follow your dictat of "Women are always true no matter what". This can be anyone who is a victim - men or women. Its better to live in a society which has a proper functioning system for all such cases. But feminazis are hell bent on mob lynching and breaking all laws turning it into banana republic without any accountability and most of them are hypocritical like you when it comes to their own men getting accused. And there is discrimination against men by these biased feminists, calling them out does not make anyone anti-woman. I am anti-feminists, want to have equal rights and stop the abuse of power by men and women alike. Your gross generalization and hatred for men every single time something wrong happens is not doing any good. 

 

1. What are proper functioning systems for your word vs mine ? Answer my scenario honestly and you will understand the reason for naming and shaming. 

 

2. No laws are being broken. Its their word vs the word of the perp. And the people being named and shamed are mostly serial offenders. 

 

3. you cannot be anti-feminist and want equal right for both the sexes. 

 

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10 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

n what is that vibe

Coz tanushree dutta has done bold stuff in her movies so means she is fake 

 

It was not an ego clash from her side, she said is not comfortable.......thats it baat khatam waha pe 

If a women is not comfortable thats it n to her support it wasnt conveyed to her before 

 

Getting her blacklisted through MNS

how is that justified??/

 

 

how do u justify this ?

 

https://www.opindia.com/2018/10/who-are-these-goons-jumping-on-tanushrees-car-from-this-2008-viral-video/

 

It was a mob incident gone astray which was instigated by some initial altercation with media. How many times have we seen such incidents in public? Gaadi gaadi takra jaata hain, people itna bawaal machate hain, ki duniya rukh jaati hain. There was no attack from any political party, goons etc. She's making it all up after some disagreement. She didn't like to be seen dancing with a char actor which might have taken down her value. She backed off with some illogical argument. 

Edited by coffee_rules

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49 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

stop beating around the bush to the question you quoted and answer it directly.

IDC if its a man or a woman. 


Since you are having trouble relating to the reality of this scenario for women, i will paint a similar scenario for you which you can relate:

Say I am your boss at work. I am a jovial, fun-loving kinda guy. Very considerate etc. 
We go on a business trip. 

After settling in in our respective rooms, we go for the business meeting the next day. Meeting goes well. On our way back to the hotel, i say ' we should celebrate today's job well done. 7 o'clock, my room. We are going to order a feast !

You say 'excellent idea boss'. 

7 o'clock arrives, you show up and there is already a trolley with 10 dishes and 3 bottles of wine. 

We eat, we do gup-shup. We put on the tv and start taking the piss out of Rahane's batting. 

We drink.

We watch more tv. 

As we watch tv, i come it beside you, put my hand on your crotch and start fondling you over the material. 

 You are shocked, but i have a sly smile on. 

I start unzipping your pants. You get up in an uproar and ask ' KYA HO RAHA HAYE YEH!!!!' 

I look at you directly and say ' SAALE, PICHLE DIN PAYDAA HUA HAI KYA ? Fine. You breathe a word about it, you are fired and i will sue you for defamation'.

 Then i kick you out of my room and cancel you from the rest of the business trip.

  

Deal with this scenario. Tell us what is 'proof' and how should you, the victim, proceed. 

I dunno what the proof is or how investigation works. Will have to read on police investigation protocols for crime, I am not expert at it so cannot say how to solve this or what proof is valid and what is not. You are asking this question in the wrong forum. Infact you should ask this to the police dept and educate all of us on how crime investigation is done. For eg. Rape, robbery, assault, murder - anything can happen in the example you provided. If investigating authority do not know how to investigate, there is a big problem I say which is the first thing everyone should demand. That is why I am more interested in empowering these authorities and make them competent. This includes police, lawyers, courts, workplace harrasment cells, women cell, etc - anyone that is more competent and authentic than twitter.

 

Also now tell me if you can imagine this story in your head so easily, what stops someone from creating a false story just like you have when they know that all they have to do is make a twitter ID and #metoo and the accused will be pronounced guilty. Isnt that wrong as well?

