With India's new affluence comes the divorce generation

[Lurker]

another aspect. its not only about adjusting. nowadays both the spouses work and quite often they do become a victim of ego related issues. they may still love each other but wait for the other to make a move....many times it gets too late and an inevitable divorce follows. i think this must be traumatic.

Work often means bringing it home. I absolutely hate that but it is frankly the truth. The stress that work brings can often screw your marriage. Bear in mind today's era is not 1985 where a man picked a job and was set for life. In 2008 there is hire-and-fire, and so if you are not good you are out on your a$$. This obviously brings stress. Now multiply that stress times 2 right under one ceiling and you get the picture.

[kumble_rocks]

I agree with beetle here . How many men here would be willing to live in girl's parent's house after marriage . Answer would be ZILCH.... Women have to make adjustments to much higher degree in India simply because they have to move out of their house. The system is not fair.

[beetle]

>>>>That is not fair at all Beetle. I seriously don't know about NRI guys. I am married to a fauji and have hardly met an NRI.It wasn't a sarcastic statement. Most NRI were Indians at one time. Most of us have come through the ladder, living as single bachelor men in Delhi, Mumbai, Patna wherever and a lot of us learnt cooking the hard way. I am sure you have seen many a cooking threads right here with inputs from guys. And in my personal experience the more girls I meet at work, the less becomes my confidence in their culinary skills. Again to use an example, how many girls today know how to make all those dozen kind of pickles(achaar) that your or mine Mom made with their eyes closed? Yes agree most guys do. But do they continue it after they get married. I am willing to accept the "you earn your half" argument if the guys marry a full time career woman...and split the work at home into half. That would be so fair. Butit doesn't happen most of the times.....atleast in India. A guy who does all the hard work at home before marriage ,often gets married to afull time working woman like himself but now he expectsher to do atleast most of thehouse work. suddenly he can't put clothesin the washing machine,can't wash dishes and while he was happy cooking one dish for himself ,he expect the whole dal sabzi roti chawaal raitasalad deal..... I work only a few hours so I have no problem doing most of the house work . Although I do expect my hubby to get thevehicles repaired as I get overcharged most of the times.....:((.Rest all I am quite happy to do. But I do expect hubby to cook me something niceoncein a while. But would it be fair if I wasworking the same hrs as him? Point being just as guys have improved on their skills similarly girls skills have come down. You may want to disagree but thats the way it is. That's a big generalisation....although quite right in my case:((.My hubby wouldmake a much better homemaker in every sense of the word.

[Guest HariSampath]

^....and then the utmost cruelty...he needs to eat what you cook :D

[Lurker]

How many men here would be willing to live in girl's parent's house after marriage . Answer would be ZILCH.

Its not as cut and dry KR. Men wouldnt like to live at in-laws simply because of the stigma attached to it. Heck tell me how many girls would want their "proud" husband to move in at their place and become a joke for entire mohalla? This is true not only in India but pretty much around the world where marrying for wealth is frowned upon. At the same time it is also true that in many cases post-marriage the couple interact more with girls family than guys family. Of course this is a generalisation and hence would have its own share of critics.

[beetle]

>>>>You need to meet better men in your life :P My hubby would be the perfect man on earth ifonly he could stop commenting on my cooking. >>>There lies your problem. You are being overly defensive about women. Reading your post I get the feeling that females are good while males are all jalaads. Nah...In fact it is quite the opposite. I think allhumans are equally bad or good. Women are justnot given enough opportunities to be as bad .But whenever they are given the opportunity,they have shown to be equally corrupt,cruel and incompetant. Infact,in joint families,it is the women of the family who are responsible for most domestic abuse. Or at least they are equally responsible. Only in extremely male dominated societies do you see men as the primary abusers. The discussion here is about the breaking up of marriages...and the most often cause for it the change in the status of the bahu. Good or bad...she is not willing to make all the adjustments. And some of my views on the saas bahu topic are also coloured by my own early experiences. Thankfully I don't have to live in a joint family ...and also I do not have a husband who thinks mom is always right(nor does he feel wife is always right).I have a dominating control freak MIL. Not a bad person...but extremely control freak. I also have only one life to live and am not willing to live being controlled just to keep her happy:P Seriously what self-respecting man would want a wife to look after him?? And how exactly would the wife look after him? By putting his trousers, pants, shoes as he comes out of the shower? Show me the man(and the wife) and I will show you two losers of this era. yeh lo...aapne to poore desh ko loser bana diya....:D >>>> My Mom raised 3 kids in a 11 ghar house and had absolutely no help. And she was a History Professor. Give me a girl of today who can match that and then we will talk :hatsoff::hatsoff: But don't you feel she shouldn't have had to do it all alone. Don't you think she had to do it all by herself? I appreciate such women ...but most women are not superwomen. I am one of those feeble ones who can't do it all and need help.

