Weird but Indian team looks more efficient without Kohli and Dhoni

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 I have never seen you have a consistent view point on anything on this forum except maybe about Hardik Pandya :) ironically something he lacks.

Have you decided yet whether you think Krunal is just an "IPL star" or a much needed "breath of fresh air" for the national team? 

 

Take a few years and let me know.

[speedheat]

Want to see similar kind of peformace against tougher teams without kohli though.

But at the moment team Is gelling well without them.

[Global.Baba]

Just now, sandeep said:

Have you decided yet whether you think Krunal is just an "IPL star" or a much needed "breath of fresh air" for the national team? 

 

Take a few years and let me know.

Krunal played a good knock but still has a long way to go. Still an IPL star who has not come through the proper system.How can you not see the difference in the 2 statements

 

Its futile arguing with you because you just seem to play devils advocate most times and hardly have a consistent view point. So not interested. Move on

 

 

[sandeep]

33 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

this thread is not about batting approach.

Its about captaincy.  Which controls the batting approach of the team.  

 

Tbf Rohit is slightly better at rotating bowlers, but that's not saying much.  Because its not difficult to out-do Virat in this aspect.  

 

The biggest challenge for Captaining the Indian team is getting the most out of the massive talent pool that we have.  And that demands that the team adopt best-in-class tactics suited to their skills and strengths.  To Virat's credit, he has committed to 5 bowlers in test cricket quite often, something that has made the test team better.  But he has also simultaneously played politics and 'fantasy cricket' with test batting lineups.  

 

On the LOI front, its very low-hanging fruit for this team to start improving their team totals when batting first.  But the top order consistently choose to play safe and selfish rather than attack.  Leaving it to #5 and lower to take risks from their 1st ball in.  They keep hogging the max number of deliveries, and take home the maximum glory and endorsements.  Who cares if the tactics don't lead to the team being the best it could be.  

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Krunal played a good knock but still has a long way to go. Still an IPL star who has not come through the proper system.How can you not see the difference in the 2 statements

 

Its futile arguing with you because you just seem to play devils advocate most times and hardly have a consistent view point. So not interested. Move on

 

 

You can keep taking false pot-shots at me, not going to bother me.  Or make me slink away and change my forum id, for that matter.  

 

btw, the context to that Krunal remark -  you attacked me in the match thread when I expressed a desire to see Krunal bat in the game with the outcome still in doubt, and once the game was done, you promptly opened a thread touting his batting as a "breath of fresh air".  Talk about inconsistent view-points - in gujju that is called g@and vagar no loto.   A Lota without an ass, that keeps swaying this way and that.  

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by sandeep

[Global.Baba]

Just now, sandeep said:

You can keep taking false pot-shots at me, not going to bother me.  Or make me slink away and change my forum id, for that matter.  

 

 

Usually personal attack on someone is reaching a low point but attacking someone’s online persona now that is plunging new depths. 

 

Keep away now. Shoo

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Krunal played a good knock but still has a long way to go. Still an IPL star who has not come through the proper system.How can you not see the difference in the 2 statements

 

Its futile arguing with you because you just seem to play devils advocate most times and hardly have a consistent view point. So not interested. Move on

 

 

How did Krunal not come through the proper system? You can say the same even for Bumrah who became star through IPL.  Krunal played for Baroda and only after that he was picked.  Same for Bumrah.  There are not many players who did not come through the system.  Kamran Khan picked by RR was one such player. Most others have played some level of cricket for their states either U19, U22, Ranji or List A for the state.

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

How did Krunal not come through the proper system? You can say the same even for Bumrah who became star through IPL.  Krunal played for Baroda and only after that he was picked.  Same for Bumrah.  There are not many players who did not come through the system.  Kamran Khan picked by RR was one such player. Most others have played some level of cricket for their states either U19, U22, Ranji or List A for the state.