 

P.S sorry forgot to answer the question. I think I would be complaining to the higher authority, HR or harrasment cell whatever is available. And after that will file a police complaint and pursue that. If I dont get a result, than will go on an use media or other source to name and shame and try to find justice. Again, since this is hypothetical, I do not know how I would be feeling at that point of time. So my response might be different, not sure.

Edited by Shunya

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12 minutes ago, Shunya said:

I dunno what the proof is or how investigation works. Will have to read on police investigation protocols for crime, I am not expert at it so cannot say how to solve this or what proof is valid and what is not. You are asking this question in the wrong forum. Infact you should ask this to the police dept and educate all of us on how crime investigation is done. For eg. Rape, robbery, assault, murder - anything can happen in the example you provided. If investigating authority do not know how to investigate, there is a big problem I say which is the first thing everyone should demand. That is why I am more interested in empowering these authorities and make them competent. This includes police, lawyers, courts, workplace harrasment cells, women cell, etc - anyone that is more competent and authentic than twitter.

 

Also now tell me if you can imagine this story in your head so easily, what stops someone from creating a false story just like you have when they know that all they have to do is make a twitter ID and #metoo and the accused will be pronounced guilty. Isnt that wrong as well?

buddy, you are clueless. The fact that you are putting rape/sexual assault in the same group as robberty, assault or murder, is indicative that you know very little of the difference. The latter group of crimes leaves objective evidence behind. 

 

As to the scenaro i've painted that occurs all over the world, THERE IS NO PROOF. It is your word vs mine. 

You will say i touched your crotch,i will say i didn't. You are saying $hit coz you are after my job. Even if i raped you while you got too drunk (also happens), i will say no i didn't, you WANTED me, YOU made the first advance and we just had consentual sex. Now you just wanna exploit it for professional gain. You will say no, i will say yes. 


This is why rape/sexual harassment cases ALWAYS go the route of 'who has more credibility'. Learn these things before you argue. The internet is there to do quality research on almost all issues - there are many case files like these with transcripts online. 

What will happen, is the police will take a report, then ask you and me to both lawyer up. Then my lawyer and your lawyer will battle in court, trying to prove who's character and social reputation is superior. The one with better social reputation will win. 


Because there is no objective proof to these cases, it is FUNDAMENTALLY your word versus mine. 

 

Are there false allegations ? yes. But they are a statistical minority. Most objective research shows that less than 50% of cases are reported worldwide and of them anywhere between 2-10% are false accusations. Meaning that in entirity of numbers, the total % of false accusations are less than 1% to less than 5%. 

 

In cases where its fundamentally your word versus mine and where most of the crime isn't reported, with false accusations being a small minority of the cases, the lesser of two evils is to believe the accuser than to defend the accusee. Automatically it makes one closer to improving the rate of just dispensation. 

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Bollywood has supportecriminals like Salman, Sanjay. So I dont see as any difference. Its short memories and these accused will be just fine. But the hypocrisy is clear, these people in bollywood/tv talk a lot about social issues during film promotions, but when its about them, they do nothing and instead talk about introspection or some internal investigation.  

 

But a comman man have to be more careful, one can misuse the rules and wrongfully assuse another...

 

 

 

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 If people look at the issue from men vs women then there won't be any solution.  There is this perception that if you are a male you should defend all males  and all of them should be given the benefit of doubt. That will only allow this age-old problem to continue. As a man I don't have to defend any perverts, creeps walking around just because he is a "man". Sure there are some odd instances where man could be framed. But those are not norms. Those are exceptions. Given the track record of celebrities around the world who like to abuse the power for sexual favors i don't trust any of these guys. ONly one instance i had suspicion was Michael Jackson case where he unnecessarily had a settlement with a serial extortionist. 

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21 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

buddy, you are clueless. The fact that you are putting rape/sexual assault in the same group as robberty, assault or murder, is indicative that you know very little of the difference. The latter group of crimes leaves objective evidence behind. 

 

As to the scenaro i've painted that occurs all over the world, THERE IS NO PROOF. It is your word vs mine. 

You will say i touched your crotch,i will say i didn't. You are saying $hit coz you are after my job. Even if i raped you while you got too drunk (also happens), i will say no i didn't, you WANTED me, YOU made the first advance and we just had consentual sex. Now you just wanna exploit it for professional gain. You will say no, i will say yes. 


