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Are the PCB selectors trying to copy the Indian team?

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5 minutes ago, zen said:

Most things in Pak are done considering India .... It is no secret that Ind’s biggest fan is Pak :lol:

 

 

Its quite a weird schizophrenic inferiority complex - one that manifests itself in a singular obsession and a big external tamasha of self-proclaimed "superiority".  

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Esp in places like Eng, these guys play a series just before the Ind tour giving the other team practise vs subcon teams .... by the time these team play Ind, they are relatively well oiled .... Now giving Aus the practise :hitler:

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One ignored aspect is both PCB and BCCI selectors for all their flaws  have given opportunities to youngsters in the squad- S.Afridi,Shadab Khan etc and for India P.Shaw,Vihari,Siraj etc 

 

While the Pakistani team management have messed up handling them by over thinking and over planning , the Indian team messed them up by no thinking and planning whatsoever.

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31 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

One ignored aspect is both PCB and BCCI selectors for all their flaws  have given opportunities to youngsters in the squad- S.Afridi,Shadab Khan etc and for India P.Shaw,Vihari,Siraj etc 

 

While the Pakistani team management have messed up handling them by over thinking and over planning , the Indian team messed them up by no thinking and planning whatsoever.

This is not comparable at all. PCB under the Inzi/Mickey regime have selected the best available and given youngsters chances based on psl, domestic. They don't have a lot better than the names mentioned. Prasad and co. are still not selecting the best available. Siraj not played in tests and pant in ODIs is testament to that. 

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2 hours ago, The Dark Horse said:

What is Pak's answer to Manish Pandey, Shardul Thakur, Mohammed Shami :lol:

They don't have one.  

 

In all seriousness, Manish Pandey would be absolutely worshipped by greenbro fans if he was playing for them.  He is a comfortably better cricketer and batsman than Babar 'slow-poke' Azam.  Babar can only dream of scoring a match-winning ODI century in a chase in Australia.  And if Pandey had the opportunity to fill his boots against the likes of Zim, WI etc his statistics would be way better than Babar's.  Manish would make a very competent test batsman as well.  Its a different story that he doesn't make the list of top 8 LOI batsmen in India.  He's still better than the best that greenbros can hope for.  

 

Shami?  A fit Shami is a world-class bowler in tests and ODIs.  Pakistan can only dream of having a bowler like that who can strike with both old and new ball, even in conditions that don't favor pace.  

 

And for all the ridicule that Shardul Thakur gets from Indian fans, ask yourself this - Is Mohammed '120k Ganguly pace' Abbas really a better bowler than him?  

Edited by sandeep

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30 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This is not comparable at all. PCB under the Inzi/Mickey regime have selected the best available and given youngsters chances based on psl, domestic. They don't have a lot better than the names mentioned. Prasad and co. are still not selecting the best available. Siraj not played in tests and pant in ODIs is testament to that. 

Mickey Arthur is an absolute idiot when it comes to team selection, and pre-game strategy and in-game tactics.  He is the person most responsible for Pakistan's humiliating home test series defeating against the hapless Sri Lankans.  DumbFat insisted on picking 3 'pace' bowlers and only 1 spinner in UAE, on tracks where Sri Lanka's 3rd or 4th spin option ended up taking a bagful of wickets and winning a test match.  And guess what?  Arthur doubled down on the same mistake for the crucial next test, and the team lost.  Again. 

 

Sure, its equally idiotic for a captain to let an ignorant coach who doesn't understand or respect spin bowling, and miserably failed to take the conditions into account.  But if you are expecting Sarfraz to be either smart, or a leader who steps up, then you are going to be disappointed on both fronts.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Mickey Arthur is an absolute idiot when it comes to team selection, and pre-game strategy and in-game tactics.  He is the person most responsible for Pakistan's humiliating home test series defeating against the hapless Sri Lankans.  DumbFat insisted on picking 3 'pace' bowlers and only 1 spinner in UAE, on tracks where Sri Lanka's 3rd or 4th spin option ended up taking a bagful of wickets and winning a test match.  And guess what?  Arthur doubled down on the same mistake for the crucial next test, and the team lost.  Again. 

 

Sure, its equally idiotic for a captain to let an ignorant coach who doesn't understand or respect spin bowling, and miserably failed to take the conditions into account.  But if you are expecting Sarfraz to be either smart, or a leader who steps up, then you are going to be disappointed on both fronts.  