Yes Bumrah and Hardik did not come through the whole u-19, toiling in domestics route. There are some like Umesh too who probably didn’t play much of junior cricket.

 

Bumrah is a rare success story. Pandya is still a work in progress and Umesh too has payed some dues in domestics I believe.

 

I personally like players who came through a proper channel. I am not writing of Krunal. I like what I see but the fact is he has jumped ahead of a lot of others due to IPL exploits.

[Ankit_sharma03]

A. opp has played poor cricket

b. We basically have a lot more good t20 players now- 

During dhoni's time in 2016 the minute we added bumrah n hardilk it started looking a much better side 

 

Now if we remove Manish n shikhar to an add kohli n hardik.....even a better side 

 

c. Rohit definately is a better captain then kohli n IPL has proved it 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Usually personal attack on someone is reaching a low point but attacking someone’s online persona now that is plunging new depths. 

 

Keep away now. Shoo

"attacking"?  lmao.  After you repeatedly take potshots at me?  Lol.  Typical Frogumen. 

[Global.Baba]

Just now, sandeep said:

"attacking"?  lmao.  After you repeatedly take potshots at me?  Lol.  Typical Frogumen. 

Saying that you have nothing to offer in terms of a debate is not a potshot. It’s called constructive criticism. Anyway you are coming around with atleast your love for the Pandya bros. Now I may or may not be a huge fan of their work, atleast it’s a start. We can go on in loop anyways your best bet is to go to another thread and give an empty opinion lol. Your work is done here.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

Yes Bumrah and Hardik did not come through the whole u-19, toiling in domestics route. There are some like Umesh too who probably didn’t play much of junior cricket.

 

Bumrah is a rare success story. Pandya is still a work in progress and Umesh too has payed some dues in domestics I believe.

 

I personally like players who came through a proper channel. I am not writing of Krunal. I like what I see but the fact is he has jumped ahead of a lot of others due to IPL exploits.

you dont know anything if you think Bumrah and Hardik didnt play U19 cricket.  Both played U19 cricket for their respective states.  Bumrah made it to Gujarat side at the age of 19 and played Syed Mushtaq Ali trophy that Gujarat won in 2012 if I remember correctly.  He was 19 then, graduating to state team from Gujarat U19.  Now, not every U19 player can play India U19 because of set age qualification date for U19 WC.  Now we are seeing more U19 tours and tournaments, so, more players are making it to India U19 and also matches are televised as well which was not the case back then. Bumrah could have played U19 WC 2012 played in Aus but he probably had surpassed the age qualification date.  Same for Hardik.  Both are of same age group and Hardik played U19 for Baroda.  At U19, he used to be a leg spinner but then started bowling pace at the requirement of the team.

[rkt.india]

Regarding Krunal, He averaes 35 with the bat in List A cricket and has also picked up 47 wickets in 43 games.  In T20 cricket, he has an SR of 148.  I dont many domestic batsmen has better SR than him in T20s.  Even if you exclude IPL record, he will still have an SR of close to 145 in T20 cricket and also has 52 wickets.

[Global.Baba]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

you dont know anything if you think Bumrah and Hardik didnt play U19 cricket.  Both played U19 cricket for their respective states.  Bumrah made it to Gujarat side at the age of 19 and played Syed Mushtaq Ali trophy that Gujarat won in 2012 if I remember correctly.  He was 19 then, graduating to state team from Gujarat U19.  Now, not every U19 player can play India U19 because of set age qualification date for U19 WC.  Now we are seeing more U19 tours and tournaments, so, more players are making it to India U19 and also matches are televised as well which was not the case back then. Bumrah could have played U19 WC 2012 played in Aus but he probably had surpassed the age qualification date.  Same for Hardik.  Both are of same age group and Hardik played U19 for Baroda.  At U19, he used to be a leg spinner but then started bowling pace at the requirement of the team.