[fineleg]

If Indian marriage today stands at cross-roads it is basically because both men and women have become more selfish and unashamed to admit it. It will only get worse.

Correction: They have always been selfish. Selfishness is an inherent quality of human beings (with varying degrees depending on individuals). Just that in earlier timez, one was probably made to be more "malleable and ductile" by parental training, society and lack of financial independence. Today, thats all moot point, and there is financial independence, and wherewithal. So, there is no reason for people to hide selfishness, EXCEPT when they really like someone and want to do something for someone out of love for them. Previously, things were done out of duty or love (if there was no love, it was done out of duty). IMO - its better to tell someone if you dont really love them, rather than mask it dutifully and live a false life.

[beetle]

>>>One evening two years ago, as her husband poured a drink, she told him they should not waste their money on alcohol. He got up, put on a T-shirt, pulled money from a drawer and made for the door. "I said, 'If you want to go, go. But don't come back,' " Chitra recalled. "And I regret my words, because he never did. He hugged and kissed me, he kissed my daughter, and he never came back." That is so sad... I do feel bad for men though because most often they do not have the option of staying away from the grind.Women can choose to stay at home or go out and be working women(at least in India) ....men very rarely have that choice.I guess women will also soon lose that option. Unfortunately they end up doing double duty. Grind at home andaway from home.

[coffee_rules]

Yes agree most guys do. But do they continue it after they get married. I am willing to accept the "you earn your half" argument if the guys marry a full time carrier woman...and split the work at home into half. That would be so fair.

Will that be a tiffin or lunch one? Jokes apart, me missus work full time. Work at home is shared. When I cook, she should clean. When she cooks, I clean apart from commenting on the taste, salvage it and make it good to my taste. I bathe the kids, she works on their homework, learning etc. Even with all these post-nup agreements, our house is still a kurkshetra. Bickering over who does more work, who gets to sit around their lazy behinds. have to share the work at home, but not the outside-the-home work. That has to be the guys job right?

Butit doesn't happen most of the times.....atleast in India. A guy who does all the hard work at home before marriage ,often gets married to afull time working woman like himself but now he expectsher to do atleast most of thehouse work. suddenly he can't put clothesin the washing machine,can't wash dishes and while he was happy cooking one dish for himself ,he expect the whole dal sabzi roti chawaal raitasalad deal.....

A huge generalization. I have seen my cousins, brother do a lot of work at home. More than my father got to do. I think it is changing for the better every generation. In urban India, women needn't cry about having to make a lot of adjustments. But women still do (cry).

[beetle]

Career woman....:P Coffee ...you are doing good. You were brought up well:P

[Lurker]

The discussion here is about the breaking up of marriages...and the most often cause for it the change in the status of the bahu. Good or bad...she is not willing to make all the adjustments.

I personally dont think it is simply the bahu's fault. As I have mentioned earlier, failure of a marriage is no different than failure of a relationship. Hubby may say that he had wifey seperated because of family issues but the point obviously is that the hubby-wifey issue was there, it is just that he is not smart enough to realize it.