 

 

Granted, Mickey is not the best tactically when it comes to Asian conditions and that SL series was lost , you could argue, because they lacked a 2nd spinner. But atleast selections wise, which other test series had poorly selected squads in the last 2.5 years?  They played 2 spinners for this match and still couldn't win after winning the toss. 

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1 hour ago, Franco Vazquez said:

The only reason he is a captain because he is from Karachi and a lot of Pak journos are based in Karachi and pressurize PCB by acting as if Karachi is neglected 

O rly?  

 

Who in your opinion should be captaining Pakistan test team instead?  Let's run down the list of candidates - 

 

Mohammed 'selfish-chucker-cant-bat-except-against-minnows' Hafeez?   Nope

Imam 'My uncle believes in my potential' Ul-Haq?  Naah, too young and inexperienced

Azhar 'my team, mgmt and entire fan base have zero faith in my batting' Ali?  Been there, done that.

Babar 'overrated-barely-deserves-test-slot' Azam?  Nope

Haris 'knee-job' Sohail?  Not really

Asad 'wants to hide at #6 and be the new misbah' Shafiq? Nope again

Shoaib 'knows he can't hack it in test cricket' Malik?  Too late, retired.

Mohammed 'Qaidi #5-too-old-and-not-test-calibre' Amir?

Yasir 'dont-ban-me-i-only-took-my-wife's-BP-meds-and-my-googly-is-the-one-that-doesn't-spin' Shah?  Maybe.

 

I'm going to stop right there, because let's face it.  Its really slim pickings when it comes to legit candidates for greenbro captaincy.  

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4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Granted, Mickey is not the best tactically when it comes to Asian conditions and that SL series was lost , you could argue, because they lacked a 2nd spinner. But atleast selections wise, which other test series had poorly selected squads in the last 2.5 years?  

Arthur is not part of the solution for Pakistan, he's part of the problem.  He's playing politics and has doubled down on Sarfraz's 'leadership', because he knows he retains control over that puppet captain.  This is a coach who is advocating to make Fakhar Zaman a test batsman, wanted to do the same with Sharjeel.  Has failed to get the most out of the limited resources that the greenbros have - A better coach would have found a way to get contributions out of the likes of Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal etc, especially for a batting poor team like Pakistan.  But he chose to feed his own ego and the legend of Mickey Arthur the tough guy coach, ahead of what the needs of the team he's coaching.  

 

There's a reason Arthur was fired from his previous jobs.  He's simply not a very good coach.  Just because he's better than the likes of Javed 'balcony dancer' Miandad, or Waqar 'I'd rather be in Australia' Younis, doesn't make him a good coach.  

 

Quote

They played 2 spinners for this match and still couldn't win after winning the toss. 

Because they went for a dead track since they were afraid of Lyon.  There was turn on this track, but if the notoriously collapse-prone Aussies manage to bat out an entire day 5 in Asia, you know that the track was dead.  Think back to the Ranchi test in India as well - Non-asian teams have improved enough to bat time on dead slow tracks.  Its not 20 years ago anymore.  

 

 

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56 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Arthur is not part of the solution for Pakistan, he's part of the problem.  He's playing politics and has doubled down on Sarfraz's 'leadership', because he knows he retains control over that puppet captain.  This is a coach who is advocating to make Fakhar Zaman a test batsman, wanted to do the same with Sharjeel.  Has failed to get the most out of the limited resources that the greenbros have - A better coach would have found a way to get contributions out of the likes of Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal etc, especially for a batting poor team like Pakistan.  But he chose to feed his own ego and the legend of Mickey Arthur the tough guy coach, ahead of what the needs of the team he's coaching.  

 

There's a reason Arthur was fired from his previous jobs.  He's simply not a very good coach.  Just because he's better than the likes of Javed 'balcony dancer' Miandad, or Waqar 'I'd rather be in Australia' Younis, doesn't make him a good coach.  

 

Because they went for a dead track since they were afraid of Lyon.  There was turn on this track, but if the notoriously collapse-prone Aussies manage to bat out an entire day 5 in Asia, you know that the track was dead.  Think back to the Ranchi test in India as well - Non-asian teams have improved enough to bat time on dead slow tracks.  Its not 20 years ago anymore.  