I was aware of Pandya being a leg spinner in junior cricket. Heowever what I meant was  someone like Kohli,Pant,Jadeja or Shaw or even Khaleel who is relatively fast tracked based on their performances at junior level and in case of the other names their first 1-2 domestic seasons as well 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Global.Baba

[rkt.india]

Here is how Krunal Pandya came through.  you can see the bold part.

 

Krunal Pandya      

India

Full name Krunal Himanshu Pandya

Born March 24, 1991, Ahmedabad, Gujarat

Current age 27 years 227 days

Major teams India, Baroda Cricket Association XI,Baroda Under-15s, Baroda Under-17s, Baroda Under-19s,India A, Mumbai Indians

[velu]

@Global.Baba

 

 

reason for the efficiency  

 

 

[Global.Baba]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Here is how Krunal Pandya came through.  you can see the bold part.

 

Krunal Pandya      

India

Full name Krunal Himanshu Pandya

Born March 24, 1991, Ahmedabad, Gujarat

Current age 27 years 227 days

Major teams India, Baroda Cricket Association XI,Baroda Under-15s, Baroda Under-17s, Baroda Under-19s,India A, Mumbai Indians

Did he have a stellar domestic season this year?

 

H.Pandya had a couple of good games on A tours but still was fast tracked and so was Bumrah because they stood out in IPL. By the way that is fine. Not sure why we are side tracked but all I said was I usually prefer a player like Kohli,Shaw it even Rohit and Jadeja who come through excelling every step off the way. Doesn’t mean players should not be picked on raw potential. 

 

Anyway K.Pandya  playing T20 is fine because IPL should be a benchmark than other domestic T20 tournaments.   

Edited November 6, 2018 by Global.Baba

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

I was aware of Pandya being a leg spinner in junior cricket. Heowever what I meant was  someone like Kohli,Pant,Jadeja or Shaw or even Khaleel who is relatively fast tracked based on their performances at junior level and in case of the other names their first domestic seasons as well 

 

 

Bumrah got picked by IPL team based on his SMA trophy exploits for Gujarat in 2012.  People say he learnt yorkers from Malinga in MI.  They are chutiyas.  Bumrah was bowling yorkers and winning Gujarat games qt 19 in 2012.  Only then he impressed John Wright and got picked.  Pandya came into limelight in 2012-14 SMA trophy for Bardoa when he scored 57 ball 82 against Mahrashtra taking Baroda to 144 which won them the game. He got picked by John Wright who was watching the game as an MI scout. Then what fast tracked him to Indian team is him becoming the top run getter in SMA trophy 2015-16 and not just IPL exploits though IPL is certainly a better metric than SMA trophy for selection for Indian team.

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Did he have a stellar domestic season this year?

 

H.Pandya had a couple of good games on A tours but still was fast tracked and so was Bumrah because they stood out in IPL. By the way that is fine. Not sure why we are side tracked but all I said was I usually prefer a player like Kohli,Shaw it even Rohit and Jadeja who come through excelling every step off the way. Doesn’t mean players should not be picked on raw potential. 

 

Anyway K.Pandya  playing T20 is fine because IPL should be a benchmark than other domestic T20 tournaments.   

how is Bumrah fast tracked.  He played multiple first class seasons, took close to 100 wickets at an average of 25 wit 5-6 fifers.  Bumrah was a proper FC cricketer before he got picked for Indian team.  He had at least played 3 seasons of FC cricket.

[rkt.india]

Also not every cricketer is picked based on stellar domestic records or seasons.  Biggest example two players from Australia Chadd Sayers and Josh Hazlewood. Josh had an FC average of 30 with just one fifer when he debuted for Australia that too after 30 FC games.  even now he has just 7 fifers after 73 FC games averaging 25.  He improved his FC record after his test debut. Bumrah has 8 fifers after 32 FC games.  On the other than, Chadd Sayers has 14 fifers after 64 FC  games and averages 24 and barely gets games for Aus.  So, it is clear Josh was picked based on potential and not just pure numbers.