This is why rape/sexual harassment cases ALWAYS go the route of 'who has more credibility'. Learn these things before you argue. The internet is there to do quality research on almost all issues - there are many case files like these with transcripts online. 

What will happen, is the police will take a report, then ask you and me to both lawyer up. Then my lawyer and your lawyer will battle in court, trying to prove who's character and social reputation is superior. The one with better social reputation will win. 


Because there is no objective proof to these cases, it is FUNDAMENTALLY your word versus mine. 

 

Are there false allegations ? yes. But they are a statistical minority. Most objective research shows that less than 50% of cases are reported worldwide and of them anywhere between 2-10% are false accusations. Meaning that in entirity of numbers, the total % of false accusations are less than 1% to less than 5%. 

 

In cases where its fundamentally your word versus mine and where most of the crime isn't reported, with false accusations being a small minority of the cases, the lesser of two evils is to believe the accuser than to defend the accusee. Automatically it makes one closer to improving the rate of just dispensation

Great Thanks for sharing. I read this process for the first time. Dunno how it works though, will have to read further on "Who has more credibility wins" scenario. Can you please share the source of this information? Cos if there is no objective proof in these cases, how were things done so far and what would be the definition of harrasment or sexual harrasment?

 

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50 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

https://www.opindia.com/2018/10/who-are-these-goons-jumping-on-tanushrees-car-from-this-2008-viral-video/

 

It was a mob incident gone astray which was instigated by some initial altercation with media. How many times have we seen such incidents in public? Gaadi gaadi takra jaata hain, people itna bawaal machate hain, ki duniya rukh jaati hain. There was no attack from any political party, goons etc. She's making it all up after some disagreement. She didn't like to be seen dancing with a char actor which might have taken down her value. She backed off with some illogical argument. 

beating her car with car with camera n jumping on is mob incidence

4 actor, bhai konsi dunia men rehta hia .....wo kaam chodh ke kyun jayegi

she leave the money n fame that comes with item number, also item number gets u shows which is more money

 

aur ye jo iska explaination hai fraud hai, thats how u react like a gawar 

 

ye iss cameraman ki reality

 

 

3-3 eye witness aa chuke hia , par tumne kasam kha rkhi ki wo sahi nhin ho sakti kyun wo actress hai, on face blunt hia

Vanita women looks soft so she wud be innocent

 

why cnt both be innocent, image pe mat jao 

Even a prostitute has a right to complain against harrasment , then tanushree is an artist 

 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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4 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Great Thanks for sharing. I read this process for the first time. Dunno how it works though, will have to read further on "Who has more credibility wins" scenario. Can you please share the source of this information? Cos if there is no objective proof in these cases, how were things done so far and what would be the definition of harrasment or sexual harrasment?

 

google is your friend. There are reams and reams of sexual assault court cases on the internet, they ALL go this way. 

I just told you how things are/were done. Your lawyer will go around asking for your buddies and those who think well of you to give good character testimonies, my lawyer will do the same. Then we will go back to high school and find that one girl who was being bullied that we stood up for and she will come and say how you are an angel and she can never see you lie about this stuff. My lawyer will do the same. 

It will come down to who the judge/jury believes has a better story.

 

And in most one-off cases, the defendant wins. 

 

This is why naming and shaming them is so important, particularly for the serial abusers who are in position of power.

 

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10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

google is your friend. There are reams and reams of sexual assault court cases on the internet, they ALL go this way. 

I just told you how things are/were done. Your lawyer will go around asking for your buddies and those who think well of you to give good character testimonies, my lawyer will do the same. Then we will go back to high school and find that one girl who was being bullied that we stood up for and she will come and say how you are an angel and she can never see you lie about this stuff. My lawyer will do the same. 

It will come down to who the judge/jury believes has a better story.

 

And in most one-off cases, the defendant wins. 

 

This is why naming and shaming them is so important, particularly for the serial abusers who are in position of power.

 

Will hold onto that conclusion that naming and shaming is the right way or not for later. Good that we are discussing the main point now. Will read up a bit more aaram se...

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