 

 

I think you are being very unfair to Mickey Arthur here. Mickey has his faults - no doubt about it. He's authoritarian and it's usually his way or the highway and that's why he was never going to work in the Australian setup . Not that a team like Australia need him since they have an extremely good domestic structure and coaches are the best you could find in the world anyway. But Mickey was extremely important in the run to SA being a no.1 test side as the nucleus of the side starred out under him. He backed youngsters like Steyn and morkel with genuine pace over Pollock and nel and I think was instrumental in backing track likes of AB,Amla as well. SA were in tatters by the time Ray jennings had left and were a middle of the lack team in both formats. Mickey/Smith had a great run for atleast two years when they won test series in England and Australia. They had a bad year in 2009 and let's go back to that fateful England tour of SA 2009/10. Mickey took that tough decision to drop a non performing Ntini for two tests and, voila, Gerald majola of CSA immediately came out and talked about moving on from Mickey since he had a bad year. In reality he had dared drop a black player at a time SA as a nation were trying to bring about aggressive 'transformation' and he was punished. Nothing more nothing less. 

 

Mickey could not have improved Australia in any way imo. They already have the best structures in place to identify and develop the best talents available and Mickey was not really an improvement. Anyway OZ only ever prefer OZ coaches who are from their own sporting culture. 

 

 

Now on to Pakistan, Mickey and inzi have ,as far as possible considering lobbies, tried to get rid of TTF's and given debuts to quite a few youngsters. Shadab, Hasan, Shaheen, Abbas ,Sami, fakhar ,Imam,Faheem,usman have all been given chances under him but there are some problems with Pakistan cricket which even they can't do anything about. Qea is a rubbish domestic tourney and worst among ind,Pak,England,SA,Oz,NZ. Players find it very difficult to bridge the gap and maintain consistency in international cricket. So you saw Sami Aslam start off well only to see his limitations on subsequent tours. Shadab and Hasan look jaded and possibly have niggles, shinwari suffered stress fractures and making a comeback. Fakhar has been worked out somewhat and he needs to work on improving his scoring areas. Sharjeel got caught fixing. Btw Mickey does not rate hafeez or wahab(current) or Junaid but when the likes of Aamir ,Hasan bowl rubbish, he is forced to bring back Junaid who performs. When Sami fails, he has to bring back hafeez ( recent double hundred in qea) on merit who again performed in this test. When the youngsters being selected are not able o bridge the gap and perform consistently and are either out of form, injured or fixing what is Arthur suppose d to do?  No WK/bat better than Sarfraz either for all the focus on Sarfraz's performances. 

 

Mickey 's tactics have also been effective. You play your 3 best quicks and your best spinner no matter what condition. Remember he won a series in Pakistan with this philosophy while coaching SA and also drew a series in India so it's not that far fetched . Pakistan just don't have quality fast bowlers who are consistent across two test series. Aamir looks finished and Hasan hasn't found his feet yet. Shaheen hasn't even played one full season if domestic I think. Abbas has performed and mickey has stuck with him. The only other choice was between wahab and Junaid and he went for wahab for his pace and reverse. Arguably the only poor decision has been his constant ignoring of Zafar gohar. For this series, they even selected the best offspinner available in Pakistan keeping in mind the number of left hand batsmen played and he got a sixfer on debut. 

 

Long rant but  just wanted to give some background.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I think you are being very unfair to Mickey Arthur here. Mickey has his faults - no doubt about it. He's authoritarian and it's usually his way or the highway and that's why he was never going to work in the Australian setup . Not that a team like Australia need him since they have an extremely good domestic structure and coaches are the best you could find in the world anyway. But Mickey was extremely important in the run to SA being a no.1 test side as the nucleus of the side starred out under him. He backed youngsters like Steyn and morkel with genuine pace over Pollock and nel and I think was instrumental in backing track likes of AB,Amla as well. SA were in tatters by the time Ray jennings had left and were a middle of the lack team in both formats. Mickey/Smith had a great run for atleast two years when they won test series in England and Australia. They had a bad year in 2009 and let's go back to that fateful England tour of SA 2009/10. Mickey took that tough decision to drop a non performing Ntini for two tests and, voila, Gerald majola of CSA immediately came out and talked about moving on from Mickey since he had a bad year. In reality he had dared drop a black player at a time SA as a nation were trying to bring about aggressive 'transformation' and he was punished. Nothing more nothing less. 

 

Mickey could not have improved Australia in any way imo. They already have the best structures in place to identify and develop the best talents available and Mickey was not really an improvement. Anyway OZ only ever prefer OZ coaches who are from their own sporting culture. 