And some of my views on the saas bahu topic are also coloured by my own early experiences. Thankfully I don't have to live in a joint family ...and also I do not have a husband who thinks mom is always right(nor does he feel wife is always right).I have a dominating control freak MIL. Not a bad person...but extremely control freak. I also have only one life to live and am not willing to live being controlled just to keep her happy:P

Fair enough. We are all shaped by our personal experiences. I can certainly see your issue with MIL and though I would loath myself for trying to extract mileage out of this I would say that generally bahus get the rough end of the stick from saas and nanads. Generally, not always of course, sasurji and devarji are alright. They may not be very open ke bahu bahar jaaye kaam kare etc but they wont be as nosey as well. MIL's are a different breed. Right from daal mein kitna namak to kheer mein cheeni kab daalni hai they will try to do it their own way!

But don't you feel she shouldn't have had to do it all alone. Don't you think she had to do it all by herself?

I do. All the time. Even today when my Mom is sick I will see her get off the bed and make breakfast for Dad because my Dad can't do it. Oddly enough my Mom-Dad have a lovely relationship which makes me wonder as to why my Mom pampered him to such a level. But yes I say that all the time and I have seen increasingly now my Dad try to make salads, chai, omlettes etc. Even the older generation is changing Beetle. Parents are accepting inter-caste marriage, childrens moving away, grandkids sitting on internet and not coming to them every night to listen to stories. Things have changed very fast in a decade or two. xxx

[fineleg]

I do. All the time. Even today when my Mom is sick I will see her get off the bed and make breakfast for Dad because my Dad can't do it. Oddly enough my Mom-Dad have a lovely relationship which makes me wonder as to why my Mom pampered him to such a level. xxx

Yep, I have seen as such. A lot of Moms have pampered Dads a lot. But they have good relationships, since it seems like thats "their way of life"... But it does make people too dependent on others.

[Desi Cartman]

I grew up in a nuclear family and have an elder sister and a brother. My mom showed me how to cook when I was in year 9 and I washed clothes (in the washing machine though :giggle:) when I was in the 8th grade. It wasn’t that my mom made me to do it but she cared to show me how these things are done. Its been so helpful all my life especially when it came to impressing chicks (I was a good marriage material .. I could cook !) :two_thumbs_up: I think in this discussion we are confusing the educated & a guy with morals with someone from a village or as they say a traditional businessman ! I agree that men these days do a lot of work and the females don’t have to be Haan ji all the time but still if people here think that women in India are not oppressed then they are dreaming. Have a look at any daily news paper and you would find few dowry death reports everyday. I have heard of educated men beating up their wives and remember most of the cases never get reported.

[fineleg]

DD, Such thingz are on the decline if there is even some basic education for girlz. Girlz are educated and know how to be independent, those two traitz (plus a reasonably confident upbringing) means that they will not take B.S. from anyone.

[Ram]

I dont know why people push panic buttons when the divorce rates get high. I would rather a couple get themselves divorced, than having a miserable married life. Low divorce rates in India != Happy couples and thriving family.

[fineleg]

I dont know why people push panic buttons when the divorce rates get high. I would rather a couple get themselves divorced, than having a miserable married life. Low divorce rates in India != Happy couples and thriving family.

What you are saying is true. However, Are panic buttonz being pushed in ICF? I hope not.

[Ram]

What you are saying is true. However, Are panic buttonz being pushed in ICF? I hope not.

No, when people see the rising rates of divorce in India, they usually go " Its all a influence of the West". Nothing could be farther from the truth. Apart from a few exceptional circumstances, divorce generally signifies some courageous people, willing to take some big decisions in life, not being bothered about society. If I were a father of a girl who is married and has a very unhappy married life ( due to a variety of reasons like compatibility issues, spouse dis-loyalty, in-laws mistreatment) I would rather she take divorce and free herself from the hell, rather than implore her to continue, coz of the fear of being ostracized in the society. There is lots of life outside marriage, people mostly fail to realize that. And I say this for BOTH men and women. In divorce, the distressed party is always assumed to the lady, by default. It need not be the case always. More power to women equality and awareness. Its important for all women to have their own careers, so that they know they can have life outside marriage, if required. Most times, because the lady just throws away everything and becomes part of the in-laws house, the in-laws take her for granted, knowing that if she leaves, she will have nothing to do. Career oriented, independent women are changing all that. And as I said, I would warmly applaud a couple that decided to part ways with dignity, rather than just put up with each other for society's sake. If you dont like someone, there is no harm severing ties, be it for the man or women.

[fineleg]

No, when people see the rising rates of divorce in India, they usually go " Its all a influence of the West". Nothing could be farther from the truth. Apart from a few exceptional circumstances, divorce generally signifies some courageous people, willing to take some big decisions in life, not being bothered about society. If I were a father of a girl who is married and has a very unhappy married life ( due to a variety of reasons like compatibility issues, spouse dis-loyalty, in-laws mistreatment) I would rather she take divorce and free herself from the hell, rather than implore her to continue, coz of the fear of being ostracized in the society. There is lots of life outside marriage, people mostly fail to realize that. And I say this for BOTH men and women. In divorce, the distressed party is always assumed to the lady, by default. It need not be the case always. More power to women equality and awareness. Its important for all women to have their own careers, so that they know they can have life outside marriage, if required. Most times, because the lady just throws away everything and becomes part of the in-laws house, the in-laws take her for granted, knowing that if she leaves, she will have nothing to do. Career oriented, independent women are changing all that. And as I said, I would warmly applaud a couple that decided to part ways with dignity, rather than just put up with each other for society's sake. If you dont like someone, there is no harm severing ties, be it for the man or women.

Correct.

[Desi Cartman]

DD, Such thingz are on the decline if there is even some basic education for girlz. Girlz are educated and know how to be independent, those two traitz (plus a reasonably confident upbringing) means that they will not take B.S. from anyone.

yep , but still a looooooong way to go As for abuse in the so called educated families. I know of one where the father is a very senior person in banking industry , brother a Doc , the victim herself is a professional and works full time . So here is the story: One day the father goes to visit his daughter and was able to hear her cry from outside the door. He gets in sees that his jamai is beating her up with his belt just because their son was crying and she was too busy cooking for her husband. Flash Back : The girl tells her mother that she has been getting abused for years and the mother in law is a total bytch. The husband often beats her up and he can hit hard as he used to be a body builder. The abuse she gets is just not physical , its verbal abuse daily and once in a while its physical. Action : Dad brings her home , brother gets angry and loses temper and rips his shirt apart (the mother is very proud of her sons actions .. Its considered height of his anger). The family sits together with the jamai and requests him never to do this again . He aggress and they send her home because the girl respects her husband , doesn’t want to be divorced as it will be shameful for the family and of course cause she loves her son. I am sure incidents\cases like this happen often in every part of India. These cases do not get reported even if the victim is from a well off and an educated family. I don’t know in cases like the one I mentioned above: who has to adjust more and who is stressed because of work.

[Ram]

Jokes apart, me missus work full time. Work at home is shared. When I cook, she should clean. When she cooks, I clean apart from commenting on the taste, salvage it and make it good to my taste. I bathe the kids, she works on their homework, learning etc. Even with all these post-nup agreements, our house is still a kurkshetra. Bickering over who does more work, who gets to sit around their lazy behinds. have to share the work at home, but not the outside-the-home work. That has to be the guys job right?

Wow, awesome there Coffee. Good to see you sharing some work-load. Its just shocking to see what a ridiculously male-dominated society India is. Are women born to do house-hold work ? Is it like their written fate or something ? Most men talk the greatness of equality/self-respect in the outside world, but when it comes to their own household, how many follow it ? Equality not only means nodding your head in agreement when someone is giving sermons on it on T.V, but also actually implementing it in the house. And the fundamental fact is, it is just basic courtesy, as a human, to share the work-load, equally, amongst all the family members of the house, whether it be amongst men, or women. Dont any of us complain when we are given a disproportionate load of the work at our jobs ? So, why the double standards at home. But honestly, half the blame should go on the ladies themselves. Its like they are resigned to their fate as the house work-horse. Why cant they rebel ? After all, they are speaking for something that is just/right, no harm in doing in that. If the Husband/in-laws refuse to give in to her valid demands, then she has to search for other avenues to solve the problem.After all, everyone will have their own passions, habits/likes on which they would like to spend time on. Instead, most women in India are still condemned to a life of work+kids+household work. Sad state of affairs.