 

 

Now on to Pakistan, Mickey and inzi have ,as far as possible considering lobbies, tried to get rid of TTF's and given debuts to quite a few youngsters. Shadab, Hasan, Shaheen, Abbas ,Sami, fakhar ,Imam,Faheem,usman have all been given chances under him but there are some problems with Pakistan cricket which even they can't do anything about. Qea is a rubbish domestic tourney and worst among ind,Pak,England,SA,Oz,NZ. Players find it very difficult to bridge the gap and maintain consistency in international cricket. So you saw Sami Aslam start off well only to see his limitations on subsequent tours. Shadab and Hasan look jaded and possibly have niggles, shinwari suffered stress fractures and making a comeback. Fakhar has been worked out somewhat and he needs to work on improving his scoring areas. Sharjeel got caught fixing. Btw Mickey does not rate hafeez or wahab(current) or Junaid but when the likes of Aamir ,Hasan bowl rubbish, he is forced to bring back Junaid who performs. When Sami fails, he has to bring back hafeez ( recent double hundred in qea) on merit who again performed in this test. When the youngsters being selected are not able o bridge the gap and perform consistently and are either out of form, injured or fixing what is Arthur suppose d to do?  No WK/bat better than Sarfraz either for all the focus on Sarfraz's performances. 

 

Mickey 's tactics have also been effective. You play your 3 best quicks and your best spinner no matter what condition. Remember he won a series in Pakistan with this philosophy while coaching SA and also drew a series in India so it's not that far fetched . Pakistan just don't have quality fast bowlers who are consistent across two test series. Aamir looks finished and Hasan hasn't found his feet yet. Shaheen hasn't even played one full season if domestic I think. Abbas has performed and mickey has stuck with him. The only other choice was between wahab and Junaid and he went for wahab for his pace and reverse. Arguably the only poor decision has been his constant ignoring of Zafar gohar. For this series, they even selected the best offspinner available in Pakistan keeping in mind the number of left hand batsmen played and he got a sixfer on debut. 

 

Long rant but  just wanted to give some background.

 

 

You've clearly drank the kool-aid when it comes from Arthur apologists.   None of what you said addresses the fact that Arthur lost Pakistan a home test series against 8th ranked SL.  And he has made Pakistan's batting problems worse instead of improving them.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

O rly?  

 

Who in your opinion should be captaining Pakistan test team instead?  Let's run down the list of candidates - 

 

Mohammed 'selfish-chucker-cant-bat-except-against-minnows' Hafeez?   Nope

Imam 'My uncle believes in my potential' Ul-Haq?  Naah, too young and inexperienced

Azhar 'my team, mgmt and entire fan base have zero faith in my batting' Ali?  Been there, done that.

Babar 'overrated-barely-deserves-test-slot' Azam?  Nope

Haris 'knee-job' Sohail?  Not really

Asad 'wants to hide at #6 and be the new misbah' Shafiq? Nope again

Shoaib 'knows he can't hack it in test cricket' Malik?  Too late, retired.

Mohammed 'Qaidi #5-too-old-and-not-test-calibre' Amir?

Yasir 'dont-ban-me-i-only-took-my-wife's-BP-meds-and-my-googly-is-the-one-that-doesn't-spin' Shah?  Maybe.

 

I'm going to stop right there, because let's face it.  Its really slim pickings when it comes to legit candidates for greenbro captaincy.  

Tbh If you look at Sarfraz's record. It hasn't been really good for him. Yet to win a series and lost a series against SL and drew match against the weakest Australian team of all time in their fortress. Survived a scare against Ireland. The only reason he still captains is that he won a match against England otherwise he would have been dumped out. Pakistan can call in Kamran Akmal and make him captain and have someone else keep the wickets like Rizwan or someone from domestic. Kamran Akmal already stopped keeping in domestics and he has been in form of his life for last few years in domestic. Sarfraz batting and keeping both have been poor in that match and missed some easy reviews and then wasted them on stupid decisions. He carries Karachi quota in the team and thats why he has not been dropped yet otherwise journos from Karachi will go on strike and will start moaning about how PCB neglects Karachi.

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42 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You've clearly drank the kool-aid when it comes from Arthur apologists.   None of what you said addresses the fact that Arthur lost Pakistan a home test series against 8th ranked SL.  And he has made Pakistan's batting problems worse instead of improving them.  

 

 

Im sorry but my point was that Pakistan don't have the talent available to do any better. Their batting problems are worse after yk, Misbah retirement. Nothing else.

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